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Posted: 10/15/2023 9:43:31 AM EDT
Anyone done it? What were your results?
16 inch barrel carbine, manually operated (bolt action). I assume you would want at minimum 300gr bullets, possibly heavier. I have not seen heavier than 300gr for jacketed, seen some 320-330 cast. IQ munitions has 400gr loaded ammo with cast and coated bullets. However $45 for 20 rounds is quite steep! Barrel has a 1-20 twist. I'm not sure how that translates to what bullets will stabilize in it and what will not. I am familiar with twist rates and bullet weights in rifle calibers (223/308, etc..) but not 44 mag. I am not opposed to casting some myself, but would hate to buy a mold and find the bullets will not stabilize or shoot like crap. |
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I ran numbers for a 350 grain slug with a 20 twist and 1100 fps MV, and it would be very stable (SG = 3.54) so no worries there.
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I have a buddy with an integrally suppressed Ruger bolt gun. I don't know the load, but he was running 325 gr JHP. This thing was stupid quiet. The impact was louder than the gun going off. The hold over at distance was interesting. With the sun behind you, you could watch the round fly.
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Vini, Vidi, Bibi
Life is too short to converse with stupid people. Sir The_Dog, charter member Knights of Wonder Cheesecake OG |
Single shot 16" break action here. I've been trying 200gr RN Xtreme in 44spl cases with N320 trying to get better case fills. N320 in 44mag cases was giving some pretty wide velocity swings. I need to dig into that combo further.
I do have a stack of 300XTPs for 44mag sub loads, but haven't settled on a load for that yet. |
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I believe the issue with 300 grainers in lots of rifles was the slow barrel twist rate was not delivering the best accuracy. Couple decades ago two friends had integrally suppressed Ruger 44's and shot 300's which sounded okay but weren't as accurate as a stock rifle shooting 240 grain stuff.
We ran some 300's through my Marlin although I can't recall any details on accuracy; Caliber: 44 Magnum Gun: Marlin 1895 rifle Load: 300 grain Nosler JHP with 8.8 N340 powder & CCI 300 LP primer FPS: 1060, 1064, 1068, 1071 240's with TB & 44 Special cases; Caliber: 44 Magnum Gun: Marlin 1895 rifle (20” barrel) * 44 Special cases * Load: 240 LSWC/HP with 4.0 Trailboss powder & LP primer FPS: 716, 733, 733, 721, 739, 724, 744, 723 Avg = 729 / ES = 28 / SD = 9 Gun: Ruger Redhawk (7.5” barrel) * 44 Special cases * Load: 240 LSWC/HP with 3.5 Clays powder & Wolf LP primer FPS: 664, 669, 675, 676 The Clays load in the 1895 is a riot! |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: I assume you would want at minimum 300gr bullets, possibly heavier. View Quote Not necessarily. What do you want to do with these? Are you just looking for a general suppressed blasting load to kill milk jugs? Or are you wanting something to hunt deer with? Or maybe feral pigs? For a “fun” blasting load, lighter bullets do just fine, and in some instances seem to shoot quieter. For hunting, a subsonic 240 gr. bullet could get the job done. You just have to be selective about shot distance & placement. |
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Originally Posted By GarrettJ: Not necessarily. What do you want to do with these? Are you just looking for a general suppressed blasting load to kill milk jugs? Or are you wanting something to hunt deer with? Or maybe feral pigs? For a “fun” blasting load, lighter bullets do just fine, and in some instances seem to shoot quieter. For hunting, a subsonic 240 gr. bullet could get the job done. You just have to be selective about shot distance & placement. View Quote Suppressed plinking load. I do not hunt. Just want to have fun with the suppressor. Sadly the 44 mag carbine I just bought, turns out the store had already sold it, they just forgot to take it down off their site, which allowed me to "buy" it. They called yesterday and told me they were refunding my money. Was looking forward to testing a few rounds while I waited on my tax stamp. I'll find another carbine. |
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I shoot 360gr cast bullets out of my Henry model x and Ruger 77/44 both with 18” barrels at 1000fps with 13gr of Alliant 300mp. It’s super accurate and it’s the only load the Ruger likes. The Henry is very quite suppressed and the Ruger is going to get cut down somewhere between 6-11” and threaded eventually. I could get about 14 grains of a fine ball powder without too much compression. So once I cut the barrel down I will need to find a different load for a shorter barrel.
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6.5gr Win231/HP-38 with a 240gr SWC makes a nice revolver plinking load. I tried some in a 16" levergun, and the report was so quiet and mild I worried about getting a squib. I chrony'd them and they were going 1050fps |
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Originally Posted By Colt653: 6.5gr Win231/HP-38 with a 240gr SWC makes a nice revolver plinking load. I tried some in a 16" levergun, and the report was so quiet and mild I worried about getting a squib. I chrony'd them and they were going 1050fps View Quote Yea a squib is a worry of mine. However I think if I can keep the velocity around 1k, I shouldn't have to worry too much. However anything is possible. |
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I played around with 300gn 44mag lever gun with low velocity rounds. I loaded some at 300gn xtp at 500-800fps and found it was hard to be accurate. Move the target and it would take several shots to figure out where to aim.
I wanted to hunt with it, but found the xtp wouldn't expand and the inaccurate nature of it led me to just give up on the idea. |
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“If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, Animal Farm |
A 240 Gr cast SWC at 900 fps will wreck a deer or pig. Quiet enough for fun but also enough snort to hunt with.
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Yea a squib is a worry of mine. However I think if I can keep the velocity around 1k, I shouldn't have to worry too much. However anything is possible. View Quote @Jeeps-And-Guns Once I chrony'd them at 1050, I quit worrying about squibs. It was a nice plinking load |
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Was wondering, since they are going to be subs, and lower pressure, is there still a need for mag primers, or would standard primers be fine?
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I only use magnum primers with H110/win296
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Was wondering, since they are going to be subs, and lower pressure, is there still a need for mag primers, or would standard primers be fine? View Quote Primer type is more based on the powder, not the case. I use standard large pistol with my Win244 44 mag “medium” loads. |
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"He had the right hand of the devil strapped tightly to his side."-The Last Cowboy
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I ended up buying some Missouri bullets 300gr "hammer" coated cast bullets.
https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=461&category=20&secondary=12&keywords= I loaded up some of about 7 different powders I had, using quickload and using a 300gr hornady xtp as my bullet (in quickload). I shot a total of 50 rounds, results were inconclusive. All chronoed between 900 and 1k. I was aiming for closer to 1050 and that was what quickload was estimating. However I knew results were going to be different because they do not have the bullets I was using on quickload. Of all the ones I tested, only 3 showed promise. No 9 and HS-6 both had 2in groups, while unique had a 3in group. All the rest were shotgun patterns with some missing the target completely. Gonna load up some more of each of those 3 powders and try to get closer to 1050-1075 fps and see what the accuracy does. That thing stunk badly when shooting it. Only thing I can guess is it was the coating on the bullets, as it did not smell like this shooting regular jacketed bullets. Also, I am not really impressed with the coating on the bullets right now. I still had leading in my barrel after only 50 rounds. I had about 1-2 inches of it just in front of the chamber. It took some extra scrubbing to get it out. I would not have been as surprised about this had I been pushing them at full tilt, but shooting them subsonic, I would not have figured they would have leaded the barrel. I wish there was a more affordable jacketed or plated 300gr bullet. Seems the XTP is the cheapest 300gr I can find, but they are still expensive. |
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I've loaded and fired a metric shit-ton of .44 Special's over the last several years and fired/chronographed them in several revolvers as well as one lever action .44 Special and two lever action .44 Magnums. All these with 250-260 gr. home-cast, traditionally lubed SWC's, and no leading. Most any .44 Special load that runs 850 fps or less from a revolver, is going to be subsonic in a carbine as long as you don't use powder any slower than Unique, Herco, etc.
There's really no reason to use 300 gr. bullet. |
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"People tend to have a proclivity towards an object rather than their own skill."
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Originally Posted By GarrettJ: While most of the commercial coated bullets use Hi Tek coating, I have found not all applications are equal. I have had problems with a couple manufacturers, but have always had good results from MBC. That’s not to say any manufacturer couldn’t get the occasional bad batch. You can do a smash test on your coated bullets to ensure you have a good coating application. You can smash a bullet with a hammer, or I like to do it with a vice. Shown below are three coated bullets from different manufacturers, plus one plated bullet. On a bad application, the coating will flake off when the bulletins smashed. Like the second bullet from the left in the picture. The left-most bullet is from MBC, and the coating looks like it should. The only other thing I’d mention, I’d recommend you check that you have enough flair on the case to ensure you’re not scraping the coating. Even the best coating application will lead the barrel if you scrape it off when seating the bullet. https://i.imgur.com/wHT8INsh.jpg View Quote I actually gave my cases just a little more flare than I use for jacketed/plated bullets specifically for the reason of not wanting to scrape any bullets. When I was a complete a total noob at reloading about 18 or so years ago, I actually scrapped the plating off two 45acp bullets before I learned how much flare was enough....lol I took one and smashed it in my vice as you mentioned and it did not flake off like in your picture. Gonna dig around in the berm sometime and see if I can find any of the fired ones to inspect them. Not sure if I will be able to tell much, but it would be curious to see them. I also measured the bullets and they all measure .429-.430. I wish x-treme bullets made a plated 300gr bullet. I really like their 200 and 240 gr bullets. I know I could load the 240's to subsonic velocities, but I like the 300gr as it will have around 734 ft-lbs of energy at 1050 fps Vs the 240 having 587 ft-lbs. If I continue to have leading problems, I may end up switching to the 240's. |
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I have to wonder if that is caused when the bullet hits the berm. If it yaws to one side on impact, that would explain why more coating is missing on one side vs. the other.
The other thing making me wonder that is the coating missing from the front truncated portion of the bullet. The section that doesn’t touch the rifling. You have coating missing from there as well. Again, I’m thinking anyone could run a batch with poor coating application. So I’m not ruling that out. But your smash test was good. I wonder what those would look like if shot into water. I’ve lined up a row of milk jugs before to catch a bullet. However, shooting a solids makes this difficult. It would probably take a dozen or more jugs of water to catch one of these. |
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I cast my own bullets and traditionally lube and size them. I've always wondered how 1) coating can be applied uniformly and 2)what would keep a barrel with rough internals from rubbing the coating off before the bullet exited the barrel.
Looks like either or both could be the case here. |
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"People tend to have a proclivity towards an object rather than their own skill."
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By Colt653: @Jeeps-And-Guns Once I chrony'd them at 1050, I quit worrying about squibs. It was a nice plinking load View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Colt653: Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Yea a squib is a worry of mine. However I think if I can keep the velocity around 1k, I shouldn't have to worry too much. However anything is possible. @Jeeps-And-Guns Once I chrony'd them at 1050, I quit worrying about squibs. It was a nice plinking load I shot some subsonic 44 mag earlier today. I’m still grinning from how quiet it was. 5.5 gr W231 240gr SWC Blue Bullet Cci300 primer Loaded shorter than normal and with a heavy crimp. No squib issues at all. Had the trajectory of a softball. |
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[Insert creative words here]
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So I finally had some time to try a few more loads.
I took the top 3 powders from my original test, upped the charge a little to try and get closer to 1050-1075 fps. Unique, HS6, and No9. I then added two more I had not previously tried, true blue and W231. I loaded 10 rounds of each and tested them at 50 yards. HS6 had a average of 1080fps No9 had a average of 1073fps W231 had a average of 1041fps These 3 did poorly, shotgun patterns. Unique averaged 1093fps and had a pretty decent group. About 1-3/4 in. True blue averaged 1055fps and had the same size group as unique. However it did have one flier about 3 inches off to the left. Not sure if it was me (I am pretty sure it was not, but going to say it is 100% not). or some random issue with a bullet or something. I left that out of the group size measurement. Of all the powders, unique "sounded" the most quiet of them. Gonna load up some more of unique and TB and do another side by side test to help decide which one to use. I may wait until I get my suppressor to test them suppressed Also, still having issues with these bullets leaving lead in the barrel for about the first 1-2 inches past the chamber. I have to scrub it out with a brush. I checked the bore with a bore scope and it is not rough, no pitting or machining marks or anything to make it want to strip lead. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: So I finally had some time to try a few more loads. I took the top 3 powders from my original test, upped the charge a little to try and get closer to 1050-1075 fps. Unique, HS6, and No9. I then added two more I had not previously tried, true blue and W231. I loaded 10 rounds of each and tested them at 50 yards. HS6 had a average of 1080fps No9 had a average of 1073fps W231 had a average of 1041fps These 3 did poorly, shotgun patterns. Unique averaged 1093fps and had a pretty decent group. About 1-3/4 in. True blue averaged 1055fps and had the same size group as unique. However it did have one flier about 3 inches off to the left. Not sure if it was me (I am pretty sure it was not, but going to say it is 100% not). or some random issue with a bullet or something. I left that out of the group size measurement. Of all the powders, unique "sounded" the most quiet of them. Gonna load up some more of unique and TB and do another side by side test to help decide which one to use. I may wait until I get my suppressor to test them suppressed Also, still having issues with these bullets leaving lead in the barrel for about the first 1-2 inches past the chamber. I have to scrub it out with a brush. I checked the bore with a bore scope and it is not rough, no pitting or machining marks or anything to make it want to strip lead. View Quote I sense you are a candidate for powder coating. (if you want the leading to stop) |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
I will once I get it.
I am about 4-5 months into my wait, hoping I'm not one of the people who have to wait over a year for a approval. Can you powder coat over the coating that is already on these bullets? |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: HS6 had a average of 1080fps No9 had a average of 1073fps W231 had a average of 1041fps These 3 did poorly, shotgun patterns. View Quote Too slow of powder burns, and working pressures too low for the speeds you want to achieve, even with a 300gr bullet. So again, switch to Clays (or a powder in that burn range that is also a flake powder) that will have a higher working pressure for the speeds that you are trying to achieve, and longer load the bullet in the case for less jump to lands as well. If using an extruded or finer grain spherical powder (not a flake powder), then even in this speed/working pressure range, will need to use poly fillers to keep the reduced amount of powder tight to the primer end of the case, to achieve the correct initial burn. With clays, since it's a bulkier flake powder, even with half a case fill, has no problem with even standard pistol primer of achieving a correct through-out burn, without the need of fillers to keep it tight to the primer end of the case. https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/updatedburnrateschart-1.pdf |
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Posted By PlaymoreMinds:
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds... <---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind. |
Originally Posted By Dano523: Too slow of powder burns, and working pressures too low for the speeds you want to achieve, even with a 300gr bullet. So again, switch to Clays (or a powder in that burn range that is also a flake powder) that will have a higher working pressure for the speeds that you are trying to achieve, and longer load the bullet in the case for less jump to lands as well. If using an extruded or finer grain spherical powder (not a flake powder), then even in this speed/working pressure range, will need to use poly fillers to keep the reduced amount of powder tight to the primer end of the case, to achieve the correct initial burn. With clays, since it's a bulkier flake powder, even with half a case fill, has no problem with even standard pistol primer of achieving a correct through-out burn, without the need of fillers to keep it tight to the primer end of the case. https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/updatedburnrateschart-1.pdf View Quote I do not have any clays, but I do have a crap ton of 700X which is close to clays. However 700x is not in quickload, and I have no data at all to even try and figure out a starting load. |
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Ok, after reading around on the internet at lots of people having issues with the hi-tek coatings, I have decided to ditch all of them and stick to only jacketed or plated bullets.
I am tired of scrubbing the lead out of my barrel, and having to treat the bullets like super fragile porcelain dolls, and wasting time trying to make this coating work or do other things to make it work. I simply do not have the free time to cast and powder coat my own bullets either. I barely have enough time to cast 12ga slugs (I have been so busy, I have not had time to cast any for probably 6 months) and I need to cast some more of those. I just sold off the remaining 44's as well as the 1k of 9mm and 45 I had bought. I will be replacing them with plated/jacketed bullets. I am going to restart the subsonic testing using some of the x-treme plated 240gr bullets I have. I have shot lots of them at full power/pressure from my pistols and marlin lever guns (in both 44 and 357) and have yet to have a single issue with them and naturally, zero leading. I might try some of the 200gr I have, but going to start with the 240 for now. Weather is not going to be working in my favor for the next couple weeks, so I will update with results when I get them. |
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I have one of the 265 gr ranch dog molds. I powder coat and size to .431. I use 6.5 gr unique in a 44 mag case. It’s crazy quiet and will cloverleaf rounds at 50 yards from my Henry x.
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I load 240gr plated bullets in .44 mag brass with HP38 to about 1000fps out of my single shot cva .44 mag with suppressor. I SBR's the CVA so the barrel is just barely longer than the handguard.
I am not at home to tell you the exact load. I don't find it particularly accurate but it is good enough for plinking and is fun. I think i had a little more accuracy when I did these loads with trail boss but I have literally enough HP38 to pass some down to my kids when I die. |
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I was shooting plates at 400 yards with 44special loaded with 7.5 gr hs6 and 240 grain blue bullets. That’s a pretty quiet load. Took a few shots to find the plate.
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[Insert creative words here]
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Just to keep this thread from going into the archives, I have just purchased the lee 310gr bullet mold. I am going to try casting some and powder coating them myself and then see how they shoot.
Sad part is, I am not sure when I will be able to do that, it may be a little while. |
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Shooting them subsonic, is the gas check really needed?
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Myself shooting a Redhalk, gas check = good accuracy.
No gas check, = you shoot patterns. I prefer pistol bullet designs without a gas check, but if take a gas check, I put one on. Experiment to see what works for you. I did. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Your bullets look great.
PC is the lube, so no messy lube needed. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
As he said, no lube needed on coated bullets. It's a coating, it does the same thing as plating or a jacket. Some have tried lubing them anyway, and found zero change.
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Better or worse accuracy when using the gas checks? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Originally Posted By bigtex84: I always try some gas checked even though they aren’t needed for subsonic loads. But I have found huge accuracy differences when using checks. But 90% of the time I leave them off. Better or worse accuracy when using the gas checks? Usually you will get better accuracy with gas checks but if it’s not a large improvement I don’t bother with them. I only have a few rifles that I shoot past 100yd with cast bullets. But if I want the absolute best accuracy I use traditional lube or even paper patch if I have the time and patience to sit down and knock out 50-100 of them. |
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So I had a couple min last night. I set up the sizing die in the press and ran about 3-4 through it, no lube.
They seemed to go through no problem and the coating seemed to be ok afterwards. I checked and they measured right at .430. I measured a few of the un sized bullets and they all measured .432-.433. Is this even enough to worry about sizing? I have shot .310-.311 jacketed bullets through.308 bores with never a issue. So is .002-.003 even enough to make a difference? I have not slugged the bore in the gun these will be used in, so I probably should do that. However this is my first experience casting (and coating) actual bullets. Before this, all I had ever cast was some shotgun sabot slugs, so critical measurements are not as important. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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I size all of mine as I want consistency.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Sized them all and had no issues.
I picked two random ones and did the hammer test. They both passed with no issue. So hopefully I should have no issues with leading like I was with the hiteck coating. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Sized them all and had no issues. I picked two random ones and did the hammer test. They both passed with no issue. So hopefully I should have no issues with leading like I was with the hiteck coating. View Quote Got my fingers crossed for the accuracy. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
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