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UT, USA
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Posted: 11/8/2015 12:31:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ECPrevatte:
You add the bevel spacer, and the minimum amount of shims (smallest) in order to index the MD correctly. Thank you, that helps. I've seen some install the FH without the bevel spacer and only the shims. Is this incorrect? |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 12:40:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JP6:
Thank you, that helps. I've seen some install the FH without the bevel spacer and only the shims. Is this incorrect? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JP6:
Originally Posted By ECPrevatte:
You add the bevel spacer, and the minimum amount of shims (smallest) in order to index the MD correctly. Thank you, that helps. I've seen some install the FH without the bevel spacer and only the shims. Is this incorrect? That is incorrect. I guess if you're not running a suppressor, but the spacer is intended to make sure the MD and barrel are concentric so you don't get a baffle strike. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 11/8/2015 12:42:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ECPrevatte:
That is incorrect. I guess if you're not running a suppressor, but the spacer is intended to make sure the MD and barrel are concentric so you don't get a baffle strike. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ECPrevatte:
Originally Posted By JP6:
Originally Posted By ECPrevatte:
You add the bevel spacer, and the minimum amount of shims (smallest) in order to index the MD correctly. Thank you, that helps. I've seen some install the FH without the bevel spacer and only the shims. Is this incorrect? That is incorrect. I guess if you're not running a suppressor, but the spacer is intended to make sure the MD and barrel are concentric so you don't get a baffle strike. Ah I see. Awesome, thanks again for the help. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 12:50:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ECPrevatte:
Yeah that's shallow. I doubt it's a regular in here though. <a href="https://flic.kr/p/AQ1AdV" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/576/22859437045_3f941ab2ee_h.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/zT73AT" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5803/22238094063_668d85a24e_h.jpg</a> I'm pretty average with tools. The 80% arms jig made it pretty stupid proof. Once you "pilot" hole the lower you go through and little by little take a layer off with a router. Drill press, and router make it the easiest. I can't imagine using a hand drill. Lookin good!! You've got me excited to get mine going. 
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USA
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Posted: 11/8/2015 1:10:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Other than the DIY aspect and the fact that you can make the engraving very much like a real M4A1..what are the other benefits associated with finishing 80% lowers? I have some low-level interest, but I figure I'm missing something regarding them...those in the know please educate me.
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Posted: 11/8/2015 1:12:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TurbineBoiler: http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/TurbineBoiler/Mobile%20Uploads/20151108_110950_zpsgcix8n98.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TurbineBoiler: Originally Posted By Spooled: Originally Posted By TurbineBoiler: Originally Posted By AmericanCheese: Originally Posted By TurbineBoiler: Here's a pic of the cleaning link. It holds the upper in position for cleaning. The mag block secures the lower via mag release. No surprise that they fit perfectly, as they're precisely machined by Stoner25mkiv. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/TurbineBoiler/Mobile%20Uploads/20151107_192328_zpsjecpotxv.jpg Bad lever....for fucks sake!  MURICA!!! |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 1:20:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CloneDiseased:
Other than the DIY aspect and the fact that you can make the engraving very much like a real M4A1..what are the other benefits associated with finishing 80% lowers? I have some low-level interest, but I figure I'm missing something regarding them...those in the know please educate me. Doing an 80% to spec is pro status, and separates posers from cloners. I applaud all the brothers in here getting them done, and I'm eventually going that route for my Mk18 Mod 0 build using an NDS 16-A1 lower. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 2:14:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanCheese:
Doing an 80% to spec is pro status, and separates posers from cloners. I applaud all the brothers in here getting them done, and I'm eventually going that route for my Mk18 Mod 0 build using an NDS 16-A1 lower. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanCheese:
Originally Posted By CloneDiseased:
Other than the DIY aspect and the fact that you can make the engraving very much like a real M4A1..what are the other benefits associated with finishing 80% lowers? I have some low-level interest, but I figure I'm missing something regarding them...those in the know please educate me. Doing an 80% to spec is pro status, and separates posers from cloners. I applaud all the brothers in here getting them done, and I'm eventually going that route for my Mk18 Mod 0 build using an NDS 16-A1 lower. Haha. Cheese... Some of the shit you say mang. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 2:50:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Going through some stuff that is causing me to sell off some stuff
Mk18fsp,wmx200,upper and SU-231a http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_159/1486390_Mk18_FSP_upper_package.html |
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USA
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Posted: 11/8/2015 2:51:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Lol
 mucho respecto to all y'all motherfuckers
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Posted: 11/8/2015 2:56:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanCheese:
Bad lever....for fucks sake! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanCheese:
Originally Posted By TurbineBoiler:
Here's a pic of the cleaning link. It holds the upper in position for cleaning. The mag block secures the lower via mag release. No surprise that they fit perfectly, as they're precisely machined by Stoner25mkiv. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/TurbineBoiler/Mobile%20Uploads/20151107_192328_zpsjecpotxv.jpg Bad lever....for fucks sake! Dude this bad lever sit is getting old. post photos or stop posting. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 3:00:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tango6delta:
Dude this bad lever sit is getting old. post photos or stop posting. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tango6delta:
Originally Posted By AmericanCheese:
Originally Posted By TurbineBoiler:
Here's a pic of the cleaning link. It holds the upper in position for cleaning. The mag block secures the lower via mag release. No surprise that they fit perfectly, as they're precisely machined by Stoner25mkiv. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/TurbineBoiler/Mobile%20Uploads/20151107_192328_zpsjecpotxv.jpg Bad lever....for fucks sake! Dude this bad lever sit is getting old. post photos or stop posting. You know it's an inside joke in here right....well, obviously you don't 
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Posted: 11/8/2015 3:05:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hatexoc:
Going through some stuff that is causing me to sell off some stuff
Mk18fsp,wmx200,upper and SU-231a http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_159/1486390_Mk18_FSP_upper_package.html Sorry to hear that, bro. Best of luck to you. |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 11/8/2015 3:10:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanCheese:
You know it's an inside joke in here right....well, obviously you don't Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanCheese:
Originally Posted By tango6delta:
Originally Posted By AmericanCheese:
Originally Posted By TurbineBoiler:
Here's a pic of the cleaning link. It holds the upper in position for cleaning. The mag block secures the lower via mag release. No surprise that they fit perfectly, as they're precisely machined by Stoner25mkiv. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/TurbineBoiler/Mobile%20Uploads/20151107_192328_zpsjecpotxv.jpg Bad lever....for fucks sake! Dude this bad lever sit is getting old. post photos or stop posting. You know it's an inside joke in here right....well, obviously you don't I think you're the only one who gets any enjoyment from bringing it up but that's just me 
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:02:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanCheese: You know it's an inside joke in here right....well, obviously you don't Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanCheese: Originally Posted By tango6delta: Originally Posted By AmericanCheese: Originally Posted By TurbineBoiler: Here's a pic of the cleaning link. It holds the upper in position for cleaning. The mag block secures the lower via mag release. No surprise that they fit perfectly, as they're precisely machined by Stoner25mkiv. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/TurbineBoiler/Mobile%20Uploads/20151107_192328_zpsjecpotxv.jpg Bad lever....for fucks sake! Dude this bad lever sit is getting old. post photos or stop posting. You know it's an inside joke in here right....well, obviously you don't |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:02:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brodband8]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hatexoc:
Going through some stuff that is causing me to sell off some stuff
Mk18fsp,wmx200,upper and SU-231a http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_159/1486390_Mk18_FSP_upper_package.html is socom can included for 2500? 
I am going through something that is requiring me to sell off some stuff too. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:05:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: is socom can included for 2500? I am going through something that is requiring me to sell off some stuff too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: Originally Posted By hatexoc: Going through some stuff that is causing me to sell off some stuff Mk18fsp,wmx200,upper and SU-231a http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_159/1486390_Mk18_FSP_upper_package.html is socom can included for 2500? I am going through something that is requiring me to sell off some stuff too. Sorry to hear that hatexoc, you'll recover though. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:15:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GripnAK47s]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sbye:
I hope that is the case. Hopefully there isn't anyone in here like that Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sbye:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By GripnAK47s:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By GripnAK47s:
Dont feel too bad guys. Someone here tattled and the guy refunded the money. 
I'll have to remember never to deal with that guy then. Yea, bummer. Id say that is a welch, posted accordingly. Everyone had the same chance I did I was hoping no one actually tattled and he just did some research after it "sold" (I'm sure the guy got a lot of IM's asking if he had more), but I just saw your thread in the EE... I almost can't believe someone in here would do that. I hope that is the case. Hopefully there isn't anyone in here like that Thought you guys would find this info funny. You should check out the EE thread. The whistle blower was outed by the seller as member "Roadblock" 
Good Samaritan
Search continues for a 4 prong 
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:20:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GripnAK47s:
Thought you guys would find this info funny. You should check out the EE thread. The whistle blower was outed by the seller as member "Roadblock"
Good Samaritan
Search continues for a 4 prong oh god, and the plot thickens. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:26:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GripnAK47s:
Thought you guys would find this info funny. You should check out the EE thread. The whistle blower was outed by the seller as member "Roadblock"
Good Samaritan
Search continues for a 4 prong
I can't help but think he did this out of jealousy. Dick move roadblock. Dick move. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:28:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jparish62]
[#21]
Wow!
Funny that NOTHING in the original ad would even remotely make anyone think it was ever a mil part. Why/how would this be brought up now and not with prior listings for the same item?!? |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:32:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Roadblock:
That is most-likely stolen US Govt property, you should send it to me for proper disposal. https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gif Do you mind if I asked "what" you paid for it? Trying to gauge how much anal rape I'm going to suffer. Thanks brother! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Roadblock:
Originally Posted By Carbon244:
Speaking of lmt gen 1 sopmods, look what just showed up. http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/carbon244/Mobile%20Uploads/FB_IMG_1446943364130_zpson7memtx.jpg https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gif Do you mind if I asked "what" you paid for it? Trying to gauge how much anal rape I'm going to suffer. Thanks brother! Quoting for lulz. Low blow man. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:34:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Wow is right....so much transparency in here, nothing goes unnoticed. I can't even troll YouTube without the AZ outdoor people derping all over themselves.
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UT, USA
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:36:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hatexoc:
Going through some stuff that is causing me to sell off some stuff
Mk18fsp,wmx200,upper and SU-231a http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_159/1486390_Mk18_FSP_upper_package.html Sorry to hear that man. Best of luck to you. That's some great stuff you're parting with. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:37:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hatexoc:
Going through some stuff that is causing me to sell off some stuff
Mk18fsp,wmx200,upper and SU-231a http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_159/1486390_Mk18_FSP_upper_package.html I'd take the link down before Roadblock gets in here
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:39:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Any accounts getting nuked over this crap?
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:45:05 PM EDT
[#27]
You know I would help out the person that lost out on the sale, but I would have to sell this 4 prong for what what I paid for it.
Which was more than 300 I do believe so I won't even bother. If I wasn't also in a situation where I needed as much money as possible I would likely let something like that go to help some out for cheaper, but I can't right now... |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:48:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Need to paint the Surefire
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:49:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewQ22:
Need to paint the Surefire <a href="http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/sabroso1/media/7CF35D7D-4191-4D0D-8EDC-1DD3F113AF11_zpsteskilbg.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb358/sabroso1/7CF35D7D-4191-4D0D-8EDC-1DD3F113AF11_zpsteskilbg.jpg</a> It looks good blk, but yeah paint would be killer! |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:52:13 PM EDT
[#30]
I swear pricing on everything is just screwy right now... I had some guy email me offering $699 for a full factory Noveske infantry rifle claiming the $1299 I was asking was ridiculous. I thought the Eotechs were all screwy with pricing but now it looks like the 553 is just as expensive as an EXPS3-0 in some cases.
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:54:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNW:
I swear pricing on everything is just screwy right now... I had some guy email me offering $699 for a full factory Noveske infantry rifle claiming the $1299 I was asking was ridiculous. I thought the Eotechs were all screwy with pricing but now it looks like the 553 is just as expensive as an EXPS3-0 in some cases. What's the current pricing? Last 553 and EXPS 3-0 I bought were $500. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:55:40 PM EDT
[#32]
It just depends...i see way too much used stuff in the EE listed at full retail. Some people are delusional! I can get nib fde su-231 for $550, so prices flux.
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Posted: 11/8/2015 4:59:52 PM EDT
[#33]
I thought the EXPS3-0 was supposed to be more expensive than the 553...
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Posted: 11/8/2015 5:06:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNW:
I thought the EXPS3-0 was supposed to be more expensive than the 553... I think it usually is... |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 5:14:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brodband8]
[#35]
Something I just noticed after ASMIG posted about the 4 prongs being sold to dealers was that his SF logo looked slightly different than mine.
His has a differently shaped "S" than both of mine. Does anyone else notice this and or know why? his: 
mine: 
even the little things around the SF logo are different. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 5:15:57 PM EDT
[#36]
People must just be on crack then. Was hoping to trade and someone asked me to add for the 553.
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USA
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Posted: 11/8/2015 5:20:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: Something I just noticed after ASMIG posted about the 4 prongs being sold to dealers was that his SF logo looked slightly different than mine. His has a differently shaped "S" than both of mine. Does anyone else notice this and or know why? his: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/photo_zpshp2d9rwf.jpg mine: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/108E6623-2E15-42CB-B9B9-DDB21DF3E303_zpsyyqyoaai.jpg http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/A1D9125D-381B-4FF6-963E-7EE8F0B2574E_zps0apgbsnc.jpg even the little things around the SF logo are different. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 5:21:45 PM EDT
[#38]
I bet the surefire thing is a chronological deal. I've seen the lettering in italics and standard
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Posted: 11/8/2015 5:27:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Both my 3Ps look like yours.
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Posted: 11/8/2015 5:51:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: Something I just noticed after ASMIG posted about the 4 prongs being sold to dealers was that his SF logo looked slightly different than mine. His has a differently shaped "S" than both of mine. Does anyone else notice this and or know why? his: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/photo_zpshp2d9rwf.jpg mine: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/108E6623-2E15-42CB-B9B9-DDB21DF3E303_zpsyyqyoaai.jpg http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/A1D9125D-381B-4FF6-963E-7EE8F0B2574E_zps0apgbsnc.jpg even the little things around the SF logo are different. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 5:59:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewQ22:
Mine looks like yours Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewQ22:
Originally Posted By brodband8:
Something I just noticed after ASMIG posted about the 4 prongs being sold to dealers was that his SF logo looked slightly different than mine. His has a differently shaped "S" than both of mine. Does anyone else notice this and or know why? his: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/photo_zpshp2d9rwf.jpg mine: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/108E6623-2E15-42CB-B9B9-DDB21DF3E303_zpsyyqyoaai.jpg http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/A1D9125D-381B-4FF6-963E-7EE8F0B2574E_zps0apgbsnc.jpg even the little things around the SF logo are different. good to know. Unless we all got hosed and all have fake 4p's lol. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 6:06:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8:
good to know. Unless we all got hosed and all have fake 4p's lol. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8:
Originally Posted By drewQ22:
Originally Posted By brodband8:
Something I just noticed after ASMIG posted about the 4 prongs being sold to dealers was that his SF logo looked slightly different than mine. His has a differently shaped "S" than both of mine. Does anyone else notice this and or know why? his: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/photo_zpshp2d9rwf.jpg mine: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/108E6623-2E15-42CB-B9B9-DDB21DF3E303_zpsyyqyoaai.jpg http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/BrOdBaNd_2006/A1D9125D-381B-4FF6-963E-7EE8F0B2574E_zps0apgbsnc.jpg even the little things around the SF logo are different. good to know. Unless we all got hosed and all have fake 4p's lol. Drew's is legit. Ask me how I know.
Meaning yours is too. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 6:13:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Wow, I typed a response going off on the seller and roadblock I.M.'s me jumping my shit and telling me I'm an idiot, as if it was about him. Starting to wonder if he has more than 1 account now.
I can't wrap my mind around this idiocy unless he's associated with the seller. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 6:19:33 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Wow, I typed a response going off on the seller and roadblock I.M.'s me jumping my shit and telling me I'm an idiot, as if it was about him. Starting to wonder if he has more than 1 account now. I can't wrap my mind around this idiocy unless he's associated with the seller. Dafuq? |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 6:20:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Wow, I typed a response going off on the seller and roadblock I.M.'s me jumping my shit and telling me I'm an idiot, as if it was about him. Starting to wonder if he has more than 1 account now. I can't wrap my mind around this idiocy unless he's associated with the seller. Lol, yeah, I saw that. That whole situation is fucked......just grab some popcorn and watch the fireworks
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Posted: 11/8/2015 6:23:11 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jparish62:
Lol, yeah, I saw that. That whole situation is fucked......just grab some popcorn and watch the fireworks Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jparish62:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Wow, I typed a response going off on the seller and roadblock I.M.'s me jumping my shit and telling me I'm an idiot, as if it was about him. Starting to wonder if he has more than 1 account now. I can't wrap my mind around this idiocy unless he's associated with the seller. Lol, yeah, I saw that. That whole situation is fucked......just grab some popcorn and watch the fireworks Looks like he's too scared to read my response. 
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Posted: 11/8/2015 6:25:00 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Looks like he's too scared to read my response. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By jparish62:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Wow, I typed a response going off on the seller and roadblock I.M.'s me jumping my shit and telling me I'm an idiot, as if it was about him. Starting to wonder if he has more than 1 account now. I can't wrap my mind around this idiocy unless he's associated with the seller. Lol, yeah, I saw that. That whole situation is fucked......just grab some popcorn and watch the fireworks Looks like he's too scared to read my response. Wait, so people find enough time in the day to create multiple accounts? I thought I spent way to much time EE'ing it on a daily basis. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 6:31:29 PM EDT
[#48]
I guess bro. All I know is it caught me off guard, that's for sure. I go off on the seller, and get a hate I.M. from Roadblock?
I'm not even going to try to make sense of it other than he must be associated with the seller, or buying it from the seller after the initial deal was flushed down the shitter. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 6:32:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
I guess bro. All I know is it caught me off guard, that's for sure. I go off on the seller, and get a hate I.M. from Roadblock?
I'm not even going to try to make sense of it other than he must be associated with the seller, or buying it from the seller after the initial deal was flushed down the shitter. That would be my guess. He's probably mad you're trying to get the seller to honor the original deal. |
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Posted: 11/8/2015 6:56:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevieJ309:
That would be my guess. He's probably mad you're trying to get the seller to honor the original deal. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
I guess bro. All I know is it caught me off guard, that's for sure. I go off on the seller, and get a hate I.M. from Roadblock?
I'm not even going to try to make sense of it other than he must be associated with the seller, or buying it from the seller after the initial deal was flushed down the shitter. That would be my guess. He's probably mad you're trying to get the seller to honor the original deal. I get that feeling as well. Dude done fucked up. You fuck with the MILSPEC you get the horns.
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