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Interesting. In regular use in Russia these days?
I know these are used in PKMs and SVDs and other combloc weapons successfully but has the rimmed cartridge ever been an issue for reliable use? |
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At the base of the 7H37 (tungsten core), what is the dark matter below the core? Is it lead? Is it a tracer pellet? Also: is there an empty gap ahead of the core?
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Originally Posted By dedreckon: Interesting. In regular use in Russia these days? I know these are used in PKMs and SVDs and other combloc weapons successfully but has the rimmed cartridge ever been an issue for reliable use? View Quote The PKM is reliable and in use all over the globe - particularly in Africa, the ME, Asia; in current combat in Yemen and Ukraine , etc. |
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Originally Posted By dedreckon: Interesting. In regular use in Russia these days? I know these are used in PKMs and SVDs and other combloc weapons successfully but has the rimmed cartridge ever been an issue for reliable use? View Quote PKM is often cited as the best available GPMG these days. The Brits ran .303 out of 30 round mags on the BREN. Soviets went w/ a pan mag on the DP; Lewis used a rather complex mag on the Lewis. OP, thank you for posting these. You've gone to a lot of trouble over the years to section cases, take beautiful photos, & post em. |
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Well, isn't this a fine kettle of fish.
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FWIW, the lead surrounding the core is a cushion to allow the rifling to engrave the jacket when fired. The pusher cups of other designs perform the same function in addition to the role described above.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: PKM is often cited as the best available GPMG these days. The Brits ran .303 out of 30 round mags on the BREN. Soviets went w/ a pan mag on the DP; Lewis used a rather complex mag on the Lewis. OP, thank you for posting these. You've gone to a lot of trouble over the years to section cases, take beautiful photos, & post em. View Quote yep, that is why I asked, wondered what challenges rimmed cartriges have if any -- I know, off topic I should start my own. |
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Originally Posted By dedreckon: yep, that is why I asked, wondered what challenges rimmed cartriges have if any -- I know, off topic I should start my own. View Quote Lots, but they worked quite well w/ cloth belts, b/c the gun had to pull the cartridge out of the belt anyway. So if you design a disintegrating belt around the cartridge, no issues. Big magazines is where things get dicey - and notably the Soviets went rimless w/ the 7.62x39mm. Look @ the hoops Kel-Tec has gone to w/ their 30 rnd .22 LR & WMR mags. |
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Well, isn't this a fine kettle of fish.
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I wonder what the velocity of the tungsten core version is?
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Always interesting, Thank You for posting !
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: I wonder what the velocity of the tungsten core version is? View Quote Very little info out there on this round. (Except from video game "Escape from Tarkov", who states the velocity is 785 m/s) Never found the real velocity, but the mass of the 7h37 core is 11.7-11.9g. Andrii Donets states that it will penetrate 10mm of 2P (500HB) steel plate at 500m |
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Great pics as always
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Great pictures, thanks. Now I have to take my Mosin to the range next trip. Shooting it is a blast, cleaning after, not so much.
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Here are a few I sectioned about ten years ago. Going old-school, these are some of the predecessors to the newer generation of 7.62x54r AP types.
Attached File |
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Originally Posted By backbencher: PKM is often cited as the best available GPMG these days. The Brits ran .303 out of 30 round mags on the BREN. Soviets went w/ a pan mag on the DP; Lewis used a rather complex mag on the Lewis. OP, thank you for posting these. You've gone to a lot of trouble over the years to section cases, take beautiful photos, & post em. View Quote I would vote for the KAC LMG, myself. |
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"And then I woke up."
"You can make O6 or keep your integrity.” -Sylvan |
Well, isn't this a fine kettle of fish.
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"And then I woke up."
"You can make O6 or keep your integrity.” -Sylvan |
Well, isn't this a fine kettle of fish.
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Originally Posted By wolfganggross: New Russian 7,62x54R armor piercing. Don't even bother asking if I have extras, already gone. Extremely rare and expensive. 7H13 (PP) with hardened steel core and purple neck/ red primer 7H26 (BP) with hardened steel core and both red neck and primer sealant 7H37 with tungsten carbide core and both black neck/ primer. And the core is heavy at 7.3g (M993 has 5.91g, and RUAG P/T/308 at 5.59g) No tip colors, goes by primer/ neck sealant colors and dates. Questions are welcome, thanks for looking wolfganggross https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/244346/7N37yugoAPI011321_011_JPG-1779857.jpg View Quote Wonderful cutaways. What is the core weight and length of the 7H26? I'm curious to how it compares to M2AP, and whether we'd expect it to be more penetrative: |
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7.62x54r AP ( actually B-32 API ) has better penetration than M2 AP due to higher MV, IIRC. Back when we had a lot of troops in hard body armor ( proofed against M2 AP ) in Iraq there were cases where it was being defeated. It was determined to be the result of being hit by B-32. I would expect the newer generation of 54r AP to also outperform M2 AP.
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Originally Posted By 1Devildog: 7.62x54r AP ( actually B-32 API ) has better penetration than M2 AP due to higher MV, IIRC. Back when we had a lot of troops in hard body armor ( proofed against M2 AP ) in Iraq there were cases where it was being defeated. It was determined to be the result of being hit by B-32. I would expect the newer generation of 54r AP to also outperform M2 AP. View Quote Whats the weight of the b32 api projectile? Anyone have a cutaway of it? |
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"Republic, I like the sound of the word. It means people can live free, talk free, go or come, buy or sell, be drunk or sober however they choose." John Wayne
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I recall the B-32M had incendiary in the front and rear when I sectioned one. I can't find my pics to verify this though.
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Much of this stuff on the commercial market, or just samples seived from foreign military stockpiles, etc.?
Looks like an interesting design Good to see an old cartridge being brought up to date |
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Ashli Babbit RIP
www.mooreleather.co.uk |
Originally Posted By 1Devildog: 7.62x54r AP ( actually B-32 API ) has better penetration than M2 AP due to higher MV, IIRC. Back when we had a lot of troops in hard body armor ( proofed against M2 AP ) in Iraq there were cases where it was being defeated. It was determined to be the result of being hit by B-32. I would expect the newer generation of 54r AP to also outperform M2 AP. View Quote |
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MV for M2 AP is around 2700 fps. Where are you getting 3000 fps M2 AP data? M2 AP projectile loaded in .300 Win Mag?
IIRC when this subject came up the B-32 was stated something like 100-150 FPS faster which was apparently enough to defeat the early issue ESAPI on occasion. I wish I could find the report/article where I read about it. |
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I've pushed m2 past 3300 fps in a .300 Win. Dont think there's much out there that will withstand that.
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"Republic, I like the sound of the word. It means people can live free, talk free, go or come, buy or sell, be drunk or sober however they choose." John Wayne
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Originally Posted By 1Devildog: MV for M2 AP is around 2700 fps. Where are you getting 3000 fps M2 AP data? M2 AP projectile loaded in .300 Win Mag? IIRC when this subject came up the B-32 was stated something like 100-150 FPS faster which was apparently enough to defeat the early issue ESAPI on occasion. I wish I could find the report/article where I read about it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 1Devildog: MV for M2 AP is around 2700 fps. Where are you getting 3000 fps M2 AP data? M2 AP projectile loaded in .300 Win Mag? IIRC when this subject came up the B-32 was stated something like 100-150 FPS faster which was apparently enough to defeat the early issue ESAPI on occasion. I wish I could find the report/article where I read about it. Armor Rating 3 shots of 166-grain (10.8 g) .30-06 M2 AP armor-piercing bullets at a velocity of 2,850-foot-per-second (870 m/s)+50-foot-per-second (15 m/s) (V0) and 3,000-foot-per-second (910 m/s) (V50 - first shot only). |
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Buffman, what are the standards for the XSAPI plates?
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Well, isn't this a fine kettle of fish.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Buffman, what are the standards for the XSAPI plates? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes 6 shots of 147-grain (9.5 g) 7.62×51mm M80 ball bullets at a velocity of 2,750-foot-per-second (840 m/s)+50-foot-per-second (15 m/s) (V0). 6 shots of 147-grain (9.5 g) 7.62×54mmR LPS steel-core FMJ bullets at a velocity of 2,750-foot-per-second (840 m/s)+50-foot-per-second (15 m/s) (V0). 6 shots of 114-grain (7.4 g) 7.62×39mm 57-BZ-231 (BZ API) armor-piercing incendiary bullets at a velocity of 2,400-foot-per-second (730 m/s)+50-foot-per-second (15 m/s) (V0). 3 shots of 166-grain (10.8 g) .30-06 M2 AP armor-piercing bullets at a velocity of 2,850-foot-per-second (870 m/s)+50-foot-per-second (15 m/s) (V0) and 3,000-foot-per-second (910 m/s) (V50 - first shot only). 3 shots of 151-grain (9.8 g) 7.62×54mmR 7N1 "Sniper" steel-core bullets at a velocity of 2,700-foot-per-second (820 m/s)+50-foot-per-second (15 m/s) (V0). 3 shots of 129-grain (8.4 g) 7.62×51mm M993 AP bullets at a velocity of 3,050-foot-per-second (930 m/s)+50-foot-per-second (15 m/s) (V0) and 3,200-foot-per-second (980 m/s) (V50 - first shot only).[23][25] 3 shots of 52-grain (3.4 g) 5.56×45mm M995 AP bullets at a velocity of 3,350-foot-per-second (1,020 m/s)+50-foot-per-second (15 m/s) (V0).[26] |
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Cheers. That's some pretty decent ceramic.
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Well, isn't this a fine kettle of fish.
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Very cool info and photos. Thank you for posting. This might be a silly question but are these projectiles available in the market place at all or is the supply limited to a small handful in the hands of collectors?
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I'll get my man... to clean your kit.
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