This is 6mm Rem with 105 gr Hornady Match bullets and H1000 powder.

According to Hodgdon's data, you can't even get enough H1000 in a 6mm Rem case to even approach max pressure. A compressed charge of 50.0 gr is still only 53,000 psi and velocity is just under 3000 fps.

This powder gave me promising results with 100 gr Interlocks so I thought it might be great with the 105 gr match bullets. With 48.0 gr I got sort of high velocity at 3063 fps for a 5-shot average and these primers seem a bit flat.

FYI if you check the Hodgdon website they no longer list the 105 gr. I asked and they said the 105 gr was replaced with the 108 gr eld and that ballistically they use the same data.

You are getting there, be careful on a hot day.

No, not to me

You are following data that you know is 10,000 psi under maximum pressure.

No brass/ejector marks at all

No those are not flattened primers

No excessive velocity


You are perfectly safe.

In a Mauser action with blade ejector, how would ejector marks manifest? Would you maybe see some brass flowing into the slot for the ejector blade?

Thanks for the reassurance. It did seem like velocity was a bit high though being 2 full grains below max but over max velocity.

How does the bolt lift feel?

Well, this action has always had a super heavy bolt so it's not really easy to tell. It was something I asked the gunsmith who rebarreled it to check but he couldn't find any issues so I just deal with it. Makes it hard to tell if cases are sticking though.

No.  Looks fine

I'm not familiar with that action, I would lean more to sticky bolt lift or extraction as an indicator if it doesn't show any kind of bolt face marks. If your bolt face has any kind of cut out at all, brass can flow into it.

I don't see where you list barrel length. My 6mm Remington had a 26.5" or 27" barrel, but 3000 fps doesn't seem excessive for a 105gr at all to me. That would be getting to the top end of 243 winchester with a 24" barrel. You should be good for another 100-150 fps with a 6mm remington. I've seen 3300 fps in mine with a 100gr SP for whatever that is worth. I don't think 3000-3100 fps is excessive in a 22" or 24" barrel.

Bingo.

Those primers look good to me. In a Mauser I'd expect to see cratering around the firing pin dent before primers flattening out.

What barrel length is your rifle? Most reference data is with a 24" test barrel.

A Mauser is always going to have a heavy bolt lift. You've got three cams you're lifting against, primary of the cocking piece against the bolt body, secondary of the bolt handle against the receiver, and a tertiary of the firing pin ramps against the internal safety collar inside the bolt body. Couple that with the heavy firing pin and heavy firing pin spring, it's just a fact of life.

It's a 24" barrel. I almost never get above book max and certainly not with less than max powder, but I guess with no other signs of pressure I won't worry about it.

The primers are flat, no doubt about that.  That's probably what prompted your question.

How much headspace was there between the cartridge (base to datum) and the same for the chamber?  If that difference in length gets to be more than just a few mils, it can contribute to primer flattening, even with low pressure.

Has the lettering of the head stamps changed in appearance (not as deep as before firing)?


Back on bolt lift, there is a difference between a heavy bolt lift due to design and a sticky bolt lift due to a swollen case (over pressure).  You'd recognize sticky bolt lift if you had it, it feels different.

This.  Looks good.

I would drop it down one full grain (1.0) and take another look thereafter.

I used the punched-out primer method when watching for pressure signs. I keep all fired brass separated based on the charges, shooting the lightest loads first and placing the fired cases in a zip lock marked with the data used. As I climb the ladder, I do the same with each batch of charges.

When I get home, I punch the primers out, starting with the lightest loads first, capturing each of them in the process. Under bright light and a magnifying glass, I inspect the spent primers for ridges forming (flattening). Using this method, you can easily witness the increased level of pressure as the powder charges increase.

I will not use any load that forms a lip on the fired primer. Your photo tells me without having to punch the primer out, that you are running hot. IMO, no cartridge needs to be run hot to be effect or accurate. Flirting with hot loads works great, until it doesn't. As already mentioned, ball powders are a pain in the ass if left sitting in the hot sun running maximum loads.

Looks fine to me.  

Also, did you say what primer you are using?

That's a good idea. I'll punch the primers and get some pics of them for closer inspection.

The writing on the head looks more or less the same on the fired vs unfired cases.

Something really just seems off here and isn't making sense. One reason I chose H1000 is that it's a lower pressure powder. I'm confused as to why it's acting a bit hot even 2 full grains below max.

Hodgdon max is 50.0 gr compressed at 2980 fps (53,300 psi). I got a 5-shot average of 3063 fps at 48.0 gr with one shot, first shot, being 3087 fps.

My headspace should be around .002". I remeasured the fired cases vs unfired and it's actually closer to .003-.004" but that's really not excessive. However, I will readjust before loading these again.

While measuring the fired cases, one wouldn't fit in the gauge, which seems odd. The other 4 were fine. Unlike the other 4, this one won't drop in all the way and gets stuck. I don't recall anything feeling stuck on extraction, but as mentioned the generally heavy bolt masks that some. I'll try and pay closer attention to the feel in the future.

@phdog

I haven't seen, have you mentioned what primers you're using? Hot or magnum primers can easily cause a recipe to act like it's two or three grains of powder more than you're using.

The most important thing is that you are comfortable with what you're loading, and 3k fps in a 6mm will kill every piece of paper on the continent dead.

I would feel comfortable going up a bit in charge with that brass coming out of one of my Mausers.

That's a good question about the primers. I actually bought this brass on the EE and it came processed and primed. I had to resize it as it was tight in my chamber, but I have no idea what primer was used. I wouldn't expect anyone to use a magnum primer in 6mm Rem but I guess it's possible.

I also tested this brass/primer combo with N160. At 42.5 gr I was at 2917 fps, which isn't too far off from Hornady's data.

Not sure why the primer would send a lower pressure powder like H1000 over the edge but not the N160.

This isn't a difficult question, there are no visible pressure signs on those cases.

To put your mind at ease, I ran this in Quickloads, first with the Hodgdon data, then with the info I could find here or what I assumed it would be.

6mm Remington 54.4 gr H2O capacity

100gr Speer BTSP 1220

2.775" OAL

50gr H1000

56,746 PSI

3114 fps in a 24" barrel



Now with what you are shooting

105gr Hornady 2458 BTHP (I'm assuming this is your bullet)

2.925" OAL (you didn't list it)

48gr H1000

51,775 psi

2965 fps in a 24"



@50grains (113% case fill) 60,539 psi and 3116 fps.


You are well within the margin of error for lot to lot variation, different primers, different case capacity, etc.

Thanks for the reassurance. I agree that this doesn't seem to be a risky or over pressure load, but it does seem to be higher pressure than expected.

My case capacity actually came out at 57.4 gr of water filled to the mouth but who knows if my method is equal to quickloads.

I seated to 2.920" so just about the same there. And yes, #2458 bullet.

In my 24" barrel I'm 100 fps above quickloads. Maybe just the unknown primer being the difference there.

Here's a close up of a couple H1000 primers vs a couple from just over minimum (41.0 gr) with H4350. Hard to get it to focus real well, but the H1000 primers on the left do look to have a bit less radius at the edge.

Both loads are 1.0 gr over minimum.

I wouldn't worry about it at all. Being off 1 grain is perfectly normal for powder lot to lot variation. I wouldn't be worried to work up to 50 grains if you continue to see no indication of excessive pressure.

The one that wouldn't fit in the case gage is more than likely the first round fired that registered 3087 fps. Expansion of the case directly above of the case head is a bad thing, it clearly represents over pressure.

You definitely are running a maximum or slightly above maximum load IMO. What sort of groups are you getting, and does it shoot better or worse with a slightly lower powder charge? Dropping in .5 grain increments will not hurt anything and you may discover a better load once you do.

I know 62,000 psi is safe in some rounds, but my goal is always the most accurate load I can develop. Game animals can't tell what the velocity was that killed them.

BTW - the four primers you knocked out looked great. What did the primer look like on the case that wouldn't fit in the gage?

You are continually giving out bad advice. De capping primers and looking at them under a magnifying glass is at best a waste of time. You already fired the rounds, you must have determined them safe at the range by then.

That is a really big leap in logic to say the one that doesn't fit in the case gauge was the 3087 fps case. On top of that, it doesn't even matter because fired cases are not supposed to fit in a case gauge! They are only for quickly checking sized, ready to go cases. They are intentionally smaller than any chamber, so you can be sure they will function in any chamber. The fact a fired case doesn't fit in them means NOTHING. We cant say it is the case head diameter, the shoulder, the body, or anything else. Realistically that case just formed better to his chamber than the others.

Yes, 62,000 psi is safe in some rounds. That's completely irrelevant since the SAMMI MAP spec for 6mm Remington is 65,000 psi, and it is safe to load to that. I too load for maximum accuracy, and the OP has not stated one time anything about his accuracy. As far as you or I know, he is getting better accuracy the higher he goes. He is still well under published data maximum. The velocity he is getting is not unreasonable. He is not getting ANY excessive pressure signs. There is no reason stated here to back off the charge at all. Even if what you say is not dangerous, it is very poor advice that you are suggesting he is at or above safe pressures.

You can find good information and pictures on what excessive pressure signs and other problems to look for in most reloading manuals.

I'm not wanting to jump into an argument between you two but I will say this.

The reason to punch the primers after firing, is to judge whether they are flat or they are mushroomed.  

Flat is one thing.  

Mushroomed is something altogether different.

OP's primers are flat, nothing more but also nothing less.  


OP asked, "Does this seem over pressure?"

Pressure is almost inaccessible to the home reloader unless you buy a pressure measurement system.  

Reading primers is just this side of witchcraft.  I'd say the load was okay but it looks like a hot load or a soft primer.

Load some up with primers with which you are familiar and shoot them.  Check those out.  Compare to the examples in this thread.  

Keep watching for sticky bolt lift.


ETA - one more thing, OP should run GRT with his specific entry data (case weights, etc).  If he is worried about safety (pressure), it's the right thing to do.  That'd be better than all of our speculations, combined.

I admit I am cautious, perhaps overly so, but I give the best advice I can. You are free to ignore all of it.

well that came on a bit strong.   But sure, I will say that almost none of my fired rounds from any gun I have at any pressure I run, tend to fit in a case-gage until I resizing them.  So I don't really use how a fired casing fits in a case-gage, as a metric of anything.

As to is OP over pressure, I wouldn't say he definitely is, at all.  OP still hasn't stated what those primers even are.  The mushrooming test isn't a bad idea, but these aren't.  I'm more interested in if any of them fell out or otherwise felt notably easier to deprime, because that can be a sign of too high pressure.

Then again, are these butter soft Federal Primers?  I'm guessing they are.

I wasn't looking to argue with him, he was giving multiple posts of bad advice, not just in my opinion, but based on published books. It is not a good idea to ignore such things.

I don't know much about GRT, I use Quickloads, which I posted info from above. I do think it kind of misguides the importance of things. No doubt we have to be aware of excessive pressure signs when shooting, that's a given. When choosing loads to make, I'm going to disagree, nothing, not Quickloads or GRT, or looking at primers with a magnifying glass is as valid or important to follow as published, tested load data. I'm not saying you have to load to max, or that you should if you see dangerous signs or other problems. I am saying that between Hodgdon's published data, and some guy looking at a primer with a magnifying glass, my trust is with Hodgdon. Where Quickloads really shines is seeing what kind of velocity you may get in different barrel lengths, different seating depths, etc.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. It's all helpful. Let me try and clarify a few things.

Hodgdon data for H1000 in 6mm Rem is interesting. They have the exact same charges of 47.0 gr to 50.0 gr for 100 gr, 105 gr (removed but I save it before they did), 107 gr and 108 gr bullets with just somewhat different velocity and pressure data. Even a max and compressed charge of 50.0 gr under the 108 gr pill is 11,700 psi below saami spec for 6 Rem. My Lyman manual goes up to 51.0 gr. for a 100 gr bullet.

1. I shot one 5-shot group with 48.0 gr of H1000. Something didn't "feel" right so I stopped. This powder should be well under max pressure even at a compressed charge and it just didn't seem right with the higher than expected velocity and somewhat flattened primers. Yeah, it's a bit like reading tea leaves, but if something seems off you stop and investigate.

2. I may have mislead regarding the stuck case. The gauge is a Wilson case gauge and the whole point is to measure the headspace of fired cases so they are supposed to fit. I have these for all cartridges I load and I can't recall a fired case ever not fitting so the fact that one didn't is odd. Maybe it was just a bad case to begin with. Who knows.

3. None of the primers were pierced, blown or overly easy to remove. But as I said, something just didn't seem right so that's why I asked.

4. the barrel is a faster 1:8 twist. I have no idea of that matters with respect to what Hodgdon measured with 1:9 twist.

The question of accuracy came up. This load didn't shoot particularly well, but I did have some good results with the exact same bottle of H1000 with the 100 gr Interlocks I was initially testing, so I had hoped it would shine with these so called match bullets.

Sweet Jesus, I'd take that right there and call it perfect. Your going to spend a lot of time and money trying to, maybe, better that combination.

FPNI




In the test gun.

I did not call anybody names or insult anyone. A guy with no pressure signs was asking if the pictures showed any pressure signs, and someone else over multiple posts was giving false information, including irrelevant info. Are we here to learn or to pat each other on the back?

Well, that was just one group so I'd need to shoot a few more to at least confirm. However, I bought the 100 gr Interlocks mainly as cheap bullet to break in the new barrel. I bought the 105 gr match bullets hoping that would prove the better choice for target and they have a bit better BC for longer ranges.

It's only a 3 shot group but in my testing of H4350 this load looked promising. It tightened up at 41.5 gr and then started to open up again 42.0 and even more at 42.5 (although still 3/4" for 5 shots) so I'm going to load up some ore at 41.5 for more testing. If it stays around 1/2" with 5 shots it might be the load I stick with.

Those 100 grain Interlocks seem to like that 2950 sweet spot.

The 105's might need a bit more speed, bump up to 50 grains h1000 in .5 grain steps see if 3150 or 3200 tightens groups up a bit. You've got room.