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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:46:08 AM EDT
[#1]
They are basically equal as a battle rifle in terms of reliability and combat accuracy
I wouldn’t want a FAL in the desert. The Israelis had to add sand cuts to try and to improve reliability |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:47:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FAL M-14 should have never existed. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:48:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AR-10. Just AR-10. 
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:48:46 AM EDT
[#4]
FAL outclasses the M14 so much, it's not even funny.
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:49:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Real question is FAL vs G3
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:49:32 AM EDT
[#6]
Now I've never shot one, but why do so many here love the FAL and hate the M14? They're both 20-round 7.62 rifles that are basically identical in size and weight.
Is it just a "grass is greener on the other side" and cool pictures from Rhodesia thing? |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:51:47 AM EDT
[#7]
The M14 is an evolutionary dead end. It was obsolete 10 years before it was fielded
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:51:50 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Real question is FAL vs G3 FAL |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:52:07 AM EDT
[#9]
M14 ever day all day any time. Best rifle in my time to be sure.
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:52:41 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Real question is FAL vs G3 |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:54:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now I've never shot one, but why do so many here love the FAL and hate the M14? They're both 20-round 7.62 rifles that are basically identical in size and weight. Is it just a "grass is greener on the other side" and cool pictures from Rhodesia thing? If you consider them equal in combat accuracy and reliability then the FAL wins simply by being pistol gripped, thumb selector, left side charging handle and folding stock capable. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:56:57 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now I've never shot one, but why do so many here love the FAL and hate the M14? They're both 20-round 7.62 rifles that are basically identical in size and weight. Is it just a "grass is greener on the other side" and cool pictures from Rhodesia thing? |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:58:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FAL outclasses the M14 so much, it's not even funny. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:59:08 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Real question is FAL vs G3 |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:02:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Accuracy is about the same for both, FAL’s adjustable gas is about the only real plus. Having owned both, it’s pretty even match.
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:05:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
G3 is a shit box |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:07:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Moar beddah than FN-FAL or M-14. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:10:15 PM EDT
[#18]
FAL
How is this a question? |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:12:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The M-14 should have been fielded in 1947. Beretta took 9 months to convert their M-1 Garand machinery to produce the arguably superior to both M-14/FAL rifle the BM-59. US Army Ordnance dicked around for almost 2 decades before coming up with the M-14. The US wants the bestest the perfect rifle, and tried to perfect the M1, which simply wasn't possible. Also, US Army ordinance was always a fuckup. US army generally has only done well when some genie like Browning or Garand is involved, otherwise they tend to develop crap. Replacing Spencers with Trapdoors. Italy had the advantage of willing to accept good enough, and also they don't have a gun culture like we do, with everyone being critical of small arms. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:14:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 
How? Rotating bolt >> tilting bolt Personally I think they are pretty much a tie overall. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:18:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote History |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:19:41 PM EDT
[#22]
The FAL is a better fighting rifle, but when it comes to shooting them I prefer the balance, trigger, and overall handling of the M14. The SLR in my collection just feels excessively long and front heavy, unlike an M1 or M14. Maybe an 16" or 18" para would be different.
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:20:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are basically equal as a battle rifle in terms of reliability and combat accuracy I wouldn’t want a FAL in the desert. The Israelis had to add sand cuts to try and to improve reliability AR15 does real well in that. The French MAS-49 does better than most. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:21:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FAL M-14 should have never existed. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:21:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "legend" is the result of Vietnam vets who had M16s jam due to the wrong ammo, who wanted the M14s they trained with instead for that reason. And due to Highpower shooters from the 70s and 80s, and all of us who grew up reading the nonsense by the "Battle Rifle" pushers of that era. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:22:51 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same argument can be made for the AR and the Mini 14. But the AR is clearly superior, for a number of reasons. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:24:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
G3 is a shit box Recoil impulse and the heavy trigger make it much less fun to shoot. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:26:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AR-10 wasn’t a reliable enough platform till recently and even now has issues mostly stemming from a lack of standards. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:28:41 PM EDT
[#29]
But muh M14 was too good and powerful and the UN made us switch to the 5.56 “poodleshooter” round for political correctness and to help Communism win the Cold War
The M14 is certainly pleasant to shoot but I prefer the FAL for reasons of ergonomics and personal interest. I have some FALs and I might get a well made M14 clone when I get more money. If I had to choose one it’d be the FN It’s a moot point as AR-10 derivatives have made both obsolete in terms of 7.62 NATO platforms (which are obsolete for general issue anyway) |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:29:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, the AR10 of today is really a different animal than the other 7.62s, due to its modern development. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:29:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean like the stories printed by Chuck Karwan about the crusty old sergeant who would shoot down trees on an LZ with his M14? But yeah, there was a lot of "battle rifle" nonsense being pushed out in the 70s, 80s and 90s. I fell for it, wish I invested in the AR15 long before I did. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:31:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How? M1a is lighter and handles better. Has fewer parts. Simpler gas system. Sights on the same part of the rifle and are vastly superior to the FAL. Better trigger. Safety that blocks the hammer but is less desirable in location and manipulation. Ime it is slightly less prone to malfunction. Accuracy is a wash. Durability goes to the FAL as does ease of cleaning and maintenance. Fal is slightly more optics friendly. Neither is as good for military purposes as the AR. Either will do anything and everything a civilian would want out of a rifle if only at a weight penalty which is largely academic in anything but eotwawki fantasy. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:32:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is probably the most reliable of that class of rifles. Also probably wins out on intrinsic accuracy as well. Recoil impulse and the heavy trigger make it much less fun to shoot. I have another local member’s butchered semi-auto trigger pack in my parts box. He sent it off to a guy who’s supposed to be a genius with lowering pull weights and smoothing them out. Instead, there is mostly hammer-follow, 2.5lbs of pull in FIRE, 7lbs on SAFE(yes, it fires on that position), and he was able to make his rifle fire by wiggling the trigger housing. There is so much metal missing from the trigger, sear, and hammer, that only a little spring pressure is holding everything back. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:35:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Primarily ergonomics and manual of arms, imo. If you consider them equal in combat accuracy and reliability then the FAL wins simply by being pistol gripped, thumb selector, left side charging handle and folding stock capable. M14s are folding stock capable. The FAL no doubt has an edge in reliability since it is more closed. The M14 safety is ambi, so it has that going for it. The FAL has a more in-line stock so better control. I'd give the advantage to the FAL, by a small amount. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:36:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are both good rifles, if you want a full-size .308 magazine fed semi-auto. Honestly, I think either is a great choice, and so "the best" is going to be more a matter of personal preference and ergonomics, and well as the particular role you need it for. Obviously the M14 is a more accurate rifle, and perhaps has slightly better slights, but the FAL probably has slightly better ergonomics for a generalist infantry rifle. Both are longer than they need to be, IMO. If I was forced to make a choice, I'd probably pick the FAL, but I'd be perfectly happy with either.  Having shot both, I liked the M14 better, but would be happy with either. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:36:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are both good rifles, if you want a full-size .308 magazine fed semi-auto. Honestly, I think either is a great choice, and so "the best" is going to be more a matter of personal preference and ergonomics, and well as the particular role you need it for. Obviously the M14 is a more accurate rifle, and perhaps has slightly better slights, but the FAL probably has slightly better ergonomics for a generalist infantry rifle. Both are longer than they need to be, IMO. If I was forced to make a choice, I'd probably pick the FAL, but I'd be perfectly happy with either. Now that I'm a Boomer I need optics. The only .308 I own now is an 18" AR pattern rifle. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:38:50 PM EDT
[#37]
FAL and it's not even close.
This thread needs more pole! |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:39:50 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:42:28 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Accuracy is a wash. The M14 can be made into a true MOA rifle (but not much better), but it doesn't keep that long, it shoots itself lose quickly. Just as the M1 did. I don't think anyone has a reliable MOA FAL. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:43:16 PM EDT
[#40]
I'd feel rather good with the M14, L1A1, or G3 in my hands in a SHTF scenario.
Best is an opinion. As a partner, I'd rather have Massad Ayoob with a S&W Model 10 .38 Special vs 98% of fellow LEO's with a Glock 22. Catch my drift? |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:43:38 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:46:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are both good rifles, if you want a full-size .308 magazine fed semi-auto. Honestly, I think either is a great choice, and so "the best" is going to be more a matter of personal preference and ergonomics, and well as the particular role you need it for. Obviously the M14 is a more accurate rifle, and perhaps has slightly better slights, but the FAL probably has slightly better ergonomics for a generalist infantry rifle. Both are longer than they need to be, IMO. If I was forced to make a choice, I'd probably pick the FAL, but I'd be perfectly happy with either. Match grade M1As are more accurate, but for rack grade rifles it is more a tie. It takes a lot of work to keep M1As shooting well. I know in the UK they used to shoot FALs out at 1,000 yards, not sure what they did to make them accurate or how much success they had. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:48:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Some of you are seriously on dope.
AR-10 was hugely successful in many places of heavy fighting with less than ideal ammo where few white men dared to tread. It’s ALWAYS been successful aside from Eagle Arms and Knights Armament, the only real revisions were made in the early 70s. Its only drawback was the odd for its era charging handle. The only issues it had were outright sabotage. Anyone else who just used it and kept it lubed had few problems if any. A lot of this “muh M14” “muh FAL” and “muh G3” boils down to fashion statements and emotions or wanting to be different. Why do I want a gun with wood, more moving parts, and a lot of personality with the gas valve when I can have something that is accurate, lightweight, and works? Even 50 years ago AR-10 was the right answer. Gimme a break with the wolf talk on muh Cold War and muh Rhodesia |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:49:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd feel rather good with the M14, L1A1, or G3 in my hands in a SHTF scenario. Best is an opinion. As a partner, I'd rather have Massad Ayoob with a S&W Model 10 .38 Special vs 98% of fellow LEO's with a Glock 22. Catch my drift? It is close to a tie between the rifles you list. Particularly FAL and 14, not much difference. I'd judge the FAL slightly better due to a more sealed action and more in-line stock for faster follow up shots. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:50:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FAL outclasses the M14 so much, it's not even funny. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:51:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want a 16" FAL with a railed top cover and ACR/ACR style stock. 
I don't want to spend the $$ to feed it.  Let me know the next time you visit your folks. I could let you shoot one (18" barrel though). Railed topcover and ACR stock. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:53:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of you are seriously on dope. AR-10 was hugely successful in many places of heavy fighting with less than ideal ammo where few white men dared to tread. It’s ALWAYS been successful aside from Eagle Arms and Knights Armament, the only real revisions were made in the early 70s. Its only drawback was the odd for its era charging handle. The only issues it had were outright sabotage. Anyone else who just used it and kept it lubed had few problems if any. A lot of this “muh M14” “muh FAL” and “muh G3” boils down to fashion statements and emotions or wanting to be different. Why do I want a gun with wood, more moving parts, and a lot of personality with the gas valve when I can have something that is accurate, lightweight, and works? Even 50 years ago AR-10 was the right answer. Gimme a break with the wolf talk on muh Cold War and muh Rhodesia The AR-10 is, in principle, the superior design. But I don't know that is true in practice. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:55:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many high-power matches have been won with a FAL? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
FAL outclasses the M14 so much, it's not even funny. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 12:55:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many high-power matches have been won with a FAL? Brits used FALs a lot in competition, not sure what performance they got, but they were able to get Lee Enfields to shoot real well, so they have some sort of magic. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 1:00:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no idea. How is that relevant? Since FALs can't compete in Service Rifle, their lack of success doesn't mean anything. The Brits (and other English speaking nations) used FALs in their version of Highpower, it might be interesting to compare their results to ours with M1As. |
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