With the huge price inflation we are experiencing, it seems everyone is trying to their reduce costs by using second-rate components.

I would bet half the recent posts are about "how-to" or "here's what I got" when we tried to use seconds or blems or range pick-ups or generic powders or previously unknown primer brands, primer seconds,... or whatever.

BTW, this is not a "holier than thou" post.  I have tried several things, myself.  All have been more or less unsuccessful relative to my goals.

All these experiments have lead me to the conclusion that if you want premium performance, you have to start with premium components.  Seemingly, there's no escaping that.

Even then, it's possible to screw it up.  <-- No, no, not me, I NEVER do that.  


What has been cool, is when a new supplier shows up and has a REALLY good product at a relatively low price.  I'm thinking of Rocky Mountain Reloading right now but there have been others show up, too, such as S&A and Ginex primers.  

Fall is coming soon and temperatures at the range will be more hospitable (was as high as 110 F a few weeks ago). I need to get out more and do some shooting.


ETA - adding this short list of lower cost suppliers and components which have been shown to be respectable relative to the top quality suppliers.

Rocky Mountain Reloading - 115 gr, 124 gr 9mm NUKE bullets; .224 cal bullets in 69 and 77 gr HPBT

American Reloading - pull down extruded powders label as, "similar to..."; pulled bullets

Ginex - small rifle primers are similar to CCI #41 (hotter); caveat: ever so slightly over-sized making seating a bit more difficult

Agreed. My way of saving money on bullets is to cast my own.

For revolvers mostly, .45 Colt, .38/.357 and some .45 ACP and 9mm.

I tried as hard as I could to get decent accuracy out of a .224 Lee

mold for the AR but the best I could get was 6 to 8 inches at 120 yards.

I tried sizing the bullet, powder coating, gas checks, different powder charges, etc.

Nothing seemed to help the accuracy.

At least they did function without any problems.

I've previously considered bullet making for 223.  I think it was during the Obama-era, when there were none to be had and what was available was at a very high price.

The cost for dies and press and materials (lead wire, bullet jackets) was very high (>$1-2k), so I declined.   That decision was supported by the bullets I already had in my inventory.  If I did not have those, my decision may have been different.  

As I researched bullet casting, it seemed they were more than okay for handguns.  For rifles, however, the velocity had to be kept way down, which seemed to defeat my purposes.  I don't remember the cost.  

In both cases, I was concerned about lead contamination/poisoning.

Even back then, these decisions were based mostly on cost.

I think the pull down powders from AR are actually a good deal, especially the ones that are "similar to" match grade stick powders. If you get 16 lbs of it, that's a LOT of shooting and surely you can find a good load for true match grade accuracy (if that's what you are looking for). Their pull down ball powders should be great for blaster or general purpose shooting. Very interested to hear eveyone's results with the Staball Match-like pull down powder.

As for bullets, I don't really think there is a reliable cheap match grade option, other than finding old new stock at gun shows, estate sales etc... or buying in bulk during special holiday sales. RMR is pretty good, but isn't as quite as accurate as Sierra or Berger or Hornady match bullets. TBH, if you can find the Hornady 55gr SPBT bullet in bulk, that's one of the best accuracy/value bullets going.

If I wasn't already stocked to the gills in SRP's (Wolf and Rem 7.5), I'd DEFINATELY go all in on the Ginex SRP's. I hear they are very much like CCI #41's. I should probably invest in more SPP, but I'm already into the "hoarder" status on SRP... LOL!!!


-ZA

Overall I've had perfectly fine results with pull down/surplus powder, and pulled/blem/2nds bullets as well.  I finally got a small batch of 55gr pulls from AR that had excessive marks and don't work well at all;  I guess it was bound to happen eventually.  Every other batch of 55gr I'd ever bought from them could have pretty much passed for new.  Accuracy better than the current batch of new Armscor 55gr FMJs I'm working through.

Midway 77gr 2nds: if you get the ones with the cannalure, it is not placed consistently, but doesn't seem to impact accuracy in my hands/guns/conditions.  Non-cannelure, I can't distinguish visually or through performance, from 1sts.

Ginex primers... I've used them in SR, LR.
The LR are working well.  The SR seem to be slightly oversized, are difficult to seat flush, and therefore I don't plan to buy more of those.  All are noticeably hotter than other primers for me, to the point I've changed my charge to accommodate them.  In terms of performance, they've all gone bang for me and have been fine for my needs in terms of consistency.

No way I'll pay full price for commercial ball powder or .10c/ bullet for Hornady FMJ while this stuff is available.

I guess it depends on your use case.

Ive got pulled bullets and powder from AR and can load range ammo (when all it needs to do is put holes in paper @ 50yds and smack the 12" steel @ 200yds) for about $200-225/1k.  Ive had no problems so far with any of it.

And then Ive got a stash of good, factory new, components & powder for when I want/need to be accurate.

Same thing for handgun loads as well.

If your requirements are being met, that's great!  

It's when they're not that we tend to hear about it here - How do I fix this?  I thought/hoped it would be better.

This is the perfect place to come if you're having troubles, if for no other reason than to get validation that, indeed, that "stuff" is not so great.

Then again, the people at this place can help you get the best possible results from what you have.  It's THE reason to come here, le raison d'être.



Perhaps, I don't shoot steel enough anymore.  Then again, you don't need the rifles I have to just "bang steel".  Last time I shot steel it was a 12" plate at 1,000 yards with significant wind.  It was fun!

Depends on your needs and shooting style.  

Cheaper components, pulls, etc- not what I would use for precision stuff.  

But I shoot and train a lot at more CQB type distances- so long as it hits close to my POA, we are good.  The skills I am working on are speed, presentation, use of cover, multiple target engagements, moving targets, shooting while moving, failure drills, hostage drills, etc.  Basically all useful stuff for the kind of thing I have been trained for, and am most likely to ever need.  Nowhere there is it super important that I shoot a sub MOA group.  Basically- 99% of the variability on hits will be me, not the gun or ammo.  So cheap is fine.  And even a failure to fire is OK in a training environment, as you should know malfunction clearances and transition drills, so those primer 2nds might be OK for that.  I have plenty of ammo, unlikely for my training ammo to ever pull double duty as real world defensive ammo.

All that being said- I bought fresh WIN #41 primers for doing up full power 5.56 defensive type loads…. And guess what- those lots of primers are having burn through problems as detailed in a couple threads here, damaging bolts, etc.  I would not have considered those to be sub standard primers, but I guess those batches are….  so- best laid plans and all that!  


Would I use pulls or primer 2nds in my .243 for deer, or .300 WM for elk?  No way, not unless I had nothing else available.  Those guns might get dozens of rounds thru them in a year though, while others get thousands each.

I guess the more rounds I put thru a gun, the cheaper I am willing to go on its ammo…. And I reload so I can shoot a lot more, and weather the shortages.  If that means I need to tinker with things a bit, so be it- I like tinkering almost as much as I like deals.