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Posted: 6/12/2024 12:39:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: spmx7777]
I’m not seeing much online about the LMT Defender 308. What are the pros and cons of this weapon?
Basically I want modern semi auto 308, reliable and accurate, doesn’t have to be an AR10 but I know the AR system pretty well. I had an M1A 30 years ago and didn’t care for it. Same with a Garand. I had a S&W M&P 10 308 a few years ago and didn’t like that either. The LMT looks like a good combination of features I care about. I don’t need it to be ambi. I’d prefer an 18” 308 barrel but 16” 1-in-10 will work well enough for the distances I care about. I’d probably replace the carbine stock with something like B5 stock. And I have bipods that will work. I have a stockpile of Magpul magazines that will work, so that’s not an issue. Eventually I’d like to have a suppressor for this rifle too. LMT seems to churn their models a lot, am I wrong about that? I'm not going to be a happy camper if this one gets discontinued shortly after I buy one.  Thanks a lot |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 3:19:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Why they didn’t put a (their) SOPMOD stock on there is beyond me.
The only bad thing about LMT: finding one in stock. |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 6:20:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: Why they didn’t put a (their) SOPMOD stock on there is beyond me. The only bad thing about LMT: finding one in stock. I think was just a cost saving measure to keep the price point of this model low(er). |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 6:42:36 PM EDT
[#3]
I have a 14.5" 6.5 version that is probably one of the guns in my collection that I shoot the most.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2024 6:55:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By unclemoak: I have a 14.5" 6.5 version that is probably one of the guns in my collection that I shoot the most. How much of your personal touch have you added to the rifle? |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 8:56:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By unclemoak: I have a 14.5" 6.5 version that is probably one of the guns in my collection that I shoot the most. I have the 20” LMT and wish the 18s weren’t so rare (even rarer than normal LMT rare) and that they made a shorter one. |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 10:05:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: Did you get an 18 or 20” LMT barrel cut or another vendor? I have the 20” LMT and wish the 18s weren’t so rare (even rarer than normal LMT rare) and that they made a shorter one. I have a factory 13.5  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 10:34:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Do it! The defender is just their “cheaper version of the MARS-H that uses the non-full ambi lower the original MWS did…and a cheaper stock. I have an original early MWS and a 16” MLOK as well. Bought 16” LW and 20” .308 barrels, as well as a 20” 6.5 CM barrel. Set up the MWS as a DMR and the MLOK rifle as a battle rifle. Love them and both are sub-MOA guns with all barrels. LMT did these right.
 Attached File Attached File |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2024 11:48:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#8]
I am not a fan of the AR-10/LR-308 rifles, and I don't know much about the higher end rifles. I will only ask, are you sure you want to discount all rifles with anything but a 1:10 twist rate? I don't mind the 1:10 twist, but at the same time, I would just as gladly buy a 1:12 twist, if not prefer it. A 1:12 is fine for bullets up to 200 grains in a 30 caliber. It's ideal for 165-180 grain bullets like so many are shooting, so what purpose does a 1:10 have unless you are shooting 200 gr and heavier target bullets?
If I had the budget you do, I would be looking at a FN SCAR 17S, but it has a 1:12 twist barrel. |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 7:41:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fgshoot: I am not a fan of the AR-10/LR-308 rifles, and I don't know much about the higher end rifles. I will only ask, are you sure you want to discount all rifles with anything but a 1:10 twist rate? I don't mind the 1:10 twist, but at the same time, I would just as gladly buy a 1:12 twist, if not prefer it. A 1:12 is fine for bullets up to 200 grains in a 30 caliber. It's ideal for 165-180 grain bullets like so many are shooting, so what purpose does a 1:10 have unless you are shooting 200 gr and heavier target bullets? If I had the budget you do, I would be looking at a FN SCAR 17S, but it has a 1:12 twist barrel. You are incorrect on twist rates and bullet weights. While it varies barrel to barrel, most 1:12’s won’t even shoot 175’s that well. And I had a SCARbage-17s, along with nearly every other battle rifle on the market. These LMT’s are the best bang for the buck and are not just range toys. |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 8:14:28 AM EDT
[#10]
They are great platforms ... over gassed ... but that can be mitigated by BRT has tube ... or an adjustable gas key ...
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Posted: 6/13/2024 8:51:03 AM EDT
[#11]
I have a lot of surplus 308 with lighter bullets that'll get fed through this. I guess I better first check if it's corrosive or not. LOL. I'm not necessarily looking for one hole accuracy at 500 yards, it's a serious rifle for a serious purpose.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2024 9:49:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Given the number of complaints I've heard about LMT's lacksadaiscal QC and customer service for retail customers, I'd consider getting a Seekins Precision SP-10 instead, since it's almost exactly the same price as the LMT
Defender. The Seekins got picked up on a SOCOM contract as a DMR rifle. How big the contract is I couldn't tell you, but SOCOM apparently likes the SP-10 and that's usually a strong endorsement of a rifle. I absolutely love the 13.5" LMT 7.62 battle rifle, by the way, but that's not the gun you're asking about. |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 11:19:18 AM EDT
[#13]
Based on what you heard versus what we have.
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Posted: 6/13/2024 12:20:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: You are incorrect on twist rates and bullet weights. While it varies barrel to barrel, most 1:12’s won’t even shoot 175’s that well. And I had a SCARbage-17s, along with nearly every other battle rifle on the market. These LMT’s are the best bang for the buck and are not just range toys. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: Originally Posted By fgshoot: I am not a fan of the AR-10/LR-308 rifles, and I don't know much about the higher end rifles. I will only ask, are you sure you want to discount all rifles with anything but a 1:10 twist rate? I don't mind the 1:10 twist, but at the same time, I would just as gladly buy a 1:12 twist, if not prefer it. A 1:12 is fine for bullets up to 200 grains in a 30 caliber. It's ideal for 165-180 grain bullets like so many are shooting, so what purpose does a 1:10 have unless you are shooting 200 gr and heavier target bullets? If I had the budget you do, I would be looking at a FN SCAR 17S, but it has a 1:12 twist barrel. You are incorrect on twist rates and bullet weights. While it varies barrel to barrel, most 1:12’s won’t even shoot 175’s that well. And I had a SCARbage-17s, along with nearly every other battle rifle on the market. These LMT’s are the best bang for the buck and are not just range toys. This. Berger recommends a minimum twist of 1:11.5” for the 185gr OTM and a minimum of 1:11.3” for their 175gr VLD. I 1:10” all the .308 things |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2024 1:18:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#15]
I have never seen a 1:12 that wouldn't shoot a 175gr SMK. That's the ideal twist for them, they are made just for 1:12. Every 1:12 I ever tried shot 180gr hunting bullets too. I never shot the heavier Bergers.
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SD, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2024 1:32:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Luny421: This. Berger recommends a minimum twist of 1:11.5” for the 185gr OTM and a minimum of 1:11.3” for their 175gr VLD. I 1:10” all the .308 things Here is straight from the Berger website. 175gr VLD minimum twist rate 1:13" 185gr OTM minimum twist rate 1:12" Sounds like 1:12 ought to work great to me. You are all free to do as you wish. I just think ignoring a 308 with a 1:12 twist is a mistake. |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 2:05:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK3110: How much of your personal touch have you added to the rifle? Made it full auto and that's about it. |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 2:07:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: Did you get an 18 or 20" LMT barrel cut or another vendor? I have the 20" LMT and wish the 18s weren't so rare (even rarer than normal LMT rare) and that they made a shorter one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: Originally Posted By unclemoak: I have a 14.5" 6.5 version that is probably one of the guns in my collection that I shoot the most. I have the 20" LMT and wish the 18s weren't so rare (even rarer than normal LMT rare) and that they made a shorter one. 18" 6.5 barrels are fairly common, I probably even have a few on the shelf. My barrel is a factory 14.5" overrun from the MRGG-A solicitation. |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 3:42:23 PM EDT
[#19]
@unclemoak will a surefire 3 prong get a 13.5 to 16 pinned ? If not 14 ? I may need to set something up in the near future.
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Posted: 6/13/2024 3:57:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Great rifles.
Heavy as heck. I think my 13.5 with nothing on it weighs almost 10 pounds. You’ll easily have a 12-15lb rifle depending on what all you stick on it. |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 4:02:23 PM EDT
[#21]
Thanks everyone for all the thoughts and info. Another possibility for me is the recently announced SOLGW MK-10.
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Posted: 6/13/2024 4:52:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fgshoot: Here is straight from the Berger website. 175gr VLD minimum twist rate 1:13" 185gr OTM minimum twist rate 1:12" Sounds like 1:12 ought to work great to me. You are all free to do as you wish. I just think ignoring a 308 with a 1:12 twist is a mistake. From Berger’s website: 175gr VLD  Attached File185gr OTM  Attached FileAlso from Berger’s website:  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 6:01:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fgshoot: Here is straight from the Berger website. 175gr VLD minimum twist rate 1:13" 185gr OTM minimum twist rate 1:12" Sounds like 1:12 ought to work great to me. You are all free to do as you wish. I just think ignoring a 308 with a 1:12 twist is a mistake. Stabilize (not keyhole) and shoot well are not the same thing. Out of a half dozen 1:12 twist precision .308’s I’ve owned none of them shot anything heavier than 168 gr very well. Just speaking from experience. 1:12 is fine if all you’re shooting is M80 ball. Why do you think FN came to their senses and finally decided to offer the SCAR-20 on 1:10? People want rifles that shoot 175+gr projectiles well. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2024 7:13:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: stevelish]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spmx7777: I have a lot of surplus 308 with lighter bullets that'll get fed through this. I guess I better first check if it's corrosive or not. LOL. I'm not necessarily looking for one hole accuracy at 500 yards, it's a serious rifle for a serious purpose. Look at a SCAR 17, it's designed to shoot M80 with the 1:12 twist barrel, and does it well at 8.0 pounds. LMT makes great stuff, but those MRP 308 guns are heavy... 9.73 pounds naked. Slap an optic, full magazine, suppressor, etc... and you are easily way over 10 pounds. If it's a range toy, no problem. If you have a serious purpose that involves actually carrying the thing, not sure the weight will be worth bearing. |
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Posted: 6/14/2024 9:45:49 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vet14tango10: @unclemoak will a surefire 3 prong get a 13.5 to 16 pinned ? If not 14 ? I may need to set something up in the near future. Barrel length + muzzle device length - 0.625" thread overlap = OAL |
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Posted: 6/14/2024 10:30:39 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stevelish: Look at a SCAR 17, it's designed to shoot M80 with the 1:12 twist barrel, and does it well at 8.0 pounds. LMT makes great stuff, but those MRP 308 guns are heavy... 9.73 pounds naked. Slap an optic, full magazine, suppressor, etc... and you are easily way over 10 pounds. If it's a range toy, no problem. If you have a serious purpose that involves actually carrying the thing, not sure the weight will be worth bearing. Thanks. Maybe I should take a deep breath, slow down, and think about this more thoroughly. At my age of 64 and physical condition, actually pretty good overall but knees are a weak point, I’m no young warrior. I like having the cool military’ish guns toys but really I’d be content with a heavy range gun in 308 or even 6.5CM. I have a few light weight 5.56 rifles for carrying and serious use. I can use 77gr OTM ammo that will work well for that. I have heavy bolt guns in 308 and 6.5CM, a heavy semi auto large caliber would round out the collection, but maybe that’s not even necessary. More later. |
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Posted: 6/14/2024 11:14:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SPTiger]
[#27]
I'm in the same boat. I want a .308 AR but I have no idea where to start. I'm still considering building one, but that's a whole 'nother set of questions. I'd prefer one with a 16" barrel because it's gonna be suppressed 100% of the time. Also, it needs to be able to use the Magpul SR25/M110 magazines. I bought a box full of them last year when they were on sale, even though I don't have a .308 AR. smh
The LMT looks good to me, but the only experience I've had with LMT was a 10.5" 5.56 upper. It was an excellent upper though, no problems at all. ETA- Been looking at the Daniel Defense DD5 V3. That's more appealing to me since it already has an adjustable gas block on it. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2024 2:13:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPTiger: I'm in the same boat. I want a .308 AR but I have no idea where to start. I'm still considering building one, but that's a whole 'nother set of questions. I'd prefer one with a 16" barrel because it's gonna be suppressed 100% of the time. Also, it needs to be able to use the Magpul SR25/M110 magazines. I bought a box full of them last year when they were on sale, even though I don't have a .308 AR. smh The LMT looks good to me, but the only experience I've had with LMT was a 10.5" 5.56 upper. It was an excellent upper though, no problems at all. ETA- Been looking at the Daniel Defense DD5 V3. That's more appealing to me since it already has an adjustable gas block on it. I built one with Aero parts and wish I'd waited and gotten a "better" one. My aero shoots just fine, no problems but I'd rather have something I'd 100% trust in a real world SHITuation. I'm not sure if that's DD, LMT, or just plain SCAR. |
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Posted: 6/14/2024 2:35:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DV8EDD: I built one with Aero parts and wish I'd waited and gotten a "better" one. My aero shoots just fine, no problems but I'd rather have something I'd 100% trust in a real world SHITuation. I'm not sure if that's DD, LMT, or just plain SCAR. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DV8EDD: Originally Posted By SPTiger: I'm in the same boat. I want a .308 AR but I have no idea where to start. I'm still considering building one, but that's a whole 'nother set of questions. I'd prefer one with a 16" barrel because it's gonna be suppressed 100% of the time. Also, it needs to be able to use the Magpul SR25/M110 magazines. I bought a box full of them last year when they were on sale, even though I don't have a .308 AR. smh The LMT looks good to me, but the only experience I've had with LMT was a 10.5" 5.56 upper. It was an excellent upper though, no problems at all. ETA- Been looking at the Daniel Defense DD5 V3. That's more appealing to me since it already has an adjustable gas block on it. I built one with Aero parts and wish I'd waited and gotten a "better" one. My aero shoots just fine, no problems but I'd rather have something I'd 100% trust in a real world SHITuation. I'm not sure if that's DD, LMT, or just plain SCAR. Yeah, I was avoiding the cheaper options, just because something tells me I should spend a little more on a .308 AR. I don't know why, it's just a gut feeling. |
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Posted: 6/14/2024 11:26:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPTiger: Yeah, I was avoiding the cheaper options, just because something tells me I should spend a little more on a .308 AR. I don't know why, it's just a gut feeling. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPTiger: Originally Posted By DV8EDD: Originally Posted By SPTiger: I'm in the same boat. I want a .308 AR but I have no idea where to start. I'm still considering building one, but that's a whole 'nother set of questions. I'd prefer one with a 16" barrel because it's gonna be suppressed 100% of the time. Also, it needs to be able to use the Magpul SR25/M110 magazines. I bought a box full of them last year when they were on sale, even though I don't have a .308 AR. smh The LMT looks good to me, but the only experience I've had with LMT was a 10.5" 5.56 upper. It was an excellent upper though, no problems at all. ETA- Been looking at the Daniel Defense DD5 V3. That's more appealing to me since it already has an adjustable gas block on it. I built one with Aero parts and wish I'd waited and gotten a "better" one. My aero shoots just fine, no problems but I'd rather have something I'd 100% trust in a real world SHITuation. I'm not sure if that's DD, LMT, or just plain SCAR. Yeah, I was avoiding the cheaper options, just because something tells me I should spend a little more on a .308 AR. I don't know why, it's just a gut feeling. I built my only .308 AR using Aero M5 receivers and a 16” Criterion barrel with rifle length gas. After ~500 trouble free rounds, I have no reservations about trusting it. If someone wants to spend 2x-3x as much for peace of mind, have at it. It’s your money. |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 8:27:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Luny421: I built my only .308 AR using Aero M5 receivers and a 16” Criterion barrel with rifle length gas. After ~500 trouble free rounds, I have no reservations about trusting it. If someone wants to spend 2x-3x as much for peace of mind, have at it. It’s your money. It’s a bit more than “peace of mind”. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2024 9:45:44 AM EDT
[#32]
Another vote for the Defender if you don't need the ambi bolt release. Mine has been accurate, reliable and free of QC issues. The LMTs are on the heavier side but you can do some things in accessory choices to minimize the pain. Eventually I'd like to grab a LW16" barrel for mine and I wish they sold that as an option on the defender.
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MS, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:56:07 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm about to assemble my LM8 and likely will do an M110ish clone that is all LMT based (URXII unobtainable). I'll just be honest in the regards to weight. AR10s are not their little brother. They're heavy. Period. Outside of the Scar mentioned above they're just not light platforms. LMT has a hugely unique feature with the ability to switch barrels with little to no effort. Want it lighter? Get Dwilson top spin you up a proof. Yes the LMT is slightly heavier than other platforms but you deck any large frame out and it turns into a pig. Which is fine honestly.
I think if you're wanting bolt gun accuracy Seekin's is going to be very hard to beat. From the results i've seen with LMT or KAC for that matter i'd expect sub-MOA but nothing bolt rifle like. Seekins and Larue however consistently seem to print ridiculous groups for a semi. |
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