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Measured my 115gr blems- .355 or .3545 on the ones I checked. I can live with that.
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Interesting post, but my labor is dirt cheap, almost worthless, so I will buy new bullets for my rifle rounds.
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Preferred pronoun: MARINE
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Originally Posted By Cascade-Dude: And ... here we go. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/582146/Am_Reload_Order-3295669.png View Quote Cool. The blems I received looked OK, but post up pictures comparing the pulls and blems - I'd be interested in seeing that. The prices are crazy cheap if they're shootable, that's for sure. I ended up with 1K M193 and 1K of M855 myself. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
I've bought many thousands of pulls/blem 55gr FMJ from American Reloading with nary a problem, till last week.
The most recent batch of pulls I got came with very significant, strange pull marks on them; bigger marks than any other batch I've seen. Once the barrel has any heat in it at all, like after one mag, near 50% of these are tumbling and/or breaking up before hitting the target. The barrel surely isn't new, but I don't think it should be shot out yet, so that leaves these bullets as the issue. I will shoot again with new bullets and these pulls side by side again tomorrow to confirm it is the bullets. I'm really glad I only bought 1k of these this time, tacked onto an order as sort of an afterthought. I can burn them up in close range hoser practice. I think I'm going to stay away from pulls for a while. The blems I've got just have the occasional badly misshapen tip, which can be easily sorted out at loading time if you are feeding them by hand. |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Cool. The blems I received looked OK, but post up pictures comparing the pulls and blems - I'd be interested in seeing that. The prices are crazy cheap if they're shootable, that's for sure. I ended up with 1K M193 and 1K of M855 myself. View Quote I will do that. Thanks! |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Originally Posted By DVCNick: I've bought many thousands of pulls/blem 55gr FMJ from American Reloading with nary a problem, till last week. The most recent batch of pulls I got came with very significant, strange pull marks on them; bigger marks than any other batch I've seen. Once the barrel has any heat in it at all, like after one mag, near 50% of these are tumbling and/or breaking up before hitting the target. The barrel surely isn't new, but I don't think it should be shot out yet, so that leaves these bullets as the issue. I will shoot again with new bullets and these pulls side by side again tomorrow to confirm it is the bullets. I'm really glad I only bought 1k of these this time, tacked onto an order as sort of an afterthought. I can burn them up in close range hoser practice. I think I'm going to stay away from pulls for a while. The blems I've got just have the occasional badly misshapen tip, which can be easily sorted out at loading time if you are feeding them by hand. View Quote Thanks for the info. I'll post pics when I get them. These will all be for drills and range use. Wow, 50% is a lot. |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
I have to say it, I hate FMJ's. The reason I started reloading over 40 years ago is because I was disgusted with ball ammo accuracy. I can't see wasting my time on a reloading bench to produce 2 moa and larger groups.
Buying seconds or pulled match bullets is a better option IMO if you are trying to save money. I purchased 2100 discolored Sierra 53 grain .224" benchrest bullets earlier this year for around .10 cent each after shipping/taxes. They were produced in California, probably 50 years ago. They will be blaster ammo, unless they shoot really well. I'm not against saving money, I just want a premium product in the process. |
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol: I have to say it, I hate FMJ's. The reason I started reloading over 40 years ago is because I was disgusted with ball ammo accuracy. I can't see wasting my time on a reloading bench to produce 2 moa and larger groups. Buying seconds or pulled match bullets is a better option IMO if you are trying to save money. I purchased 2100 discolored Sierra 53 grain .224" benchrest bullets earlier this year for around .10 cent each after shipping/taxes. They were produced in California, probably 50 years ago. They will be blaster ammo, unless they shoot really well. I'm not against saving money, I just want a premium product in the process. View Quote Thanks! I hear ya and I don't necessarily disagree. Saving money is as a big part of my desire to reload as bein able to shoot better ammo. I have a very specific reason for using FMJs in my drills, though. I took three bullet jacket fragments into my right thigh earlier this summer, when I accidentally put a frangible bullet into the plywood barricade I was shooting behind. The damage to my thigh was very minor but it could have been much worse. It also turned a 5" x 1" strip of the plywood into splinters, some of which I found a good 6' away. On the same day, I had accidentally put two rounds of FMJ through the other barricade and it left nice, clean holes with no splintering. After that incident, I made a rule for myself that says FMJ only when shooting behind plywood. And since cover is everything in my personal doctrine, I plan to spend lot of time drilling and practicing from cover. As for accuracy, my toughest goal for this ammo is hitting a 9" target or small gong at 100 yards, from cover. For actual defense ammunition, I'll be using different bullets, to be sure. |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Originally Posted By borderpatrol: Buying seconds or pulled match bullets is a better option IMO if you are trying to save money. View Quote Seconds, Blemished, Pulled,... Of the various types of bullets offered, I will not buy any more "seconds". They were as bad as FMJ's any day. Plus, you don't know what you're getting until it is too late. After all, what defines what a "second" is? Add in my personal disappointment expecting something similar to Sierra 77 MK's, the whole thing ended up negative. Blemished might be different, if I was sure it was cosmetic ONLY. Pulls,... I don't know. They might be worth a small gamble but only if the price differential was SUBSTANTIAL (see below). There are many first quality bullets out there at fairly low prices (Hornady and Rocky Mountain Reloading come to mind). I don't do "blasting ammo". If I was practicing, even close range, I would want to build confidence in the reliability of my reloads, so I'd be using those, not some second rate bullet. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Seconds, Blemished, Pulled,... Of the various types of bullets offered, I will not buy any more "seconds". They were as bad as FMJ's any day. Plus, you don't know what you're getting until it is too late. After all, what defines what a "second" is? Add in my personal disappointment expecting something similar to Sierra 77 MK's, the whole thing ended up negative. Blemished might be different, if I was sure it was cosmetic ONLY. Pulls,... I don't know. They might be worth a small gamble but only if the price differential was SUBSTANTIAL (see below). There are many first quality bullets out there at fairly low prices (Hornady and Rocky Mountain Reloading come to mind). I don't do "blasting ammo". If I was practicing, even close range, I would want to build confidence in the reliability of my reloads, so I'd be using those. View Quote Fair points. Thanks. |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Yeah I was so disappointed in that last batch of new Armscor 62gr FMJ from Powder Valley that I won't be using any pulls, blems, or pulls, for rifle bullets.
It really does matter with rifle. Last outing, I had 2 batches of training ammo, because those Armscor were such crap. 100 yards & in for those, everything else where accuracy mattered, 200-400 yards, was the normal load. I can only imagine that most pulls & blems would be just as lackluster. Reloading rifle is too labor-intensive to not be producing good stuff. I've loaded thousands of rounds of FMJ that're all 1 MOA capable, with Hornady, Everglades, and even the new 62gr that AmRel used to carry (was never sure of the origin, but they shot just as well as my beloved Hornady 62gr FMJ). Can't wait to burn through this Armscor trash! |
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Originally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Thanks! I hear ya and I don't necessarily disagree. Saving money is as a big part of my desire to reload as bein able to shoot better ammo. I have a very specific reason for using FMJs in my drills, though. I took three bullet jacket fragments into my right thigh earlier this summer, when I accidentally put a frangible bullet into the plywood barricade I was shooting behind. The damage to my thigh was very minor but it could have been much worse. It also turned a 5" x 1" strip of the plywood into splinters, some of which I found a good 6' away. On the same day, I had accidentally put two rounds of FMJ through the other barricade and it left nice, clean holes with no splintering. After that incident, I made a rule for myself that says FMJ only when shooting behind plywood. And since cover is everything in my personal doctrine, I plan to spend lot of time drilling and practicing from cover. As for accuracy, my toughest goal for this ammo is hitting a 9" target or small gong at 100 yards, from cover. For actual defense ammunition, I'll be using different bullets, to be sure. View Quote We shoot steel at close quarters and fmj was coming back at 45 degrees off the targets. It was also denting the soft steel creating divots in the plates. Shooter wasn't affected, but anyone off to the side waiting for their turn would get peppered with fragments. Frangible bullets stopped all that. I'm getting around 2moa with frangible pull down bullets which is good enough when targets are less than 100 yds. Imagine you will get about the same with the FMJ you've chosen. When your shooting for time and not for groups, 2 MOA is fine. |
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Originally Posted By DVCNick: I've bought many thousands of pulls/blem 55gr FMJ from American Reloading with nary a problem, till last week. The most recent batch of pulls I got came with very significant, strange pull marks on them; bigger marks than any other batch I've seen. Once the barrel has any heat in it at all, like after one mag, near 50% of these are tumbling and/or breaking up before hitting the target. The barrel surely isn't new, but I don't think it should be shot out yet, so that leaves these bullets as the issue. I will shoot again with new bullets and these pulls side by side again tomorrow to confirm it is the bullets. I'm really glad I only bought 1k of these this time, tacked onto an order as sort of an afterthought. I can burn them up in close range hoser practice. I think I'm going to stay away from pulls for a while. The blems I've got just have the occasional badly misshapen tip, which can be easily sorted out at loading time if you are feeding them by hand. View Quote Shot about 600 new production bullets through the rifle over the weekend with no tumbling, so I definitely got a batch from American Reloading with a bit too much damage from the pulling process. Coincidentally about half of what I shot last weekend were Armscor 55gr which I've never used before, and while they were not tumbling, accuracy was not good even compared to other FMJs, side by side. Based on early returns I'll probably avoid them too in the future if there are other options at the same price. |
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Great information, everybody. I learn more every time I come to arfcom.
Mine arrive tomorrow. I'll take some pics and post them and you can all tell me how they compare to what you've been seeing. This will all be range/training ammo. For my stockpile, I'm thinking about four loads. Something in the 53-55 range, perhaps the Hornady 53 grain v-max, something in 62 grain, a 62-grain penetrator, and something in the 75-77 grain range with a frangible bullet. Though that's all extremely tentative until I get some actual reloading and testing under my belt. Thanks! |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
What's your opinion on the pulls vs blems? Kind of hard to see from the picture.
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
Originally Posted By Zhukov: What's your opinion on the pulls vs blems? Kind of hard to see from the picture. View Quote I don't have time to look at them in detail but I did see some pull marks in the handful I glanced it. I don't know how significant they are but they looked minor to me. When I get more time, I'll take some closeups of what I find. |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: What's your opinion on the pulls vs blems? Kind of hard to see from the picture. View Quote On plated pistol bullets, I don't buy the pulls. They are generally undersized from being over crimped. My reloading buddy has some of these, loading 9mm, and some of the undersized bullets dropped into the case when loading. They had to be dumped out, powder put back into case, and a fresh bullet seated. He gave them to me to melt down for the lead. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Originally Posted By dryflash3: From my experience, pull marks on jacketed bullets have little effect. Unless you want match results of course. Every day shooting, they are fine. On plated pistol bullets, I don't buy the pulls. They are generally undersized from being over crimped. My reloading buddy has some of these, loading 9mm, and some of the undersized bullets dropped into the case when loading. They had to be dumped out, powder put back into case, and a fresh bullet seated. He gave them to me to melt down for the lead. View Quote Thanks! I'll check them before I put powder in the cases. If mine are undersized, they may end up in the same place. |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Originally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Some of the pulls. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/582146/Cannalures-1-3301713.jpg View Quote Those are pretty minimal. I may order some M80s next time they show up. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Some of the pulls. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/582146/Cannalures-1-3301713.jpg View Quote |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Only measured 20 out of the 3000 out of the latest batch of 9mm 115gr FMJ blems (Ordered Aug 18) -
Diameter 0.355 to 0.3557 Weight - 113.47gr to 114.92gr |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Originally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Pulls on left, un-tumbled blems in center, tumbled blems on left. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/582146/AR-3-3302900.jpg View Quote |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Looks aren’t as important as consistency- how are the for overall length consistency? And weight?
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Great information, everybody. I learn more every time I come to arfcom. Mine arrive tomorrow. I'll take some pics and post them and you can all tell me how they compare to what you've been seeing. This will all be range/training ammo. For my stockpile, I'm thinking about four loads. Something in the 53-55 range, perhaps the Hornady 53 grain v-max, something in 62 grain, a 62-grain penetrator, and something in the 75-77 grain range with a frangible bullet. Though that's all extremely tentative until I get some actual reloading and testing under my belt. Thanks! View Quote |
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Originally Posted By Blowout: Frangible bullets weigh less and are longer than lead core bullets. The brown tip frangible AmRe sells are the same length as a 77gr SMK, but only weigh 50gr. Your 75/77gr will need to be a lead core projectile. View Quote Good info, thanks. I'm planning to use new bullets for my stockpile and the AR stuff for my range ammo. |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Originally Posted By Blowout: Frangible bullets weigh less and are longer than lead core bullets. The brown tip frangible AmRe sells are the same length as a 77gr SMK, but only weigh 50gr. Your 75/77gr will need to be a lead core projectile. View Quote Another consideration is that I have seen serious lack of stabilization with the 50 gr frangibles in slower twist rates- had a 1/9 HBAR grouping 2 feet at 50 yards with them! (They are designed for the 1/7). Not what I wanted to see shortly before heading off to an instructor class with them. They were 2-4” or so in a 1/7 A2 6520, so I ended up taking a brand new 1/7 6920 to the class instead so I could mount a red dot. (Wasn’t cheap, so I have not forgotten it). I bet they be even worse in a 1/12 twist. Just something to keep in mind when looking at loading frangibles- 1/7 only, and even then the accuracy might be “meh” at best potentially… |
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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I just ordered 1K of mixed (55gr / 62gr) pulls from American Reloading, to practice my reloading skills, and for some blasting / practice ammo. I have both A1 and A2 rifle clones, with 1-12 and 1-7 barrels, so a little for both.
They have a 25% off deal going right now, so I got these for less than $55 shipped. |
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I weighed 200 of the 1000 American Reloading 55-grain FMJ pulled bullets.
About 5% were dead on 55 grains. About 65% were within +/- 0.25 grains. About 30% were within +/- 0.5 grains. One bullet was at 0.88 grains over. One bullet was at 0.90 grains over. |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Originally Posted By Glynn863: I just ordered 1K of mixed (55gr / 62gr) pulls from American Reloading, to practice my reloading skills, and for some blasting / practice ammo. I have both A1 and A2 rifle clones, with 1-12 and 1-7 barrels, so a little for both. They have a 25% off deal going right now, so I got these for less than $55 shipped. View Quote I got my order delivered quickly. Actually got about 1,100 bullets, which leads me to believe that the orders are done by weight. However, when i sorted them, only 19 out of the lot were 62 grain. I emailed AR to ask about the mix, and they responded a couple of days later, saying, they had no way of guaranteeing ratios. I understand, but I have my own ideas about making "mixed" lots. Obviously, it's not that hard, but I honestly feel that the ratio should have been better than ~2% for the heavier bullets. So, with one of their recent sales / discounts, I ordered a 500-round lot of 62 grain pulls. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By Cascade-Dude: I weighed 200 of the 1000 American Reloading 55-grain FMJ pulled bullets. About 5% were dead on 55 grains. About 65% were within +/- 0.25 grains. About 30% were within +/- 0.5 grains. One bullet was at 0.88 grains over. One bullet was at 0.90 grains over. View Quote So all were 55 to 56 grains? Pretty good for a cheap bullet. Look at the bases. Years ago the Winchester bullet available had terrible bases, but shot ok. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By Glynn863: I got my order delivered quickly. Actually got about 1,100 bullets, which leads me to believe that the orders are done by weight. However, when i sorted them, only 19 out of the lot were 62 grain. I emailed AR to ask about the mix, and they responded a couple of days later, saying, they had no way of guaranteeing ratios. I understand, but I have my own ideas about making "mixed" lots. Obviously, it's not that hard, but I honestly feel that the ratio should have been better than ~2% for the heavier bullets. So, with one of their recent sales / discounts, I ordered a 500-round lot of 62 grain pulls. View Quote Like Forest Gump said " you never know what you are going to get". If you can't use both weights, don't order, that's what I do. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Originally Posted By tac556: Another consideration is that I have seen serious lack of stabilization with the 50 gr frangibles in slower twist rates- had a 1/9 HBAR grouping 2 feet at 50 yards with them! (They are designed for the 1/7). Not what I wanted to see shortly before heading off to an instructor class with them. They were 2-4" or so in a 1/7 A2 6520, so I ended up taking a brand new 1/7 6920 to the class instead so I could mount a red dot. (Wasn't cheap, so I have not forgotten it). I bet they be even worse in a 1/12 twist. Just something to keep in mind when looking at loading frangibles- 1/7 only, and even then the accuracy might be "meh" at best potentially View Quote I'll try these loads with a 16" 1/9 HBAR the next time out and see if the accuracy falls off... |
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Originally Posted By Blowout: I had 2" groups at 50yds when I worked up the load for the 50gr frangible from AmRe using 16" 1/8 barrels. The faster they were pushed the better the accuracy was. Haven't tried a slower twist barrel with them yet. I'll try these loads with a 16" 1/9 HBAR the next time out and see if the accuracy falls off... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Blowout: Originally Posted By tac556: Another consideration is that I have seen serious lack of stabilization with the 50 gr frangibles in slower twist rates- had a 1/9 HBAR grouping 2 feet at 50 yards with them! (They are designed for the 1/7). Not what I wanted to see shortly before heading off to an instructor class with them. They were 2-4" or so in a 1/7 A2 6520, so I ended up taking a brand new 1/7 6920 to the class instead so I could mount a red dot. (Wasn't cheap, so I have not forgotten it). I bet they be even worse in a 1/12 twist. Just something to keep in mind when looking at loading frangibles- 1/7 only, and even then the accuracy might be "meh" at best potentially I'll try these loads with a 16" 1/9 HBAR the next time out and see if the accuracy falls off... I tested some mk311 (so the same 50gr Frangible bullets) earlier in the year FWIW: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Some-mk311-Data/42-549817/ |
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Originally Posted By TGH456E: I tested some mk311 (so the same 50gr Frangible bullets) earlier in the year FWIW: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Some-mk311-Data/42-549817/ View Quote |
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Originally Posted By Blowout: Good information. I've tested with IMR4895 and 2520 so far. The IMR4895 is what I settled on but it's a heavily compressed load at 25gr with that long bullet. I have some faster powders I want to try so the load isn't so compressed... just need to get around to it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Blowout: Originally Posted By TGH456E: I tested some mk311 (so the same 50gr Frangible bullets) earlier in the year FWIW: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Some-mk311-Data/42-549817/ I THINK (and use your own common sense and knowledge to consider how accurate this might be).......... that if you look at the Barnes 55gr MPG TAC-LLRP bullet load data, it should give you some start points. It's a frangible bullet as well, and since it's 55 grains the data should be a good starting point. |
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