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Posted: 6/1/2024 12:10:17 AM EDT
I’ve never seen this before. This is a Vltor A5 buffer system on a SOLGW carbine. 2,019 rounds fired suppressed. Spring looks corroded.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 12:21:40 AM EDT
[#1]
WTF......Don't you clean & maintain that thing?
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Posted: 6/1/2024 1:50:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: WTF......Don't you clean & maintain that thing? Not his fault, that's not a high round count. I've never heard of that before either OP, someone owes you a spring. |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 2:43:57 AM EDT
[#3]
funny - this happened to me recently, too... was running sluggish so i gave it a deep clean, my a5h3 had the buffer pin walking out so i thought that was the issue. spring was a springco green. had various 10.3-12.5 barreled uppers, mostly suppressed, dunno how many rounds i had through it since the last deep clean, total round count on that spring is somewhere around 20k. still broke in 2 places. having shop stock is helpful
 
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Posted: 6/1/2024 6:52:18 AM EDT
[#4]
Damn!
I have seen springs get compressed shorter over time. I have never ever seen one break in an AR. I have seen original USGI Garand springs from CMP break after the first couple trips to the range but they were likely 50+ years old. I have one A5 Vltor set up but I haven’t shot that one. It’s on a rifle though. I don’t own suppressed gear so I have zip for experience on the gas flow rearward on extraction in those conditions. Were you looking at and cleaning the buffer at all in those 2000 rounds? The result is pretty harsh. |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 7:49:08 AM EDT
[#5]
I've never seen a rusty buffer and spring like that. Looks like poor maintenance was the cause.
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Posted: 6/1/2024 7:59:14 AM EDT
[#6]
id use this as a reason to go back to mil spec parts...
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Posted: 6/1/2024 8:48:38 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: id use this as a reason to go back to mil spec parts... Just use a standard rifle spring and change it every 5K or so. |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 8:51:05 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never seen a rusty buffer and spring like that. Looks like poor maintenance was the cause. chrome silicon rusts. Shooting suppressed is dirty and the blowback will eventually blow the lube off. I occasionally remove mine and wipe it down with a oily rag. Mil spec springs are made from stainless steel. |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 10:15:51 AM EDT
[#9]
Geissele Super 42 spring.
Rub some oil on it every so often and you'll be okay. |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 10:57:54 AM EDT
[#10]
A good example of why the TDP action spring is 17-7 stainless.
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Posted: 6/1/2024 11:11:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A good example of why the TDP action spring is 17-7 stainless. This /\  Colt Vs Sprinco Buffer Spring; Corrosion Testing |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 11:15:35 AM EDT
[#12]
If you are going to run a chrome silicon spring, you should probably lube it good. I lube mine good.
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Posted: 6/1/2024 1:36:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its not the buffer or A5 problem. Its a chrome silicon spring issue. Just use a standard rifle spring and change it every 5K or so. This is very likely the root cause. I’ve used Colt springs with my VLTOR A5 and never had these issues. I just replace them every 5k. |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 2:55:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Sent these pics to SOLGW and they want the spring to look at and they have stated they will replace the items. This isn’t their product so they don’t have to do this but it’s cool of them to offer.
For comparison, here is another Vltor buffer and spring with 4,478 rounds. It clearly looks like an issue with this specific spring. Hoppes #9 and Slip 2000 EWL all I have used on the gun.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 3:13:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Solgw is good shit. I’m not even surprised they are handling this no issue.
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Posted: 6/1/2024 5:30:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is very likely the root cause. I’ve used Colt springs with my VLTOR A5 and never had these issues. I just replace them every 5k. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Its not the buffer or A5 problem. Its a chrome silicon spring issue. Just use a standard rifle spring and change it every 5K or so. This is very likely the root cause. I’ve used Colt springs with my VLTOR A5 and never had these issues. I just replace them every 5k. Chrome silicon is not the issue. Obviously a manufacturers defect. |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 5:32:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Chrome-silicon was developed for the recoil springs of anti-aircraft guns during WWII. Its martensitic microstructure rendered it a lot tougher than other types of wire (like music wire), particularly at low temperatures. It tolerates shock-loading much better.
It's completely inferior to 17-7 in this application (the AR15 op spring, that is). |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 6:26:58 PM EDT
[#18]
I don’t want to go against the “mil-spec” grain here, but could this be solved with an appropriate chemical?
Fluid Film or Corrosion X could possibly be “heavy duty” enough to hold up to suppressed firing? |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 7:43:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Sons wants the entire rifle to inspect to see if it can be determined what the cause of the corrosion is and also want to confirm that the gas block and other parts of the rifle are not experiencing the same issue.
I took a look at the rest of my rifles and nothing like the first pics. No different cleaning chemicals or lubricants. It’s a mystery. I’m sure the guys will figure it out. |
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Posted: 6/2/2024 12:29:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Just out of curiosity, any specific ammo you are using the most of ?
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Posted: 6/2/2024 12:45:09 AM EDT
[#21]
That's not a VLTOR A5 buffer issue - that's a spring issue. Or more correctly, that's a spring combined with a suppressed gun blowing shit back into your action, without maintenance, issue. And a poor quality spring apparently. I'm curious if you shoot in cold weather, because the shit the suppressor is blowing back into your action includes combustion products which includes hot water vapor, which is a combustion product. At a wild guess, you built up condensate in your buffer from the suppressor blowback while it's cycling - that the additional suppressor soot-shit damned near gas-tight sealed into the buffer tube, what with all the suppressor blow-back goo shit all over the spring (just look at that thing), so the condensate (water) sat in your buffer tube and chewed on your spring.
The good news is that spring is piss cheap. It's just a rifle spring. Get another and off ya go. Also, discard the suppressor. F'ing suppressors - what a discretionary PITA problem-inducer. Anyway, refuse to do that, and fine - make removing the buffer and spring so they can air out at the end of each session, part of your routine. |
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Posted: 6/2/2024 1:08:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Both of the spring failures in this thread appear to be Sprinco springs and these wouldn't be the first time I've seen them corroded and breaking like that. Clean/Lube your buffer springs periodically.
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Posted: 6/2/2024 2:24:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just out of curiosity, any specific ammo you are using the most of ? IMI, Winchester and PMC. |
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Posted: 6/2/2024 2:28:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not a VLTOR A5 buffer issue - that's a spring issue. Or more correctly, that's a spring combined with a suppressed gun blowing shit back into your action, without maintenance, issue. And a poor quality spring apparently. I'm curious if you shoot in cold weather, because the shit the suppressor is blowing back into your action includes combustion products which includes hot water vapor, which is a combustion product. At a wild guess, you built up condensate in your buffer from the suppressor blowback while it's cycling - that the additional suppressor soot-shit damned near gas-tight sealed into the buffer tube, what with all the suppressor blow-back goo shit all over the spring (just look at that thing), so the condensate (water) sat in your buffer tube and chewed on your spring. The good news is that spring is piss cheap. It's just a rifle spring. Get another and off ya go. Also, discard the suppressor. F'ing suppressors - what a discretionary PITA problem-inducer. Anyway, refuse to do that, and fine - make removing the buffer and spring so they can air out at the end of each session, part of your routine. The thing is, none of my other rifles are experiencing this problem and they are all shot suppressed with the same ammo and cleaning/lubrication. I do have to say though, I’ve never taken the time to clean and lube the buffer spring before. The only reason this one got any attention was because it broke in multiple places and locked up the gun. |
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Posted: 6/2/2024 2:40:38 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing is, none of my other rifles are experiencing this problem and they are all shot suppressed with the same ammo and cleaning/lubrication. I do have to say though, I’ve never taken the time to clean and lube the buffer spring before. The only reason this one got any attention was because it broke in multiple places and locked up the gun. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's not a VLTOR A5 buffer issue - that's a spring issue. Or more correctly, that's a spring combined with a suppressed gun blowing shit back into your action, without maintenance, issue. And a poor quality spring apparently. I'm curious if you shoot in cold weather, because the shit the suppressor is blowing back into your action includes combustion products which includes hot water vapor, which is a combustion product. At a wild guess, you built up condensate in your buffer from the suppressor blowback while it's cycling - that the additional suppressor soot-shit damned near gas-tight sealed into the buffer tube, what with all the suppressor blow-back goo shit all over the spring (just look at that thing), so the condensate (water) sat in your buffer tube and chewed on your spring. The good news is that spring is piss cheap. It's just a rifle spring. Get another and off ya go. Also, discard the suppressor. F'ing suppressors - what a discretionary PITA problem-inducer. Anyway, refuse to do that, and fine - make removing the buffer and spring so they can air out at the end of each session, part of your routine. The thing is, none of my other rifles are experiencing this problem and they are all shot suppressed with the same ammo and cleaning/lubrication. I do have to say though, I’ve never taken the time to clean and lube the buffer spring before. The only reason this one got any attention was because it broke in multiple places and locked up the gun. Yea, interesting. I do think it's condensate / water damage that got trapped in there and worked on it. Not sure if there was some distinct aspect of its life to cause it to be water exposed, or otherwise trap moisture. Like maybe you shot this gun particularly heavy on a particular cold day, or store it in your outside car, or something different about it's life or usage? It might not actually be the suppressor alone, though I do still have that high on my list of suspected contributors - but as you say, that alone may not be it there and there may be a confounding factor with it. |
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Posted: 6/2/2024 6:39:22 AM EDT
[#26]
IMHO, buffer/spring works better with a blast of white lithium grease. Just a blast, not a coat/soak.
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Posted: 6/2/2024 7:59:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also, discard the suppressor. F'ing suppressors - what a discretionary PITA problem-inducer. 
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Posted: 6/2/2024 8:19:34 AM EDT
[#28]
I forget, but does springco put some type of rust inhibitor coating on their cs springs? Maybe this particular spring was missing that?
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Posted: 6/2/2024 8:50:08 AM EDT
[#29]
As mentioned by Lazyengineer. Suppressed shooting can cause condensation buildup.
The wet in the charging handle slot is water not oil  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/3/2024 7:17:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As mentioned by Lazyengineer. Suppressed shooting can cause condensation buildup. The wet in the charging handle slot is water not oil https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/108486/IMG_6377_jpeg-3230014.JPG I found this out yesterday... took one of my suppressed SBRs to the range that hadn't seen any action in months and removed the can an noticed light rusting on the F/H. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:18:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Its not the buffer or A5 problem. Its a chrome silicon spring issue. Just use a standard rifle spring and change it every 5K or so. Quoted: chrome silicon rusts. Shooting suppressed is dirty and the blowback will eventually blow the lube off. I occasionally remove mine and wipe it down with a oily rag. Mil spec springs are made from stainless steel. Quoted: A good example of why the TDP action spring is 17-7 stainless. This stuff. Sprinco springs will rust if you look at them sideways in a humid environment. Just condensation from being in a case or going in and out of airconditioning will do it. And as lazyengineer mentioned, the soot from shooting suppressed doesn’t help. But you don’t need a can to do it. You can rust a Sprinco spring very quickly, even with oil or grease and no silencer, just by living in the southeast US and not babying it like it’s the last spring on Earth. They also make the only extractor spring I can remember snapping into pieces. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:20:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I forget, but does springco put some type of rust inhibitor coating on their cs springs? Maybe this particular spring was missing that? |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 1:52:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Griffin AR .556 & 308 BUFFER SPRINGS EXTRA POWER (+15%) 17-7 stainless steel.
I ordered a few of these in both the A2 and M4 configurations, A2's for my A5 tubes in several SBR's, and a M4 spring to run in a carbine tube with an H3 on my 11.5 SBR. I actually just ran the BCM MK2/A5 with a T1 & T3 buffer on a suppressed 10.5 this past weekend with a std rifle spring and there was a significant difference over the T1. I just recently got into the A5 system, mostly in hopes of just not beating the hell out of the guns while suppressed. Unfortunately I left the other springs at home, a BCM MK2/A5 spring, Green Sprinco and a few more "STD", but different sized A2 springs I have laying around, manufactures unknown. That said, if I get the springs before the weekend I'll try to run all of them and report back. |
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