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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:00:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be?
Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? Just build a simpler structure under ground. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:02:51 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be?
Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? Just build a simpler structure under ground. Easy answer. No |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:02:55 AM EDT
[#3]
Brick veneer would get ripped off. Even if properly tied to the furring strips. A 6" concrete roof would likely get ripped off.
About the only thing that would survive an EF4 would be hemispherical igloo type made with reinforced concrete. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:03:19 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Quoted: Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be? Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? Just build a simpler structure under ground. And how does that work when your basement is covered in debris(can't get in or out) or is now exposed to sky? |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:04:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be? Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? Just build a simpler structure under ground. And how does that work when your basement is covered in debris(can't get in or out) or is now exposed to sky? Have a chainsaw handy. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:05:16 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be?
Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? No idea about the house/tornado specs, but a M2 .50 with a bunch of belts can eat its way through a concrete structure. If you have enough belts, you'll eventually punch a hole through it no matter how thick the concrete is. You could probably punch a hole through the Hoover damn with a M2 .50 and 100K rounds of AP ammo. 
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:06:36 AM EDT
[#7]
A big part of storm hardening a structure is securing the roof to the foundation.
Because once the roof structure flies off, the walls fall in like a house of cards. But at 200 mph winds, aerodynamics would probably also be needed, like said above. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:07:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Concrete Igloo with 40' deep pilings holding it down
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:07:13 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be?
Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? Just build a simpler structure under ground. And how does that work when your basement is covered in debris(can't get in or out) or is now exposed to sky? Have a chainsaw handy. An 8 ton long ram and prybars too. There's no need to be trapped in an underground structure. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:07:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be?
Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? Just build a simpler structure under ground. And how does that work when your basement is covered in debris(can't get in or out) or is now exposed to sky? Have a chainsaw handy. Groovy solution. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:08:34 AM EDT
[#11]
It is possible to build a structure to survive the wind, but the problem is things like cars and huge trees that are flying through the air at 100+ MPH hitting your structure.
I think they have shown a laminate structure that uses rebar and concrete tied all together like a bank vault will work. It seems that I read once that a woman had built a safe room in her home in OK and it was the only above ground structure to ever survive a direct hit from an F5. But I guess it is possible that if enough cars, tractors and or large trees hit it, it would have failed as well. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:08:53 AM EDT
[#12]
People get the misconception that it's the wind from a tornado that destroys houses and property. In most cases, it's not the wind, but wind-launched missiles, such as cars, propane tanks, trees and other construction debris. To build a truly tornado-proof structure, you'd have to design it to withstand the impact of missiles weighing a couple of tons traveling at up to 70 MPH. That works out to a metric buttload of energy.
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:11:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be?
Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? Just build a simpler structure under ground. And how does that work when your basement is covered in debris(can't get in or out) or is now exposed to sky? Have a chainsaw handy. I have 2 chainsaws at home, and neither one is worth a shit cutting concrete. 
I do have a tool here at work, called a quickie saw, which with the proper blade, will cut concrete. You will die from the dust, if you're trapped inside though. 
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:12:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Brick veneer would get ripped off. Even if properly tied to the furring strips. A 6" concrete roof would likely get ripped off. About the only thing that would survive an EF4 would be hemispherical igloo type made with reinforced concrete. We have one of those "igloo" homes down by my parents. I'll have to take a picture of it and post it up. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:12:22 AM EDT
[#15]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=625006
http://www.monolithic.com/ You're probably still hosed on .50 cal protection. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:12:59 AM EDT
[#16]
Think of everything around your structure hitting your structure at over 70mph.
Pretty tough to design around that. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:13:23 AM EDT
[#17]
It is probably better to just build a bunker under ground level instead of a super hardened above ground structure. Either way, it is a ton of resources and money preparing for an event that has a very low probability of actually occurring. I think the best solution is a underground storm cellar offset from a regular ole house.
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:14:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Ever see the video of the jet crashing into the side of the nuclear power plant, or whatever it was?
Build it like that. It'll work. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INY5RCzhbjw |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:17:08 AM EDT
[#19]
camouflage if done right, the tornado will never see it. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:25:20 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be?
Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? Just build a simpler structure under ground. And how does that work when your basement is covered in debris(can't get in or out) or is now exposed to sky? Just Google "underground house". They're literally (most of the time, anyway) built into the side of a hill. The roof is part of the yard & the only wall exposed is the one where your door is. But even this isn't foolproof. It can still be damaged. And the idea of building a "tornado proof" house is far fetched anyway, unless you want to live in something like the "Fuher Bunker" or a decommissioned missile silo. I don't know.... I grew up in SW Iowa & we had our share of tornadoes all the time I lived there & everybody seemed to get along fine hunkering down in their basements or in the root cellar in the backyard...... |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:28:03 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
A big part of storm hardening a structure is securing the roof to the foundation. Because once the roof structure flies off, the walls fall in like a house of cards. But at 200 mph winds, aerodynamics would probably also be needed, like said above. Not to mention the pressure variances that happen in a tornado. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:29:31 AM EDT
[#22]
An F5 will destroy almost any structure - so Ideally, you want to be underground. With the incredible wind speed/strength of an F5 tornado, and flying debris (such as full-size trucks and SUVs and possibly even semi-trailers), there's not really going to be anything that's a "sure thing" in terms of a house.
If you are not udnerground, some type of dome/igloo sort of smooth structure made out of reinforced concrete would probably be the best alternative. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:33:18 AM EDT
[#23]
I'm afraid insurance is the only real answer––and a basement for valuable things like people.
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:33:35 AM EDT
[#24]
What about the pressre drop (on humans)?
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:34:37 AM EDT
[#25]
I always thought this looked interesting !
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:38:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
A big part of storm hardening a structure is securing the roof to the foundation. Because once the roof structure flies off, the walls fall in like a house of cards. But at 200 mph winds, aerodynamics would probably also be needed, like said above. Not to mention the pressure variances that happen in a tornado. You'd need some 'oh shit' vents.
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:38:49 AM EDT
[#27]
I live about 1 mile south of the path of the F5 that his N.Bama recently. The one that killed 78 people
I see the destruction it caused daily, and it makes it hard for me to believe a conventionally styled structure could survive an f5 hit. I have seen H-girders made from 1 inch steel twisted into pretzels, 100 year old trees ripped out of the ground roots and all, reinforced concrete structures crumbled. I have not seen it, but they say their are even places where the twister peeled the asphalt right off the highway. In short, destructive power that is hard to even comprehend. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:39:14 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
What about the pressre drop (on humans)? Don't hold your breath. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:41:34 AM EDT
[#29]
"It's not THAT the wind is blowing....it's WHAT the wind is blowing" - Ron White
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:44:49 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: camouflage if done right, the tornado will never see it. You're an f'ing genius!  |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:49:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be?
Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? Just build a simpler structure under ground. And how does that work when your basement is covered in debris(can't get in or out) or is now exposed to sky? Just Google "underground house". They're literally (most of the time, anyway) built into the side of a hill. The roof is part of the yard & the only wall exposed is the one where your door is. But even this isn't foolproof. It can still be damaged. And the idea of building a "tornado proof" house is far fetched anyway, unless you want to live in something like the "Fuher Bunker" or a decommissioned missile silo. I don't know.... I grew up in SW Iowa & we had our share of tornadoes all the time I lived there & everybody seemed to get along fine hunkering down in their basements or in the root cellar in the backyard...... Most tornadoes in the Midwest will be approaching from the west. If your one wall was facing the east, the structure would be more survivable. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:49:04 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Brick veneer would get ripped off. Even if properly tied to the furring strips. A 6" concrete roof would likely get ripped off. About the only thing that would survive an EF4 would be hemispherical igloo type made with reinforced concrete. Ahh, you mean a Monolithic Concrete Dome Home! http://www.monolithic.com/topics/homes |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:50:36 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
What about the pressre drop (on humans)? Not enough to worry about. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:53:38 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I have not seen it, but they say their are even places where the twister peeled the asphalt right off the highway. In short, destructive power that is hard to even comprehend. I've seen pictures of aftermath like this. Asphalt roads peeled-up like banana skins... and brick/block structures stripped completely off the concrete foundation. I'm absolutely convinced... the ONLY safe place to be during a powerful tornado is UNDERGROUND in a reinforced bunker. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:54:54 AM EDT
[#35]
There's a whole lot of WTF in this thread - as usual.
How many here are Structural Engineers??? I'm not, but my father is, and he's helped me come up with a few designs for Tornado-Proof buildings, above and below ground... To answer the O.P.'s question - NO - that wouldn't work. However, one could use reinforced, pre-cast concrete, installed with a crane/lift, and anchored with sufficient depth to negate horizontal wind loading, and then the roof will have to be tied in with reinforcement, and will also need to be an incredibly HEAVY solid reinforced concrete construction, and having additional reinforcement where the roof ties into the concrete walls. One COULD build such a structure, and also keep it moderately attractive looking... Similar to the colored & textured concrete exteriors of a Barnes & Noble or other larger commercial buildings... That's what's needed for an above-ground 'nado proof building. If you wanted, you could, for less cost, build a 100% tornado proof basement, with reinforced concrete main level floor with extensive anchoring all around the edge of the floor. Then on top of that you can build a regular Stud & Sheetrock / Balloon Frame type house any way you want... From the exterior it'd look 100% completely normal, but if you had bedrooms in the basement, a small kitchenette, and a bathroom. Of course that would require use of reinforced & protected egress window bays, but that's not much more expensive than conventional egress windows. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:55:12 AM EDT
[#36]
A tornado that hit about 30 miles north of here a few years back - all the houses were gong - including the foundations. In one case the foundation was still there - but the tornado took the toilet.
Root cellar/bomb shelter are more rationally approaches. Insurance will replace the house. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:56:04 AM EDT
[#37]
Imagine an orbital sander. Now imagine it 200' in diameter. Now imagine running the giant orbital sander and dragging it across the ground at 35 MPH for a few miles. That's the sort of deal you get with an F5 on the ground.
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:57:29 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: A tornado that hit about 30 miles north of here a few years back - all the houses were gong - including the foundations. In one case the foundation was still there - but the tornado took the toilet. Root cellar/bomb shelter are more rationally approaches. Insurance will replace the house. Not during TEOTWAWKI or a zombie attack which is what I'm trying to hypothetically design for. Maybe building in a place not prone to tornadoes is a better idea. I just figured if I could build a structure that could withstand one I'd be good to go for when the zombies come.
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Posted: 5/24/2011 11:57:40 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What about the pressre drop (on humans)? Not enough to worry about. From Wiki: A pressure deficit of 100 millibars (2.95 inHg) was observed when a violent tornado near Manchester, South Dakota on June 24, 2003 passed directly over an in-situ probe. In less than a minute the pressure dropped to 850 millibars (25.10 inHg), which is the lowest pressure ever recorded at the Earth's surface when adjusted to sea level.[16] I would imagine that the human body would have some problems if it had to endure 25" of mercury for any legth of time. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 12:00:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
It is probably better to just build a bunker under ground level instead of a super hardened above ground structure. Either way, it is a ton of resources and money preparing for an event that has a very low probability of actually occurring. I think the best solution is a underground storm cellar offset from a regular ole house. There's a man who knows what he's talking about. From Oklahoma. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 12:01:20 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
A tornado that hit about 30 miles north of here a few years back - all the houses were gong - including the foundations. In one case the foundation was still there - but the tornado took the toilet. Root cellar/bomb shelter are more rationally approaches. Insurance will replace the house. That dirty bastard! 
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Posted: 5/24/2011 12:01:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What about the pressre drop (on humans)? Not enough to worry about. From Wiki: A pressure deficit of 100 millibars (2.95 inHg) was observed when a violent tornado near Manchester, South Dakota on June 24, 2003 passed directly over an in-situ probe. In less than a minute the pressure dropped to 850 millibars (25.10 inHg), which is the lowest pressure ever recorded at the Earth's surface when adjusted to sea level.[16] I would imagine that the human body would have some problems if it had to endure 25" of mercury for any legth of time. I think the pressure at the top of Mount Everest is much lower than that. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 12:02:24 PM EDT
[#43]
Underground bunker with primary exit...secondary exit of 3' or 4' diameter concrete drain tunneled away from bunker. Simple.
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Posted: 5/24/2011 12:06:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be? Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? Just build a simpler structure under ground. And how does that work when your basement is covered in debris(can't get in or out) or is now exposed to sky? Just Google "underground house". They're literally (most of the time, anyway) built into the side of a hill. The roof is part of the yard & the only wall exposed is the one where your door is. But even this isn't foolproof. It can still be damaged. And the idea of building a "tornado proof" house is far fetched anyway, unless you want to live in something like the "Fuher Bunker" or a decommissioned missile silo. I don't know.... I grew up in SW Iowa & we had our share of tornadoes all the time I lived there & everybody seemed to get along fine hunkering down in their basements or in the root cellar in the backyard...... Alright what part of SW Iowa? My family fared over near Emerson |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 12:09:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Don't be a pussy, ride that bitch.
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Posted: 5/24/2011 12:11:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Think of everything around your structure hitting your structure at over 70mph. Pretty tough to design around that. Surround the structure with tall steel pipes? |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 12:18:43 PM EDT
[#47]
It's possible to design against the wind-loading and shear forces that the wind would exert against the walls., but the debris being carried in the windstream ia another matter entirely.
Go back and watch those Tsunami videos from Japan. See all those cars and trucks being carried along in the flood? Those are going to act like thousand-pound battering rams against any structure... and a similar phenomenon will take place in tornadic winds. Just build a good strong cellar. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 12:21:32 PM EDT
[#48]
I would build the house in an area that doesn't have tornados.
simple solutions and all that............. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 12:22:48 PM EDT
[#49]
The F5 here in AL a few weeks ago peeled asphalt up off the ground and, in places, moved topsoil and sod. I'd want to be below grade. Completely. |
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Posted: 5/24/2011 12:27:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would 6" of reinforced foam insulated concrete with an outer layer of brick and a "secondary" roof made from 6" thick reinforced concrete be enough to take a direct hit from the types of tornadoes that have been hitting the south and mid-west? If not how thick would the walls need to be?
Also how well would such a house fair against small arms fire upto an incuding .50MBG fire and grenades? Just build a simpler structure under ground. And how does that work when your basement is covered in debris(can't get in or out) or is now exposed to sky? Just Google "underground house". They're literally (most of the time, anyway) built into the side of a hill. The roof is part of the yard & the only wall exposed is the one where your door is. But even this isn't foolproof. It can still be damaged. And the idea of building a "tornado proof" house is far fetched anyway, unless you want to live in something like the "Fuher Bunker" or a decommissioned missile silo. I don't know.... I grew up in SW Iowa & we had our share of tornadoes all the time I lived there & everybody seemed to get along fine hunkering down in their basements or in the root cellar in the backyard...... Alright what part of SW Iowa? My family fared over near Emerson Rural Union County. I claim Lorimor as my hometown, but I've got family scattered all around the county/area. |
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