User Panel
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I dunno. Sounds great for SB Tactical. But reading this from: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/foghorn/atf-its-legal-to-shoulder-an-ar-15-pistol-equipped-with-an-sb-tactical-arm-brace/ With respect to stabilizing braces, ATF has concluded that attaching the brace to a handgun as a forearm brace does not “make” a short-barreled rifle because in the configuration as submitted to and approved by FATD, it is not intended to be and cannot comfortably be fired from the shoulder. If, however, the shooter/possessor takes affirmative steps to configure the device for use as a shoulder-stock — for example, configuring the brace so as to permanently affix it to the end of a buffer tube, (thereby creating a length that has no other purpose than to facilitate its use as a stock), removing the arm-strap, or otherwise undermining its ability to be used as a brace — and then in fact shoots the firearm from the shoulder using the accessory as a shoulder stock, that person has objectively “redesigned” the firearm for the purposes of the NFA. I think we were better off with the ambiguity. Now it sounds like more constructive intent is on its way. View Quote This shit is shady as fuck |
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I predict this will be the most duped topic in the history of Arfcom .
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So don't call it a rifle and don't think about it being a rifle, and don't take a single action that might make them think you intended to use the pistol as a rifle and you're good. hmm...
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I just read the letter and its wishy washy at best. It says if you incidentally, sporadically, or situationally? use it on your shoulder your ok. What if you shoulder it more than sporadically or you intend to shoulder it every time(not incidental) FATF View Quote |
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Well if it only applies to SB Tactical braces, then do the Sig braces count, since they were created by SB Tactical? What about Sig's second generation SB-15 braces? Let's send a letter to BATFE...
Just kidding. IDGAF, and will shoot my pistol however I want. |
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MAGA you never Trump homos. View Quote OH NO, I SHORTENED MY BARREL, MAKING A LOT OF CHEAP FRAGMENTING 5.56 ROUNDS DECIDEDLY LESS DEADLY AND SHORTER RANGE. OH NO, I shortened my shotgun, taking the piss out of 12-gauge beyond room distance! Better register that gun, son, that somehow just made it as dangerous as an LMG! Dumb fucking laws. |
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As easy as a new letter of interpretation was made to make it "ok" to shoulder an arm brace.......another letter of interpretation can be made to make it "not ok" to shoulder an arm brace. That's the shitty think about these letters of interpretation.....the ATF can change them as many times as they want. View Quote I don't know why people play stupid fucking games with an agency that constantly changes it's "opinion" that could fuck you in the ass. |
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Gee, now I can actually shoulder my SBPDW brace on my pistol?!
I wonder what it's like, because I've never, ever tried. |
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ATFESBWTFBBQ
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives, Shoulder Braces.. |
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Bingo. I don't know why people play stupid fucking games with an agency that constantly changes it's "opinion" that could fuck you in the ass. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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As easy as a new letter of interpretation was made to make it "ok" to shoulder an arm brace.......another letter of interpretation can be made to make it "not ok" to shoulder an arm brace. That's the shitty think about these letters of interpretation.....the ATF can change them as many times as they want. I don't know why people play stupid fucking games with an agency that constantly changes it's "opinion" that could fuck you in the ass. |
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ATF specifically targeting a lack of arm straps, whether used or not This shit is shady as fuck View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I dunno. Sounds great for SB Tactical. But reading this from: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/foghorn/atf-its-legal-to-shoulder-an-ar-15-pistol-equipped-with-an-sb-tactical-arm-brace/ With respect to stabilizing braces, ATF has concluded that attaching the brace to a handgun as a forearm brace does not “make” a short-barreled rifle because in the configuration as submitted to and approved by FATD, it is not intended to be and cannot comfortably be fired from the shoulder. If, however, the shooter/possessor takes affirmative steps to configure the device for use as a shoulder-stock — for example, configuring the brace so as to permanently affix it to the end of a buffer tube, (thereby creating a length that has no other purpose than to facilitate its use as a stock), removing the arm-strap, or otherwise undermining its ability to be used as a brace — and then in fact shoots the firearm from the shoulder using the accessory as a shoulder stock, that person has objectively “redesigned” the firearm for the purposes of the NFA. I think we were better off with the ambiguity. Now it sounds like more constructive intent is on its way. This shit is shady as fuck At the end of the day, it's been shoved down their throats and this is the FU concession we are getting as a response. They essentially give us what we want, but they wrote a shit-ton of grey area into that letter. Quantify sporadically in actual use...as a percentage or absolute number. Quantify "situationally." One could read that as you could keep the pistol in your car, but if you used it in self defense from the shoulder because it made more sense in that situation....that would be situational use, would it not? That letter reads like a "FU" paper submitted by a ticked off student. Overly wordy, reference-y, and cryptic. It's hard to read and hard to understand where they are going with it on the first read. Ive written papers like that for profs who would get all sorts of bent out of shape over SJW stuff, hard as hell to read, hard to divine the meaning, makes the reader really work for it. The real win here, IMHO, is getting to see the SBR or fuck off crowd get all bent out of shape trying to feel like their remedy is superior. In some cases, they are correct. In other cases, a braced pistol makes way more sense and has advantages not provided with a SBR. Likewise, the SBR provides advantages that the brace does not. But I still find that the SBR crowd is super butt-hurt by the braces, and I'm going to enjoy the Schadenfreude . |
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This is fucking stupid. The ATF should cease to exist.
FTBATFE FTNFA FTGCA |
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I'd rather pay the 200 tax and be able use a real stock instead of using a sub standard instrument just to be in spite of. Oh wait, I did pay the tax. Repeatably. Will do so again. Repeatably. Don't like the tax but until they take SBR's and cans off the NFA, that is the way it will be done for me because I don't cheap out out of spite when it can save my life being more optimal View Quote |
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why are you guys still acting like it matters? do you people honestly believe that the ATF will limit itself by law? are you under the impression that the policy isn't deliberately vague?
a lot of you need to wake the fuck up. |
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I get the strange impression that some folks in this thread arent happy about this ATF opinion.
Be brave tell me why you are hostile to this news. |
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why are you guys still acting like it matters? do you people honestly believe that the ATF will limit itself by law? are you under the impression that the policy isn't deliberately vague? a lot of you need to wake the fuck up. View Quote |
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Lol, it's always been legal. ATF does not make law and can't even interpret in a completely asinine way like "putting something to your shoulder is manufacturing it!". Non issue and always has been except for "gotcha" internet lawyers. Same with overly broad interpretations of 922r. "Oh noes, the ATF is going to come count the parts on my Saiga-12!!!!" View Quote Not that anybody really cared about this particular law, except RSO's on hoverrounds |
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The ATF isn't going to the range looking for these violations. The ATFs opinion is important if the local sherif arrests your ass for a NFA violation. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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why are you guys still acting like it matters? do you people honestly believe that the ATF will limit itself by law? are you under the impression that the policy isn't deliberately vague? a lot of you need to wake the fuck up. as long as the policy is vague, the ATF can get involved or not, based on whim. and because they can set the policy without oversight, there is almost no limit to their ability to interfere with lawful gun owners. if you doubt that, look down at the two literal machine guns on your feet. |
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the ATF remains relevant and powerful by maintaining the largest possible scope of potential activities. contracting its scope is anathema to an armed bureaucrat. as long as the policy is vague, the ATF can get involved or not, based on whim. and because they can set the policy without oversight, there is almost no limit to their ability to interfere with lawful gun owners. if you doubt that, look down at the two literal machine guns on your feet. View Quote |
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Now we just have to wait a year for the news to reach all the ROs and range owners across the country lol.
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I'm still going to wait...
for the Reversal of the Reversal of the Reversal... of the Reversal. |
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I'm genuinely curious, can you provide a link to the shoelace machinegun case? View Quote google and archive search will get you the details. |
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Nice- The new clarification of opinion letter states, “an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made when the device is not reconfigured for use as a shoulder stock – even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder. To the extent that the January 2015 Open Letter implied or has been construed to hold that incidental, sporadic, or situational “use” of an arm-brace (in its original approved configuration) equipped firearm from a firing position at or near the shoulder was sufficient to constitute “redesign,” such interpretations are incorrect and not consistent with ATF’s interpretation of the statute or the manner in which it has historically been enforced.” View Quote Let's see what other interesting statements come from the ATF... |
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still stupid and gay in my opinion...
everyone who was lazy and didn't want to pay the $200 is jumping up and down... Meanwhile, I did my SBr's and SBS and other shit...many moons ago back when approvals were 30 days for trust. I hate those things not for jealousy or anything...it just looks... gay I sound snobby but I am not. |
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Trump may have influenced this behind the curtain... Let's see what other interesting statements come from the ATF... View Quote Now if Trump holds a presser and stands up there with the head of the BATFE and says they are cutting their budget by 40% I will get excited. |
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still stupid and gay in my opinion... everyone who was lazy and didn't want to pay the $200 is jumping up and down... Meanwhile, I did my SBr's and SBS and other shit...many moons ago back when approvals were 30 days for trust. I hate those things not for jealousy or anything...it just looks... gay I sound snobby but I am not. View Quote It's not about looks. It's about freedom. Fuck BATFE and continuing to infringe upon OUR RIGHTS. |
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and I agree with you....I don't like it either but the $200 is called a STAY THE FUCK OUT OF JAIL insurance.
it's great insurance for me and when showing it to the SHeriffs and cops when I shoot my SBR's. It's golden... |
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still stupid and gay in my opinion... everyone who was lazy and didn't want to pay the $200 is jumping up and down... Meanwhile, I did my SBr's and SBS and other shit...many moons ago back when approvals were 30 days for trust. I hate those things not for jealousy or anything...it just looks... gay I sound snobby but I am not. View Quote |
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