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User Panel
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 12:03:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OlympicArmsFan]
I have always used iron sights and red dots, but recently, I have gotten into LPVO’s. I have a Primary Arms Special Purchase LPVO with the Aura reticle that I love. It’s on a rifle that isn’t my go to rifle. This optic is based on a GLx body with philippine glass. It feels like it would take a beating, but I’m not sure how much of a one.
So, let’s talk about LPVO’s and if they are combat ready or not. What’s your take? Yes or No? We know red dots and the brands that can survive harsh environments and really rough treatment. We also know that they can still fail. Can an LPVO take the same beating and keeping on ticking? Or is a red dot still king and will always be king of the battle field? And while we are on the subject of LPVO’s, let’s not just talk about etched reticles. Let’s talk about fiber wire reticle too. Those, I have no faith in surviving a really hard drop or just being treated roughly over time. I feel like this will be a good conversation and I look forward to hearing about your experience and if you have had one fail. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 12:10:17 PM EDT
[#1]
LPVOs have been used in combat by Americans for like a decade now (@Stukas87 can give a better answer as he carried one). They are seen frequently in Ukraine footage. They are the future and here to stay.
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Posted: 8/29/2024 12:40:34 PM EDT
[#2]
If you drop an LPVO on concrete and it lands on its ocular, it will bend so the lenses won't align anymore.
Having said that.. I see that some YouTubers specialize in this type of test to determine 'combat readiness'. If that's the gauge, why not drop test everything you take into combat like your NVGs and laser? |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 12:41:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 556Cliff]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bluedog82: LPVOs have been used in combat by Americans for like a decade now (@Stukas87 can give a better answer as he carried one). They are seen frequently in Ukraine footage. They are the future and here to stay. I agree with that, they have caught on to the point where they are beyond a fad and aren't going away, though at the same time I have not been convinced enough to buy into an LPVO myself. For me, ACOGs are better. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:00:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Plenty in combat roles currently, not a new trend.
Obviously not all scopes are created equal. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:05:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Nope. They have a mere fraction of the durability that a good red dot or prism optic has. Also a good battery life for an LPVO is what? 150 hours? If I knew for a fact I could replace the optic easily with a good supply chain, then I wouldn't be as averse to them, but when the chips are down I'd 100% take reduced capability for something that "just works".
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:08:54 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Nope. They have a mere fraction of the durability that a good red dot or prism optic has. Also a good battery life for an LPVO is what? 150 hours? If I knew for a fact I could replace the optic easily with a good supply chain, then I wouldn't be as averse to them, but when the chips are down I'd 100% take reduced capability for something that "just works". LPVOs don't require illumination so the battery point is not valid. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:13:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KYSPIKED: LPVOs don't require illumination so the battery point is not valid. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KYSPIKED: Originally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Nope. They have a mere fraction of the durability that a good red dot or prism optic has. Also a good battery life for an LPVO is what? 150 hours? If I knew for a fact I could replace the optic easily with a good supply chain, then I wouldn't be as averse to them, but when the chips are down I'd 100% take reduced capability for something that "just works". LPVOs don't require illumination so the battery point is not valid. Cope. If illumination doesn't matter then why do all new LPVOs come with it? Do you plan on only shooting in ideal sunlight conditions? And you think that is a "duty rated" optic? Get real. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:22:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Cope. If illumination doesn't matter then why do all new LPVOs come with it? Do you plan on only shooting in ideal sunlight conditions? And you think that is a "duty rated" optic? Get real. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Originally Posted By KYSPIKED: Originally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Nope. They have a mere fraction of the durability that a good red dot or prism optic has. Also a good battery life for an LPVO is what? 150 hours? If I knew for a fact I could replace the optic easily with a good supply chain, then I wouldn't be as averse to them, but when the chips are down I'd 100% take reduced capability for something that "just works". LPVOs don't require illumination so the battery point is not valid. Cope. If illumination doesn't matter then why do all new LPVOs come with it? Do you plan on only shooting in ideal sunlight conditions? And you think that is a "duty rated" optic? Get real. Not sure what you are referring to - many run their LPVO without illumination - do you have one? Also, where did I say it was duty ready? I only refereneced your battery comment...so get real. |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:23:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Versace is right. They are too fragile. Just because they are being used, doesn't make them the best choice.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:36:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Sig SAUER
Atacr Vcog All used by the military. I’d take any of them over an eotech. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:38:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Nope. They have a mere fraction of the durability that a good red dot or prism optic has. Also a good battery life for an LPVO is what? 150 hours? If I knew for a fact I could replace the optic easily with a good supply chain, then I wouldn't be as averse to them, but when the chips are down I'd 100% take reduced capability for something that "just works". Have you looked at the battery life for a PVS-14 or a DBAL/MAWL? |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:50:47 PM EDT
[#12]
In this context, why is an LPVO any different than any other scope?
Rifles like the Mk12 have been in use with standard “tube” optics for a lot longer. Precision rifles for even longer than that. Most services are eventually transitioning to them. As already stated though, the specific scope does matter. I wouldn’t choose something from PA in that role. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:52:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Some are, most aren’t.
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:54:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Nope. They have a mere fraction of the durability that a good red dot or prism optic has. Also a good battery life for an LPVO is what? 150 hours? If I knew for a fact I could replace the optic easily with a good supply chain, then I wouldn't be as averse to them, but when the chips are down I'd 100% take reduced capability for something that "just works". That’s why they’re not being used in combat roles and haven’t been for the past decade or so.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:54:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Cope. If illumination doesn't matter then why do all new LPVOs come with it? Do you plan on only shooting in ideal sunlight conditions? And you think that is a "duty rated" optic? Get real. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Originally Posted By KYSPIKED: Originally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Nope. They have a mere fraction of the durability that a good red dot or prism optic has. Also a good battery life for an LPVO is what? 150 hours? If I knew for a fact I could replace the optic easily with a good supply chain, then I wouldn't be as averse to them, but when the chips are down I'd 100% take reduced capability for something that "just works". LPVOs don't require illumination so the battery point is not valid. Cope. If illumination doesn't matter then why do all new LPVOs come with it? Do you plan on only shooting in ideal sunlight conditions? And you think that is a "duty rated" optic? Get real. Meh, if you’re that worried, get a piggybacked dot. At the end of the day, illumination is only going to be needed in dark/mixed lighting conditions provided the scope has a well designed reticle. Life is a game of tradeoffs. Many people who know what they’re doing have decided the tradeoffs with LPVO are acceptable compared to not using one. If you feel differently, rock on. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:55:23 PM EDT
[#16]
I've personally witnessed a s-vps dropping about 15 feet out of a rotary bird, getting dented up, holding zero, and finished an entire rotation without replacement.
Looking at my team guys and what they are running is pretty interesting. The younger guys prefer eotechs-they find them easier to get behind. The older, more experienced dudes with better manual of arms all gravitate towards the lpvo side of the house. Conversations like this are dumb. "Are lpvo's combat ready?" But nods and LAMS break at the highest rates on the service. Lol |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:55:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HawkinsID: Versace is right. They are too fragile. Just because they are being used, doesn't make them the best choice. I beat the shit out of Steiner LPVOs in Iraq a decade and a half ago, but ok. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 1:59:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: Meh, if you’re that worried, get a piggybacked dot. At the end of the day, illumination is only going to be needed in dark/mixed lighting conditions provided the scope has a well designed reticle. Life is a game of tradeoffs. Many people who know what they’re doing have decided the tradeoffs with LPVO are acceptable compared to not using one. If you feel differently, rock on. This guy gets it. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 2:01:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HawkinsID: Versace is right. They are too fragile. Just because they are being used, doesn't make them the best choice. I’ve seen iron sights bent and not be close to zero or removed (pic mounted), I’ve seen eotechs fail when looked at wrong while mine has taken a beating, I’ve seen aimpoints fail under moderate abuse. Sometimes shit happens. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 2:05:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Mine lasted a hell of a lot longer than the issued Aimpoint did.
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Posted: 8/29/2024 2:07:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hoody2shoez]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By John-in-austin: Mine lasted a hell of a lot longer than the issued Aimpoint did. I've been through 3 comp m5's in the last 3 years |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 3:37:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: I beat the shit out of Steiner LPVOs in Iraq a decade and a half ago, but ok. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: I beat the shit out of Steiner LPVOs in Iraq a decade and a half ago, but ok. Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: That’s why they’re not being used in combat roles and haven’t been for the past decade or so. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/241349/IMG_8335_jpeg-3307887.JPG I'm not saying they can't be used in modern warfare. I'm just saying modern red dots and prism optics have set the standard for "duty use" regarding durability. LPVOs will fail at much higher rates than an Aimpoint or ACOG in a military setting and that's just a mechanical fact. I'm not expressing my opinion on the matter. My opinion is that I prefer Aimpoints or ACOGs over LPVOs because I just want simple, reliable optics and am ok sacrificing all of the benefits that LPVOs have. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 4:26:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Cope. If illumination doesn't matter then why do all new LPVOs come with it? Do you plan on only shooting in ideal sunlight conditions? And you think that is a "duty rated" optic? Get real. Such a clown. We have been using them since 2005 or so in combat.. the lpvo is the current issue for both socom as well as reg army now. Hell we have been using scopes in one form or another since ww1 in combat. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 5:25:12 PM EDT
[#24]
If the VCOG, 6T, and ATACR are already in high use I would say absolutely.
What was said above about younger guys preferring eotechs makes sense to me. My preference is acog/rds, red dot + magnifier, and then lpvo. I’m no longer young but got into this later in life, and don’t have as much time to get proficient with an LPVO. Moving my head up or down to change zoom just works a lot better for me, then taking a hand off and flipping the magnifier or mag lever |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 6:04:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BULLDAWG_556]
[#25]
As civilians your main priority is PID you can't do that with a red dot alone.
Point number 2, ain't none of us fast roping, or jumping outta a bird anymore, LPVO will be more than sufficient, unless it is a dedicated NODS gun. If you want a 1-6 or whatever then buy a 1st rate option. Razor is king for most. The eye relief and box has not been matched. Yes it's heavy, but that is a fair trade-off. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 6:05:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: I'm not saying they can't be used in modern warfare. I'm just saying modern red dots and prism optics have set the standard for "duty use" regarding durability. LPVOs will fail at much higher rates than an Aimpoint or ACOG in a military setting and that's just a mechanical fact. I'm not expressing my opinion on the matter. My opinion is that I prefer Aimpoints or ACOGs over LPVOs because I just want simple, reliable optics and am ok sacrificing all of the benefits that LPVOs have. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: I beat the shit out of Steiner LPVOs in Iraq a decade and a half ago, but ok. Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: That’s why they’re not being used in combat roles and haven’t been for the past decade or so. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/241349/IMG_8335_jpeg-3307887.JPG I'm not saying they can't be used in modern warfare. I'm just saying modern red dots and prism optics have set the standard for "duty use" regarding durability. LPVOs will fail at much higher rates than an Aimpoint or ACOG in a military setting and that's just a mechanical fact. I'm not expressing my opinion on the matter. My opinion is that I prefer Aimpoints or ACOGs over LPVOs because I just want simple, reliable optics and am ok sacrificing all of the benefits that LPVOs have. Since you're stating a mechanical fact and not your opinion on the matter, can you provide us some data points on failure rates of LPVOs vs Aimpoints or ACOGs in military settings? You know, this being a tech forum and all. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 6:14:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: I'm not saying they can't be used in modern warfare. I'm just saying modern red dots and prism optics have set the standard for "duty use" regarding durability. LPVOs will fail at much higher rates than an Aimpoint or ACOG in a military setting and that's just a mechanical fact. I'm not expressing my opinion on the matter. My opinion is that I prefer Aimpoints or ACOGs over LPVOs because I just want simple, reliable optics and am ok sacrificing all of the benefits that LPVOs have. I think what you're missing is that they were the standard. LPVOs have become the new standard. I've got my reservations about LPVOs but they've been adopted by every major branch of service at this point, which testifies to the fact that they're durable enough. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 8:03:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tarheel7734: Such a clown. We have been using them since 2005 or so in combat.. the lpvo is the current issue for both socom as well as reg army now. Hell we have been using scopes in one form or another since ww1 in combat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tarheel7734: Originally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Cope. If illumination doesn't matter then why do all new LPVOs come with it? Do you plan on only shooting in ideal sunlight conditions? And you think that is a "duty rated" optic? Get real. Such a clown. We have been using them since 2005 or so in combat.. the lpvo is the current issue for both socom as well as reg army now. Hell we have been using scopes in one form or another since ww1 in combat. You replied to my remark about illumination so tell me your reasoning regarding illumination and battery life. Eotech has between 1,000 to 2,500 hours of battery life, Aimpoint 30,000 to 80,000 , and battery-powered ACOGs have 12,000. Why do you think 150 hours of battery life is acceptable? Etched reticle isn't a valid excuse either because the ACOG has an etched reticle and over 10,000 hours of battery. And yes, the military is fielding them much more. Does not change the fact that they have less durability than current offerings and comically low battery life. Originally Posted By LV1976: Since you're stating a mechanical fact and not your opinion on the matter, can you provide us some data points on failure rates of LPVOs vs Aimpoints or ACOGs in military settings? You know, this being a tech forum and all. Where am I supposed to get large volumes of data on LPVOs in military service when they've only been adopted for a couple years at most in the USA? I could drudge up data on non-LPVO optics in use by the military for the past 20 years, but it would be facetious to compare that to whatever small data I can find regarding LPVOs. If you think an LPVO is just as durable as an ACOG or Aimpoint I don't know what to tell you. They're just not and that does not make them bad optics. I'm just saying the average grunt is much more likely to break or damage their LPVO in the field compared to other optics. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 8:11:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Well I’ve never been in the .mil, and they’re not signing up 55 year olds for combat these days, but I would like to get into the LPVO game for the gun in the pic below. I’ve got another 14.5” that has a TA31 with a piggybacked RMR, but I’d like to try a LPVO.
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Posted: 8/29/2024 8:15:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tarheel7734]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: You replied to my remark about illumination so tell me your reasoning regarding illumination and battery life. Eotech has between 1,000 to 2,500 hours of battery life, Aimpoint 30,000 to 80,000 , and battery-powered ACOGs have 12,000. Why do you think 150 hours of battery life is acceptable? Etched reticle isn't a valid excuse either because the ACOG has an etched reticle and over 10,000 hours of battery. And yes, the military is fielding them much more. Does not change the fact that they have less durability than current offerings and comically low battery life. Where am I supposed to get large volumes of data on LPVOs in military service when they've only been adopted for a couple years at most in the USA? I could drudge up data on non-LPVO optics in use by the military for the past 20 years, but it would be facetious to compare that to whatever small data I can find regarding LPVOs. If you think an LPVO is just as durable as an ACOG or Aimpoint I don't know what to tell you. They're just not and that does not make them bad optics. I'm just saying the average grunt is much more likely to break or damage their LPVO in the field compared to other optics. Lmao. You clearly didn't serve or aren't serving. Advertised battery life is not real battery life in the field.. hell nods have shit battery as do a lot of other equiptment. One of the main points about lpvo is illumination isn't really needed except under certain circumstances. A quality lpvo is no less durable than eotech, aimpoint or even an acog. Hell nightforce beats the crap out of every optic before it finishes qc to make sure durability is there. There have been cases where nightforces have been shot just like other optics and continue to function.. We had aimpoints, eotechs, and even acogs fail in the field.or combat.. You truly are clueless of combat and equiptment usage and need to stop reading about stuff thinking you are smarter and know better than all the combat vets that are saying you are wrong.. You truly seem like a young kid with 0 experience. 10+ years in not a couple of years.. and scopes being used for over 100 years in combat is not just a few years. Get over yourself.. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 8:33:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: spydercomonkey]
[#31]
One foreign volunteer in Ukraine specifically cited LPVO's breaking / losing zero, and that ACOG / RDS etc were preferred.
Reason being in an artillery war they are just constantly diving for cover and whacking the rifles into the earth. Likely a lot more rifle hitting the ground action then we saw in GWOT. I suspect part of the loss of zero is them shifting/turning in their scope rings; an LPVO optic with an integral machined base like the VCOG, or new NGSW-FC, is likely less vulnerable to this. .... The other takeaway though is how a lot of rifle fighting in Ukraine is at handgun & handgrenade range, and that bursts of FA is frequently the preferred mode of fire. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 8:39:59 PM EDT
[#32]
I’d be more worried about it slipping in the mount from a fall, but even that is rare. It’s of course not going to be as durable as an ACOG or Aimpoint but how much abuse is realistic?
There is a huge lack of feedback compared to ACOG’s and Aimpoints because we aren’t in war time, and we have a military full of people who signed up under Biden that prefer anal lubricants to ones made for guns. Whatever our next conflict is I think the XM7/LPVO combo is going to be a massive failure. I think the LPVO will be unfairly judged as a 15 pound general issue rifle is realized to be a terrible idea. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 8:41:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tarheel7734]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: One foreign volunteer in Ukraine specifically cited LPVO's breaking / losing zero, and that ACOG / RDS etc were preferred. Reason being in an artillery war they are just constantly diving for cover and whacking the rifles into the earth. Likely a lot more rifle hitting the ground action then we saw in GWOT. I suspect part of the loss of zero is them shifting/turning in their scope rings; an LPVO optic with an integral machined base like the VCOG, or new NGSW-FC, is likely less vulnerable to this. .... The other takeaway though is how a lot of rifle fighting in Ukraine is at handgun & handgrenade range, and that bursts of FA is frequently the preferred mode of fire. The problem with the war in Ukrain is nothing is standardized as far as equiptment goes. You get cheap pos optics as well as high dollar optics. They use and get whatever. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 8:56:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: One foreign volunteer in Ukraine specifically cited LPVO's breaking / losing zero, and that ACOG / RDS etc were preferred. Reason being in an artillery war they are just constantly diving for cover and whacking the rifles into the earth. Likely a lot more rifle hitting the ground action then we saw in GWOT. I suspect part of the loss of zero is them shifting/turning in their scope rings; an LPVO optic with an integral machined base like the VCOG, or new NGSW-FC, is likely less vulnerable to this. .... The other takeaway though is how a lot of rifle fighting in Ukraine is at handgun & handgrenade range, and that bursts of FA is frequently the preferred mode of fire. When you buy an LPVO, do you step up to the counter at your local gun store and say, “Hello. I’d like to purchase one LPVO please.” So if someone says, “LPVO’s are breaking!” I 100% believe it. The question is, are we talking about Strike Eagles, insert your favorite SwampFox turd (but it’s SOCOM APPROVED!), something off off E-Bay with four color reticles? Or is it a K16i, NX8, VCOG, Razor, etc. I’m pretty certain I know the answer. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 9:00:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Wow! This is what I am talking about. I wanted this type of open discussion and hoped to get a lot of feedback. I’m glad to see those that have served or are still servicing posting. Keep the feedback coming.
Now, let’s throw a wrench into the mix. Prism optics. Prism optics, are they going to rise up and take over? Acog and Elcan fit into this part, right? I have seen prism optics from Primary Arms beat to death and keep ticking. We get 1x all the way up to a 5x. Could this be something we see more wide spread in the future of combat? |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 9:05:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tarheel7734: The problem with the war in Ukrain is nothing is standardized as far as equiptment goes. Yiu get cheap pos optics as well as high dollar optics. They use and get whatever. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tarheel7734: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: One foreign volunteer in Ukraine specifically cited LPVO's breaking / losing zero, and that ACOG / RDS etc were preferred. Reason being in an artillery war they are just constantly diving for cover and whacking the rifles into the earth. Likely a lot more rifle hitting the ground action then we saw in GWOT. I suspect part of the loss of zero is them shifting/turning in their scope rings; an LPVO optic with an integral machined base like the VCOG, or new NGSW-FC, is likely less vulnerable to this. .... The other takeaway though is how a lot of rifle fighting in Ukraine is at handgun & handgrenade range, and that bursts of FA is frequently the preferred mode of fire. The problem with the war in Ukrain is nothing is standardized as far as equiptment goes. Yiu get cheap pos optics as well as high dollar optics. They use and get whatever. Yes, its an epic hodge podge of pretty much every small arm and accessory ever made, making it hard to go beyond anecdotal data. I do think though it's worth considering that different forms of combat are going to pose different stresses on optics, as well as impact what sort of optics make sense. For Counter Insurgency / LIC, often in areas with great distances and a need to sort out enemy combatants from random farmers holding shovels, the LPVO is clearly the way to go, and has proven durable enough. In a mechanized / trench industrial High Intensity War, where the primary threat is artillery and drones, and most rifle fighting occurs at handgrenade range / selector is set to full auto.... The real (as yet unanswered) question is what optic would be preferable for China. Where (if anywhere) would land war occur, and what would that look like. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 9:12:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tarheel7734: Lmao. You clearly didn't serve or aren't serving. Advertised battery life is not real battery life in the field.. hell nods have shit battery as do a lot of other equiptment. One of the main points about lpvo is illumination isn't really needed except under certain circumstances. A quality lpvo is no less durable than eotech, aimpoint or even an acog. Hell nightforce beats the crap out of every optic before it finishes qc to make sure durability is there. There have been cases where nightforces have been shot just like other optics and continue to function.. We had aimpoints, eotechs, and even aimpoints fail in the field.or combat.. You truly are clueless of combat and equiptment usage and need to stop reading about stuff thinking you are smarter and know better than all the combat vets that are saying you are wrong.. You truly seem like a young kid with 0 experience. 10+ years in not a couple of years.. and scopes being used for over 100 years in combat is not just a few years. Get over yourself.. Much truth. Waiting for him to reply to you IN ALL CAPS so you know how serious he is and how much experience he has. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 9:24:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Yes, its an epic hodge podge of pretty much every small arm and accessory ever made, making it hard to go beyond anecdotal data. I do think though it's worth considering that different forms of combat are going to pose different stresses on optics, as well as impact what sort of optics make sense. For Counter Insurgency / LIC, often in areas with great distances and a need to sort out enemy combatants from random farmers holding shovels, the LPVO is clearly the way to go, and has proven durable enough. In a mechanized / trench industrial High Intensity War, where the primary threat is artillery and drones, and most rifle fighting occurs at handgrenade range / selector is set to full auto.... The real (as yet unanswered) question is what optic would be preferable for China. Where (if anywhere) would land war occur, and what would that look like. Why would we be ground fighting on mainland China? Why would only 1 optic be chosen for any potential Chinese conflict? Military wise chosen units, tactics, fielded equipment, courses of action and general planning is based off of various forms and levels of METT-T (C) as clearly a one size fits all approach does not always work. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 10:21:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Duck_Hunt]
[#39]
Acog or mpvo for me.if I was forced to use a lpvo it would be a NF or Trij.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 10:47:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Conversations like this are dumb. "Are lpvo's combat ready?" But nods and LAMS break at the highest rates on the service. Lol All of this ^^^ |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 10:55:12 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: You replied to my remark about illumination so tell me your reasoning regarding illumination and battery life. Eotech has between 1,000 to 2,500 hours of battery life, Aimpoint 30,000 to 80,000 , and battery-powered ACOGs have 12,000. Why do you think 150 hours of battery life is acceptable? Etched reticle isn't a valid excuse either because the ACOG has an etched reticle and over 10,000 hours of battery. And yes, the military is fielding them much more. Does not change the fact that they have less durability than current offerings and comically low battery life. Where am I supposed to get large volumes of data on LPVOs in military service when they've only been adopted for a couple years at most in the USA? I could drudge up data on non-LPVO optics in use by the military for the past 20 years, but it would be facetious to compare that to whatever small data I can find regarding LPVOs. If you think an LPVO is just as durable as an ACOG or Aimpoint I don't know what to tell you. They're just not and that does not make them bad optics. I'm just saying the average grunt is much more likely to break or damage their LPVO in the field compared to other optics. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Originally Posted By tarheel7734: Originally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Cope. If illumination doesn't matter then why do all new LPVOs come with it? Do you plan on only shooting in ideal sunlight conditions? And you think that is a "duty rated" optic? Get real. Such a clown. We have been using them since 2005 or so in combat.. the lpvo is the current issue for both socom as well as reg army now. Hell we have been using scopes in one form or another since ww1 in combat. You replied to my remark about illumination so tell me your reasoning regarding illumination and battery life. Eotech has between 1,000 to 2,500 hours of battery life, Aimpoint 30,000 to 80,000 , and battery-powered ACOGs have 12,000. Why do you think 150 hours of battery life is acceptable? Etched reticle isn't a valid excuse either because the ACOG has an etched reticle and over 10,000 hours of battery. And yes, the military is fielding them much more. Does not change the fact that they have less durability than current offerings and comically low battery life. Originally Posted By LV1976: Since you're stating a mechanical fact and not your opinion on the matter, can you provide us some data points on failure rates of LPVOs vs Aimpoints or ACOGs in military settings? You know, this being a tech forum and all. Where am I supposed to get large volumes of data on LPVOs in military service when they've only been adopted for a couple years at most in the USA? I could drudge up data on non-LPVO optics in use by the military for the past 20 years, but it would be facetious to compare that to whatever small data I can find regarding LPVOs. If you think an LPVO is just as durable as an ACOG or Aimpoint I don't know what to tell you. They're just not and that does not make them bad optics. I'm just saying the average grunt is much more likely to break or damage their LPVO in the field compared to other optics. So you're not stating fact, just your opinion or impression of what may or may not be true of LPVOs. I was pretty sure everyone here knew you were just making that up, thanks for confiming it. Like I said, this is a tech forum, not GD where you just pull stuff out of your ass. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 11:05:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote History[b] where the primary threat is artillery and drones, and most rifle fighting occurs at handgrenade range / selector is set to full auto.... No. Just no. Go back to the Playstation. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 11:38:04 PM EDT
[#43]
LPVOs are the future of warfare optics.
Technology advances to replace inferior capabilities. Same reason the DI AR is getting replaced. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 11:45:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Nope. They have a mere fraction of the durability that a good red dot or prism optic has. Also a good battery life for an LPVO is what? 150 hours? If I knew for a fact I could replace the optic easily with a good supply chain, then I wouldn't be as averse to them, but when the chips are down I'd 100% take reduced capability for something that "just works". Battery life? I only turn mine on in the dark. Yeah, they're here to stay, and are damn useful in many applications. |
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Posted: 8/30/2024 12:13:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OlympicArmsFan: Wow! This is what I am talking about. I wanted this type of open discussion and hoped to get a lot of feedback. I’m glad to see those that have served or are still servicing posting. Keep the feedback coming. Now, let’s throw a wrench into the mix. Prism optics. Prism optics, are they going to rise up and take over? Acog and Elcan fit into this part, right? I have seen prism optics from Primary Arms beat to death and keep ticking. We get 1x all the way up to a 5x. Could this be something we see more wide spread in the future of combat? An ACOG is a prism optic. The SpecterDR is essentially a variable prism optic. They’re well past their prime. Put simply, in a professional setting, their days are likely numbered. Civilian market is obviously a different story. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2024 12:21:58 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Cope. If illumination doesn't matter then why do all new LPVOs come with it? Do you plan on only shooting in ideal sunlight conditions? And you think that is a "duty rated" optic? Get real. Lots of tier-1 guys would disagree with you. The atacr 1-8, short dots, cqbss, all have been or are currently in extensive use. The need for illumination is contingent upon the reticle design. The fc-dmx reticle is excellent and I rarely ever need illumination. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2024 8:50:01 AM EDT
[#47]
After seeing Aaron Cowan throw his Accupower equipped AR repeated off a second story balcony and it retain zero, I started buying them.
Red dot durable? Probably not. Still far more durable than I'll probably ever need. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2024 10:17:39 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scottrh2: Much truth. Waiting for him to reply to you IN ALL CAPS so you know how serious he is and how much experience he has. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scottrh2: Originally Posted By tarheel7734: Lmao. You clearly didn't serve or aren't serving. Advertised battery life is not real battery life in the field.. hell nods have shit battery as do a lot of other equiptment. One of the main points about lpvo is illumination isn't really needed except under certain circumstances. A quality lpvo is no less durable than eotech, aimpoint or even an acog. Hell nightforce beats the crap out of every optic before it finishes qc to make sure durability is there. There have been cases where nightforces have been shot just like other optics and continue to function.. We had aimpoints, eotechs, and even aimpoints fail in the field.or combat.. You truly are clueless of combat and equiptment usage and need to stop reading about stuff thinking you are smarter and know better than all the combat vets that are saying you are wrong.. You truly seem like a young kid with 0 experience. 10+ years in not a couple of years.. and scopes being used for over 100 years in combat is not just a few years. Get over yourself.. Much truth. Waiting for him to reply to you IN ALL CAPS so you know how serious he is and how much experience he has. I had no idea advertised battery life isn't what you get in the field. So that 150 hours on the LPVO is what? 90 hours? Illumination on a primary optic is important. You can absolutely work without it in ok to good conditions. I'm not discounting your experience in combat. Nightforce does put out tough optics. There is literally no way an LPVO is as durable as an Aimpoint or ACOG and that's a fact. LPVOs have their benefits over red dots and prisms. I 100% agree. I just think the average grunt that throws throws their rifle in the trunk or accidentally drops it should probably use something that can handle that better. Or to put it in a simpler way to grasp. I have bought used ACOGs and Aimpoints before that have heavy signs of use and didn't care. I knew they would almost certainly work fine. I wouldn't even consider purchasing a used LPVO with heavy signs of wear. Would you? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2024 10:20:46 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LV1976: So you're not stating fact, just your opinion or impression of what may or may not be true of LPVOs. I was pretty sure everyone here knew you were just making that up, thanks for confiming it. Like I said, this is a tech forum, not GD where you just pull stuff out of your ass. Guarantee if your rifle with your expensive LPVO slipped and fell optic first on concrete you'd be sweating bullets (no pun intended). Just be honest. If you had a heavy impact on an LPVO would you feel just as secure as if it had happened on a TA31 or Comp M4s? |
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Posted: 8/30/2024 10:47:37 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Guarantee if your rifle with your expensive LPVO slipped and fell optic first on concrete you'd be sweating bullets (no pun intended). Just be honest. If you had a heavy impact on an LPVO would you feel just as secure as if it had happened on a TA31 or Comp M4s? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: Originally Posted By LV1976: So you're not stating fact, just your opinion or impression of what may or may not be true of LPVOs. I was pretty sure everyone here knew you were just making that up, thanks for confiming it. Like I said, this is a tech forum, not GD where you just pull stuff out of your ass. Guarantee if your rifle with your expensive LPVO slipped and fell optic first on concrete you'd be sweating bullets (no pun intended). Just be honest. If you had a heavy impact on an LPVO would you feel just as secure as if it had happened on a TA31 or Comp M4s? I see that you're still relying on conjecture and feelings to try to support your claims. And yes, I have dropped my not so expensive LPVO on concrete. I have also dropped my non-military grade Aimpoint CompC3. Both held zero. So I have actual experience with this. Do you want to keep telling everyone here what you think you know? Because every post you have made sounds like you're some kid with an airsoft setup that just wandered into the room. |
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