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Posted: 5/27/2024 11:43:29 PM EDT
These have popped up for sale twice that I'm aware of in the last month.
Advertised as having hard cups yet still within NATO spec. They were $220/5k and $230/5k respectively. Sold out within a day each time I got in on the first batch passed on the second as I've not tested them yet. I've now loaded 100 each in .45 and 9mm for testing next range trip. Loading the 9mm tonight I noticed something interesting. Of course AR didn't disclose the manufacturer and the packaging doesn't disclose it either. Or does it?  Attached FileTurns out these appear to be from White River a new joint out of Arkansas. I'll report back once I shoot 'em. If they don't shoot in the striker fired 9s or the hammer fired 45s there's always the AR9... |
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Posted: 5/28/2024 12:30:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By TribunusSanGeorgii: These have popped up for sale twice that I'm aware of in the last month. Advertised as having hard cups yet still within NATO spec. They were $220/5k and $230/5k respectively. Sold out within a day each time I got in on the first batch passed on the second as I've not tested them yet. I've now loaded 100 each in .45 and 9mm for testing next range trip. Loading the 9mm tonight I noticed something interesting. Of course AR didn't disclose the manufacturer and the packaging doesn't disclose it either. Or does it? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/408270/20240527_215104_jpg-3225577.JPG Turns out these appear to be from White River a new joint out of Arkansas. I'll report back once I shoot 'em. If they don't shoot in the striker fired 9s or the hammer fired 45s there's always the AR9... I gotta ask, primers are fully seated right? |
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Posted: 5/28/2024 12:41:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#2]
Thanks! Great post and thread.
Just like you, I got in on the first order. But passed on the second until I get more data. I hadn't even cut open the box yet. Good find on the trays. TBH, the main reason I didn't order any on the second batch, is I assumed there were NATO spec primers from the current LC operator, Winchester. Since Winchester isn't doing so good right now, I didn't want to go double-down, and end up with multiple order of recent Win primers... with Win QC. Encouraging to see these are White River. I know nothing about them, but I know they aren't Winchester, and that's a darned good start. Same questions as Dryflash - what did they look like in the tray? Uniformly packed? Coloration of the primer faces consistent? (Winchester boxes can be an entire rainbow of colors in there). How did they process seating - stiffer or easier or any different than other primers? If you get a chance, take a close-up look at the side of one laying flat - is the anvil flush or is it higher than the rim of the cup? (it's supposed to be higher, and the challenge with the cheap Argentine ones is they are flush, and some people are having misfires with those) |
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Posted: 5/28/2024 2:15:33 AM EDT
[#3]
I grabbed some to try out as well, but I have a F/A UZI that will detonate any primer, guaranteed, so even if they have problems in other guns they will work for that.
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Posted: 5/28/2024 2:44:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Thanks! Great post and thread. Just like you, I got in on the first order. But passed on the second until I get more data. I hadn't even cut open the box yet. Good find on the trays. TBH, the main reason I didn't order any on the second batch, is I assumed there were NATO spec primers from the current LC operator, Winchester. Since Winchester isn't doing so good right now, I didn't want to go double-down, and end up with multiple order of recent Win primers... with Win QC. Encouraging to see these are White River. I know nothing about them, but I know they aren't Winchester, and that's a darned good start. Same questions as Dryflash - what did they look like in the tray? Uniformly packed? Coloration of the primer faces consistent? (Winchester boxes can be an entire rainbow of colors in there). How did they process seating - stiffer or easier or any different than other primers? If you get a chance, take a close-up look at the side of one laying flat - is the anvil flush or is it higher than the rim of the cup? (it's supposed to be higher, and the challenge with the cheap Argentine ones is they are flush, and some people are having misfires with those) As 99% of misfires are caused by improperly seated primers. ( not seated .002 to .003 below flush.) |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2024 2:47:37 PM EDT
[#5]
I bought the first 5k and bought a 2nd 5k last week. I loaded and shot 500 from the first batch. All 500 loaded smoothly (RL1050) in 9mm cases and all went bang the first time (300 in a Staccato P and 200 in a Sig MPX PCC). I have not tested them in a striker fired gun yet but that is next on the list. I'm very happy loading 9mm for $0.12 each (4.5c primer, 5.5c AMR 124Gr blems, 2c titegroup).
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Posted: 5/28/2024 3:38:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sujumanji: I bought the first 5k and bought a 2nd 5k last week. I loaded and shot 500 from the first batch. All 500 loaded smoothly (RL1050) in 9mm cases and all went bang the first time (300 in a Staccato P and 200 in a Sig MPX PCC). I have not tested them in a striker fired gun yet but that is next on the list. I'm very happy loading 9mm for $0.12 each (4.5c primer, 5.5c AMR 124Gr blems, 2c titegroup). 
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Posted: 5/28/2024 4:42:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: Actually, I was asking OP is if each primer was fully seated in the case. As 99% of misfires are caused by improperly seated primers. ( not seated .002 to .003 below flush.) I seat primers with firm pressure, as consistently as I am able. I can take some more pics tonight for your satisfaction. |
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Posted: 5/28/2024 8:22:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Tagged for striker fired reports.
I sat and stared at the AR site after both primer drops but never ordered. If/when they have another batch I will try to grab a case. |
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Posted: 5/28/2024 9:53:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TribunusSanGeorgii: I seat primers with firm pressure, as consistently as I am able. I can take some more pics tonight for your satisfaction. With a tight primer pocket and/or an oversized primer, you can have lots of seating pressure and a high primer. |
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Posted: 5/28/2024 10:42:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: I just want to see primers seated .002 to .003 below flush. With a tight primer pocket and/or an oversized primer, you can have lots of seating pressure and a high primer.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/28/2024 11:04:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Some more observations.
The primer tray last night had some residue in it. I'm not particularly concerned, just an observation.  Attached FileAlso for those who care the laquer color is red on the inside of the primer.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/29/2024 1:21:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TribunusSanGeorgii: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/408270/20240528_213109_jpg-3226202.JPG  beautifulIf primers don't go off it won't be that they were seated incorrectly. |
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Posted: 5/29/2024 1:39:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WeimaranerDad]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Thanks! Great post and thread. Just like you, I got in on the first order. But passed on the second until I get more data. I hadn't even cut open the box yet. Good find on the trays. TBH, the main reason I didn't order any on the second batch, is I assumed there were NATO spec primers from the current LC operator, Winchester. Since Winchester isn't doing so good right now, I didn't want to go double-down, and end up with multiple order of recent Win primers... with Win QC. Encouraging to see these are White River. I know nothing about them, but I know they aren't Winchester, and that's a darned good start. Same questions as Dryflash - what did they look like in the tray? Uniformly packed? Coloration of the primer faces consistent? (Winchester boxes can be an entire rainbow of colors in there). How did they process seating - stiffer or easier or any different than other primers? If you get a chance, take a close-up look at the side of one laying flat - is the anvil flush or is it higher than the rim of the cup? (it's supposed to be higher, and the challenge with the cheap Argentine ones is they are flush, and some people are having misfires with those) Speaking of Winchester QC, I am kinda local to East Alton, IL where Olin is. Several of my current coworkers have worked there. I was a millwright contractor once at their brass works. All my coworkers who have worked there tell me they are an absolute crap company to work for if you are fairly junior on the seniority list. And hourly. Their brass works was absolutely filthy. Their idea of maintenance was just to pump more grease into whatever bearing to get a roller moving again. They killed a guy probably a year or two back with a truck load of primers: https://www.thetelegraph.com/news/article/east-alton-blast-fatality-bunker-hill-man-18167904.php Soooo….to connect all my dots, I bet there are a lot of workers there who are in DILLIGAF mode. Which affects their QC. |
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Posted: 5/29/2024 1:53:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TribunusSanGeorgii: Some more observations. The primer tray last night had some residue in it. I'm not particularly concerned, just an observation. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/408270/20240528_213139_jpg-3226219.JPG Also for those who care the laquer color is red on the inside of the primer. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/408270/20240528_213918_jpg-3226228.JPG Looking more closely at the residue, and the zoomed in photo of the still-full primer tray on a full 30" PC monitor, their lead styphnate handling is a bit sloppy. In my experience that doesn't necessarily mean anything negative with the primers themselves, I've run similar before with no issues. But yea, they have that yellow crap all over the place. On the face of some of the primer faces, built-up, in the tray cavities, etc. I've seen this before and the primers were fine. But one thing that means is if you run a progressive, plan on cleaning out your primer tubes with a dry patch every few thousand to mitigate excessive build-up in there. Because if you do build up a whole lot, and then something hangs up... |
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Posted: 5/29/2024 11:54:02 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Looking more closely at the residue, and the zoomed in photo of the still-full primer tray on a full 30" PC monitor, their lead styphnate handling is a bit sloppy. In my experience that doesn't necessarily mean anything negative with the primers themselves, I've run similar before with no issues. But yea, they have that yellow crap all over the place. On the face of some of the primer faces, built-up, in the tray cavities, etc. I've seen this before and the primers were fine. But one thing that means is if you run a progressive, plan on cleaning out your primer tubes with a dry patch every few thousand to mitigate excessive build-up in there. Because if you do build up a whole lot, and then something hangs up... Yes I had the same thought the other night as I was loading up my primer tubes. I've never done this, but seen it suggested before. I'll have to do that next time. |
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Posted: 5/29/2024 4:01:24 PM EDT
[#16]
My concern isn’t about the handing of the compound, (which should have been long done before it ever got into packaging trays), but whether loose compound means that the binder used to hold it together as a pellet in the cup was not really enough, so the pellet breaks down and crumbles. Tumble the loaded ammo, jostle it around for years, it should still be good. But if the priming compound basically didn’t have enough “glue”, it will not be as reliable or as hot of an ignition source….
I have not seen this in new primers that I can recall, but I have seen a lot of it with some old reloads I acquired. Powder when pulled was obviously bad, and many primers were losing some compound, so I dumped a bunch into a container full of oil as a precautionary measure. Kept the better looking ones to test and see how they function (or not). Actually planning to dry out and test a few of the oil soaked ones as well just to see how resilient they might be. And I also have a bag of .223 ammo I deliberately soaked in oil about 25 years ago (to test what happens) that I recently found, think they have waited long enough at this point to give it a try! |
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Posted: 5/29/2024 5:47:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tac556: My concern isn’t about the handing of the compound, (which should have been long done before it ever got into packaging trays), but whether loose compound means that the binder used to hold it together as a pellet in the cup was not really enough, so the pellet breaks down and crumbles. Tumble the loaded ammo, jostle it around for years, it should still be good. But if the priming compound basically didn’t have enough “glue”, it will not be as reliable or as hot of an ignition source…. I have not seen this in new primers that I can recall, but I have seen a lot of it with some old reloads I acquired. Powder when pulled was obviously bad, and many primers were losing some compound, so I dumped a bunch into a container full of oil as a precautionary measure. Kept the better looking ones to test and see how they function (or not). Actually planning to dry out and test a few of the oil soaked ones as well just to see how resilient they might be. And I also have a bag of .223 ammo I deliberately soaked in oil about 25 years ago (to test what happens) that I recently found, think they have waited long enough at this point to give it a try! All good points. And quite possible. My own interpretation is this was equipment residue dried out in corners and edges, working it's way along with the primers down into the packaging. But I don't actually know that. In either capacity, there's no good way to smile upon that. It means either the cups are leaking primer compound, which isn't common or good. Or their equipment handling practices are so sloppy, that factory is an explosion waiting to happen, which isn't common or good. I've seen it before in some other 2nd tier primers. They shot fine and I've not noticed a failure trend in my own usage either way. But at best, it's sloppy. For 4.5 cents a primer, that others say are running great and I'm going to be running in a 9mm Stribog run & gun - I'll still take it. But if I paid 10 cents, I'd be less forgiving. You can even see the residue on the final product loaded ammo, now that you know to look for it. Attached FileAgain, not necessarily a problem unto itself, but it's a sign of pretty sloppy practice. Perhaps the true reason these are factory seconds? I hope so, because this isn't an endorsement of that brand if this is indicative. Be aware that loose priming compound is compressed directly by the seating stem on every seating. The stem no doubt getting build-up on it too as rounds rack up. |
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Posted: 5/31/2024 4:14:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OneMoreAR]
[#18]
I bought a box of these the first time offered for $220 delivered. Still expensive compared to years past, but I'm happy to get SPP for $44/k delivered. I have a bunch of CCI and Fiocchi primers that I'll first use, so these won't be opened for a few more years.
I've been watching this thread to learn of any problems, if any they may present. But I'm optimistic they'll be good-to-go when the time comes. So, thank you to those of you who are providing reviews and photos. |
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Posted: 5/31/2024 10:33:53 PM EDT
[#19]
In for results for guys shooting DA revolvers
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Posted: 6/1/2024 2:12:08 AM EDT
[#20]
Still waiting on mine. Guessing Monday since they didn’t make it today…
Anybody try them yet with striker guns? |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/1/2024 7:38:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Tac556
I have used the primers in a Sig M17, M11 9 SMG, and a Kimber micro 9 so far and they all went bang. |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 9:26:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tac556: Still waiting on mine. Guessing Monday since they didn’t make it today… Anybody try them yet with striker guns? I still haven't been to the range yet. I have three kids 6 and under, and I'm a teacher busy with end of year stuff so it'll be at least another week or two before I can squeeze in some range time. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 6/1/2024 12:47:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: In for results for guys shooting DA revolvers I keep a small stockpile of Federal SPP for 'just in case' I ever do get a pistol that requires very light primers to function correctly but otherwise - SRP for everything is the way I go now in all of the pistols I currently have. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/2/2024 6:58:47 PM EDT
[#24]
I shot 50 of the AMR Factory 2nd primers through my stock P320 X5 today while helping to teach a class. They all went bang the first time. I'll shoot 2-300 more on Tuesday and will report back with a larger sample size.
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Posted: 6/2/2024 10:28:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Good deal. Mine showed up yesterday, 2 different lot numbers on the cases, one batch had black plastic trays sized to fit up to large size primers like in the above photos, once used blue plastic trays that look like only small primers would fit.
No evidence of any errant priming compound in the half dozen sleeves I looked at, so that is good! Going to the range on Tuesday, so should know more then. |
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Posted: 6/4/2024 9:07:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Only had time to load up 50 rds in a 9mm load, ran them through an AR-9, several Glocks, and a couple Glock clones.
No issues in any of them. I do think that the indentations from each gun were smaller than I commonly see with other primer brands, but they all fired fine. So- not as large of a sample as I wanted to do, but so far so good… |
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Posted: 6/4/2024 9:11:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tac556: Only had time to load up 50 rds in a 9mm load, ran them through an AR-9, several Glocks, and a couple Glock clones. No issues in any of them. I do think that the indentations from each gun were smaller than I commonly see with other primer brands, but they all fired fine. So- not as large of a sample as I wanted to do, but so far so good… Good to hear! 
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2024 9:19:47 PM EDT
[#28]
I shot 400 today through a stock Sig 320 XCompact in my pistol league. Every single one of them went off the first time. I didn't do any chrono work but accuracy was as expected for shots between 5-20 yards using 4.1gr titegroup behind a 124gr AMR blem. After 500, I'm sold on these.
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Posted: 6/7/2024 4:52:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Ok so good news overall.
I shot 150 of these primers today. 100 in 9mm; 50 in 45acp spp brass. 2 of the 9mm did not fire on the first strike. Taking a closer look, each of those particular two primers were not seated below flush and both fired on second strike. 9mm test guns were 2 different M&Ps (gen 1, one had a stronger striker spring other spring was stock) and two different P80s. Bad news for me is that my crimp settings got off on the Square Deal I think and I was having feeding issues.  .45 test gun was a Tisas 1911. Bottom line if these become available again I'd buy another 5k. |
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Posted: 6/7/2024 11:28:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Thanks for the report.
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USA
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Posted: 6/9/2024 11:04:52 AM EDT
[#31]
Thank you for sharing
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Posted: 6/10/2024 4:35:50 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 6/11/2024 12:25:10 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOnly a $20 increase in a just few weeks! Ugh. Glad I grabbed them last time. Not a huge increase, but going the wrong direction. Fiocchi is only $10 a k more, and we know who actually made them, and they aren’t seconds… |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 12:36:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tac556: Only a $20 increase in a just few weeks! Ugh. Glad I grabbed them last time. Not a huge increase, but going the wrong direction. Fiocchi is only $10 a k more, and we know who actually made them, and they aren’t seconds… Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tac556: Only a $20 increase in a just few weeks! Ugh. Glad I grabbed them last time. Not a huge increase, but going the wrong direction. Fiocchi is only $10 a k more, and we know who actually made them, and they aren’t seconds… |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2024 11:06:55 AM EDT
[#35]
10k on the way
 The price increase sucks but I missed out the first time and was pleasantly surprised to see some still in stock this time. Given the good range reports and potential for component scarcity in the near future I thought “why not?” |
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MA, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2024 8:16:50 PM EDT
[#36]
They had 200 packs of 5000 when they first dropped. Took 2 days to sell them all....even at the higher price
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Posted: 6/15/2024 10:31:18 AM EDT
[#37]
My second 5k of these primers are still in White River trays.
Also I didn't notice any loose priming compound/yellow powder in the one tray I opened. |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 10:35:30 AM EDT
[#38]
Oh and I shot another 50 in .45acp (Tisas 1911 and HK USP45T) with no problems.
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:14:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Back in stock. $250 shipped for 5k
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:24:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TribunusSanGeorgii: Back in stock. $250 shipped for 5k So if folks saw your *WTF post, they can find this thread. Well done. *Where To Find tacked thread at the top of the page. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:25:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Looking more closely at the residue, and the zoomed in photo of the still-full primer tray on a full 30" PC monitor, their lead styphnate handling is a bit sloppy. In my experience that doesn't necessarily mean anything negative with the primers themselves, I've run similar before with no issues. But yea, they have that yellow crap all over the place. On the face of some of the primer faces, built-up, in the tray cavities, etc. I've seen this before and the primers were fine. But one thing that means is if you run a progressive, plan on cleaning out your primer tubes with a dry patch every few thousand to mitigate excessive build-up in there. Because if you do build up a whole lot, and then something hangs up... Good to know for the RL550C that has only loaded 20 rounds so tubes are clean. |
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Posted: 8/4/2024 3:46:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OneMoreAR]
[#42]
They now have these for $230 for 5K. I bought 5k for $219 when they were first offered, but I've not yet used any of them. I'd buy more but doubt I'll ever need to again buy SPP primers.
SPP Factory 2nds |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 8/12/2024 11:55:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Wow, they had 80 earlier this morning, now down to 9. This will feed the xl750 that is on the way.
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