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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 3:41:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MarkBinSC]
I came upon a Winchester 70 in 243 Win. It has a heavy varmint barrel that is 1-10 twist
I tried some 75 gr hollow point bullets and they showed some promise, around 1 inch at 100 yards. Tried some 100 grain soft point bullets and they were over 2 inches spread. Both bullets were Sierra. Does anyone have recommended bullets for this type barrel? Main use will be for target shooting and our range goes out 800 yards, so looking for the heaviest bullet that will shoot accurately. Thanks ETA I need to double check as it might be 1-10 ETA #2 I was misinformed, it is a 1-10 twist rate |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 3:48:03 PM EDT
[#1]
I know you said heavy, but try the 58gr Vmax.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 3:49:22 PM EDT
[#2]
75 grain or less. 1 in 12 is very slow for .243 6mm.
1 in 12 is slow even for a factory gun. You sure its not 1:10 |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 4:27:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Casmirblue633: 75 grain or less. 1 in 12 is very slow for .243 6mm. 1 in 12 is slow even for a factory gun. You sure its not 1:10 1:12 is fairly common for varmint guns. Some are even slower than that. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 4:45:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: John-in-austin]
[#4]
For target use, the bullet weight does not really matter. I load .243 more than any other caliber and the 58gr Vmax is an excellent bullet.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 4:57:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By John-in-austin: For target use, the bullet weight does not really matter. I load .243 more than any other caliber and the 58gr Vmax is an excellent bullet. What distances are you shooting your 243 with 58g? I have some very accurate loads for 223 with 53 gr match bullets. They are very good out to 300 yards. At 400 they seem to spread more rapidly, even with minimal winds. Thanks |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 5:51:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MarkBinSC: What distances are you shooting your 243 with 58g? I have some very accurate loads for 223 with 53 gr match bullets. They are very good out to 300 yards. At 400 they seem to spread more rapidly, even with minimal winds. Thanks I can't answer for him, but in my own case I did most of my shooting inside of 300 yards, only going to 500-600 once or twice a year in the spring or fall when the crops came off the field. I really doubt the 58gr V max is a great bullet at extended ranges, but it is about the perfect bullet for a 1:12 twist 243. If you were to be serious about long range shooting, the only logical option would be to replace your barrel. The 58gr V max is still a ton of fun informally, and it's an absolute laser beam. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 6:10:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Casmirblue633: 75 grain or less. 1 in 12 is very slow for .243 6mm. 1 in 12 is slow even for a factory gun. You sure its not 1:10 I was told it was 1/12, but I will need to check it myself to be sure. |
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Posted: 9/23/2024 6:50:26 PM EDT
[#8]
I would suggest you look at Hornady 87 gr V-Max/ 87 gr HPBT. The 65 gr V-Max will do better than the 58gr. Then consider the Berger 90gr Match Target.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 7:40:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Casmirblue633: 75 grain or less. 1 in 12 is very slow for .243 6mm. 1 in 12 is slow even for a factory gun. You sure its not 1:10 Thanks for asking this. It is a 1 in 10, not a 12. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 7:54:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#10]
I am fairly certain the Sierra packaging says 1/8" twist minimum for their .243/6mm 107 gr MatchKing.
I checked, it is printed on the outside of the box in BIG RED LETTERS. That would explain the larger groups - the bullets were unstable. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 9:04:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Hornady 95 gr SST shoot great out of my 243.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 9:33:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I am fairly certain the Sierra packaging says 1/8" twist minimum for their .243/6mm 107 gr MatchKing. I checked, it is printed on the outside of the box in BIG RED LETTERS. That would explain the larger groups - the bullets were unstable. I don't see where he said he used the 107 MatchKing. Did I miss it? |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2024 10:36:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BroadSideOfADime: I don't see where he said he used the 107 MatchKing. Did I miss it? The heavier bullets were 100 gr boat tail, soft point Sierra bullets, not 107s. The box was the older cardboard type and didn’t have any warnings about twist rates. I had heard that this might be too heavy for my rifle and today’s practice round seemed to prove that out. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/24/2024 1:01:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BroadSideOfADime: I don't see where he said he used the 107 MatchKing. Did I miss it? I mentioned it because it seems more than a little relevant, even if not an exact match. My rifle stabilizes them just fine but it is a 1/8" twist. Do you disagree about stabilization being a likely cause of OP's issue? I wonder what else it could be, short of damage to barrel or bullet. From the very first time I saw such a warning plastered on the outside of the box, I felt it must be because of situations such as the OP. Imagine ordering 500 or 1,000 and finding out your barrel cannot stabilize them. That would make for a very bad day. :-( |
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USA
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Posted: 9/24/2024 1:05:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MarkBinSC: The heavier bullets were 100 gr boat tail, soft point Sierra bullets, not 107s. The box was the older cardboard type and didn’t have any warnings about twist rates. I had heard that this might be too heavy for my rifle and today’s practice round seemed to prove that out. Mine was a cardboard box of 500 bullets. I've never seen them use anything but cardboard for the larger quantities. Is yours one of the paperboard boxes of 100? The 100 gr Tipped GameKing has that same twist rate warning. I suspect it is a bit of an oversight that it isn't on their 100 gr GameKing web page. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2024 8:13:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MarkBinSC]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Mine was a cardboard box of 500 bullets. I've never seen them use anything but cardboard for the larger quantities. Is yours one of the paperboard boxes of 100? The 100 gr Tipped GameKing has that same twist rate warning. I suspect it is a bit of an oversight that it isn't on their 100 gr GameKing web page. This box of bullets is probably 15 or 20 years old and came with the rifle. It’s the old paperboard box, no warnings about twist rate. I understand that the 1-10 is why these bullets aren’t stabilizing. Looking for people’s experience with similar rifles. There are plenty of twist rate vs bullet weight tables on the web for 223 and 30 caliber. I couldn’t find one for 6mm/243. Berger has some info but it doesn’t cover all of their 6mm bullets. |
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Posted: 9/24/2024 6:13:07 PM EDT
[#17]
I am a .243 user, and I will not claim to be an expert!
This is my projo stockpile.  Attached FileMy mainly used rifle is a Remington 700 with a factory 1/9.25. With 90 grain Nosler BT, 39 grains of IMR4350, in a necked down LC brass case and a CCI LRP it performs great. I have tried the 58 grain Vmax with different brass and powder combinations with no luck, very dismal performance. They were unloaded to another .243 owner here. Maybe he might speak to this. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2024 6:19:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GimpyPaw]
[#18]
Berger Bullets has a Twist Rate Calculator
https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/ |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2024 6:50:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MarkBinSC: This box of bullets is probably 15 or 20 years old and came with the rifle. It’s the old paperboard box, no warnings about twist rate. I understand that the 1-10 is why these bullets aren’t stabilizing. Looking for people’s experience with similar rifles. There are plenty of twist rate vs bullet weight tables on the web for 223 and 30 caliber. I couldn’t find one for 6mm/243. Berger has some info but it doesn’t cover all of their 6mm bullets. 1-10 twist is standard in .243 Win and 6mm Remington. I've had very good luck with the 100 gr Nosler Partition, the old federal Hi-Shok 100 gr, and 95 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Any 100 gr flat base spire point should do well. Then again some barrels just do whatever they want. Could be a slow barrel and you're stuck with the 85-95 grain bullets. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/24/2024 7:04:18 PM EDT
[#20]
90 grain BT
90 Grain Accubond 87 grain Vmax 80 grain Barnes TTSX |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2024 8:28:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I mentioned it because it seems more than a little relevant, even if not an exact match. My rifle stabilizes them just fine but it is a 1/8" twist. Do you disagree about stabilization being a likely cause of OP's issue? I wonder what else it could be, short of damage to barrel or bullet. From the very first time I saw such a warning plastered on the outside of the box, I felt it must be because of situations such as the OP. Imagine ordering 500 or 1,000 and finding out your barrel cannot stabilize them. That would make for a very bad day. :-( Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Originally Posted By BroadSideOfADime: I don't see where he said he used the 107 MatchKing. Did I miss it? I mentioned it because it seems more than a little relevant, even if not an exact match. My rifle stabilizes them just fine but it is a 1/8" twist. Do you disagree about stabilization being a likely cause of OP's issue? I wonder what else it could be, short of damage to barrel or bullet. From the very first time I saw such a warning plastered on the outside of the box, I felt it must be because of situations such as the OP. Imagine ordering 500 or 1,000 and finding out your barrel cannot stabilize them. That would make for a very bad day. :-( I don't claim to have any answers, but it does seem like a possibility. Gives good cause for another rifle!  The 107s or the 100 gr? |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2024 12:55:26 AM EDT
[#22]
OP didn’t provide velocity, so that’s going to be a variable (I used 2650)
Per Berger - @ 1:10 twist 0.1-1.0 = unstable 1.1-1.4 = marginal 1.5+ = fully stable 65 gn bt = fully stable 1.8 87 gn vld = marginally stable 1.28 95 gn vld = marginally stable 1.09 105 gn vld = unstable 0.97 Stay with 85 gn or less and you should be ok on a 1:10 twist. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/25/2024 12:55:40 AM EDT
[#23]
If the rifle's for hunting, you don't really need a long range bullet, right?
You don't hunt past what, ~300 yards? Just about any good quality bullet would work at that distance from a 243. Flat base bullets are generally more accurate, albeit at shorter distances. They'd be easier to stabilize in your existing barrel, too. Oh well, what would I know. I'm not a hunter. My bullet stash contains only 3 types - DTAC 115gr, SMK 107 and Berger 105. All are for match shooting, not hunting. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2024 1:12:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: If the rifle's for hunting, you don't really need a long range bullet, right? You don't hunt past what, ~300 yards? Just about any good quality bullet would work at that distance from a 243. Flat base bullets are generally more accurate, albeit at shorter distances. They'd be easier to stabilize in your existing barrel, too. Oh well, what would I know. I'm not a hunter. My bullet stash contains only 3 types - DTAC 115gr, SMK 107 and Berger 105. All are for match shooting, not hunting. He stated in the original post the main use is target shooting. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/25/2024 3:08:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fgshoot: He stated in the original post the main use is target shooting. DOH! Indeed, he did. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2024 8:17:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GimpyPaw: OP didn’t provide velocity, so that’s going to be a variable (I used 2650) Per Berger - @ 1:10 twist 0.1-1.0 = unstable 1.1-1.4 = marginal 1.5+ = fully stable 65 gn bt = fully stable 1.8 87 gn vld = marginally stable 1.28 95 gn vld = marginally stable 1.09 105 gn vld = unstable 0.97 Stay with 85 gn or less and you should be ok on a 1:10 twist. He didn't provide barrel length either, which might be helpful in determining velocity. The Savage 243's are 1:9.25 twist and my Father's example seems to shoot 95's quite well, through a 22" tube. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2024 9:46:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: He didn't provide barrel length either, which might be helpful in determining velocity. The Savage 243's are 1:9.25 twist and my Father's example seems to shoot 95's quite well, through a 22" tube. Velocity isn't going to make all that much of a difference anyway. I just plugged in the 105 gn vld and used 3000 fps. It only brought the stability up to a 1.01, right at the bottom edge of marginally stable. It's also important to remember that higher stability is more important for hunting loads than it is for target. A marginally stable bullet might still be quite accurate, but the less stable a bullet is the more likely it is to tumble rather than expand when it hits an animal. Playing around with different bullets and velocities might find something that works well in the 90 - 100 gn range, but I'm betting load development will be quicker and easier if you stay under 90 gn. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/25/2024 9:58:35 PM EDT
[#28]
When stability is marginal, it becomes important to watch out for temperature and atmospheric pressure changes. What works at your home range may not work at an "away" range.
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SC, USA
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Posted: Yesterday 5:40:58 PM EDT
[#29]
My barrel is 24 inches. I don’t think velocity is my issue, the 75s are averaging 3170 and the 100s 2925.
Thanks for the help, I’ll try some different bullets in the 70 to 85g range to see what makes my rifle happy. |
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Posted: Today 1:52:42 AM EDT
[#30]
My Sako L579 in .243 Win has the same twist rate and absolutely hates heavier bullets. The best grouping tends to happen with lighter bullets. 58 grain Match burner is fantastic and shoots repeatedly 13-18 mm 5 shot groups at 100 meters. Which is too bad, because using it for black grouse might have "interesting" results (fast, flat base, hollow point, thin jacket).
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USA
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Posted: Today 1:28:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MarkBinSC: My barrel is 24 inches. I don’t think velocity is my issue, the 75s are averaging 3170 and the 100s 2925. Thanks for the help, I’ll try some different bullets in the 70 to 85g range to see what makes my rifle happy. Before you spend money purchasing bullets which you hope will be stable, and spend more money and time reloading and shooting them, go to the Berger web site and use their Stability Calculator. You can plug in the characteristics of your candidate bullets, your rifle, your expected velocities AND your environmental conditions. The software will tell you whether your load will be stable. Multiple runs can be done to show under what environmental conditions it will be stable (i.e., summer time at the shore vs autumn up in the mountains). Do it. It's free. It might save you some time and money. |
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