I’ve always felt like processing range scrap was a PITA using my Lee pot, never felt like I was getting all the lead out of the jackets and trying to fish the jackets out without scooping molten lead back into them can be tricky.

I have a propane furnace that I routinely melt copper, brass and aluminum in. Wondering if the copper and lead in the range scrap would stay separate when both metals are molten or would they try to alloy.

I think that they would try to alloy, but I am no expert.  I did find this description of a Babbitt alloy.

Copper HardGrade 6 +50-52%35-37%11-13%0.5-1.5%360F655F


The 50-52% is lead, and the 0.5-1.5% is copper.  The other two are tin and antimony.

I do a lot of range lead smelting and casting. About 20 years ago I was shocked to find out that I had a bunch of stuff at the bottom of the pot I use to render bullets into ingots. That's when I found out about Tungsten cores.

I would quit casting if I had to smelt lead in a 20 pound pot.

There is zero reason to be getting it hot enough to melt aluminum, and you would be nuts to get it hot enough to melt copper. It best not to get it hot enough to melt zinc either, even if you aren't smelting wheel weights. When you flux, the hotter it is, the more that just burns off without doing anything.

There's really no need to over complicate smelting, which isn't even really smelting. You are just melting lead and skimming of the junk. There's nothing wrong with a big cast iron dutch oven or similar big metal pan. I probably wouldn't use aluminum, although it can work. You want something fairly thick to hold heat. You want it fairly big, for sure bigger than your 20 pound pot. The 8 quart dutch ovens are not too big, if anything they are a little small. I built my own from some large steel pipe I found. I welded a base onto the pipe. A very common DIY smelting pot is a 20 pound propane tank cut in half. Obviously be 100%, then triple check that it's empty, get the valve out, fill it with water and all that.

Any kind of heat works as long as it's big enough. You only want your lead to about 720F maximum. Campfires work fine. Grills work fine. Many, myself included use propane turkey frier, and they work phenomenal.

Lots of good info in the replies, never considered tungsten cores. Still curious if molten lead and copper would stay separate or try to alloy.

I get it that a pot over a burner is the common method but if I can make do with what I already have on hand I’d prefer not to add more clutter around the shop if I don’t have to. My forge can run through lead fast. I’ve processed roof vents with it before with amazing speed.  Once up to temp you’re basically pouring ingots as fast as you can.

The idea is if I could end up with clean ingots with a layer of copper on the top I could just remelt in the Lee pot and pull out the copper layer once the lead melts.

The melting point of lead is 1/3 the temp of copper.  When the club I belong to has indoor range cleanups, the guys that cleanout the backstop traps set up a cast iron pot on a turkey fryer burner.  I don't recall them getting the temps hot enough to melt copper.  Copper jackets would float to the top.

You guys still aren’t picking up what I’m getting at. I’m talking about turning it’s all liquid.

Yes, copper will alloy into lead. I do not know about aluminum. Some people even alloy copper intentionally, however, it's very small amounts. I'm talking like 1%. Some say 0.5% will give maximum benefits. The most I have heard of is Ideal #1 alloy, at 3%. If you use too much copper, it will not alloy correctly. I don't know the term. They won't mix right. Even at 3% it sounds like some issues can occur. Most people do this with babbit alloys since most of use don't have forges, but yes, copper will alloy into lead under certain conditions.

I do not think you could end up with a layer of copper on top.

Another smelting pot is the correct answer. It might be more clutter, but that's the best method.

That’s what I was after. Thanks.

Speed pure and simple if the chemistry worked.

There is a reason folks make their ingots using 100+ pound capacity steel and iron pots on propane burners. It gives you room to work the melt. Slotted spoons and iron ladles actually fit and you don’t slosh lead hither and yon while you stir and scrape.

It was a bit confusing…

He is melting the lead out of jacketed bullets, but not getting 100% of the lead out (because it is near impossible with how we do it).

Then he wants to use the scrap copper jackets for copper casting projects, but wants to know if the leftover lead will alloy with it, which it will.  So then he has a leaded alloy of some type.  

He was hoping it would just separate into layers, so he could eventually separate out the lead again.  Probably not workable.  Either has to be happy with leaded copper, or just scrap it out like the rest of us do…

OP- keep in mind that if you are also using jacketed projectiles from rifles, it is pretty common to see steel alloyed with copper in 7.62 NATO projectiles, and most Soviet/Russian calibers.  This is why lead core 7.62x39 will still often attract a magnet despite not having a steel core…

Isn’t there some really high  temperature point …. call it Temperature L….with molten lead where it will get so hot that it like off-gases either microscopically small lead particles or a lead vapor?

Both of which….either of which ….you inhale and give yourself lead poisoning.

At what temperature point does copper melt?

Let’s call that Temperature C.

Now, theoretically speaking,  if (Temp  C ) is  > (Temp L) , then don’t you run the risk of inhaling lead vapors on your way to getting the copper to its melting point?

As a side note….in the past when I have melted range scrap, what I thought were copper jackets were actually steel jackets that had been either copper washed or copper plated.  I think I have a 5 gallon bucket or a paint can’s worth of jackets that will stick to a magnet.

The last time I melted any wheel weights or range scrap was at least 10 years ago.  

If my memory is correct, at that time I thought I had stumbled across some new scientific discovery along the lines of “When copper gets heated to 700*F and then cooled, it becomes magnetic!"

It was much like that old yarn about amputating all 4 legs off a bull frog:  “After amputating fourth leg, bull frog suddenly became deaf!”

Then I remembered a lot of imported (former Communist bloc) ammo was most likely the cause….steel jackets with a copper wash.

It's up for debate. Apparently there can be some detectable vapor even at the higher end of normal casting temperatures, but it's so minimal it's basically nothing. Lead itself is inert, and not really dangerous. The stuff that really gets you is the lead oxide. This can form on lead just sitting there, usually as white dust. This can, and usually does form on molten lead while casting, but it's really not that big of a deal with good ventilation and some brains. If you really start to get hot, as in 1000F+ it will start to turn into yellow oxide, and that stuff is bad, bad news. As I found out, a normal Lee casting pot can produce it if you forget to put the thermocouple for your PID in the pot. I can only imagine what would happen at 2000F+ in a furnace, it would be ugly.

Lead melts in the 600-700 degree F range.  Copper is in the 1900 degrees range.  With such a difference in temperature it would be easier to separate the copper from the lead.

Lead boils (vaporizes) approximately 300°C over copper melt temperatures. Certainly something to watch, but there is a decent buffer. Not that it really matters because the OPs proposed process isn't really feasible.