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Posted: 11/25/2020 10:51:44 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nolo did a FOIA earlier this year. ATF has not evaluated ANY submitted industry sample in over two years....They put them on the shelf and log them in. I have had a sample in to ATF since October 31. 2018. You CAN'T get any guidance from ATF other than a gotcha moment when they claim you violated the law. They will not tell what is legal but will bust you if you fail secret/unknown build criteria. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/169738/ATF_love__1__jpg-1700883.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/169738/ATF_love__2__jpg-1700884.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/169738/ATF_love__3__jpg-1700885.JPG Was going to write something similar, without the weight of your evidence. I was under the impression the ATF was NOT issuing determination letters. I seem to recall that not even being a secret anymore, that they had announced they wouldn't be doing it going forward. But I may be wrong on that. So, they aren't issuing letters......... then they go after the manufacturers for not having letters?? |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:05:17 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In other news, Delta Team Tactical still has $45 SOPMOD's Just sayin' I saw their cheap one for $20. Gonna gamble on it for giggles. I have an LMT SOPMOD but, shit, for $20 lets see how this one does on my .22 LR. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:07:42 AM EDT
[#3]
Don’t give a flying fuck. Fuck the fed bois
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:09:58 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, they aren't issuing letters......... then they go after the manufacturers for not having letters?? Precisely what is happening currently. I would also add that I have received no correspondence with ATF about any refusal, nor have the ATF returned my sample stating they refuse to examine it. The last point is if you are correct and they have publicly stated their refusal then that email (an official communication from ATF to an FFL) would indicate a deception on ATF's behalf and an intentional false statement in order to entrap....  Otherwise known as "entrapment by estoppel" in federal court. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:15:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's impossible, the 8-year assault on our 2nd amendment freedoms ended almost 4 years ago. Don't worry, the next republican will surely get it right! |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:18:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: JE machine, Davidson defense... Who the fuck are these clowns? LMT and B5 are the current contractors for the SOPMOD stock, last I checked. And they both charge $100+ Granted, the B5 Bravo is awesome, probably the best stock on the market for the money. I bought three of the JE stocks, they are great. They have a slightly rougher texture than the LMT and the storage tubes have a different retention method. They fit mil spec receiver extensions perfectly, I’ll never pay $200 for an LMT again. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:29:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting first post, fellow enthusiast. LOL, Hey man I don't often get a scoop. Pretty excited about it. Post 27 Boom! FTATF Their policy of no longer evaluating firearm accessories makes the game unwinnable, they are ripe for a top to bottom house cleaning ?? |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:34:12 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:41:02 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:43:50 AM EDT
[#10]
 ATF reaction a Biden precidency. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:47:26 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOf course you can, until they decide otherwise. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:48:46 AM EDT
[#12]
The ATF is a prime example of government run amok.
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:49:31 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:53:35 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 11/25/2020 11:59:38 AM EDT
[#15]
So the original article has been updated...this looks like nothing more than an info dump at the request of a FOID. Nothing new has been decided, just more information dumped out there. Afterall these letters are from 2 years ago. Still--what a friggin shit show.
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:02:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryBoth the letters are at the top of this page for the blades, in case you needed them: kakindustry.com/shockwave |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:03:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote History2.0 Letter from 2017. Took them a while to get that to market. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:06:03 PM EDT
[#18]
So long story short is my new Evo Micro with SB folding brace NFA now?
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:10:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last I heard the ATF wouldn’t let them and told them not to submit multiples if the core design was the same. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looks like SB Tactical has their brace approved. Then proceeded to make other braces based on the same brace but attaches to different guns. Because it is logical as the function and core design never changed from the approved version. But now ATF wants a separate approval for every type of firearm the brace will be attached to? Pants on head retarded. Last I heard the ATF wouldn’t let them and told them not to submit multiples if the core design was the same. Most likely the truth! |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:10:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So long story short is my new Evo Micro with SB folding brace NFA now? I am more confused now then before  Fucking ATF. I want to follow the law but when the "law" is in perpetual flux, how the hell do you know what is legal and what is not anymore? |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:12:00 PM EDT
[#21]
So all of these are NFA now too? Wonderful.
 I am glad I opted for the tailhook on my scorpion. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:14:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want to follow the law but when the "law" is in perpetual flux, how the hell do you know what is legal and what is not anymore? Quote HistoryQuoted: I want to follow the law but when the "law" is in perpetual flux, how the hell do you know what is legal and what is not anymore? That's the point.  “Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.” ? Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:15:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Who ever said that the sba3 buffer tube is no go is wrong. Its been accepted that you can use a buffer tube on a pistol.
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:22:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am more confused now then before Fucking ATF. I want to follow the law but when the "law" is in perpetual flux, how the hell do you know what is legal and what is not anymore? I don't care anymore. So many stupid fucking hoops with these people. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:23:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So long story short is my new Evo Micro with SB folding brace NFA now? No---read the article. Nothing new has happened--this is basically nothing more than an information dump. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:28:06 PM EDT
[#26]
FATF
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:34:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh wait a minute, I have a better idea... how about I send you a hobo's dick cheese? Go fuck yourself. This must be the third or fourth time I've seen this suggestion posted in the past couple days. Where are you guys finding all the hobos? It's winter here in MT. How do you get them to submit to the dick cheese harvesting? Are you paying for it? How much dick cheese can you get off a hobo? Are you harvesting multiple hobos for each parcel of dick cheese you send to someone you don't like? I'm curious because there are several parcels I'd like to mail as well, but I'm just not willing to do the harvesting myself. I'd prefer it to be like getting something from the grocery store instead of hunting it. Or even better, like ordering online from Hickory Farms and having it shipped directly to the recipient. So, if I could send a list of addresses to one of you out there playing with hobo dicks, I'd be happy to include enough money for postage and some extra for your time if you'd be willing to harvest and mail for me. I'll need to see some reviews of your business first though. Or at least have really good EE feedback. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:36:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who ever said that the sba3 buffer tube is no go is wrong. Its been accepted that you can use a buffer tube on a pistol. Take a look at the letter here. Implies constructive possession There is a reason both the Tailhook Mod2 and the Shockwave 2.0 have proprietary tubes. Why would they go through that effort if a carbine tube was fine? This was all debated ad nauseam when the SBA3 came out. Both the no letter issue and using a carbine tube. There might be other contradictory letters, but again why did the manufactures who have letters use proprietary tubes? |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:37:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Time to ignore them. At best. done |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:42:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Time to ignore them. At best. Yup. I don't really care any more. Not going out of my way at this point to flaunt my disregard to their arbitrary rules but I'm gonna do what I want. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:43:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Bottom line, these technicality fuck-fuck games by the ATF are straight up bullshit and must come to an end:
SB Tactical finds the motives and actions of the ATF to be arbitrary and capricious. Once again, SB Tactical encourages you to reach out to the White House and ask President Trump to rollback ATF’s agenda while he still can: One-Click Link to Contact DOJ: www.fracaction.org/contact-officials White House Comment Line: (202) 456-1111 / Email Residents from the following states and districts should reach out to their congressional representatives to let them know what they think of ATF’s actions: Kentucky – Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R) – www.mcconnell.senate.gov/public/ (202) 224-2541 / Email Alabama – Sen. Richard Shelby (R) – Chairman of the Senate Committee on Appropriations and oversees funding of DOJ/ATF. www.shelby.senate.gov/public/ (202) 224-5744 / Email Kansas – Sen. Jerry Moran (R) – Chairman of the Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies (CJS) which is responsible for funding the ATF. (202) 224-6521 / Email South Carolina – Sen. Lindsey Graham (R) – Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is responsible for ATF oversight. (202) 224-5972 / Email Ohio 4th District – Congressman Jim Jordan (R) – Ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee which has jurisdiction over 2nd amendment issues. jordan.house.gov/ (202) 225-2676 / Email If you’re not from one of these States, you can find your representative’s contact information here: www.contactingcongress.org/ |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:45:55 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am more confused now then before Fucking ATF. I want to follow the law but when the "law" is in perpetual flux, how the hell do you know what is legal and what is not anymore? That's the point. Make it impossible to comply. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:48:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FATF. We never elected them yet they come out with different contradictory rulings every other month. Fuck them. Be careful with the never elected argument. Joe biden has been "elected", so if that becomes our argument, they'll just hold an election and install whoever the fuck they want. The argument should be based on our birth right of self preservation and preservation of our families. Even the second amendment is not respected anymore. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:50:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Send Bachelors 
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:52:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Take a look at the letter here. Implies constructive possession There is a reason both the Tailhook Mod2 and the Shockwave 2.0 have proprietary tubes. Why would they go through that effort if a carbine tube was fine? This was all debated ad nauseam when the SBA3 came out. Both the no letter issue and using a carbine tube. There might be other contradictory letters, but again why did the manufactures who have letters use proprietary tubes? Even before there were braces. Buffer tubes were gtg to use as a pistol. Thats why some people even put some paracord or something on the buffer tube. I’ll have yo do some digging but its true. Thats why sb never bothered with a letter. Because braces were gtg, buffer tubes were gtg so they put them together. Edit: found the letter, now if you only have the pistol and not a rifle and have a buttstock even if not installed, that might cause a problem. https://johnpierceesq.com/which-buffer-tubes-can-i-use-on-my-ar-pistol/ |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:55:45 PM EDT
[#36]
The ATF has rendered themselves irrelevant and illegitimate for decades this is just icing on the cake. Hope they enjoy making their enforcement raids very dangerous now.Do as you do and live life to full freedom.
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:58:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Ho do these ATF fags get to make laws?
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:59:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Even Ray Charles saw this coming.
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Posted: 11/25/2020 1:00:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATF should have no power to regulate anything. It either follows the letter of the law or it doesn’t. Let alone a piece of hard rubber. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 1:08:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Be careful with the never elected argument. Joe biden has been "elected", so if that becomes our argument, they'll just hold an election and install whoever the fuck they want. The argument should be based on our birth right of self preservation and preservation of our families. Even the second amendment is not respected anymore. ^100% The Bill of Rights is not an exhaustive list of individual rights, nor was it intended to be. Yet politicians/bureaucrats STILL IGNORE it. People should reject slavery, not abide by it, because in the end it boils down to individual and property rights. If you can't own yourself or keep your own stuff; then you're merely a ward of the state. Groveling and begging for permission to own or do things that they claim dominion over and can take away from you for any reason they deem fit... Government's sole purpose should be to protect individual/property rights, and seek just punishment for those whom violate or infringe-upon other people's rights. The end, that's it. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 1:11:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryBlack friday sale coupon for KAK Industries Shockwave Blades: TAKE 15% OFF WITH CODE: BF15 No, I dont work for them or have anything to gain... They have specific letters for the 1.0 and 2.0, but not the 2M |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 1:17:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Well good thing that SOB isn't installed at the moment, or else I'd be looking at 40 years in the slammer instead of 30! Whew....
But hey, my KAK Shockwave 1.0 is legit.   FATF! |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 1:21:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Note: a couple years back the ATF began refusing to produce determination letters for firearms accessories. Now they try to use their own refusal to do their job, as an excuse to bar legal commerce and possession. Fuck these clowns. It's about time we all stopped listening to them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Note: a couple years back the ATF began refusing to produce determination letters for firearms accessories. Now they try to use their own refusal to do their job, as an excuse to bar legal commerce and possession. Fuck these clowns. It's about time we all stopped listening to them. Has anyone ever went after ATF with the commerce clause? |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 1:31:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Braces are popping up like wildfire on EE !! News the time to get that PDW brace at a cheaper price
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Posted: 11/25/2020 1:37:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Once my gun is built under existing rules using products I purchased legally at an FFL I generally don't continue researching into the legality. I believe the Constitution prohibits the making of ex post facto laws.
Fuck the ATF. ETA: Yes, I know this doesn't reflect the reality of how the ATF operates. I don't have any guns in any illegal configuration and do my best to follow all the ridiculous gun laws |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 1:41:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 30 bucks on Magpul's site, probably cheaper elsewhere. https://magpul.com/media/catalog/product/cache/b17374f70a12c2b7e2a5b1c24b27130f/m/a/mag480_blk_1_1.png  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In other news, Delta Team Tactical still has $45 SOPMOD’s Just sayin’ 30 bucks on Magpul's site, probably cheaper elsewhere. https://magpul.com/media/catalog/product/cache/b17374f70a12c2b7e2a5b1c24b27130f/m/a/mag480_blk_1_1.png The Magpul Carbine stock is GTG, I have one on my go to AR Also, come and take it |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 1:50:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Braces are popping up like wildfire on EE !! News the time to get that PDW brace at a cheaper price Just bought one from a bro w/splitfix (no RE) for $50. 
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Posted: 11/25/2020 1:54:50 PM EDT
[#48]
does it matter that my SBPDW is on a registered lower?
(no not a serious question) |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 4:41:11 PM EDT
[#49]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w16afc8mhfjkser/Initial%20FOIA%20Response%20Arm%20Braces%20%28reduced%20size%29%2011.24.20.pdf?dl=0
Here is the entire FOIA production. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 4:50:37 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w16afc8mhfjkser/Initial%20FOIA%20Response%20Arm%20Braces%20%28reduced%20size%29%2011.24.20.pdf?dl=0 Here is the entire FOIA production. Release the Kracken? Fuck that turn Nolo loose! Share that link far and wide folks |
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