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Posted: 1/1/2021 5:44:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look, ma, I learnt me sumthin' t'day! I've never heard of the Hezi or the Magal! What I wanna know is is why IMI hasn't been exporting them to us??? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/10/4a/b2/104ab2f723b3ca97093287f5d5918df5.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Israelis had a Galil in .30 carbine and a bullpup, the Hezi SM-1 Look, ma, I learnt me sumthin' t'day! I've never heard of the Hezi or the Magal! What I wanna know is is why IMI hasn't been exporting them to us??? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/10/4a/b2/104ab2f723b3ca97093287f5d5918df5.jpg They used it because military/police had a lot of .30 carbine stockpiles. Was for police. These days they're pretty much on 5.56 now. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 5:46:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess you didn't click the link. It went through 42" of water, roughly 21" gelatin equivalent after the frozen cloth. The question was rhetorical. Penetration is a component of terminal ballistics but does not factor in the wound channel. I'm sure you didn't need me to say that. It's really immaterial whether the bullets actually bounced off the Chinese coats, or whether the performance of the round was degraded to the point that they did not perform sufficiently in combat, and they believed they failed to penetrate. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 5:52:47 PM EDT
[#3]
The 30 carbine was a victim of being ahead of it's time. It was a PDW before there was such a thing. Look at the 5.7 johnson. Over 30 years before the 5.7x28.
To bad it didn't catch on. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Spitfire |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 6:06:46 PM EDT
[#4]
I had a Vietnam Marine Corps vet tell me he hated the M1 Carbine because "it was so weak, I could see the bullets in the air as I shot them".
Crazy the amount of garbage legend around this bullet. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 6:08:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The question was rhetorical. Penetration is a component of terminal ballistics but does not factor in the wound channel. I'm sure you didn't need me to say that. It's really immaterial whether the bullets actually bounced off the Chinese coats, or whether the performance of the round was degraded to the point that they did not perform sufficiently in combat, and they believed they failed to penetrate. Who needs vests or plates when you can just buy a Chinese coat; after all bullets just bounce off of them. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 6:26:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a 7-1/2" barreled Blackhawk in .30 Carbine. Even out of the long barrel the muzzle blast was intolerable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Tons of fun out of a Blackhawk revolver--accurate, surprisingly mild recoil, and LOUD.  Really loud! I had a 7-1/2" barreled Blackhawk in .30 Carbine. Even out of the long barrel the muzzle blast was intolerable. I don't see why. I loaded 14 grains of 2400 under the 110gr bullets. In my .44 mag it was 22 grains of the same powder under the 240gr SWC. Just a boom. I love the .30 carbine. It was my first center fire rifle and still one of my favorite to shoot. Admittedly, it is a very limited use cartridge when compared to the .223. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 6:48:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone have a factory equivalent reload that they have personal experience with and would recommend? 15.0 grs. of H110/W296 and a 110 gr. bullet will duplicate the original load. I've also loaded 14.0 grs. of VV110 and it too duplicates, or maybe slightly exceeds, the original load. This powder is extruded and takes up more space so has to be compressed. Accurate's data for it's 4100 powder shows loads that exceed the original by as much as 200 fps, although they're a bit over 40,000 psi. I have a pound of 4100 on order and as soon as it arrives I will do a little testing with it. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 7:27:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for the referral-I've got sgammo twice in that deal.
When I questioned the 30 carbinr, my fil laughed. He seemed very confident in it's abilities. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 7:37:14 PM EDT
[#9]
An one here have an Olympic ar in 30 carbine?
I need dimensions on the lower. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 7:38:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 15.0 grs. of H110/W296 and a 110 gr. bullet will duplicate the original load. I've also loaded 14.0 grs. of VV110 and it too duplicates, or maybe slightly exceeds, the original load. This powder is extruded and takes up more space so has to be compressed. Accurate's data for it's 4100 powder shows loads that exceed the original by as much as 200 fps, although they're a bit over 40,000 psi. I have a pound of 4100 on order and as soon as it arrives I will do a little testing with it. One of the issues with reloading .30 carbine is that they're not too tolerant of variance in loads - the min and the max with H110 are pretty much the same. And the brass isn't really straight-walled, meaning it has a slight taper to it, so you still have to trim that stuff once in a while while reloading for it to run reliably. A good friend of mine ran a .30 carbine at 3gun for a long while. For short-range hose 'em stages it was outrageous fun. He'd hit stuff at 350 yards but you could not tell until the "tink!" came back from the steel plate. He got tired of having to hit something a couple of times so people heard it and called the hit, so he's on an AR now, but those were the days... |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 7:46:55 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 1/1/2021 8:00:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: The 30 carbine was a victim of being ahead of it's time. It was a PDW before there was such a thing. Look at the 5.7 johnson. Over 30 years before the 5.7x28. To bad it didn't catch on. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Spitfire I think that's it more then anything else... While I'm not a fan of the M-1 Carbine, I can see it's utility. But if were being really honest, you could built a light weight AR that does everything the M-1 Carbine can do, be lighter, have more punch and range and better ergonomics. Like 1911's, they had there time in the sun, but there are better options. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 8:07:25 PM EDT
[#13]
The cartridge was overtaken by developments. It was superior to contemporary handgun cartridges but the new intermediate assault rifle cartridges could do everything it could do and more.
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Posted: 1/1/2021 8:12:06 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 1/1/2021 8:46:18 PM EDT
[#15]
For people that don't shoot much at all, I've noticed being able operate an M1 carbine is easier than an AR. Mainly because you have a simple "bolt handle" that directly let's you see into a big open chamber.
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Posted: 1/1/2021 9:29:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: why is the .30 Carbine pistol so loud? during centerfire matches I would not position next to the guy with the TContender in .30 Carbine during one of my gun classes just recently everyone in the class flinched at a guy's first shot with an AMT semi auto pistol in .30 Carbine Ruger SA .30 Carbine is a tin rattler Why so loud even compared to a .357? Higher pressure with smaller bore and slow burning powders all adds up to higher pressure at the muzzle. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 9:33:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Right idea
Poor execution that was also limited by technology (at the time) and ammo. Mistake #1 = no happy switch, later corrected in the M2. Mistake #2 = 110gr was too heavy, but they didn't know that at the time. 90gr would have been better by the FPS up quite a bit. Also, WW2 military = FMJ only It ended up acting like a semi-auto only, elongated, .30 cal sub gun. The worst of all worlds. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 9:45:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right idea Poor execution that was also limited by technology (at the time) and ammo. Mistake #1 = no happy switch, later corrected in the M2. Mistake #2 = 110gr was too heavy, but they didn't know that at the time. 90gr would have been better by the FPS up quite a bit. Also, WW2 military = FMJ only It ended up acting like a semi-auto only, elongated, .30 cal sub gun. The worst of all worlds. The idea was for the Carbine to be select fire from the start. The Army didn't like that idea because the Carbine was suppose to be for support troops. It was felt they didn't need select fire weapons. By the time the M-2 was issued it was too late to have a major effect on the war |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 10:11:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The idea was for the Carbine to be select fire from the start. The Army didn't like that idea because the Carbine was suppose to be for support troops. It was felt they didn't need select fire weapons. By the time the M-2 was issued it was too late to have a major effect on the war What if I said, I agree that it was a better as a semi auto carbine for its intended purpose. I reliable 20-30 round magazine should have been prioritized. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 10:24:57 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We should come up with a modern PCC design for the .30 Carbine then bombard some manufacturer to build it. Combine these two.   Someone was a producing a kit that attached side plates to the sides of the action, when they were attached it pretty much looked like a modern “Black Gun”. I didn’t pay much attention to it at the time because I’d transferred my M2 Carbine. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 10:27:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if I said, I agree that it was a better as a semi auto carbine for its intended purpose. I reliable 20-30 round magazine should have been prioritized. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The idea was for the Carbine to be select fire from the start. The Army didn't like that idea because the Carbine was suppose to be for support troops. It was felt they didn't need select fire weapons. By the time the M-2 was issued it was too late to have a major effect on the war What if I said, I agree that it was a better as a semi auto carbine for its intended purpose. I reliable 20-30 round magazine should have been prioritized. IIRR the Winchester prototype used a 20 round mag. The Army went with the 15 round instead. That was always the weakest part of the gun, they were cheaply made since they were disposable. That's why you still can find WWII production mags in wrappers, they made millions of them. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 10:35:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRR the Winchester prototype used a 20 round mag. The Army went with the 15 round instead. That was always the weakest part of the gun, they were cheaply made since they were disposable. That's why you still can find WWII production mags in wrappers, they made millions of them. Yeah, ordinance did a poor job recognizing that the gun would find its way into line units. It was 2/3 the weight of the m1 and double the capacity, granted any changes or improvements would have made it heavier. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 10:41:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRR the Winchester prototype used a 20 round mag. The Army went with the 15 round instead. That was always the weakest part of the gun, they were cheaply made since they were disposable. That's why you still can find WWII production mags in wrappers, they made millions of them. And ALL of the 30 rounders were CRAP! |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 10:43:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, ordinance did a poor job recognizing that the gun would find its way into line units. It was 2/3 the weight of the m1 and double the capacity, granted any changes or improvements would have made it heavier. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: IIRR the Winchester prototype used a 20 round mag. The Army went with the 15 round instead. That was always the weakest part of the gun, they were cheaply made since they were disposable. That's why you still can find WWII production mags in wrappers, they made millions of them. Yeah, ordinance did a poor job recognizing that the gun would find its way into line units. It was 2/3 the weight of the m1 and double the capacity, granted any changes or improvements would have made it heavier. I would have preferred the Carbine for most house to house fighting in the ETO or jungle warfare. Friend of mine's dad carried one on Okinawa and loved it. He showed me a picture of his dad holding his Carbine wearing BAR mag pouches loaded with Carbine mags. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 10:46:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And ALL of the 30 rounders were CRAP! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: IIRR the Winchester prototype used a 20 round mag. The Army went with the 15 round instead. That was always the weakest part of the gun, they were cheaply made since they were disposable. That's why you still can find WWII production mags in wrappers, they made millions of them. And ALL of the 30 rounders were CRAP! The USGI ones worked best downloaded to 25-26 rounds. The M-16 had similar problems with early 20 round mags, GI's downloaded to 18. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 10:56:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The question was rhetorical. Penetration is a component of terminal ballistics but does not factor in the wound channel. I'm sure you didn't need me to say that. It's really immaterial whether the bullets actually bounced off the Chinese coats, or whether the performance of the round was degraded to the point that they did not perform sufficiently in combat, and they believed they failed to penetrate. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 10:58:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For people that don't shoot much at all, I've noticed being able operate an M1 carbine is easier than an AR. Mainly because you have a simple "bolt handle" that directly let's you see into a big open chamber. Ah, someone finally got to the crux of the matter where the little M1 is concerned; very user friendly. My daughter-in-law was at the house a few weeks ago and shot one of my Carbines. She's very indifferent about firearms, but after shooting the Carbine remarked that she really liked it because it was so simply to operate and easy to shoot. When thinking of the little Carbine's, you have to get away from the "Save the world with an AR-15" train of thought. The M1 Carbine is a very simple, effective, personal defense weapon. Regarding the perceived lack of power of the .30 Carbine, it's no worse than the 9mm and 5.56 loaded with ordinary FMJ bullets. And like these two cartridges, it benefits greatly from expanding bullets. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:08:53 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah, someone finally got to the crux of the matter where the little M1 is concerned; very user friendly. My daughter-in-law was at the house a few weeks ago and shot one of my Carbines. She's very indifferent about firearms, but after shooting the Carbine remarked that she really liked it because it was so simply to operate and easy to shoot. When thinking of the little Carbine's, you have to get away from the "Save the world with an AR-15" train of thought. The M1 Carbine is a very simple, effective, personal defense weapon. Regarding the perceived lack of power of the .30 Carbine, it's no worse than the 9mm and 5.56 loaded with ordinary FMJ bullets. And like these two cartridges, it benefits greatly from expanding bullets. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For people that don't shoot much at all, I've noticed being able operate an M1 carbine is easier than an AR. Mainly because you have a simple "bolt handle" that directly let's you see into a big open chamber. Ah, someone finally got to the crux of the matter where the little M1 is concerned; very user friendly. My daughter-in-law was at the house a few weeks ago and shot one of my Carbines. She's very indifferent about firearms, but after shooting the Carbine remarked that she really liked it because it was so simply to operate and easy to shoot. When thinking of the little Carbine's, you have to get away from the "Save the world with an AR-15" train of thought. The M1 Carbine is a very simple, effective, personal defense weapon. Regarding the perceived lack of power of the .30 Carbine, it's no worse than the 9mm and 5.56 loaded with ordinary FMJ bullets. And like these two cartridges, it benefits greatly from expanding bullets. I've always figured if the need arises my Carbines are going to be used by family members with little experience with firearms. I can teach them how to use and maintain faster than my AR's |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:15:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .39 Carbine chamber pressure is 38,500 PSI and it's typically loaded with propellants optimized for an 18" barrel. So, handguns will have a lot of blast and flash. .357 Mag can be loaded up to 35,000 PSI but loads are usually optimized for shooting in revolvers, i.e., faster burning powders. Thank you. Makes perfect sense. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:17:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've always figured if the need arises my Carbines are going to be used by family members with little experience with firearms. I can teach them how to use and maintain faster than my AR's The PS90 is the only weapon that is probably easier to get newbies on to target quickly with. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:22:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The PS90 is the only weapon that is probably easier to get newbies on to target quickly with. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've always figured if the need arises my Carbines are going to be used by family members with little experience with firearms. I can teach them how to use and maintain faster than my AR's The PS90 is the only weapon that is probably easier to get newbies on to target quickly with. Which when you think about it is the 21st Century M-1 Carbine in concept, a short range personal defense weapon |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:28:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Had one and sold . Now I want another one.....someday ?
It's like a big .22 and one of the most fun guns to shoot . Box O Truth debunked the penetration myth . They set up frozen quilted coat material , more than a few layers ..... zip , zip , zip clean through every time ! |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:40:34 PM EDT
[#33]
I've never seen one of these before. Found it while searching for M1C pics.
https://www.inland-mfg.com/Inland-Handguns/M30-P.html  |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:46:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never seen one of these before. Found it while searching for M1C pics. https://www.inland-mfg.com/Inland-Handguns/M30-P.html https://i.imgur.com/Bx9qjyd.jpg That, just ain't right  Problem with "New" Inland is they have QC issues with their bolts, at least they did a couple years ago. Their also not USGI spec in size http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_inland.html |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:50:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Question, for some of you claiming that one of the problems with the M1 carbine was semi-auto only - later corrected with M2 so you had a happy switch:
You ever actually shoot an M2 carbine in full auto? I have, they are NOT easy to keep on target in full auto !!! Even shooting "smart" short controlled bursts the recoil impulse is too jarring and they really like to climb and bounce around too much to hold a decent effective "beat zone" in full auto. M16A1 is far more controllable in full auto. And even with the "happy switch" equipped M2 carbine the primary weakness of the magazine being flimsy and finicky and limited capacity (all judging by modern standards) still exists. I do totally agree though that going with more modern bullet technology could prove the cartridge. I'm thinking about one of those solid copper projectiles with the crazy tips that look like philips screw drivers 90 grains weight or so. More velocity plus that nasty bullet nose shape should make some real nasty wound channels and since they are a non expanding bullet design would even be on the right side of the Geneva Convention. I still say just upsizing the P90S platform by just about 10% and adding roller delayed bolt mechanism would be awesome in 30-carbine chambering. 50-round modern reliable magazines that top load flat and low and the 30-carbine puts out over double the impact energy of the 5.7x28 possibly even better with modernization of the load components stuffed into the 30-carbine shell !!! |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:51:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Fun plinker, but poor hunting round. Sectional density is a thing.
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:57:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The .30 Carbine SUCKS as a PDW! Where it would have shined was as a SMG! I had a Registered Reciever M2 Carbine that I cut down to basically a Plainfield pistol using a Plainfield stock and hardware and then I mounted a side folding stock and a flash suppressor, It was a buzz saw. Photo of a Plainfield pistol (not mine) https://i.imgur.com/LgtqAeV.jpg What the cartridge REALLY needs is a copper hollow point bullet at around 70-80 grains at around 2,500-2,600 fps And no @backbencher it’s currently not in the same class as the 5.7x28mm  IIRC, there are pics of Stormin Norman in Nam with a cut down paratrooper carbine |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:06:35 AM EDT
[#38]
I have one in a Ruger 3-Screw Blackhawk, its really a lot of fun out of a revolver.
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:12:01 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question, for some of you claiming that one of the problems with the M1 carbine was semi-auto only - later corrected with M2 so you had a happy switch: You ever actually shoot an M2 carbine in full auto? I have, they are NOT easy to keep on target in full auto !!! Even shooting "smart" short controlled bursts the recoil impulse is too jarring and they really like to climb and bounce around too much to hold a decent effective "beat zone" in full auto. M16A1 is far more controllable in full auto. And even with the "happy switch" equipped M2 carbine the primary weakness of the magazine being flimsy and finicky and limited capacity (all judging by modern standards) still exists. I do totally agree though that going with more modern bullet technology could prove the cartridge. I'm thinking about one of those solid copper projectiles with the crazy tips that look like philips screw drivers 90 grains weight or so. More velocity plus that nasty bullet nose shape should make some real nasty wound channels and since they are a non expanding bullet design would even be on the right side of the Geneva Convention. I still say just upsizing the P90S platform by just about 10% and adding roller delayed bolt mechanism would be awesome in 30-carbine chambering. 50-round modern reliable magazines that top load flat and low and the 30-carbine puts out over double the impact energy of the 5.7x28 possibly even better with modernization of the load components stuffed into the 30-carbine shell !!! Hague convention? We aren't a party to it |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:13:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Herman the German certainly liked the examples he captured in WWII
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:20:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question, for some of you claiming that one of the problems with the M1 carbine was semi-auto only - later corrected with M2 so you had a happy switch: You ever actually shoot an M2 carbine in full auto? I have, they are NOT easy to keep on target in full auto !!! Even shooting "smart" short controlled bursts the recoil impulse is too jarring and they really like to climb and bounce around too much to hold a decent effective "beat zone" in full auto. M16A1 is far more controllable in full auto. And even with the "happy switch" equipped M2 carbine the primary weakness of the magazine being flimsy and finicky and limited capacity (all judging by modern standards) still exists. I do totally agree though that going with more modern bullet technology could prove the cartridge. I'm thinking about one of those solid copper projectiles with the crazy tips that look like philips screw drivers 90 grains weight or so. More velocity plus that nasty bullet nose shape should make some real nasty wound channels and since they are a non expanding bullet design would even be on the right side of the Geneva Convention. I still say just upsizing the P90S platform by just about 10% and adding roller delayed bolt mechanism would be awesome in 30-carbine chambering. 50-round modern reliable magazines that top load flat and low and the 30-carbine puts out over double the impact energy of the 5.7x28 possibly even better with modernization of the load components stuffed into the 30-carbine shell !!! I've fired a M-2 a couple times (knew a guy who had one years ago) and your right, on full auto their a pain to control. As much as I love the Carbine the round has been replaced by more modern designs. The round itself was based on the 32. Winchester rimmed round used in the Model 1905. The P90's 5.7x28 is a excellent example, more modern round packing better punch for its size. The problem with the 5.7 is until Ruger brought out their pistols using that caliber the only games in town were the P90 or pistols offered by FN chambering that round. Civilians can't use the range of ammo most effective for the caliber since their considered armor piercing IIRR |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:30:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just saw a TV program that featured Murphy's Carbine, they tracked it down. Winchester made one, got me wanting a Winchester now |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:32:54 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that a photo of the Auto Ordinance entry into the carbine trails of 1941? Sure is |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:42:58 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LGS has a beautiful Winchester right now, $1500 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I just saw a TV program that featured Murphy's Carbine, they tracked it down. Winchester made one, got me wanting a Winchester now There's one near me, the shop wants $1700 for it. They also have a Inland and IBM for $1400. Another shop I frequent has a Rockola and SG for $1300. I'm waiting for a new CMP barrel gauge I just ordered to get here (I can't find the one I had, think I left it at a gun show last year  ) before I decide on which one.I already own 5 Carbines but want one that has a good USGI barrel on it. My USGI's have new Criterion barrels on them and I want one that's as close to USGI as I can get, just because I want one
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:52:44 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol so no then? They just tested whether it would go through a coat and not if it actually affected the performance? |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:55:54 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our family knew an old miner/trapper/mink farmer who had a bear problem at one point. He had told Fish and Game about the monster grizzly harassing his place and they ignored him. Well one day it tried to climb into the cab of his 6x Dodge swap buggy he used to get back to the mine and he emptied the magazine of his M1 carbine into it. Then he hauled the 1800lb bear to Glenallen and dumped it on Fish and Games porch. I met Simon twice, in 68 and 71 as my dad and uncle would always stop as his place for a cup of coffee. Some of the heavier hitting .357 mag loads make similar energy out of a carbine barrel to a 30-30; I wonder what .30 Carbine could do with a heavy hard cast |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 1:02:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right idea Poor execution that was also limited by technology (at the time) and ammo. Mistake #1 = no happy switch, later corrected in the M2. Mistake #2 = 110gr was too heavy, but they didn't know that at the time. 90gr would have been better by the FPS up quite a bit. Also, WW2 military = FMJ only It ended up acting like a semi-auto only, elongated, .30 cal sub gun. The worst of all worlds. For being as bad as you say it was pretty damn popular w/ the troops. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 1:04:21 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The PS90 is the only weapon that is probably easier to get newbies on to target quickly with. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've always figured if the need arises my Carbines are going to be used by family members with little experience with firearms. I can teach them how to use and maintain faster than my AR's The PS90 is the only weapon that is probably easier to get newbies on to target quickly with. I was going to make this exact comment. Many who dismiss the carbine and P90 greatly discount their best attribute: incredible ease of use. The FN is the easiest to shoot gun that has ever been made IME and shows why it’s an outstanding design for its intended purpose. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 1:15:14 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've fired a M-2 a couple times (knew a guy who had one years ago) and your right, on full auto their a pain to control. As much as I love the Carbine the round has been replaced by more modern designs. The round itself was based on the 32. Winchester rimmed round used in the Model 1905. The P90's 5.7x28 is a excellent example, more modern round packing better punch for its size. The problem with the 5.7 is until Ruger brought out their pistols using that caliber the only games in town were the P90 or pistols offered by FN chambering that round. Civilians can't use the range of ammo most effective for the caliber since their considered armor piercing IIRR How does a .22 caliber cartridge loaded with light for caliber bullets pack "better punch" than the .30 Carbine??? |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 1:47:53 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:. The problem with the 5.7 is until Ruger brought out their pistols using that caliber the only games in town were the P90 or pistols offered by FN chambering that round. Civilians can't use the range of ammo most effective for the caliber since their considered armor piercing IIRR @DonFlynn You need to familiarize yourself with Elite Ammunition T6B or S4M, both are incredible on Armor Piercing. Either will EASILY penetrate a Level IIIA vest. Hell, FN SS198 will go through 1 1/4” bulletproof glass. All of which are civilian LEGAL! And this is out of the less than 5” pistol barrel. |
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