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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:41:04 PM EDT
[#1]
I expected this since the Marine is the wrong color. F the left.
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:41:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Duration and intensity are a thing. That dude is fucked and I wouldn’t be surprised if he disappeared.
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:41:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you’re in agreement with “reasonable people” like BLM and AOC that this Marine is a murderer? I think he fucked up and killed him by accident. I don't want to see him prosecuted. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:42:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the marine killed the guy? I would need to see a full autopsy report otherwise who knows. Did the marine chocking him contribute to his death? It seems like there is a possibility of that. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:42:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then maybe you can point it out for the rest of the class, champ. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, we’ve had members here argue that a rear naked choke was deadly force and they’d shoot if they got in a fight and someone tried to put them in one. Maybe AOC is a member here. You wouldn't shoot someone trying to choke you out? Is a rear naked choke deadly force? The standard for use of force is a reasonable belief of death or great bodily harm. Any reasonable person would believe that the choke falls within that standard. So you’re in agreement with “reasonable people” like BLM and AOC that this Marine is a murderer? You’re putting words into my mouth. 2 things can be true at the same time. Then why don’t you explain why deadly force was justified here. I just did. You seem awfully emotional. Perhaps you should bow out of the thread gracefully before you make a bigger fool out yourself. Then maybe you can point it out for the rest of the class, champ. The standard for use of force is a reasonable belief of death or great bodily harm. Any reasonable person would believe that the choke falls within that standard. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:43:12 PM EDT
[#6]
It really, truly depends on what happened in the moments before the Marine went hands-on. But it's fun to watch everyone form up on the 'Marine good, AOC bad' side.
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:43:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is a rear naked choke deadly force? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, we’ve had members here argue that a rear naked choke was deadly force and they’d shoot if they got in a fight and someone tried to put them in one. Maybe AOC is a member here. You wouldn't shoot someone trying to choke you out? Is a rear naked choke deadly force? On a BJJ mat, no. In a street fight against somebody intent on doing you great harm? It could be. Circumstances matter. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:43:55 PM EDT
[#8]
He clearly should have been locked up either in jail or a mental institution. If you let him run free he is going to kill somebody or get killed himself. That is the law of the jungle. Politicians are responsible for the situation leading to his death.
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:43:58 PM EDT
[#9]
There's cutting off air flow and then there's cutting off blood flow.
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:44:18 PM EDT
[#10]
The marine should have claimed he was trans, and the black guy misgendered and deadnamed him. All would have been forgiven.
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:44:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It really, truly depends on what happened in the moments before the Marine went hands-on. But it's fun to watch everyone form up on the 'Marine good, AOC bad' side. This is true. That said, "AOC bad" is a forgone conclusion (rightfully so). |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:45:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's cutting off air flow and then there's cutting off blood flow. One you can fight off longer than the other. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:46:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was talking with a friend about episodes involving these street crazies. A local nut slapped a woman for no reason. The guy who hit the NYPD officer with a bottle. The guy who smeared shit in the woman's face in NYC. I commented that those people should be put to death. My friend protested that they are mentally ill and not responsible. I said "I know they're mentally ill. They should be killed as a matter of prophylaxis, not punishment." 
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:46:13 PM EDT
[#14]
It's a shitty situation. I don't think the marine set out to kill the guy, but I also don't think you can assault someone for being a schizophrenic ass on a train.
I think you can lay a lot of the blame at the feet of state AGs that are soft on crime, AOC, BLM, and the whole defund the police movement. Regular people shouldn't have to worry about this going about their day, but the past few years of criminals running around unchecked have made many people on edge and left to take matters into their own hands. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:46:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure they're choking me out with good intentions. WTF? Yes, someone coming to choke me out is abolutely an imminent threat. What a weird comment. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, we’ve had members here argue that a rear naked choke was deadly force and they’d shoot if they got in a fight and someone tried to put them in one. Maybe AOC is a member here. You wouldn't shoot someone trying to choke you out? Is a rear naked choke deadly force? I'm sure they're choking me out with good intentions. WTF? Yes, someone coming to choke me out is abolutely an imminent threat. What a weird comment. So you agree that the marine killed the guy. Cool. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:47:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then why don’t you explain why deadly force was justified here. 1) RNC can be deadly force depending on how it's deployed. 2) Deadly force wasn't justified in this incident. 3) I don't want to see the Marine face serious consequences in this incident, because I think he was trying to protect others and fucked up. Perhaps the dead man had conditions that made RNC more deadly. In the big picture the people responsible in large measure are those allowing criminals (including the now deceased black man) to run over society. People who stand up and defend others should take the legal brunt in this context. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:47:46 PM EDT
[#17]
If the roles were reversed this would not even be a news story.
The world is likely a better place with one less mentally unstable dude walking around. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:48:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, since it can be used to kill. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is a rear naked choke deadly force? Yes, since it can be used to kill. That’s a pretty broad statement since virtually every fighting technique is potentially deadly. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:48:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is true. That said, "AOC bad" is a forgone conclusion (rightfully so). Generally, yes. And Marines are generally good guys. And I'd bet 1000 to 1 that this one in particular had the best of intentions and the world is no worse off for the loss of the dead guy, and quite possibly better off, and he quite possibly did society a favor, and I'm very OK with that, but still........it really depends on what happened immediately beforehand. *shrugs* |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:49:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you agree that the Marine murdered the guy. Cool. You seem to have a bad problem with putting words into other people's mouths. From the limited information I have seen, the Marine may very well have killed the guy, but homicide does NOT equal murder. You should probably switch to decaf. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:49:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Sounds like we should be hiring a bunch of Marines to do security on the trains instead of the cops.
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:50:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you agree that the Marine murdered the guy. Cool. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is a rear naked choke deadly force? In this case, yes. If you are rendered unconscious, can you defend yourself from further assault that may result in your death? So you agree that the Marine murdered the guy. Cool. Use of deadly force does not necessarily mean murder. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:51:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Now he’s a good Michael Jackson impersonator. I’m surprised he didn’t just get him pregnant.
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:52:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, we’ve had members here argue that a rear naked choke was deadly force and they’d shoot if they got in a fight and someone tried to put them in one. Maybe AOC is a member here. You wouldn't shoot someone trying to choke you out? Is a rear naked choke deadly force? The standard for use of force is a reasonable belief of death or great bodily harm. Any reasonable person would believe that the choke falls within that standard. So you’re in agreement with “reasonable people” like BLM and AOC that this Marine is a murderer? You’re putting words into my mouth. 2 things can be true at the same time. Then why don’t you explain why deadly force was justified here. I just did. You seem awfully emotional. Perhaps you should bow out of the thread gracefully before you make a bigger fool out yourself. Then maybe you can point it out for the rest of the class, champ. The standard for use of force is a reasonable belief of death or great bodily harm. Any reasonable person would believe that the choke falls within that standard. Yeah, that doesn’t explain why you think the marine was justified in using the rear naked choke on the guy. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:53:40 PM EDT
[#25]
You knew it was only a matter of time before those cockroaches crawled out from under their rocks.
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:54:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's cutting off air flow and then there's cutting off blood flow. RNC properly applied is both. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:54:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s a pretty broad statement since virtually every fighting technique is potentially deadly. If someone sinks in a RNC it is almost impossible to escape (unless you have a gun or knife you can use on them). You go asleep quickly and if they continue it you die. So basically, your life is in their hands. If someone on the street put me in RNC I would consider any method of escape reasonable including shooting the person in the head. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:54:52 PM EDT
[#28]
The marine screwed up by going hands on with the guy before he assaulted anyone (this time). Granted we shouldn't have to wait until there is violence to stop someone aggressive and saying they don't care if they die...but in the lawsuit happy world we live in that is the better course of action.
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:54:57 PM EDT
[#29]
I do have applaud the former Marine for the faith than anyone in NYC gives a fuck that he was a good citizen.
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:55:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, we’ve had members here argue that a rear naked choke was deadly force and they’d shoot if they got in a fight and someone tried to put them in one. Maybe AOC is a member here. Personally I would shoot before their hands touched me. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:56:10 PM EDT
[#31]
 Street Fighting Man (50th Anniversary Edition / Remastered 2018) |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:56:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is a rear naked choke deadly force? So you are willing to risk them turning it nto something else? K den Sorry but I am not letting anyone incapacitate men in ANY way |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:56:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Generally, yes. And Marines are generally good guys. And I'd bet 1000 to 1 that this one in particular had the best of intentions and the world is no worse off for the loss of the dead guy, and quite possibly better off, and he quite possibly did society a favor, and I'm very OK with that, but still........it really depends on what happened immediately beforehand. *shrugs* From what we understand the guy was making general threats of violence unless he got food. But he hadn't attacked anyone. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:57:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's cutting off air flow and then there's cutting off blood flow. pretty much |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:57:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The marine screwed up by going hands on with the guy before he assaulted anyone (this time). Granted we shouldn't have to wait until there is violence to stop someone aggressive and saying they don't care if they die...but in the lawsuit happy world we live in that is the better course of action. Any force from a flamethrower to a t-shirt gun can eventually in a court, especially of the marisupal kind of NYC, be construed as "lethal" and such force needs to reach the fear or imminence of GBH threshold. I hope for that Marine's sake, there is plenty of video of people in fear of GBH. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:57:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1) RNC can be deadly force depending on how it's deployed. 2) Deadly force wasn't justified in this incident. 3) I don't want to see the Marine face serious consequences in this incident, because I think he was trying to protect others and fucked up. Perhaps the dead man had conditions that made RNC more deadly. In the big picture the people responsible in large measure are those allowing criminals (including the now deceased black man) to run over society. People who stand up and defend others should take the legal brunt in this context. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Then why don’t you explain why deadly force was justified here. 1) RNC can be deadly force depending on how it's deployed. 2) Deadly force wasn't justified in this incident. 3) I don't want to see the Marine face serious consequences in this incident, because I think he was trying to protect others and fucked up. Perhaps the dead man had conditions that made RNC more deadly. In the big picture the people responsible in large measure are those allowing criminals (including the now deceased black man) to run over society. People who stand up and defend others should take the legal brunt in this context. So a person who purposely uses deadly force, in a situation where it’s not warranted, which results in someone’s death, should not be charged because…he seems like a good guy? |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 1:57:56 PM EDT
[#37]
summer of floyd part II
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:00:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: summer of floyd part II same kinda hero redux and they pretty much burried those cops under the jail imagine what kinda "justice" a blonde haired former Marine is gonna come to... 
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:01:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You seem to have a bad problem with putting words into other people's mouths. From the limited information I have seen, the Marine may very well have killed the guy, but homicide does NOT equal murder. You should probably switch to decaf. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you agree that the Marine murdered the guy. Cool. You seem to have a bad problem with putting words into other people's mouths. From the limited information I have seen, the Marine may very well have killed the guy, but homicide does NOT equal murder. You should probably switch to decaf. Ok, so what do you feel comfortable calling it when a guy uses unjustified deadly force that ends up killing someone? |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:03:54 PM EDT
[#40]
I hope they burn every liberal City to the ground. It's the only way to fix this crap
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:04:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, so what do you feel comfortable calling it when a guy uses unjustified deadly force that ends up killing someone? homicide is not murder |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:05:06 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So a person who purposely uses deadly force, in a situation where it’s not warranted, which results in someone’s death, should not be charged because…he seems like a good guy? RNC is or isn't deadly force depending on how it's used. If a stranger assaults you and puts you in RNC you have to assume it is deadly force and respond accordingly. In this case I don't think the intent was deadly force, and death was an unintended consequence, either because the Marine did it wrong or because of the physical condition of the dead man. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:05:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If someone sinks in a RNC it is almost impossible to escape (unless you have a gun or knife you can use on them). You go asleep quickly and if they continue it you die. So basically, your life is in their hands. If someone on the street put me in RNC I would consider any method of escape reasonable including shooting the person in the head. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That’s a pretty broad statement since virtually every fighting technique is potentially deadly. If someone sinks in a RNC it is almost impossible to escape (unless you have a gun or knife you can use on them). You go asleep quickly and if they continue it you die. So basically, your life is in their hands. If someone on the street put me in RNC I would consider any method of escape reasonable including shooting the person in the head. Again, that’s true for every kind of submission technique. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:07:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So a person who purposely uses deadly force, in a situation where it’s not warranted, which results in someone’s death, should not be charged because…he seems like a good guy? What is your angle here? |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:07:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Ever ridden the F train or any subway for that matter? I did for 10 years. There’s all kinds of wackos on there.
Sounds like restraining the guy was appropriate given the venue, duration and likely response time involved. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:08:12 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is a rear naked choke deadly force? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, we’ve had members here argue that a rear naked choke was deadly force and they’d shoot if they got in a fight and someone tried to put them in one. Maybe AOC is a member here. You wouldn't shoot someone trying to choke you out? Is a rear naked choke deadly force? LOL |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:09:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you’re in agreement with “reasonable people” like BLM and AOC that this Marine is a murderer? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, we’ve had members here argue that a rear naked choke was deadly force and they’d shoot if they got in a fight and someone tried to put them in one. Maybe AOC is a member here. You wouldn't shoot someone trying to choke you out? Is a rear naked choke deadly force? The standard for use of force is a reasonable belief of death or great bodily harm. Any reasonable person would believe that the choke falls within that standard. So you’re in agreement with “reasonable people” like BLM and AOC that this Marine is a murderer? I love the way to try to spin BS. I really don't give a fuck what they say. Like above poster stated. The standard for use of force is a reasonable belief of death or great bodily harm. That's quoted in Florida's law. For the right to defend yourself. If someone attempts to choke me I would use whatever force necessary to stop them up to shooting them. As far as this case goes I really don't gaf. Do you think the marine used to much force which resulted in the death of a loud mouth crazy guy. I don't know myself because I was not there. But trying to spin that if anyone says yes. Then they are as bad as BLM and AOC is BS. Other than being loud and obnoxious was the man a threat to anyone. Also you can kill someone using that choke hold. Hence the term choke hold that cuts off a person's ability to breath. To answer your question Is a rear naked choke deadly force?it is if you use it and that person dies. Just like if you hit someone and they die. That could be called deadly force. Any amount of force used that results in death could be called deadly force. Do I think the man should have been subdued like that for being a loud mouth obnoxious idoit no I do not. As long as the man was not attacking anyone. Now the moment he touched anyone, that'd be a different story. Whether the marine did it by accident or on purpose does not matter. His actions caused a death. So yes, he used deadly force and he was a damn idoit for even touching that guy for being obnoxiously loud. Unfortunately he's getting ready to find that out considering the state he did it in. Like the term I've seen used here. Two assholes collided and one is dead and the other will probably go to prison. I don't care what those two idoits you posted stated. I agree with everything Bacos posted. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:10:29 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RNC is or isn't deadly force depending on how it's used. If a stranger assaults you and puts you in RNC you have to assume it is deadly force and respond accordingly. In this case I don't think the intent was deadly force, and death was an unintended consequence, either because the Marine did it wrong or because of the physical condition of the dead man. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So a person who purposely uses deadly force, in a situation where it’s not warranted, which results in someone’s death, should not be charged because…he seems like a good guy? RNC is or isn't deadly force depending on how it's used. If a stranger assaults you and puts you in RNC you have to assume it is deadly force and respond accordingly. In this case I don't think the intent was deadly force, and death was an unintended consequence, either because the Marine did it wrong or because of the physical condition of the dead man.  You went from “yes” to “sometimes” in less than a page. Let’s see what the next page has in store. |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:10:44 PM EDT
[#49]
I Can’t Breathe, Part 2
This time it’s personal |
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Posted: 5/4/2023 2:10:58 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, so what do you feel comfortable calling it when a guy uses unjustified deadly force that ends up killing someone? Homicide. It isn't clear RNC was "unjustified" (although considering the current politics, it was a bad idea). RNC can be deadly force or not depending on how it is used and also on the condition of the person it is used on. Context matters. The bar owner who shot the guy who had him in RNC had good reason to shoot. The person who had him in RNC attacked him and was a violent rioter who has to be presumed to have evil intent. |
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