User Panel
Originally Posted By Tao: Main purpose will be deer at less than 120y. Maybe a yote or hog occasionally. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Tao: Originally Posted By SMC527: What will you be hunting? Main purpose will be deer at less than 120y. Maybe a yote or hog occasionally. I will be interested in the lethality you get on each of those 3 very different species |
|
Fortune is apt to favor the man who keeps his nerve
|
Originally Posted By Tao: Ready to go for tomorrow. 9-12gr of SW Blackout and CFEBLK 7-9gr Titegroup All seated to 1.825 at the ogive. Also, poop on Lee for making the little square ratchet piece in their turret press so delicate. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/90672/20220427_154834_jpg-2364179.JPG View Quote Those look great. The SW Blackout snd CFE BLK look to be in the ballpark I’d expect. I don’t have any experience with Titegroup to comment. |
|
|
Got some great/interesting results. Got all 11 shots through clean paper, and I think a couple were maybe borderline wobbling, but nothing that really sticks out.
Every single one hit exact point of aim, so I think these are gonna be tack drivers out of this encore barrel. Also.... I'm tarded. I updated the labradar and didn't change the settings back to pistol velocities, so it didn't read the first 4 shots which were the SW Blackout. They were near identical to the CFEBLK shots, so I'm assuming the velocities were very similar for each load. Pics of paper and listing the data tomorrow. Attached File |
|
|
Hits on paper, most with velocities.
https://imgur.com/a/UmlEDl9 Primers all looked good, zero signs of pressure. I didn't shoot the 9gr Titegroup load because the 8gr was already well over supersonic. Holy balls CFEBLK is dirty. Those cases are just covered in black soot, whereas the SW and Titegroup were noticeably cleaner. @Tao I suggest you delete that link as your whole Imgur account is open. Read my post below to learn how to post pics. dryflash3 That's not how imgur works. Unless a post is specifically posted to their public 'gallery', it's not visible without the direct link. 'Hidden' posts make no mention of the user that posted them. What you saw under my pics was random garbage from imgur's public gallery that they started putting at the bottom of all pages to encourage their wannabe effort to be social media. |
|
|
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
|
|
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By dryflash3: Let me teach you how to post pics from Imjur. View Quote A gallery of almost a dozen images displayed in a specific order, would otherwise clutter the thread and be a pain in the ass to scroll through. And when a hidden/non-public imgur gallery is posted, only the images are displayed, there shouldn't be anything referencing my account or other images in it. When you click on it, can you see other images in my account or my account name? |
|
|
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
|
Originally Posted By Tao: Not when I want a gallery of almost a dozen images displayed in a specific order, that would otherwise clutter the thread and be a pain in the ass to scroll through. View Quote All I can do is point out your account is open, my conscious is clear. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By dryflash3: If you want folks to see all the images you have in your account then do as you wish. All I can do is point out you account is open, my conscious is clear. View Quote There shouldn't be anything else from my account at that link. Are you talking about the garbage "gallery" posts they recently started including at the bottom? |
|
|
Originally Posted By Tao: Got some great/interesting results. Got all 11 shots through clean paper, and I think a couple were maybe borderline wobbling, but nothing that really sticks out. Every single one hit exact point of aim, so I think these are gonna be tack drivers out of this encore barrel. Also.... I'm tarded. I updated the labradar and didn't change the settings back to pistol velocities, so it didn't read the first 4 shots which were the SW Blackout. They were near identical to the CFEBLK shots, so I'm assuming the velocities were very similar for each load. Pics of paper and listing the data tomorrow. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/90672/20220428_153306_jpg-2365643.JPG View Quote Outstanding! I'm very curious to see how the CFE Blk groups. |
|
|
|
Originally Posted By Tao: Is the general advice to go with the load that gives highest velocity that's still subsonic? Now that I have some baseline numbers, what should my next steps be? View Quote As you get very close to the speed of sound, the airflow over the bullet curve can exceed the speed of sound & you'll get supersonic crack, as well as the speed of sound changing w/ air pressure & temp, so no, don't try to push it to 1099 fps. I'd shoot for under 1050 or even slower. |
|
Let's go Brandon!
|
Originally Posted By backbencher: As you get very close to the speed of sound, the airflow over the bullet curve can exceed the speed of sound & you'll get supersonic crack, as well as the speed of sound changing w/ air pressure & temp, so no, don't try to push it to 1099 fps. I'd shoot for under 1050 or even slower. View Quote Right, that's why most shoot for 1050-ish, yeah? I think I've got a good idea what will get me 1050 consistently now, so I should aim for 1050 +/- 10 going forward? What should my next batch of loads look like? |
|
|
Based on the data you gave, personally I’d load a batch to shoot with with the loads that showed about 1050 fps. See what your accuracy and std dev on velocity show.
In my mind, the load you want to find fully stabilizes the bullet, process acceptable accuracy (subjective criteria), sand is consistently subsonic. |
|
|
Based on these: https://imgur.com/a/UmlEDl9
Are there any I should avoid for stability, or am I reading into it too much and none of them are worrisome? |
|
|
Originally Posted By AeroEngineer: Based on the data you gave, personally I’d load a batch to shoot with with the loads that showed about 1050 fps. See what your accuracy and std dev on velocity show. In my mind, the load you want to find fully stabilizes the bullet, process acceptable accuracy (subjective criteria), sand is consistently subsonic. View Quote I'm thinking 3 round groups of 11.5 and 12gr of both SW Blackout and CFE BLK, and 3 rounds each of 6.5 and 7gr Titegroup. |
|
|
The less powder you use, the quieter and cheaper your loads will be.
|
|
Let's go Brandon!
|
16" barrel Encore, all seated to 1.825 at the ogive, not the cannelure.
7gr Titegroup 1046 fps 8gr Titegroup 1240 fps 9gr CFEBLK 894 fps 10gr CFEBLK 929 11gr CFEBLK 936 12gr CFEBLK 1051 9gr SW Blackout ..........no data, labradar wasn't set to pistol velocity 10gr SW Blackout ... 11gr SW Blackout ... 12gr SW Blackout ... Next step later this week, 3 round groups of 11.5 and 12gr of SW and CFE, and 3 round groups of 6.5 and 7gr Titegroup. Based on the pictures in that link above, does anyone think I shouldn't try to put these groups through my can? Originally Posted By backbencher: The less powder you use, the quieter and cheaper your loads will be. View Quote But if being used for hunting, I should try and keep them as fast as possible while still subsonic, right? |
|
|
Originally Posted By Tao: But if being used for hunting, I should try and keep them as fast as possible while still subsonic, right? View Quote You're not in rifle ballistics at this point - you're not dumping energy. You're in pistol ballistics, as long as the round penetrates as deeply as you need it to, & expands reliably, 50 or 100 fps doesn't make much of a difference. You're basically shooting a .45 ACP here. |
|
Let's go Brandon!
|
Based on UR's stuff, I'm going to shoot for 1050 fps.
https://ultimatereloader.com/2022/03/17/tested-hornady-sub-x-190gr-300-blackout/ TESTED: Hornady Sub-X 190gr 300 Blackout |
|
|
https://imgur.com/a/rN7RRvS
The 12gr groups of both CFEBLK and SW Blackout were about 0.9", and the 7gr Titegroup group was about 1.3". |
|
|
CFE-BLK looks like the winner.
I need to get some of these projectiles. |
|
|
I think I'm done with the 190gr loads. All shoot about 1.5 moa around 1050 fps. Overall 190gr winner, I'm going with 11.7gr of CFEBLK.
|
|
|
I've seen people comment that CFE Black is louder than some others did you experience that? I'm sure most everything is quiet in the longer barrels.
|
|
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles. People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird. |
|
|
My quietest loads in my suppressed bolt action 300blk uses N110 or lil gun. The n110 is definitely quieter at the same velocity as cfeblk.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By AtomicOutdoorsman: My quietest loads in my suppressed bolt action 300blk uses N110 or lil gun. The n110 is definitely quieter at the same velocity as cfeblk. View Quote In the future I'll try N110, if I ever come across some that I don't have to pay hazmat for. What charge weights do you use for 190gr pills? |
|
|
Originally Posted By Tao: In the future I'll try N110, if I ever come across some that I don't have to pay hazmat for. What charge weights do you use for 190gr pills? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Tao: Originally Posted By AtomicOutdoorsman: My quietest loads in my suppressed bolt action 300blk uses N110 or lil gun. The n110 is definitely quieter at the same velocity as cfeblk. In the future I'll try N110, if I ever come across some that I don't have to pay hazmat for. What charge weights do you use for 190gr pills? I'm using 8grs n110 with berry's 220gr pills at right around 1000fps for my 300blk bolt gun. Even cycles my AR just fine. Vihtavuori has a really good app for data, but I had to do some experimenting outside of their data to get my load. I started low and worked up |
|
|
If I get this jug of Universal, I'll work up a load using it. Still have an eye out for N110.
After shooting some more, the CFE BLK is indeed louder than the other options, so I'm going to try and find a quieter option that shoots as tight or tighter. Since 7gr of titegroup gave me just under subsonic, and Universal is slower, I'm going to try 5.5 - 6.5 gr of Universal under the 190 subx. |
|
|
Have you tired any of these in a semi auto?
Also with such small powder charge in a large case are you/have you seen any signs of inconsistencies in velocity or pressure signs? |
|
|
Originally Posted By Tao: If I get this jug of Universal, I'll work up a load using it. Still have an eye out for N110. After shooting some more, the CFE BLK is indeed louder than the other options, so I'm going to try and find a quieter option that shoots as tight or tighter. Since 7gr of titegroup gave me just under subsonic, and Universal is slower, I'm going to try 5.5 - 6.5 gr of Universal under the 190 subx. View Quote |
|
|
Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: Have you tired any of these in a semi auto? Also with such small powder charge in a large case are you/have you seen any signs of inconsistencies in velocity or pressure signs? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: Have you tired any of these in a semi auto? Also with such small powder charge in a large case are you/have you seen any signs of inconsistencies in velocity or pressure signs? No to both. I'd imagine the CFE BLK or SW blackout loads might have enough gas for a semi. They're nearly identical to known good 300 blk loads. Originally Posted By Demphna2: If using for bolt gun, try red dot, blue dot, N32C. My favorite is N105 though. All great sugestions..............pre-covid scarcity. |
|
|
Originally Posted By Tao: No to both. I'd imagine the CFE BLK or SW blackout loads might have enough gas for a semi. They're nearly identical to known good 300 blk loads. All great sugestions..............pre-covid scarcity. View Quote Unfortunately, two of demphna's listed powders are discontinued by Vihta. n32c and n105 are no longer made. For such a small sample on your velocities, I'd personally say roughly 80 fps ES is huge. If you can find Vihta N110 I would definitely try it, it is way more bulky, >25% more than the CFE BLK and you would get a much better case fill. Your charges for N110 would be less grains though, you would still likely come out ahead on case fill % and potentially ES in velocities. It is also significantly faster burning than CFE BLK so would be noticeably more quiet, in my blackout, subsonic sound difference is very noticeable going from aa1680, to IMR 4227, H110, and then N110. And it is way cleaner by miles. N105 is even more bulky than N110, but it is discontinued. Published volumetric density for CFE BLK is 0.0657, N110 is 0.0833, N105 is 0.09, alternatively in grains/cc they are blk 15.22, 110 12.0, 105 11.11. I've found published VMD's to be anywhere from essentially right on to more than 10% difference either way in the lots of powder I have. |
|
|
Originally Posted By Karl_H: Unfortunately, two of demphna's listed powders are discontinued by Vihta. n32c and n105 are no longer made. View Quote I thought the same thing, so I emailed Vihtavouri and they have no information about it being discontinued? Bought 2 more pounds of it for my 6.5" 300 blackout AR. Damn good powder. |
|
|
Originally Posted By Demphna2: https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/vihtavuori-n105-1/ I thought the same thing, so I emailed Vihtavouri and they have no information about it being discontinued? Bought 2 more pounds of it for my 6.5" 300 blackout AR. Damn good powder. View Quote edited to add: hmm, they moved n105 to the n300 series listing and it is there. Glad I looked more on their website. Can't find the discontinued notice either, used to be there and show up searching for N105 on the site. Here is Vihta's list of all there n100 powders, notice N105 is no longer listed, it was a few months ago. https://www.vihtavuori.com/powders/n100-powders/ |
|
|
Are those the subsonic expanders that are supposed to peel back like a banana?
I have some somewhere (.308) but I’ve been skeered to use ‘em. They were expensive. |
|
Not fly enough to be halal....
|
|
Originally Posted By Tao: Video by UR is a few posts above. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Tao: Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Are those the subsonic expanders that are supposed to peel back like a banana? I have some somewhere (.308) but I’ve been skeered to use ‘em. They were expensive. Video by UR is a few posts above. Ah. Different projectile. Still cool. |
|
Not fly enough to be halal....
|
Thanks, I picked up a bunch of 190 sub-x's for similar purpose last time I saw them available.
|
|
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
|
I know hornady just released more sub x projectiles on their site (190 is still up). Are they still making these 190gr projectiles? I can't find them anywhere.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: Have you tired any of these in a semi auto? Also with such small powder charge in a large case are you/have you seen any signs of inconsistencies in velocity or pressure signs? View Quote 190gr sub x is my go to in my 6.25 honey badger inspired build. Zero issues using cfe blk and w296. I had pressure spike issues with lil gun although I'm sure I could make it work if I played around with it more. If I had more to play around with i would absolutely load some up for my wbp mini jack , which is polish (and I assume a .310 bore). I just don't have enough laying around to experiment with them. If I get more ill try it out and post here. |
|
|
Originally Posted By Tao: Main purpose will be deer at less than 120y. Maybe a yote or hog occasionally. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Tao: Originally Posted By SMC527: What will you be hunting? Main purpose will be deer at less than 120y. Maybe a yote or hog occasionally. Ranging is critical shooting subs. It’s almost like archery. The bullet drop at 50, 75, 100, 125 are all different. |
|
Not fly enough to be halal....
|
My googlefu must be weak, I'm having a hard time finding recipes for 300blk (I've found 300blk recipes to be within a tenth of a grain for 7.62x39 for subs) using heavy bullets and Unique powder. I've seen everything from 6-10gr, but nothing definitive that seems to fit my use here: Universal with 190gr subx bullets.
I've got 8 pounds of Universal, which is their version of Unique. It's purported to be extremely extremely quiet for this use, so I'm excited to see just how mousefart-y I can get them. Help a brotha out? |
|
|
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
|
Have you seen this thread?
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/300-Blackout-Master-Thread/42-385765/ Some light reading, but Unique loads were mentioned recently. Can't be more specific, sorry. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
I get a plentiful supply of free 7.62x39 from work, and what I've been doing is pulling bullets and dumping powder, and reloading the primed cases.
Problem is, the projectiles are typical x39 .311, which means 308 projectiles don't seat well and sometimes just slip into the case. What I've started doing, is put the primed case in the sizing die and kissing it just enough to shrink the case mouth and neck a bit. Then, I run a .306 mandrel die through it, and get a beautiful 2 thou of neck tension. Still looking for a starting load for a 190gr projectile over Unique/Universal powder. I'm thinking I might try 6.6 - 8.4 in .2gr increments. Does that sound sane? |
|
|
Originally Posted By Tao: No to both. I'd imagine the CFE BLK or SW blackout loads might have enough gas for a semi. They're nearly identical to known good 300 blk loads. All great sugestions..............pre-covid scarcity. View Quote I recently started loading subsonic 7.62x39 using my 300BLK load data and while I didn't chronograph anything I can tell everything is easily subsonic, and after bumping my charge weight up a bit my AK runs 100% suppressed and is surprisingly quiet. 12.5gr of AA1680 with a 220gr Berry's at 2.200" OAL, with no signs of instability out of my Norinco MAK-90. |
|
|
After not seeing any available for 6+ months and my original couple boxes running low, I went ahead and bought 700 190gr subx when I found them in stock at buds.
Load development and mousefarts for lyfe! I've currently got a handful of rounds loaded up with 5.0 - 8.5 grains of Universal waiting to go as soon as the weather is nice enough. |
|
|
I'm interested to see how the new heavy sub x load does. 255 grains might do a little better.
|
|
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles. People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird. |
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.