08/08/08 war (Russia-Georgia conflict): fourth anniversary - Page 3

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Posted: 8/12/2012 6:01:56 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
LOL

The Russians barely managed to defeat a force that was only a fraction the size of their own. They couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

Russia should stick to producing vodka, prostitutes and suicidal authors. They're the only things they do well.

Errr they did pretty good actually. The invading force was smaller than the defending force,They did it quickly with the 2nd stringers and proved the point they wanted to make. This shifted the power in the whole region to Russian favor and exposed waning US power abroad. Meanwhile after 10 years in the M.E., blood and money we are seeing the power shift to many of the same people we have been fighting.

News to me.

Posted: 8/12/2012 6:27:22 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

...

I wonder what would happen in the event Moldova were to reunite with Romania, which officially would make Transistria part of Romania, which is a NATO country. It would be almost a sort of paradox, i.e. Russian troops occupying part of a NATO country. I wonder if the Romanians could invoke Article 5 for such a thing. It's interesting to ponder, although the movement to reunite Moldova with Romania seems to have waned considerably, last I checked.

The Pan Romanian movement will have a hard time distancing itself from the stigma of the early '90s.

Much of their leaders were essentially fascists and treated anyone opposed as could thus be expected. The return and rise to power of the new Moldovan Communist Party (PCRM) was the result. It was only with the growth of the EU that Moldovans even began to believe their could be an alternative to the two extremes, but even as European integration went from an espoused goal of the Communists, to the unifying political goal of the opposition, those in that opposition associated with the early 1990s pan-Romanian nationalism remain highly polarizing and marginalized.

Posted: 8/12/2012 6:40:43 AM EDT

[#3]

I like that our resident com-bloc lover thinks Russia could beat us in a strictly conventional war.

You bringing all of your made in 1983 trucks to fight us with?

All 300 of your flyable Mig-29's that have pilots with no combat experience?

Okay. Come get some.

There is a reason Russia is pissed about the defense shield going up in Europe, it's the last thing they have to rattle with.

Posted: 8/12/2012 8:37:17 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
I was in the Baltics acting as an Observer-Controller for the Erna Raid exercise in Estonia when this went down.

A friend of mine has an uncle who is with the Russian Foreign Ministry, and he was spouting his mouth off that Russia is resurgent, and has an official policy to take back all the peripheral nations on its borders. They shut him up and ordered him to not make anymore public appearances or statements.

They're using a multi-faceted approach of varying techniques, and the Georgian War was an example of the most overtly aggressive one.

So was the way they killed the Polish Presidential delegation that they invited to come to Russia so Russia could "apologize" for the Katyn massacre. The Polish delegation's bodies are still rotting in the forest last I heard, after Russian troops "secured" the crash scene Russian style, i.e. looting all the bodies of their credit cards and valuables, removing the CDR and CPL, and letting mother Russia's nature do the rest...

Lots of the same old tactics and strategies that have been used for millennia, like ethnic Russians moved into border nations en masse, especially prisoners and career criminals who they don't want internally, but love to export, followed by MICEing the national command authority, penetrating or re-warming the cold war assets they had for paid informants, useful idiots, peace activists, animal rights groups, communist parties masquerading as social democrats, news organizations, schools, businesses, and so forth.

I'm seeing a huge influx of Russians into Finland over the past 6 years, and lots of them are fighting age males with prison ink, military experience, well-built, huffing cheap cigarettes like it's cool. The main TV "news" in Finland, YLE, is a communist-owned apparatus that spews anti-capitalist, anti-US BS ad vomitum like gospel truth, and the Finns eat it up hook, line, and sinker.

Russians are purchasing land around every Finnish military base possible, scouting HLZ's, DZ's, getting jobs, going on welfare, building caches of weapons, smuggling narcotics, and bringing an underground illicit economy up a few notches from its relatively covert status that was in-place a few years ago.

Meanwhile, the Finnish Parliament is talking about how much defense spending they can cut, since they're sending real cash to bail out failing Eurozone partners a thousand kilometers away, who don't know or care about Finland.

Russia is very concerned about Finland's talks of joining NATO, so they have ramped up bigtime to preempt a Finnish move in that direction, seeing as Finland would be the most ideal location for BMD platforms. None of the Finns really see it coming, but I do. Maybe a few reservists could start to see the writing on the wall, but everyone is under the assumption that peace in Europe is a foregone conclusion into perpetuity.

History says otherwise...

The European Union was the best thing the commies ever got rolling. ( The best thing from their perspective, let me add.)

Posted: 8/12/2012 8:40:20 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
God, if we could keep it conventional. We'd stomp the ever living dogshit out of Russia.

There is the reason the whole Western Civilization has viewed Russia as a cancer to the world.

We we could have given the Georgians a bunch of Javs.

We gave the Georgians better support than Javelins.

Posted: 8/12/2012 8:42:15 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was in the Baltics acting as an Observer-Controller for the Erna Raid exercise in Estonia when this went down.

A friend of mine has an uncle who is with the Russian Foreign Ministry, and he was spouting his mouth off that Russia is resurgent, and has an official policy to take back all the peripheral nations on its borders. They shut him up and ordered him to not make anymore public appearances or statements.

They're using a multi-faceted approach of varying techniques, and the Georgian War was an example of the most overtly aggressive one.

So was the way they killed the Polish Presidential delegation that they invited to come to Russia so Russia could "apologize" for the Katyn massacre. The Polish delegation's bodies are still rotting in the forest last I heard, after Russian troops "secured" the crash scene Russian style, i.e. looting all the bodies of their credit cards and valuables, removing the CDR and CPL, and letting mother Russia's nature do the rest...

Lots of the same old tactics and strategies that have been used for millennia, like ethnic Russians moved into border nations en masse, especially prisoners and career criminals who they don't want internally, but love to export, followed by MICEing the national command authority, penetrating or re-warming the cold war assets they had for paid informants, useful idiots, peace activists, animal rights groups, communist parties masquerading as social democrats, news organizations, schools, businesses, and so forth.

I'm seeing a huge influx of Russians into Finland over the past 6 years, and lots of them are fighting age males with prison ink, military experience, well-built, huffing cheap cigarettes like it's cool. The main TV "news" in Finland, YLE, is a communist-owned apparatus that spews anti-capitalist, anti-US BS ad vomitum like gospel truth, and the Finns eat it up hook, line, and sinker.

Russians are purchasing land around every Finnish military base possible, scouting HLZ's, DZ's, getting jobs, going on welfare, building caches of weapons, smuggling narcotics, and bringing an underground illicit economy up a few notches from its relatively covert status that was in-place a few years ago.

Meanwhile, the Finnish Parliament is talking about how much defense spending they can cut, since they're sending real cash to bail out failing Eurozone partners a thousand kilometers away, who don't know or care about Finland.

Russia is very concerned about Finland's talks of joining NATO, so they have ramped up bigtime to preempt a Finnish move in that direction, seeing as Finland would be the most ideal location for BMD platforms. None of the Finns really see it coming, but I do. Maybe a few reservists could start to see the writing on the wall, but everyone is under the assumption that peace in Europe is a foregone conclusion into perpetuity.

History says otherwise...

The European Union was the best thing the commies ever got rolling. ( The best thing from their perspective, let me add.)

BS

Posted: 8/12/2012 8:45:43 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
LOL like the EU would do anything to provoke Russia?. The report mentioned above is pure propaganda put out to placate the Russian Bear.

I hope Georgia has rearmed. The new president might assist in that effort.

Georgia has definatley rearmed.

Their Bushmaster rifles are absolute shit though. The quality control on them are lacking. They are buying up parts kits at the cyclic rate to repair them, but a lot of orders keep getting "delayed". The tried the commercial route, but ITAR put a big damper on that, with lots of delays and approved orders never being allowed to be sent. At least, this is what I was told by their military when we trained them.

Posted: 8/12/2012 8:49:56 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
God, if we could keep it conventional. We'd stomp the ever living dogshit out of Russia.

Maybe in your dreams.
In fact, you can't sustain war against the another superpower.

There is the reason the whole Western Civilization has viewed Russia as a cancer to the world.

Ohh.. ohh.
So called Western Civilization is being afraid of competition with Russia. Western Civilization envies Russia's resources and potential.

We we could have given the Georgians a bunch of Javs.

Javs = javellins ?
You might think it's game changer? ROFL.

We would beat the fucking brakes off of Russia, if it ever came down to it. Their military has no morale, no morals, and depends on beating the hell out of an area with massive artillary because their ground troops are inept, poorly trained, led by alcoholic sots, and scared of their own shadows.

Posted: 8/12/2012 8:53:58 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Why are they wearing the USMC uniform?

The Georgian? Because they fucking dig us, man.

Posted: 8/12/2012 8:56:45 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why are they wearing the USMC uniform?

Georgian Army was in the process of switching from something similar to our old woodland uniforms and Russian stuff to MARPAT, the pattern being what they adopted as part of their modernization programme. I think by the time of the war only reservists were still using the older uniforms.

And, if I remember correctly, they had quite a few troops in Iraq at the time?

Just about half their army. They mysteriously re-appeared back in their own country hours after the start of hostilities. They literally walked out of combat in one country, and into combat in their own country. Plane touched down, inserted mags, and marched into combat. That caught the Russians off balance.

Posted: 8/12/2012 8:57:38 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted the wrong guy. Thois is in response to the dude that said the Russians did very well.

BS.
The Russians got the shit kicked out of them.

Posted: 8/12/2012 9:17:37 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was in the Baltics acting as an Observer-Controller for the Erna Raid exercise in Estonia when this went down.

A friend of mine has an uncle who is with the Russian Foreign Ministry, and he was spouting his mouth off that Russia is resurgent, and has an official policy to take back all the peripheral nations on its borders. They shut him up and ordered him to not make anymore public appearances or statements.

They're using a multi-faceted approach of varying techniques, and the Georgian War was an example of the most overtly aggressive one.

So was the way they killed the Polish Presidential delegation that they invited to come to Russia so Russia could "apologize" for the Katyn massacre. The Polish delegation's bodies are still rotting in the forest last I heard, after Russian troops "secured" the crash scene Russian style, i.e. looting all the bodies of their credit cards and valuables, removing the CDR and CPL, and letting mother Russia's nature do the rest...

Lots of the same old tactics and strategies that have been used for millennia, like ethnic Russians moved into border nations en masse, especially prisoners and career criminals who they don't want internally, but love to export, followed by MICEing the national command authority, penetrating or re-warming the cold war assets they had for paid informants, useful idiots, peace activists, animal rights groups, communist parties masquerading as social democrats, news organizations, schools, businesses, and so forth.

I'm seeing a huge influx of Russians into Finland over the past 6 years, and lots of them are fighting age males with prison ink, military experience, well-built, huffing cheap cigarettes like it's cool. The main TV "news" in Finland, YLE, is a communist-owned apparatus that spews anti-capitalist, anti-US BS ad vomitum like gospel truth, and the Finns eat it up hook, line, and sinker.

Russians are purchasing land around every Finnish military base possible, scouting HLZ's, DZ's, getting jobs, going on welfare, building caches of weapons, smuggling narcotics, and bringing an underground illicit economy up a few notches from its relatively covert status that was in-place a few years ago.

Meanwhile, the Finnish Parliament is talking about how much defense spending they can cut, since they're sending real cash to bail out failing Eurozone partners a thousand kilometers away, who don't know or care about Finland.

Russia is very concerned about Finland's talks of joining NATO, so they have ramped up bigtime to preempt a Finnish move in that direction, seeing as Finland would be the most ideal location for BMD platforms. None of the Finns really see it coming, but I do. Maybe a few reservists could start to see the writing on the wall, but everyone is under the assumption that peace in Europe is a foregone conclusion into perpetuity.

History says otherwise...

The European Union was the best thing the commies ever got rolling. ( The best thing from their perspective, let me add.)

BS

It amazes me how certain far right talking points manage to get established on both sides of the pond.

Posted: 8/12/2012 9:32:28 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was in the Baltics acting as an Observer-Controller for the Erna Raid exercise in Estonia when this went down.

A friend of mine has an uncle who is with the Russian Foreign Ministry, and he was spouting his mouth off that Russia is resurgent, and has an official policy to take back all the peripheral nations on its borders. They shut him up and ordered him to not make anymore public appearances or statements.

They're using a multi-faceted approach of varying techniques, and the Georgian War was an example of the most overtly aggressive one.

So was the way they killed the Polish Presidential delegation that they invited to come to Russia so Russia could "apologize" for the Katyn massacre. The Polish delegation's bodies are still rotting in the forest last I heard, after Russian troops "secured" the crash scene Russian style, i.e. looting all the bodies of their credit cards and valuables, removing the CDR and CPL, and letting mother Russia's nature do the rest...

Lots of the same old tactics and strategies that have been used for millennia, like ethnic Russians moved into border nations en masse, especially prisoners and career criminals who they don't want internally, but love to export, followed by MICEing the national command authority, penetrating or re-warming the cold war assets they had for paid informants, useful idiots, peace activists, animal rights groups, communist parties masquerading as social democrats, news organizations, schools, businesses, and so forth.

I'm seeing a huge influx of Russians into Finland over the past 6 years, and lots of them are fighting age males with prison ink, military experience, well-built, huffing cheap cigarettes like it's cool. The main TV "news" in Finland, YLE, is a communist-owned apparatus that spews anti-capitalist, anti-US BS ad vomitum like gospel truth, and the Finns eat it up hook, line, and sinker.

Russians are purchasing land around every Finnish military base possible, scouting HLZ's, DZ's, getting jobs, going on welfare, building caches of weapons, smuggling narcotics, and bringing an underground illicit economy up a few notches from its relatively covert status that was in-place a few years ago.

Meanwhile, the Finnish Parliament is talking about how much defense spending they can cut, since they're sending real cash to bail out failing Eurozone partners a thousand kilometers away, who don't know or care about Finland.

Russia is very concerned about Finland's talks of joining NATO, so they have ramped up bigtime to preempt a Finnish move in that direction, seeing as Finland would be the most ideal location for BMD platforms. None of the Finns really see it coming, but I do. Maybe a few reservists could start to see the writing on the wall, but everyone is under the assumption that peace in Europe is a foregone conclusion into perpetuity.

History says otherwise...

The European Union was the best thing the commies ever got rolling. ( The best thing from their perspective, let me add.)

I agree.

Anyone who thinks the Polish delegation wasn't assassinated hadn't been following Polish and Russian relations at the time. We also know that the commies in East Europe are spewing anti-USA crap hardcore and they've been making serious gains in elections there moving Eastern Europe farther away from the USA over the last eight years.

President Putin is a killer and a dictator in all, but name. Meanwhile Americans over here honestly think that Russia is no longer a national security threat.

It's absurd and it's an idea planted by and reinforced by our ultra left-wing media in this country who haven't reported on or paid any attention whatsoever to what has been going on with Russia. That despite the fact that Russia has seen many assassinations of members of their press over there.

Posted: 8/12/2012 9:39:56 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

It amazes me how certain far right talking points manage to get established on both sides of the pond.

If you're referring the left wing nature of the EU, I'm inclined to agree that it became a means for many politicians formerly associated with the Communists to rehabilitate themselves in a politically acceptable fashion, while retaining their ideal of service to a bureaucratic communist version of the Holy Roman Empire.

At no point has the EU really shown itself to be committed to the Trans-Atlantic alliance, willing to accept democratic outcomes when they go against the EU, or much else positive, in my mind.

Posted: 8/12/2012 9:58:51 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

It amazes me how certain far right talking points manage to get established on both sides of the pond.

If you're referring the left wing nature of the EU, I'm inclined to agree that it became a means for many politicians formerly associated with the Communists to rehabilitate themselves in a politically acceptable fashion, while retaining their ideal of service to a bureaucratic communist version of the Holy Roman Empire.

At no point has the EU really shown itself to be committed to the Trans-Atlantic alliance, willing to accept democratic outcomes when they go against the EU, or much else positive, in my mind.

The EU definitely has some obnoxious nanny state big government aspects to it - all governments do. The far right's attempt to dismiss the whole thing as a commie plot is patently absurd, however. The Copenhagen criteria are far more an assertion of neoliberal ideology, than Marxism.

http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/international/enlargement/criteria/index_en.htm

Posted: 8/12/2012 10:04:36 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was in the Baltics acting as an Observer-Controller for the Erna Raid exercise in Estonia when this went down.

A friend of mine has an uncle who is with the Russian Foreign Ministry, and he was spouting his mouth off that Russia is resurgent, and has an official policy to take back all the peripheral nations on its borders. They shut him up and ordered him to not make anymore public appearances or statements.

They're using a multi-faceted approach of varying techniques, and the Georgian War was an example of the most overtly aggressive one.

So was the way they killed the Polish Presidential delegation that they invited to come to Russia so Russia could "apologize" for the Katyn massacre. The Polish delegation's bodies are still rotting in the forest last I heard, after Russian troops "secured" the crash scene Russian style, i.e. looting all the bodies of their credit cards and valuables, removing the CDR and CPL, and letting mother Russia's nature do the rest...

Lots of the same old tactics and strategies that have been used for millennia, like ethnic Russians moved into border nations en masse, especially prisoners and career criminals who they don't want internally, but love to export, followed by MICEing the national command authority, penetrating or re-warming the cold war assets they had for paid informants, useful idiots, peace activists, animal rights groups, communist parties masquerading as social democrats, news organizations, schools, businesses, and so forth.

I'm seeing a huge influx of Russians into Finland over the past 6 years, and lots of them are fighting age males with prison ink, military experience, well-built, huffing cheap cigarettes like it's cool. The main TV "news" in Finland, YLE, is a communist-owned apparatus that spews anti-capitalist, anti-US BS ad vomitum like gospel truth, and the Finns eat it up hook, line, and sinker.

Russians are purchasing land around every Finnish military base possible, scouting HLZ's, DZ's, getting jobs, going on welfare, building caches of weapons, smuggling narcotics, and bringing an underground illicit economy up a few notches from its relatively covert status that was in-place a few years ago.

Meanwhile, the Finnish Parliament is talking about how much defense spending they can cut, since they're sending real cash to bail out failing Eurozone partners a thousand kilometers away, who don't know or care about Finland.

Russia is very concerned about Finland's talks of joining NATO, so they have ramped up bigtime to preempt a Finnish move in that direction, seeing as Finland would be the most ideal location for BMD platforms. None of the Finns really see it coming, but I do. Maybe a few reservists could start to see the writing on the wall, but everyone is under the assumption that peace in Europe is a foregone conclusion into perpetuity.

History says otherwise...

The European Union was the best thing the commies ever got rolling. ( The best thing from their perspective, let me add.)

I agree.

Anyone who thinks the Polish delegation wasn't assassinated hadn't been following Polish and Russian relations at the time. We also know that the commies in East Europe are spewing anti-USA crap hardcore and they've been making serious gains in elections there moving Eastern Europe farther away from the USA over the last eight years.

President Putin is a killer and a dictator in all, but name. Meanwhile Americans over here honestly think that Russia is no longer a national security threat.

It's absurd and it's an idea planted by and reinforced by our ultra left-wing media in this country who haven't reported on or paid any attention whatsoever to what has been going on with Russia. That despite the fact that Russia has seen many assassinations of members of their press over there.

Ironic that now we have rants about Russian realpolitik in a thread where people are embracing Solzhenitsyn as the voice of anti-Communism. Were he alive today, he'd probably be a huge Putin supporter, or upset the wasn't enough of a hardliner. http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2008/08/05/toward_end_solzhenitsyn_embraced_putins_russia/

Far too many people here seem unwilling to separate Communist ideology from Russian nationalist ideology. Russian nationalism brought the USSR down on its knees.

EDIT: I seem to have mixed this thread and the Air Force thread in my head, though the point still stands.

Posted: 8/12/2012 10:19:54 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

EDIT: I seem to have mixed this thread and the Air Force thread in my head, though the point still stands.

And people think that Sylvan is angry

Posted: 8/12/2012 10:24:26 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

The EU definitely has some obnoxious nanny state big government aspects to it - all governments do. The far right's attempt to dismiss the whole thing as a commie plot is patently absurd, however. The Copenhagen criteria are far more an assertion of neoliberal ideology, than Marxism.

http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/international/enlargement/criteria/index_en.htm

I don't know if its more representative of a Commie plot, or just a politicians keen eye of knowing what to say to retain their position, which Communists of all stripes are masters at.

I've just always been shocked at the willingness of European societies to accept former Communists into the political mainstream. I just don't know if that says more about the European societies, or the former Communist politicians.

Posted: 8/12/2012 11:12:20 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was in the Baltics acting as an Observer-Controller for the Erna Raid exercise in Estonia when this went down.

A friend of mine has an uncle who is with the Russian Foreign Ministry, and he was spouting his mouth off that Russia is resurgent, and has an official policy to take back all the peripheral nations on its borders. They shut him up and ordered him to not make anymore public appearances or statements.

They're using a multi-faceted approach of varying techniques, and the Georgian War was an example of the most overtly aggressive one.

So was the way they killed the Polish Presidential delegation that they invited to come to Russia so Russia could "apologize" for the Katyn massacre. The Polish delegation's bodies are still rotting in the forest last I heard, after Russian troops "secured" the crash scene Russian style, i.e. looting all the bodies of their credit cards and valuables, removing the CDR and CPL, and letting mother Russia's nature do the rest...

Lots of the same old tactics and strategies that have been used for millennia, like ethnic Russians moved into border nations en masse, especially prisoners and career criminals who they don't want internally, but love to export, followed by MICEing the national command authority, penetrating or re-warming the cold war assets they had for paid informants, useful idiots, peace activists, animal rights groups, communist parties masquerading as social democrats, news organizations, schools, businesses, and so forth.

I'm seeing a huge influx of Russians into Finland over the past 6 years, and lots of them are fighting age males with prison ink, military experience, well-built, huffing cheap cigarettes like it's cool. The main TV "news" in Finland, YLE, is a communist-owned apparatus that spews anti-capitalist, anti-US BS ad vomitum like gospel truth, and the Finns eat it up hook, line, and sinker.

Russians are purchasing land around every Finnish military base possible, scouting HLZ's, DZ's, getting jobs, going on welfare, building caches of weapons, smuggling narcotics, and bringing an underground illicit economy up a few notches from its relatively covert status that was in-place a few years ago.

Meanwhile, the Finnish Parliament is talking about how much defense spending they can cut, since they're sending real cash to bail out failing Eurozone partners a thousand kilometers away, who don't know or care about Finland.

Russia is very concerned about Finland's talks of joining NATO, so they have ramped up bigtime to preempt a Finnish move in that direction, seeing as Finland would be the most ideal location for BMD platforms. None of the Finns really see it coming, but I do. Maybe a few reservists could start to see the writing on the wall, but everyone is under the assumption that peace in Europe is a foregone conclusion into perpetuity.

History says otherwise...

The European Union was the best thing the commies ever got rolling. ( The best thing from their perspective, let me add.)

I agree.

Anyone who thinks the Polish delegation wasn't assassinated hadn't been following Polish and Russian relations at the time. We also know that the commies in East Europe are spewing anti-USA crap hardcore and they've been making serious gains in elections there moving Eastern Europe farther away from the USA over the last eight years.

President Putin is a killer and a dictator in all, but name. Meanwhile Americans over here honestly think that Russia is no longer a national security threat.

It's absurd and it's an idea planted by and reinforced by our ultra left-wing media in this country who haven't reported on or paid any attention whatsoever to what has been going on with Russia. That despite the fact that Russia has seen many assassinations of members of their press over there.

Ironic that now we have rants about Russian realpolitik in a thread where people are embracing Solzhenitsyn as the voice of anti-Communism. Were he alive today, he'd probably be a huge Putin supporter, or upset the wasn't enough of a hardliner. http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2008/08/05/toward_end_solzhenitsyn_embraced_putins_russia/

Far too many people here seem unwilling to separate Communist ideology from Russian nationalist ideology. Russian nationalism brought the USSR down on its knees.

EDIT: I seem to have mixed this thread and the Air Force thread in my head, though the point still stands.

Solzhenitsyn can eat a bag of dicks. He was a crazy old man in the end. His work was good for exposing the real face of communism to the world, nothing else.

Posted: 8/12/2012 11:17:08 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted the wrong guy. Thois is in response to the dude that said the Russians did very well.

BS.
The Russians got the shit kicked out of them.

Oh sorry I thought we were talking about the Russia Georgia conflict on planet earth not fucking Bizzaro World where the Georgians didn't play right into Putin's hands get curbstomped and run for thier lives by a 2nd tier Russian army and a gaggle of Frog-foots. The war where Bush came right to the aid of an allies actively helping us in Iraq thus showing the rest of Bizzaro World you don't have to worry about Russia kicking the shit out of you too, causing Russia to lose influence in all it's old Sov states.

Posted: 8/12/2012 11:20:22 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted the wrong guy. Thois is in response to the dude that said the Russians did very well.

BS.
The Russians got the shit kicked out of them.

Oh sorry I thought we were talking about the Russia Georgia conflict on planet earth not fucking Bizzaro World where the Georgians didn't play right into Putin's hands get curbstomped and run for thier lives by a 2nd tier Russian army and a gaggle of Frog-foots. The war where Bush came right to the aid of an allies actively helping us in Iraq thus showing the rest of Bizzaro World you don't have to worry about Russia kicking the shit out of you too and causing Russia to lose influence in all it's old Sov states.

Posted: 8/12/2012 11:23:36 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted the wrong guy. Thois is in response to the dude that said the Russians did very well.

BS.
The Russians got the shit kicked out of them.

Oh sorry I thought we were talking about the Russia Georgia conflict on planet earth not fucking Bizzaro World where the Georgians didn't play right into Putin's hands get curbstomped and run for thier lives by a 2nd tier Russian army and a gaggle of Frog-foots. The war where Bush came right to the aid of an allies actively helping us in Iraq thus showing the rest of Bizzaro World you don't have to worry about Russia kicking the shit out of you too and causing Russia to lose influence in all it's old Sov states.

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=23873

To the pain!

Posted: 8/12/2012 11:24:31 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted the wrong guy. Thois is in response to the dude that said the Russians did very well.

BS.
The Russians got the shit kicked out of them.

Oh sorry I thought we were talking about the Russia Georgia conflict on planet earth not fucking Bizzaro World where the Georgians didn't play right into Putin's hands get curbstomped and run for thier lives by a 2nd tier Russian army and a gaggle of Frog-foots. The war where Bush came right to the aid of an allies actively helping us in Iraq thus showing the rest of Bizzaro World you don't have to worry about Russia kicking the shit out of you too, causing Russia to lose influence in all it's old Sov states.

Seeing as I personally know folks , US and Georgian, who were involved in that little dust up, I'll go with them.

Now, if you want to rant and rave, get some coherent thoughts together, then come back here and explain. Until then, stick with your dying MOS.

Posted: 8/12/2012 11:29:25 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why are they wearing the USMC uniform?

Georgian Army was in the process of switching from something similar to our old woodland uniforms and Russian stuff to MARPAT, the pattern being what they adopted as part of their modernization programme. I think by the time of the war only reservists were still using the older uniforms.

And, if I remember correctly, they had quite a few troops in Iraq at the time?

Just about half their army. They mysteriously re-appeared back in their own country hours after the start of hostilities. They literally walked out of combat in one country, and into combat in their own country. Plane touched down, inserted mags, and marched into combat. That caught the Russians off balance.

They got there too late to affect the outcome, since the Russians chose not to press their advantage. The U.S. Air Force brought them in. It was no surprise or secret.

Posted: 8/12/2012 11:32:20 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why are they wearing the USMC uniform?

Georgian Army was in the process of switching from something similar to our old woodland uniforms and Russian stuff to MARPAT, the pattern being what they adopted as part of their modernization programme. I think by the time of the war only reservists were still using the older uniforms.

And, if I remember correctly, they had quite a few troops in Iraq at the time?

Just about half their army. They mysteriously re-appeared back in their own country hours after the start of hostilities. They literally walked out of combat in one country, and into combat in their own country. Plane touched down, inserted mags, and marched into combat. That caught the Russians off balance.

They got there too late to affect the outcome, since the Russians chose not to press their advantage. The U.S. Air Force brought them in. It was no surprise or secret.

The Russians were definately taken by surprise by it happening. There are many reasons the Russians chose not to press that advantage, and the fact that the Georgian Army re-appeared was part of it.

Posted: 8/12/2012 11:41:01 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why are they wearing the USMC uniform?

Georgian Army was in the process of switching from something similar to our old woodland uniforms and Russian stuff to MARPAT, the pattern being what they adopted as part of their modernization programme. I think by the time of the war only reservists were still using the older uniforms.

And, if I remember correctly, they had quite a few troops in Iraq at the time?

Just about half their army. They mysteriously re-appeared back in their own country hours after the start of hostilities. They literally walked out of combat in one country, and into combat in their own country. Plane touched down, inserted mags, and marched into combat. That caught the Russians off balance.

They got there too late to affect the outcome, since the Russians chose not to press their advantage. The U.S. Air Force brought them in. It was no surprise or secret.

The Russians were definately taken by surprise by it happening. There are many reasons the Russians chose not to press that advantage, and the fact that the Georgian Army re-appeared was part of it.

Lol! Do tell us how they scared off and beat the shit out of the Russians after they where encircled, had their cities and airfields sacked, hardware and drones captured, and ethnicly cleasened out of South Ossetia.

Posted: 8/12/2012 11:42:39 AM EDT

[#27]

So in the future, would it put Georgia in a better position to base their ground forces on a heavily tube/rocket artillery based mobile force with pre-planned fires? All

of it self-propelled with shoot-and-move capability and Swiss like civil defense planning with de-centralized stocks of ammo all around the country?

Posted: 8/12/2012 11:42:53 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I was in the Baltics acting as an Observer-Controller for the Erna Raid exercise in Estonia when this went down.

A friend of mine has an uncle who is with the Russian Foreign Ministry, and he was spouting his mouth off that Russia is resurgent, and has an official policy to take back all the peripheral nations on its borders. They shut him up and ordered him to not make anymore public appearances or statements.

They're using a multi-faceted approach of varying techniques, and the Georgian War was an example of the most overtly aggressive one.

So was the way they killed the Polish Presidential delegation that they invited to come to Russia so Russia could "apologize" for the Katyn massacre. The Polish delegation's bodies are still rotting in the forest last I heard, after Russian troops "secured" the crash scene Russian style, i.e. looting all the bodies of their credit cards and valuables, removing the CDR and CPL, and letting mother Russia's nature do the rest...

Lots of the same old tactics and strategies that have been used for millennia, like ethnic Russians moved into border nations en masse, especially prisoners and career criminals who they don't want internally, but love to export, followed by MICEing the national command authority, penetrating or re-warming the cold war assets they had for paid informants, useful idiots, peace activists, animal rights groups, communist parties masquerading as social democrats, news organizations, schools, businesses, and so forth.

I'm seeing a huge influx of Russians into Finland over the past 6 years, and lots of them are fighting age males with prison ink, military experience, well-built, huffing cheap cigarettes like it's cool. The main TV "news" in Finland, YLE, is a communist-owned apparatus that spews anti-capitalist, anti-US BS ad vomitum like gospel truth, and the Finns eat it up hook, line, and sinker.

Russians are purchasing land around every Finnish military base possible, scouting HLZ's, DZ's, getting jobs, going on welfare, building caches of weapons, smuggling narcotics, and bringing an underground illicit economy up a few notches from its relatively covert status that was in-place a few years ago.

Meanwhile, the Finnish Parliament is talking about how much defense spending they can cut, since they're sending real cash to bail out failing Eurozone partners a thousand kilometers away, who don't know or care about Finland.

Russia is very concerned about Finland's talks of joining NATO, so they have ramped up bigtime to preempt a Finnish move in that direction, seeing as Finland would be the most ideal location for BMD platforms. None of the Finns really see it coming, but I do. Maybe a few reservists could start to see the writing on the wall, but everyone is under the assumption that peace in Europe is a foregone conclusion into perpetuity.

History says otherwise...

I have difficulty identifying in your observations the reality which I experience on a daily basis. But of course I would say such a thing, as I've been brainwashed by communist media.

Posted: 8/12/2012 12:00:16 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why are they wearing the USMC uniform?

Georgian Army was in the process of switching from something similar to our old woodland uniforms and Russian stuff to MARPAT, the pattern being what they adopted as part of their modernization programme. I think by the time of the war only reservists were still using the older uniforms.

And, if I remember correctly, they had quite a few troops in Iraq at the time?

Just about half their army. They mysteriously re-appeared back in their own country hours after the start of hostilities. They literally walked out of combat in one country, and into combat in their own country. Plane touched down, inserted mags, and marched into combat. That caught the Russians off balance.

They got there too late to affect the outcome, since the Russians chose not to press their advantage. The U.S. Air Force brought them in. It was no surprise or secret.

The Russians were definately taken by surprise by it happening. There are many reasons the Russians chose not to press that advantage, and the fact that the Georgian Army re-appeared was part of it.

Lol! Do tell us how they scared off and beat the shit out of the Russians after they where encircled, had their cities and airfields sacked, hardware and drones captured, and ethnicly cleasened out of South Ossetia.

Taking lots of replaceable "stuff" does not equate to "winning". Sure, it looks good on camera for people who don't know what they are talking about, but the Georgian adventure was a fucking beat down for the Russians, politically and militarily.

Yeah, they dropped a shit ton of bombs, but bombing sheep, and I mean that literally, they were bombing livestock, as a way to " show your might" is fucking stupid, and is the rage of an impotent man.

The Russian ground forces were badly mauled in that little fiasco. The best portion and men of the Georgian army were elsewhere. What was left were some dudes who had just rotated out of Iraq, their shitbirds, and "politically unreliable" commanders. And they still acquitted themselves fairly well. The Georgians limited themselves because they just haven't grasped logistics yet. Even on their home turf it is difficult for them to re-supply in contact. They are working on that, though.

Civilian Georgians own a shit ton of firearms, and they fucked the Russians up with them. One of the most effective civilian fighting forces was the Georgian mobsters. They paid a heavy toll, but whipped the shit out of the Reds. Whether you want to believe it or not is your own choice, I'm laying out the reality. .

Posted: 8/12/2012 12:04:23 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why are they wearing the USMC uniform?

Georgian Army was in the process of switching from something similar to our old woodland uniforms and Russian stuff to MARPAT, the pattern being what they adopted as part of their modernization programme. I think by the time of the war only reservists were still using the older uniforms.

And, if I remember correctly, they had quite a few troops in Iraq at the time?

Just about half their army. They mysteriously re-appeared back in their own country hours after the start of hostilities. They literally walked out of combat in one country, and into combat in their own country. Plane touched down, inserted mags, and marched into combat. That caught the Russians off balance.

They got there too late to affect the outcome, since the Russians chose not to press their advantage. The U.S. Air Force brought them in. It was no surprise or secret.

The Russians were definately taken by surprise by it happening. There are many reasons the Russians chose not to press that advantage, and the fact that the Georgian Army re-appeared was part of it.

Lol! Do tell us how they scared off and beat the shit out of the Russians after they where encircled, had their cities and airfields sacked, hardware and drones captured, and ethnicly cleasened out of South Ossetia.

Taking lots of replaceable "stuff" does not equate to "winning". Sure, it looks good on camera for people who don't know what they are talking about, but the Georgian adventure was a fucking beat down for the Russians, politically and militarily.

Yeah, they dropped a shit ton of bombs, but bombing sheep, and I mean that literally, they were bombing livestock, as a way to " show your might" is fucking stupid, and is the rage of an impotent man.

The Russian ground forces were badly mauled in that little fiasco. The best portion and men of the Georgian army were elsewhere. What was left were some dudes who had just rotated out of Iraq, their shitbirds, and "politically unreliable" commanders. And they still acquitted themselves fairly well. The Georgians limited themselves because they just haven't grasped logistics yet. Even on their home turf it is difficult for them to re-supply in contact. They are working on that, though.

Civilian Georgians own a shit ton of firearms, and they fucked the Russians up with them. One of the most effective civilian fighting forces was the Georgian mobsters. They paid a heavy toll, but whipped the shit out of the Reds. Whether you want to believe it or not is your own choice, I'm laying out the reality. .

It was the international equivalent of a guy who is picked on at work coming home to beat on his dog, or a neighbors kid who stepped on his lawn. Yet, in doing so, the dog or kid got a big bite out of his leg, and it's getting infected.

The funny thing is, even most Russians know this. Arfcom always seems to offer us a chance to hear the minority voices that get drowned out in normal discussions.

Posted: 8/12/2012 12:06:02 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
So in the future, would it put Georgia in a better position to base their ground forces on a heavily tube/rocket artillery based mobile force with pre-planned fires? All

of it self-propelled with shoot-and-move capability and Swiss like civil defense planning with de-centralized stocks of ammo all around the country?

No, their economy can't handle that just yet. Most of Georgia is lightly populated, and can be used to trade space for time. There are lot's of little tiny villages, but nothing criitcal outside of the 3-4 major cities ( and their major is not our version of major), and nothing crucial outside the capital.

However, I'm pretty sure they have remedies in place from lessons learned.

Posted: 8/12/2012 12:09:18 PM EDT

[#32]