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Link Posted: 2/7/2023 2:14:00 PM EDT
[#1]
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It's kind of funny when people mention recoil with the AR15.
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Recoil. Mid length is much better.

It's kind of funny when people mention recoil with the AR15.
People confuse the sensation of the action cycling with recoil.

I had a 7.62x39 upper that was cartoonishly overgassed. That round doesn't have much recoil, but the buffer jackhammering on the end of the receiver extension left a bruise.
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 2:20:24 PM EDT
[#2]
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Mid for 16
Carbine for 14.5


Carbine usually feels more balanced to me but they are both fine in my experience.


Edit
Properly gassed rifle is more noticeable than gas length as far as recoil
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This is correct.  The carbine length gas system was created for 14.5 to insure enough dwell time for reliable operation with the shorter (less than rifle length) barrel.  For 16" barrels the mid-length system is ideal.
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 2:21:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Barrell vs Gas System
14.5" - Carbine
16" - Mid
20" - Rifle
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 2:31:55 PM EDT
[#4]
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Yep. The first AR I ever built was a 16" midlength FN barrel from PSA. That thing is an amazing all around rifle.
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Honestly, the AR reached its pinnacle with that combination from PSA. Everything else has been hotdogs in lime jello. Unnecessary and sometimes gross.
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 2:33:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Personally, it's a more smoother shooting rifle in mid gas to me.
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 2:38:05 PM EDT
[#6]
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Honestly, the AR reached its pinnacle with that combination from PSA. Everything else has been hotdogs in lime jello. Unnecessary and sometimes gross.
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Yep. The first AR I ever built was a 16" midlength FN barrel from PSA. That thing is an amazing all around rifle.

Honestly, the AR reached its pinnacle with that combination from PSA. Everything else has been hotdogs in lime jello. Unnecessary and sometimes gross.

Honestly, lol no it has not. I own that too and I also have a Sionics mid length that makes what you just said even more unnecessary and grosser. A waste of money on jus as gud really.
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 2:50:38 PM EDT
[#7]
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Umm..Mid length gas is an afterthought. Original gas was either rifle or carbine.
Off the top of my head..? Mid length did not start to appear until the early 90’s.
There may very well be some prototype Armalites with various gas lengths but that is all.
There was no one making mid length barrels at least into the 80’s and I’m thinking mid 90’s before you even heard of them.

If someone has the rough date ? My foggy brain says late last years of Armalite or possibly Colt after the Govt contract..?
Correct me…as needed
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this.

Ergos are better, everything is better.  


At the heart of it: 7" of dwell time is like the Avogadro's number of Stoner's design.  The AR15 was designed as a rifle length barrel and rifle length gas system to have 7" of dwell time.  Carbine length gas system was designed for the 14" bbl to have... 7" of dwell time!

Carbine length gas system on a 16" barrel is bullshit that is the result of dumb fuck laws and nothing to do with design (eta: this combination results in 9" of dwell time).  If you're stuck with a 16" bbl, then mid length gas is the correct answer - 7" of dwell time.


Umm..Mid length gas is an afterthought. Original gas was either rifle or carbine.
Off the top of my head..? Mid length did not start to appear until the early 90’s.
There may very well be some prototype Armalites with various gas lengths but that is all.
There was no one making mid length barrels at least into the 80’s and I’m thinking mid 90’s before you even heard of them.

If someone has the rough date ? My foggy brain says late last years of Armalite or possibly Colt after the Govt contract..?
Correct me…as needed


@Number1gun  you are missing my point.  Both rifle and carbine length gas systems were designed to provide 7" of dwell time on the barrel lengths they were designed for; 20" or 14" respectively.  Carbine length gas was not designed for a 16" bbl.  The 16" bbl is only a thing as a result of NFA.  

So the civilian market had a choice of 2 gas lengths to use on the 16" bbls they were forced to use because of NFA - rifle, or carbine.  After enough people used carbine length gas system on a 16" bbl and realized the sub optimal performance that combination produced the mid length gas system was introduced to correct the problem.  This is also why true dissipators (rifle gas on 16"bbl) never really took, 3" of dwell time only works if you blow out the gas port to a huge diameter and even then doesn't work great.

It is a misunderstanding to assume the carbine length gas system was meant to go on a 16" bbl - that combination only exists because of laws.  

Does that make more sense?
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 3:31:15 PM EDT
[#8]
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Honestly, lol no it has not. I own that too and I also have a Sionics mid length that makes what you just said even more unnecessary and grosser. A waste of money on jus as gud really.
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Yep. The first AR I ever built was a 16" midlength FN barrel from PSA. That thing is an amazing all around rifle.

Honestly, the AR reached its pinnacle with that combination from PSA. Everything else has been hotdogs in lime jello. Unnecessary and sometimes gross.

Honestly, lol no it has not. I own that too and I also have a Sionics mid length that makes what you just said even more unnecessary and grosser. A waste of money on jus as gud really.

LOL, K…
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 3:38:03 PM EDT
[#9]
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@Number1gun  you are missing my point.  Both rifle and carbine length gas systems were designed to provide 7" of dwell time on the barrel lengths they were designed for; 20" or 14" respectively.  Carbine length gas was not designed for a 16" bbl.  The 16" bbl is only a thing as a result of NFA.  

So the civilian market had a choice of 2 gas lengths to use on the 16" bbls they were forced to use because of NFA - rifle, or carbine.  After enough people used carbine length gas system on a 16" bbl and realized the sub optimal performance that combination produced the mid length gas system was introduced to correct the problem.  This is also why true dissipators (rifle gas on 16"bbl) never really took, 3" of dwell time only works if you blow out the gas port to a huge diameter and even then doesn't work great.

It is a misunderstanding to assume the carbine length gas system was meant to go on a 16" bbl - that combination only exists because of laws.  

Does that make more sense?
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Wasn't the carbine gas system originally used with 10" barrels? I think the 14.5" barrel came later in conjunction with it for those reasons, but not the other way around.
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 3:42:47 PM EDT
[#10]
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Barrell vs Gas System
14.5" - Carbine
16" - Mid
20" - Rifle
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11.5 to 12.5 - carbine
13.9, 14.5, to 16 - mid
18 to 20 - rifle
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 3:43:20 PM EDT
[#11]
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LOL, K…
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LOL, K indeed...
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 4:01:10 PM EDT
[#12]
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Honestly, lol no it has not. I own that too and I also have a Sionics mid length that makes what you just said even more unnecessary and grosser. A waste of money on jus as gud really.
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Whoa! Are you telling him not to like something you don't like?

JK, Sionics is good to go. I have one of their NP3 BCGs that will probably go in a 6940.
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 4:10:25 PM EDT
[#13]
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Whoa! Are you telling him not to like something you don't like?

JK, Sionics is good to go. I have one of their NP3 BCGs that will probably go in a 6940.
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Careful… you’ll end up on the ignore list for forcing him to like something.
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 6:09:56 PM EDT
[#14]
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Wasn't the carbine gas system originally used with 10" barrels? I think the 14.5" barrel came later in conjunction with it for those reasons, but not the other way around.
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@Number1gun  you are missing my point.  Both rifle and carbine length gas systems were designed to provide 7" of dwell time on the barrel lengths they were designed for; 20" or 14" respectively.  Carbine length gas was not designed for a 16" bbl.  The 16" bbl is only a thing as a result of NFA.  

So the civilian market had a choice of 2 gas lengths to use on the 16" bbls they were forced to use because of NFA - rifle, or carbine.  After enough people used carbine length gas system on a 16" bbl and realized the sub optimal performance that combination produced the mid length gas system was introduced to correct the problem.  This is also why true dissipators (rifle gas on 16"bbl) never really took, 3" of dwell time only works if you blow out the gas port to a huge diameter and even then doesn't work great.

It is a misunderstanding to assume the carbine length gas system was meant to go on a 16" bbl - that combination only exists because of laws.  

Does that make more sense?


Wasn't the carbine gas system originally used with 10" barrels? I think the 14.5" barrel came later in conjunction with it for those reasons, but not the other way around.


again, I'm not trying to give a history thesis here dude, I'm just explaining the design intent and the role of 7" of dwell time.  I mean, it sounds like we both agree that's the "Avogardo's number" or whatever I called it originally.  lol, that was my only point man.  That there is a method behind the madness of all the various gas and barrel length combinations, and the issue of dwell time is the common thread that brings some combos to the top over others.

And primarily refuting the dumb fuck comment of that other dude with actual reasons.  But you can take the reins on the history portion man, I'm cool with that.
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 6:15:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Are the pig-tail pistol gas tubes finally gone, or is that still a thing?
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 6:49:11 PM EDT
[#16]
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