Kind of like that. Now shush, read for the next 4 years then you may speak. Run along.

I carry a G29SF loaded with Underwood 10MM 180gr GD J.H.P. just to be sure.
 

Where to begin....

First off, I have no problem carrying a backup gun. I also have a micro .380.

But, doing New York reloads, and relying on those, is pretty ridiculous in my opinion.

I can do a reload, in my concealed gear within 3 seconds on a bad day. Good day is closer to two seconds. There is no way that I could reach that speed dropping my primary, and going to my pocket or ankle for a secondary weapon. Not only is it easier to reload my primary weapon, but I am not going from a single action trigger, to striker fired, to DAO, so my shots will be much more consistent.

Depending on my carry gun, I have anywhere between 41-50 rounds on me, and that is with two spare magazines, and not counting a back up gun. This is much more effective then less roughly 20 rounds between 3 guns.

3 guns, in my opinion and based off my experience, is rather impractical. Have you ever paused to think if you are the only person doing it, that might be a clue?

EZ

I dunno, didn't Rick Perry dispatch one that way?

I won't argue with anyone carry what you're comfortable with. But I choose 9mm for this. And as others have said there honestly isn't much of a difference.

I've carried a G17 for years and finally purchased a G19 last friday.

I still need to spend some time with it to have confidence in it but Im digging the smaller size so far

Dr Fackler and Roberts disagrees with you and so do I from what I've cut apart and seen.

 

It's the method proven to be efficient in combat here in the US and overseas.



I'll give you a hint. It's not your method.



 

38spl/357mag

Very interesting thread with the sole disappointment of not getting to see the '13er with 3 guns going against one guy with 1 gun and 2 magazines for total time.  I was looking forward to seeing that.

 I usually carry a 9mm myself.  Speer Gold Dot 124 +P for me.

Me too.



 

Honestly though, some of the serious threads here have made me realize that all pistols suck. I just carry whichever gun I like the most at the time.

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I would so like to see the shoot off between 1 guy (JustTheTipBaby) and 3 guns versus 1 guy (bcauz3y) and 1 gun with 2 additional mags that I will donate $50 to the winner's charity once videos of each are posted.  Come on, even if you lose someone's charity wins!

            JTTB if you win I will also buy you a team membership.

actually its quicker to draw a secondary than it is to reload a primary.

Holy shit he did!

I understand he's trolling, but really what does a .40 or .45 user usually give as their reason? It's bigger? That's about it. Carrying a pistol is always a compromise and has a serious deficiency in wounding potential no matter what caliber you carry.

You train with something else because most people can't afford to train at .50-.70 per round of 9mm for the good stuff.

There is no reason to do it anyway.

The accuracy is not much different, and I've shot a few hundred of my dedicated carry ammo to ensure function. Never a problem.

No reason to shoot thousands though for practice. Use FMJ for practice unless necessary.

If your primary is slung and you aren't worried about retaining the primary, I agree. If you're worried about retaining your weapons, this turns into a bag of smashed and infected ass.  The dude with the utility belt full of pistols hasn't really talked to us about weapons retention.

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+1. This

In a gunfight, I'd drop an empty gun without a second thought.

Hmmmmm. I wonder why the practice of carrying multiple pistols for personal defense hasn't been widely adopted by more LEA's in lieu of carrying reloads?  

I would also drop a non-functioning weapon and leave it, but only out of sheer necessity and not as part of an overall defensive plan. Mag changes can be done PDQ with practice...

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But then it might scratch.

Sure, the first time. Once you start digging in pockets and ankle holsters, that all changes.



Not taking into account the possible need for more rounds beyond the magazines in the pistols, etc, etc.



It's much more efficient to simply carry reloads, and maybe a secondary.



Carry three guns with no reloads is





 

Most of us carry a backup sidearm, but would opt for reloading our primary over drawing the backup.



Exactly, the part in bold. Your primary is your primary for a reason. Unless you are carrying two pistols that are exactly the same, and can be drawn with the same efficient draw-stroke and deployed effectively etc, etc, it will be more effective of a combat option to reload your primary weapon.



 

It'll just enhance the ones from the driveway.

WWho, besides the military, carries effing ball....in a hhandgun

They were all fucking idiots with guns. Hence why one of them is dead and the others are in jail and I have nothing to do with any one of my old friends.

Nor has he mentioned what he does with the wallet and cellphone in his hands to avoid pickpockets, when he needs to start grabbing at one of the chosen, based on ammo/price needed for the situation, of 3 guns.  Does he toss his wallet and cell aside?

Wait, whut?  It's like you're throwing a perfectly good weapon down a driveway or something!  Oh the humanity!  FWIW, I plan on doing exactly the same thing.  I am still a believer in carrying what you train with for performance consistency purposes but it would be foolish to disregard the opinions of so many guys on this board that know what they are talking about.  It's certainly worth investing the time to find out for myself.    

In nearly 9 years on ARF.com and lurking prior to that, this is the first 9mm vs everything else thread I've participated in.........it certainly hasn't disappointed!  It's like the good ol' days before Zero!

I eventually settled on 9mm. I've carried a .40, .45, .38, .44mag, .44spl, and .380.

I decided to standardize on the 9mm for a few reasons. Based on research (anecdotal, statistical, and experimental), the difference between wounds from any of the practical carry calibers is pretty small. There's a pretty big step up from .380 to 9mm, with .38 spl +P fitting somewhere in the gap.

Essentially, the chances that an expanded .45 JHP will intersect something important that a 9mm JHP fired along the same path will miss... are pretty small.  The chances that 5 hits of 9mm will intersect something important that 3 hits of .45 will miss... that's actually pretty decent. Recording my own shot times, I can make 5 good hits with a 9mm in the same time it takes me to make 4 good hits with .40 or 3 good hits with .45.

So even with no capacity difference, I'm still going to pick a 9mm over a .40 or .45, just because I can get more hits more quickly with it. 9mm is the lowest-recoil caliber that can propel a bullet with enough energy to expand a JHP and still reliably penetrate more than 12" in calibrated gelatin, both bare and with 4 layers of denim, as well as crack a pelvis reliably.

But I'll be honest. Capacity is a concern. My hands are a bit on the small side, and I can't get my fingers around any double-stack .45 handguns. I just can't get a good solid grip and reach the trigger at the same time. None of the XD, Glock, M&P, FN, or H&K double stack .45 pistols will fit. I suspect that most people who own them can't fit them in their hands either, but don't shoot them enough to realize it. So if I move up to .45, then I'm limited to about 8 rounds. Capacity between .40 and 9mm doesn't change much, with 13 vs 15, etc.


So that's why I picked a 9mm. It's the lowest-recoiling caliber that has enough energy to expand a JHP and then penetrate deep enough to reach the important bits that I need to poke holes in. As a bonus, I get more boolits in my clips - and in a gunfight, I want as many bullets going toward the other guy as possible.

I'd like to see some research on a 9mm-length .312 caliber, whether it's possible to push a heavy enough bullet fast enough to expand, penetrate, and break a pelvis.

I can't wait to see the .45 one.

I've got a CX4 and wouldn't have quams using it for HD. ballisiticsbytheinch.com will show you the velocity test results were with various loads, but I really think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

Even if a load has picked up 200fps in a carbine, that velocity does nothing to increase terminal performance - the bullet is gonna make the same sized hole either way. Going for max velocity increase may, however, put you into the very territory the Swede was referring to where you're outside the performance envelope of the bullet. The 9x19 is and will always be a service pistol round, if you want greater performance go to a rifle round.

My advice if you're looking to run a 9mm carbine is to pick a load from here, make sure it functions in your rifle, and be happy.

I started CCW with a .45, then went to a .40, and now a 9mm most of the time (still carry a .40 on duty, although I could carry something else if I wanted).

.45 is heavier than the others, with less capacity
9mm is lightest with the lightest recoild, and highest capacity
.40 is a good blend between the two, with more recoil than 9mm but in a smaller package than .45

So it's all personal preference, I can't knock on anyone for carrying any of them.    I'm not a big fan of .380 but I can understand people carrying the micro pistols, and I'm less of a fan of going any smaller than that.

I can fit my hand around any of the double stack .45s as I own a M&P .45, HK USP .45 and a FNP .45 and shoot them all pretty good but my shot to shot interval is more than it is with my 9mm.  However, for me the biggest issue is concealability.  I usually carry a P239 under a t-shirt or sometimes my P6 but I can't conceal a big handgun like a double stack .45 unless I wear a very big shirt.

This for me too. I have mags full with both...but usually only carry one mag in my 26

I LOLed

I meant to quote that earlier

It probably hasn't been brought up, but it's all about the shot placement.

 

Think so...

Pro tip: Anytime you want to post something on ARFCOM, look at when the content was produced. If it was more than 5 minutes ago, chances are it's already been posted.

I love my 9mm PPQ, I can drive it like a damn finely tuned Maserati.

Apparently at least one person in this thread does.

Every time I read this, it makes me stutter.

Sure guys.....Aaron Burr was using high velocity, muzzle loading HP sabots and shrugged off a shot from low velocity ball ammo that bounced off his dress vest.  Or maybe he aimed center mass and squeezed with a projectile that did sufficient damage to his target without killing the entire Hamilton family tree.  Ball ammo has killed dudes for a long, long time.  I can hit with it, and I've stated in this tread that I will examine the HP option.  

Despite the heat, nobody has yet refuted the fact that guys the carry one round yet train with another are adding additional variables that could lead to failures (misses).  Unless that is I'm wrong about 115 grn practice ball having that exact same recoil effect as 147 grn +p+.  Maybe I'm wrong, I'm absolutely willing to learn.  Until then, I'll continue to error on the side to consistency and hits on target.  HP or FMJ, it is wise to use the same ammo to train with that you load into your carry gun..........and that is my point.

They offer practice ball in 124, 147, and 158 grain loads as well.
If you're concerned that much about ballistics differences, maybe you could purchase regular pressure HP ammunition and practice with regular pressure FMJ ammunition of the same weight, and occasionally practice with some of your carry rounds.  That would help you rotate your carry ammo too.

Also, it's a handgun.  It isn't a very accurate weapon to begin with, so I doubt that you'd be able to notice the differences in ammunition unless you were shooting for groups instead of "training like you fight".

Is the recoil with 147 grn greater than 115 grn?  Equal and opposite reaction and all that.  I'm not as concerned with a 1st shot kill at 30 yards as I am with a recoil I am accustom to from my carry weapon.  The follow up shot(s) is every bit as important as the initial shot.  I've never been in a gunfight, and I hope I never am, but it that day comes I'm going to shoot as fast as I can, as much as I can into my target.  "Shoot to stop" means exactly that.

This is going to sound weird, but the way I recall it, for some reason heavier bullets in 9mm generally seem to have softer recoil.

I carry 230 grain Winchester Ranger RA45T JHP and I practice with 230 gr RN plated reloads.

They chrony the same, recoil the same, and hit the same place as I aim.

The only difference I can tell is in my wallet.

I completely understand the whole concept of wanting to train with what you carry, and I truly get that. It's just the fact of the matter that when it comes to FMJ vs JHP, JHP is the clear winner for the majority of personal defense situations. Most departments (and every one around my area) train with FMJ bit carry JHP. The difference between the accuracy and recoil characteristics of the carry ammo and duty ammo is so abysmally small that it is truly just conjecture. The only way I could see it being different is if you are practicing with some softball loads, then or your carry ammo you switch to some hairy nut +P+ load.

My practice ammo chronographs at 830 fps, and so does my carry ammo. I can hit what I want with either. My split times are the same. Only difference is if I do have to use my weapon in a self defense situation, I have more peace of mind that my JHP will expand and dissipate its energy inside of my target and come to rest shortly thereafter, instead of sailing through it and smacking little Sally behind my intended target. I carry JHP not only to cause more of a wound cavity, but as less liability due to it theoretically not going very far after hitting its target. Of course nothing is set in stone how a bullet will act once it hits a living mass. I have shot jack rabbits with both FMJ and JHP out of a hand gun. The vast majority of the time the JHP causes more damage. Also, most of the time you can see a much more visible impact behind the rabbit as the FMJ passes through, and along with that it usually ricochets. Hell, I have even recovered some of the JHP's that I smacked the rabbits with before, but never with the FMJ. I shoot a shitload of squirrels, and let me tell you, the FMJ always passes through the squirrel and you hear it ricochet off for god knows how long. The JHP does as designed, and fragments as soon as it hits, with only the occasional ricochet when it doesn't open up.

If you are a hunter and you are hunting big game, are you going to want to use a FMJ for your trophy elk hunt? Most certainly not.

But of course, as with everything, your mileage may vary, I am not a doctor or lawyer, and I did not stay at a holiday inn express last night. But when it comes to punching paper, I will use ammo intended for it. When it comes to the possibility of having to shoot bad guys, I will choose ammo meant for that.

EZ