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Posted: 9/5/2022 10:43:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm guessing a Silmaril. First, it's the kind of dumb change of the backstory they've been doing. Second, it would explain their suspicion of Elrond. Third, it glows too much to be mithril. The silmarils are long gone by this point |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 11:55:18 AM EDT
[#2]
I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth.
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Posted: 9/5/2022 11:57:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 12:08:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: nah, there's no way it's going to be anything as mid as that. it's going to be the arkenstone The arkenstone was mined from the lonely mountain, not khazak dum. Unless every mountain has a heart that they call by the same name. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 12:21:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tolkein . He made mention of the various races appearances It's been decades since I read the books. But as I recall, he used the word "fair" a lot in his descriptions. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 12:27:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The arkenstone was mined from the lonely mountain, not khazak dum. Unless every mountain has a heart that they call by the same name. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: nah, there's no way it's going to be anything as mid as that. it's going to be the arkenstone The arkenstone was mined from the lonely mountain, not khazak dum. Unless every mountain has a heart that they call by the same name. I dought these writers care about the source material enough for that to matter |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 12:29:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances This. There's no real ambiguity about the appearance of the various peoples/races in the Lord of the Rings. Honestly, I don't think it's necessarily a huge problem to throw in some black elves or dwarves or whatever, and it doesn't fill me with outrage - but it definitely irritates me because it is dumb and unnecessary, and serves no good purpose. It's like shoving some chinese or korean actors into a story about Vikings, or some black actors into a story about Native American Inuits ... or having John Wayne play Ghengis Khan  . It's just dumb, and since there's no good reason for it in terms of story-telling, it takes me OUT of the story rather than drawing me into it.
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Posted: 9/5/2022 12:52:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. There's no real ambiguity about the appearance of the various peoples/races in the Lord of the Rings. Honestly, I don't think it's necessarily a huge problem to throw in some black elves or dwarves or whatever, and it doesn't fill me with outrage - but it definitely irritates me because it is dumb and unnecessary, and serves no good purpose. It's like shoving some chinese or korean actors into a story about Vikings, or some black actors into a story about Native American Inuits ... or having John Wayne play Ghengis Khan . It's just dumb, and since there's no good reason for it in terms of story-telling, it takes me OUT of the story rather than drawing me into it.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances This. There's no real ambiguity about the appearance of the various peoples/races in the Lord of the Rings. Honestly, I don't think it's necessarily a huge problem to throw in some black elves or dwarves or whatever, and it doesn't fill me with outrage - but it definitely irritates me because it is dumb and unnecessary, and serves no good purpose. It's like shoving some chinese or korean actors into a story about Vikings, or some black actors into a story about Native American Inuits ... or having John Wayne play Ghengis Khan . It's just dumb, and since there's no good reason for it in terms of story-telling, it takes me OUT of the story rather than drawing me into it.The plot and storyline are ok, acceptable for a shitty b-rated series. The young actors are doing their best, but they are so far from being professionals it makes everything feel fake. Dumb can be entertaining, but as you said there are so many unnecessary scenes it shows the directors were scraping the bottom of the barrel. The actors are also ugly, physically. On-screen beauty is soooo important with 4K or higher definition. We are drawn to beauty, especially natural beauty. But when there is no natural beauty we need makeup artists to help us overcome ugliness, and this didn't happen. CNN's new owners recognise this, they are evolving. When 'wokeness' comes to Middle-earth: Why some say diverse casting ruins the new 'Lord of the Rings' series |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 1:16:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 1:21:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Next episode the Harfoots sit down to a second breakfast of lembas and salted pork gravy.
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Posted: 9/5/2022 1:30:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances I don't have an issue with color of actors. I have an issue with them blatantly shoving diversity, gurl power, lgbtbbq constantly in our faces. I can over look all of that that but the story lines and bad acting I can't. Its just not a good series so far. Not sure how you can fix crappy acting. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 1:38:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Because I am a die hard Tolkien fan (<-- check the moniker), I'll probably watch the shows. I already watched the first two.
I have been re-reading the Encyclopedia of Arda to refresh my memory on what TOLKIEN said happened in the Second Age. It is a way to get the "facts" straight, quickly. If nothing else, this will prompt my re-reading of Silmarillion, Children of Hurin and other relevant works. LOTR covers a fairly narrow time span (~1 year). The Second Age is a huge time span. Add in First Age and the Two Trees and it is a stunningly large time span. P.S. - Why did they not show Ungoliant killing the Two Trees? She was notably absent. P.P.S - The "Blue Wizards" (the Istari) did not appear in Middle Earth until ~1,000 years into the Third Age, so that "meteor dude" is not an Istari. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 1:56:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because I am a die hard Tolkien fan (<-- check the moniker), I'll probably watch the shows. I already watched the first two. I have been re-reading the Encyclopedia of Arda to refresh my memory on what TOLKIEN said happened in the Second Age. It is a way to get the "facts" straight, quickly. If nothing else, this will prompt my re-reading of Silmarillion, Children of Hurin and other relevant works. LOTR covers a fairly narrow time span (~1 year). The Second Age is a huge time span. Add in First Age and the Two Trees and it is a stunningly large time span. P.S. - Why did they not show Ungoliant killing the Two Trees? She was notably absent. P.P.S - The "Blue Wizards" (the Istari) did not appear in Middle Earth until ~1,000 years into the Third Age, so that "meteor dude" is not an Istari. I'm in the same boat. It's pissed me off so much I am re-reading everything so I can understand and then back up my review of the director and the executive producers. I am going scorched earth, this is personal. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 2:00:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances There is a difference between how Tolkien described the protagonists in his books and how they were later portrayed in other media. While Tolkien portrayed Orks and other evil races as being dark, how many light coloured monsters exist in any fiction or lore? There were dark skinned races considered ‘evil’ in his books, and there were other races that were not well described in terms of skin tone. Throw in LOTR was written between 1938-1948; different period. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 2:04:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Next episode the Harfoots sit down to a second breakfast of lembas and salted pork gravy. And Galadriel gifts them a ring of power that doesn't exist yet. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 2:04:59 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 9/5/2022 2:10:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. There's no real ambiguity about the appearance of the various peoples/races in the Lord of the Rings. Honestly, I don't think it's necessarily a huge problem to throw in some black elves or dwarves or whatever, and it doesn't fill me with outrage - but it definitely irritates me because it is dumb and unnecessary, and serves no good purpose. It's like shoving some chinese or korean actors into a story about Vikings, or some black actors into a story about Native American Inuits ... or having John Wayne play Ghengis Khan . It's just dumb, and since there's no good reason for it in terms of story-telling, it takes me OUT of the story rather than drawing me into it.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances This. There's no real ambiguity about the appearance of the various peoples/races in the Lord of the Rings. Honestly, I don't think it's necessarily a huge problem to throw in some black elves or dwarves or whatever, and it doesn't fill me with outrage - but it definitely irritates me because it is dumb and unnecessary, and serves no good purpose. It's like shoving some chinese or korean actors into a story about Vikings, or some black actors into a story about Native American Inuits ... or having John Wayne play Ghengis Khan . It's just dumb, and since there's no good reason for it in terms of story-telling, it takes me OUT of the story rather than drawing me into it.We are talking about fantasy. I would have a problem if someone did a biographical movie on Patton and cast a Pakistani. I have no problem with a dark skinned dwarf. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 2:32:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because I am a die hard Tolkien fan (<-- check the moniker), I'll probably watch the shows. I already watched the first two. I have been re-reading the Encyclopedia of Arda to refresh my memory on what TOLKIEN said happened in the Second Age. It is a way to get the "facts" straight, quickly. If nothing else, this will prompt my re-reading of Silmarillion, Children of Hurin and other relevant works. LOTR covers a fairly narrow time span (~1 year). The Second Age is a huge time span. Add in First Age and the Two Trees and it is a stunningly large time span. P.S. - Why did they not show Ungoliant killing the Two Trees? She was notably absent. P.P.S - The "Blue Wizards" (the Istari) did not appear in Middle Earth until ~1,000 years into the Third Age, so that "meteor dude" is not an Istari. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 2:37:13 PM EDT
[#19]
The dwarves did not find a Silmaril in the mountain
 ...They have been made in the moon/sun at this point in the world, that was First Age happenings. The Arkenstone was found in Erebor, this show has to with Khazad-dûm (or Moria), dwarves discovered Mithril in Khazad-dûm, and also a Maiar(same being as Gandolf)...the Balrog which had been made evil by Melkor while mining for more and more Mithril. Galadriel was pretty bad ass warrior as well, helping lead the revolt of the Noldar, so not sure where the hate for her character in the show comes from, if you follow her story arc she is one of the most powerful beings in all of Middle Earth. Maybe instead of worrying about OMG a brown elf!!!!!1!!!!! Know your material better of more important things... I really like the show, and look forward to where they take it. As for meteor guy...I think it's Tom Bombadil...but am probably wrong. or could be Glroifindel...guess I'll have to watch to find out. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 2:43:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're going to lose a fuckton of money on this. How? Unless a shit ton of people cancel Amazon Prime over it, I don't see how it costs them anything other than money they agreed to put into it |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 2:53:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are talking about fantasy. I would have a problem if someone did a biographical movie on Patton and cast a Pakistani. I have no problem with a dark skinned dwarf. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances This. There's no real ambiguity about the appearance of the various peoples/races in the Lord of the Rings. Honestly, I don't think it's necessarily a huge problem to throw in some black elves or dwarves or whatever, and it doesn't fill me with outrage - but it definitely irritates me because it is dumb and unnecessary, and serves no good purpose. It's like shoving some chinese or korean actors into a story about Vikings, or some black actors into a story about Native American Inuits ... or having John Wayne play Ghengis Khan . It's just dumb, and since there's no good reason for it in terms of story-telling, it takes me OUT of the story rather than drawing me into it.We are talking about fantasy. I would have a problem if someone did a biographical movie on Patton and cast a Pakistani. I have no problem with a dark skinned dwarf. Sure, but we are not just talking about GENERIC "fantasy" - in which case I wouldn't care in the slightest. We are specifically talking about a series that has been hyped and advertised precisely because it is based on the world and mythos that TOLKIEN created. Clearly, they are trying to ride the coat-tails of the block-buster success of Tolkien "Lord of the Rings" movies (and also the shitty "Hobbit" movies, I guess), and so that is part of the entire premise of this show. That's the only part that I find irritating - deliberately changing something that's already established. Tolkien's work is well-defined, and the physical appearance of the various people and races are pretty clear in the literature. So why bother to change it? Tolkien is very clear about what Elves look like, and they are most decidedly NOT dark-skinned (as just one example). It seems silly and unnecessary, and that's what irritates me about it. If you want to make NEW fantasy literature, go crazy! There's tons of it out there, post-Tolkien, and a lot of it is spectacularly good, IMO. I have no problem with that. But, if someone is going to make a Tolkien-based show, and want to make a big deal about how it is Tolkien, then I think they should stick as closely to Tolkien's vision as they can. ... but, as I said above. I am not outraged or super-angry about it. I just find it irritating, and I think it's dumb, and it pulled me OUT of the story as opposed to drawing me in. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:11:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't mithril glow in moonlight? Or am I misremembering? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm guessing a Silmaril. First, it's the kind of dumb change of the backstory they've been doing. Second, it would explain their suspicion of Elrond. Third, it glows too much to be mithril. Doesn't mithril glow in moonlight? Or am I misremembering? IIRC, yes. Wasn't that how they saw the writing at the entrance to Moria? The writing was in mithril, and appeared in the moonlight. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:11:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, but we are not just talking about GENERIC "fantasy" - in which case I wouldn't care in the slightest. We are specifically talking about a series that has been hyped and advertised precisely because it is based on the world and mythos that TOLKIEN created. Clearly, they are trying to ride the coat-tails of the block-buster success of Tolkien "Lord of the Rings" movies (and also the shitty "Hobbit" movies, I guess), and so that is part of the entire premise of this show. That's the only part that I find irritating - deliberately changing something that's already established. Tolkien's work is well-defined, and the physical appearance of the various people and races are pretty clear in the literature. So why bother to change it? Tolkien is very clear about what Elves look like, and they are most decidedly NOT dark-skinned (as just one example). It seems silly and unnecessary, and that's what irritates me about it. If you want to make NEW fantasy literature, go crazy! There's tons of it out there, post-Tolkien, and a lot of it is spectacularly good, IMO. I have no problem with that. But, if someone is going to make a Tolkien-based show, and want to make a big deal about how it is Tolkien, then I think they should stick as closely to Tolkien's vision as they can. ... but, as I said above. I am not outraged or super-angry about it. I just find it irritating, and I think it's dumb, and it pulled me OUT of the story as opposed to drawing me in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances This. There's no real ambiguity about the appearance of the various peoples/races in the Lord of the Rings. Honestly, I don't think it's necessarily a huge problem to throw in some black elves or dwarves or whatever, and it doesn't fill me with outrage - but it definitely irritates me because it is dumb and unnecessary, and serves no good purpose. It's like shoving some chinese or korean actors into a story about Vikings, or some black actors into a story about Native American Inuits ... or having John Wayne play Ghengis Khan . It's just dumb, and since there's no good reason for it in terms of story-telling, it takes me OUT of the story rather than drawing me into it.We are talking about fantasy. I would have a problem if someone did a biographical movie on Patton and cast a Pakistani. I have no problem with a dark skinned dwarf. Sure, but we are not just talking about GENERIC "fantasy" - in which case I wouldn't care in the slightest. We are specifically talking about a series that has been hyped and advertised precisely because it is based on the world and mythos that TOLKIEN created. Clearly, they are trying to ride the coat-tails of the block-buster success of Tolkien "Lord of the Rings" movies (and also the shitty "Hobbit" movies, I guess), and so that is part of the entire premise of this show. That's the only part that I find irritating - deliberately changing something that's already established. Tolkien's work is well-defined, and the physical appearance of the various people and races are pretty clear in the literature. So why bother to change it? Tolkien is very clear about what Elves look like, and they are most decidedly NOT dark-skinned (as just one example). It seems silly and unnecessary, and that's what irritates me about it. If you want to make NEW fantasy literature, go crazy! There's tons of it out there, post-Tolkien, and a lot of it is spectacularly good, IMO. I have no problem with that. But, if someone is going to make a Tolkien-based show, and want to make a big deal about how it is Tolkien, then I think they should stick as closely to Tolkien's vision as they can. ... but, as I said above. I am not outraged or super-angry about it. I just find it irritating, and I think it's dumb, and it pulled me OUT of the story as opposed to drawing me in. Yep, that's the crux of the problem. If Bezos had taken $1B and had his company come up with it's own fantasy story franchise filled with elves, orcs, and dwarves, none of which are beings exclusive to Tolkien's works, likely no one would care about black elves or black dwarven women without beards or female warrior elves. As you mention, the problem is that Tolkien went to very extensive lengths to come up with the most minute of details for his lore as he intended to create a mythological lore for England, which it lacked, and this production doesn't adhere to any of that. I know this as even a very casual LOTR fan. It really is no different than the previously mentioned example with the Starship Troopers film. On it's own, and not called Starship Troopers, the film would be a pretty entertaining bit of campy sci fi but, it's not Starship Troopers. You can apply the same thing to Star Trek Discovery, though I would argue that doesn't even fit the bill as good generic sci fi. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:17:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. Gee. That’s a tough one. I mean what person could possibly know details about fictional characters a writer created? |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:18:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:22:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am going scorched earth, this is personal. LOL! Good one! |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:28:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I suspect this is why the Tolkien Estate was, and remains, so hesitant to sell the rights to ANY of this material, certainly to sell any more. Hollywood CANNOT be trusted to maintain the integrity of the material. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:34:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are talking about fantasy. I would have a problem if someone did a biographical movie on Patton and cast a Pakistani. I have no problem with a dark skinned dwarf. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances This. There's no real ambiguity about the appearance of the various peoples/races in the Lord of the Rings. Honestly, I don't think it's necessarily a huge problem to throw in some black elves or dwarves or whatever, and it doesn't fill me with outrage - but it definitely irritates me because it is dumb and unnecessary, and serves no good purpose. It's like shoving some chinese or korean actors into a story about Vikings, or some black actors into a story about Native American Inuits ... or having John Wayne play Ghengis Khan . It's just dumb, and since there's no good reason for it in terms of story-telling, it takes me OUT of the story rather than drawing me into it.We are talking about fantasy. I would have a problem if someone did a biographical movie on Patton and cast a Pakistani. I have no problem with a dark skinned dwarf. So... instead of Smaug the dragon, it's A-OK to make the new character a giant dickbutt, and instead of breathing fire and torching everything/everyone in its path, it shoots copious loads of semen, drowning everyone in its path (maybe the Jackass crew heard about this script, and had a similar epiphany). After all, it's just fantasy, and dragons aren't real, therefore, we can just ignore what the writer has described, and depict things however we prefer, based on feelz, right? |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:36:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The dwarves did not find a Silmaril in the mountain ...They have been made in the moon/sun at this point in the world, that was First Age happenings. The Arkenstone was found in Erebor, this show has to with Khazad-dûm (or Moria), dwarves discovered Mithril in Khazad-dûm, and also a Maiar(same being as Gandolf)...the Balrog which had been made evil by Melkor while mining for more and more Mithril. Galadriel was pretty bad ass warrior as well, helping lead the revolt of the Noldar, so not sure where the hate for her character in the show comes from, if you follow her story arc she is one of the most powerful beings in all of Middle Earth. Maybe instead of worrying about OMG a brown elf!!!!!1!!!!! Know your material better of more important things... I really like the show, and look forward to where they take it. As for meteor guy...I think it's Tom Bombadil...but am probably wrong. or could be Glroifindel...guess I'll have to watch to find out. 13er trolling actual Tolkien fans
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:36:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As for meteor guy...I think it's Tom Bombadil...but am probably wrong. or could be Glroifindel...guess I'll have to watch to find out. With the extreme license they are taking with the material, it is difficult to know who he is or what they will do. Tom Bombadil has been around a LOOOOONNNNNGGGG time. Some characterize him as the spirit of Middle Earth, itself. Tolkien said he was an enigma.(1) 'And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).' The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No. 144, dated 1954 It is unlikely to be Glorfindel, he was an elf. Glorfindel was, "a noble Elf of Gondolin, who fled the Fall of that city with Tuor and Idril and whose battle with a Balrog in the Encircling Mountains secured their escape with their son Eärendil." (2) 1. Tolkien's Letters 2. Encyclopedia of Arda Link to Encyclopedia of Arda about Glorfindel |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:39:23 PM EDT
[#31]
I'd suggest that, rather than just guessing, you re-read the Appendices. That material, plus their extrapolations, are all they can use.
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:39:48 PM EDT
[#32]
I'm waiting for the meal of Chit lens, Neckbones, Greens with Hot Sauce.
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:40:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So who is he? Your guess is as good as mine. It looks as if even HE does not know. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:41:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suspect this is why the Tolkien Estate was, and remains, so hesitant to sell the rights to ANY of this material, certainly to sell any more. Hollywood CANNOT be trusted to maintain the integrity of the material. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:
I suspect this is why the Tolkien Estate was, and remains, so hesitant to sell the rights to ANY of this material, certainly to sell any more. Hollywood CANNOT be trusted to maintain the integrity of the material. They should have included a clause saying that no characters or races could be gender/race swapped from what Tolkien wrote them as |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:42:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, but we are not just talking about GENERIC "fantasy" - in which case I wouldn't care in the slightest. We are specifically talking about a series that has been hyped and advertised precisely because it is based on the world and mythos that TOLKIEN created. Clearly, they are trying to ride the coat-tails of the block-buster success of Tolkien "Lord of the Rings" movies (and also the shitty "Hobbit" movies, I guess), and so that is part of the entire premise of this show. That's the only part that I find irritating - deliberately changing something that's already established. Tolkien's work is well-defined, and the physical appearance of the various people and races are pretty clear in the literature. So why bother to change it? Tolkien is very clear about what Elves look like, and they are most decidedly NOT dark-skinned (as just one example). It seems silly and unnecessary, and that's what irritates me about it. If you want to make NEW fantasy literature, go crazy! There's tons of it out there, post-Tolkien, and a lot of it is spectacularly good, IMO. I have no problem with that. But, if someone is going to make a Tolkien-based show, and want to make a big deal about how it is Tolkien, then I think they should stick as closely to Tolkien's vision as they can. ... but, as I said above. I am not outraged or super-angry about it. I just find it irritating, and I think it's dumb, and it pulled me OUT of the story as opposed to drawing me in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances This. There's no real ambiguity about the appearance of the various peoples/races in the Lord of the Rings. Honestly, I don't think it's necessarily a huge problem to throw in some black elves or dwarves or whatever, and it doesn't fill me with outrage - but it definitely irritates me because it is dumb and unnecessary, and serves no good purpose. It's like shoving some chinese or korean actors into a story about Vikings, or some black actors into a story about Native American Inuits ... or having John Wayne play Ghengis Khan . It's just dumb, and since there's no good reason for it in terms of story-telling, it takes me OUT of the story rather than drawing me into it.We are talking about fantasy. I would have a problem if someone did a biographical movie on Patton and cast a Pakistani. I have no problem with a dark skinned dwarf. Sure, but we are not just talking about GENERIC "fantasy" - in which case I wouldn't care in the slightest. We are specifically talking about a series that has been hyped and advertised precisely because it is based on the world and mythos that TOLKIEN created. Clearly, they are trying to ride the coat-tails of the block-buster success of Tolkien "Lord of the Rings" movies (and also the shitty "Hobbit" movies, I guess), and so that is part of the entire premise of this show. That's the only part that I find irritating - deliberately changing something that's already established. Tolkien's work is well-defined, and the physical appearance of the various people and races are pretty clear in the literature. So why bother to change it? Tolkien is very clear about what Elves look like, and they are most decidedly NOT dark-skinned (as just one example). It seems silly and unnecessary, and that's what irritates me about it. If you want to make NEW fantasy literature, go crazy! There's tons of it out there, post-Tolkien, and a lot of it is spectacularly good, IMO. I have no problem with that. But, if someone is going to make a Tolkien-based show, and want to make a big deal about how it is Tolkien, then I think they should stick as closely to Tolkien's vision as they can. ... but, as I said above. I am not outraged or super-angry about it. I just find it irritating, and I think it's dumb, and it pulled me OUT of the story as opposed to drawing me in. Exactly. As already mentioned in this thread, with a $7xx MILLION freakin budget, they could have hired GOOD fantasy writers to create their OWN damned world/story, instead of trying to ride the coattails of established work, then going, "Well, fuck all this, and fuck the longtime fans, we're just gonna change/rewrite shit however we please". What next? "Oh, we want to normalize the 'fat is healthy/beautiful' BS, so now we're casting big, fat heifers as elves. Tolkien describes them as tall, fair and slender? WTF'ever..." |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:55:51 PM EDT
[#36]
"'The Rings Of Powers' Is Not For Purists Or Racists"
 Elon Musk DESTROYS Rings of Power with Savage RANT! |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:59:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They didn't get the rights to LOTR for this. They got the rights to some of the appendices from ... it's either lotr or silmarillion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Amazon couldn’t secure the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales or any other books but LOTR and it shows. They didn't get the rights to LOTR for this. They got the rights to some of the appendices from ... it's either lotr or silmarillion. 
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Posted: 9/5/2022 3:59:52 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 9/5/2022 4:00:16 PM EDT
[#39]
They should have licensed Steven Erickson’s Malazan series.
That has all kinds of different races mixed together from various conquered nations. It has female soldiers in their military. Big, burly ones too; that should pander to the LGBTQ… crowd. Everyone one be confused for the first season or two by it but the payoff would be good. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 4:06:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just watched the first episode. I liked it. I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say the venn diagram of people that hate this and people that have a photo of white Jesus in their house is a single circle. Ever heard of a guy named Hadrian or the Islamic conquests of the Levant? No telling what people looked like in that area 2000 years ago. But if Hadrian didn’t kill them all the Muhammidans did. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 4:09:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, but we are not just talking about GENERIC "fantasy" - in which case I wouldn't care in the slightest. We are specifically talking about a series that has been hyped and advertised precisely because it is based on the world and mythos that TOLKIEN created. Clearly, they are trying to ride the coat-tails of the block-buster success of Tolkien "Lord of the Rings" movies (and also the shitty "Hobbit" movies, I guess), and so that is part of the entire premise of this show. That's the only part that I find irritating - deliberately changing something that's already established. Tolkien's work is well-defined, and the physical appearance of the various people and races are pretty clear in the literature. So why bother to change it? Tolkien is very clear about what Elves look like, and they are most decidedly NOT dark-skinned (as just one example). It seems silly and unnecessary, and that's what irritates me about it. If you want to make NEW fantasy literature, go crazy! There's tons of it out there, post-Tolkien, and a lot of it is spectacularly good, IMO. I have no problem with that. But, if someone is going to make a Tolkien-based show, and want to make a big deal about how it is Tolkien, then I think they should stick as closely to Tolkien's vision as they can. ... but, as I said above. I am not outraged or super-angry about it. I just find it irritating, and I think it's dumb, and it pulled me OUT of the story as opposed to drawing me in. I'm actually enjoying the show the same way I enjoy the Starship Troopers movie. In my mind neither has anything to do with the source material, they're just fun little adventures. So what if they named their characters after Tolkien characters. I'm guilty of that too. Back when I was playing Icewind Dale and had to name six freakin characters there were lots of "Finrods" and "Fingons" and "Arwens." 2nd Edition Elves had the best multi-class options, and I needed names for all of them. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 4:11:14 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder if Musk has to have his Amazon account under a pseudonym or use a staffer's, Bezos seems like the kind of shit that would ban him out of spite. Kharn |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 4:13:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Galadriel was pretty bad ass warrior as well, helping lead the revolt of the Noldar, so not sure where the hate for her character in the show comes from, if you follow her story arc she is one of the most powerful beings in all of Middle Earth. Where in any of the books does it say Galadriel physically fought in any battles? |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 4:20:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Watch the first 2 episodes.... Well I tried to. Didn't make it all the way through the 2nd.
Anyway, I figured I give it a fair shot at least. Disappointing. I could get past the race bending, but they have changed characters basic nature and personalities. 
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Posted: 9/5/2022 4:40:16 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 9/5/2022 4:47:19 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 9/5/2022 4:54:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Watch the first 2 episodes.... Well I tried to. Didn't make it all the way through the 2nd. Anyway, I figured I give it a fair shot at least. Disappointing. I could get past the race bending, but they have changed characters basic nature and personalities. https://i.ibb.co/s6Nydg6/wokien.jpg  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 5:00:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So... instead of Smaug the dragon, it's A-OK to make the new character a giant dickbutt, and instead of breathing fire and torching everything/everyone in its path, it shoots copious loads of semen, drowning everyone in its path (maybe the Jackass crew heard about this script, and had a similar epiphany). After all, it's just fantasy, and dragons aren't real, therefore, we can just ignore what the writer has described, and depict things however we prefer, based on feelz, right? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am liking it so far. Who knows what colour folks were in Middle Earth. Tolkein……. He made mention of the various races appearances This. There's no real ambiguity about the appearance of the various peoples/races in the Lord of the Rings. Honestly, I don't think it's necessarily a huge problem to throw in some black elves or dwarves or whatever, and it doesn't fill me with outrage - but it definitely irritates me because it is dumb and unnecessary, and serves no good purpose. It's like shoving some chinese or korean actors into a story about Vikings, or some black actors into a story about Native American Inuits ... or having John Wayne play Ghengis Khan . It's just dumb, and since there's no good reason for it in terms of story-telling, it takes me OUT of the story rather than drawing me into it.We are talking about fantasy. I would have a problem if someone did a biographical movie on Patton and cast a Pakistani. I have no problem with a dark skinned dwarf. So... instead of Smaug the dragon, it's A-OK to make the new character a giant dickbutt, and instead of breathing fire and torching everything/everyone in its path, it shoots copious loads of semen, drowning everyone in its path (maybe the Jackass crew heard about this script, and had a similar epiphany). After all, it's just fantasy, and dragons aren't real, therefore, we can just ignore what the writer has described, and depict things however we prefer, based on feelz, right? Ok, the hue of a halfing or a dwarf is equivalent to a dragon shooting fire or semen. Got it! |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 5:16:13 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 9/5/2022 5:25:19 PM EDT
[#50]
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