See, from this description, you describe your main strong points as “I have a job and won’t cheat on you.” Great. That’s the basic minimum. And you say a woman’s value is solely in a transient characteristic that she has limited control over and will necessarily disappear. What do you bring to the table? Bare bones basics, a lot of baggage, and a bad attitude. You lost your opportunity at a good woman not because the supply is so very limited, but because you have rendered yourself a really bad choice. You are the fat blue haired sour faced feminist. I mean, what good woman wants to know that her man thinks her only worth is skin deep? That he only sticks around as long as he thinks she’s pretty? That her character, her accomplishments, her values, and her dreams mean nothing once her appearance fades? And what good man thinks that way?

That may be wrong; I don’t know you. But that’s what you’ve presented.

as the bullriders say:  it ain't the years, boys, it's the miles.

OP bailed and wailed.

game over, man, game over.  

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I may have done a poor job describing myself here, especially if you think all I have to offer is a job and wont cheat.

My opinion is that a womans TRUE value has nothing to do with appearance. I am saying the typical modern American woman has no TRUE value, thereby reducing herself to appearance only. Remember, I have done the good husband thing ( mostly, I do certainly have faults ). I personally believe I am a better man than most American men, and am a better catch than modern American men. But that is not what most modern American women want. I truly believe 30-40yrs ago and before, I would be very much in demand. But the time has passed for good people in the US to prosper. It is now how cool you are, how much money you have, how attractive you are. Not true value.

I do have baggage and a bad attitude. Cannot deny that.

If you believe there is not a shortage of good women ( and men ) in the USA you are terribly out of touch with the modern populace.

I cant tell my life story here, but I cared about their dreams, accomplishments etc. I put my last ex through dental assistant school while we were separated a few yrs before divorce ( for her and my sons benefit). She never once worked in the field. Thankfully it was only a couple of thousand dollars. Then she wanted to be a flight attendant. Despite my ( correct) misgivings I cared for my stepdaughter ( her daughter ) and my son for months while she was out of town in training, then many, many weeks while she was out if town based in another city/state. For her. And she popped up pregnant with another dudes baby. Supported her dreams and the state tried to make me pay child support on another mans baby.

That is the price of being a "good man" in modern America. I have repeatedly paid the price for doing my duty as a good husband and all I got was used. Goddamn right I have an attitude

I’m just here to say it sounds like you have been through a lot. Sorry buddy.

You aren’t necessarily wrong on your views. They are negative, but they aren’t wrong. It’s just that it serves you no benefit if we all pile on and go deeper down that hole.

The world is much the way you describe in this modern era, unfortunately.

Yet, good women still exist. There are many.

With a little luck, and a loss of your cynicism you will hopefully see that again.

Whatever you choose, just be happy with the decision. No regrets.

Stay single and choose to enjoy it. Or pursue a relationship and enjoy it, for better or worse.

Just don’t hang your head, and don’t be a woe is me type. You will have a self-fulfilling prophecy if you do not alter your mindset.

You are better than that my man. As always, good luck.

How about this one. First wife. Stay at home mom. Waited 3yrs before first kid was born. I was introduced to her by a coworker. She is his daughter. To this day, despite being divorced 17ys now, we still keep in touch. He loves me. I went to see him 2 weeks ago after he got home from surgery.

After about 5yrs she starts talking to other guys, but supposedly didnt cheat. Went to counseling etc. No help. 2 kids now. Eventually catch her messaging a guy that flat out is trying to do her. We have words. Says he loves married women cuz they are easy. She dropped him cuz that pissed her off. "Friends" with a new married guy. More counseling. Counselor asks her what she would do if I told her it was him, or me. She crosses her arms, looks at me and says "bye". About a yr goes by and she wants to work so I change my work schedule to accommodate. Of course she meets a guy. Starts staying out all night making me late to work the next morning because I cant leave the 3 and 4yo kids alone. One day tells me flat out she is going to go out of town with him.

So, divorce. I held on and fought as long as any man could. Trying to do whats right. Trying to keep it together. I have paid my share of dues.

Implying I would dump someone because they got less attractive is an insult to a man that has taken so many loads of shit trying to keep it together because thats what is right. That is whats best for the kids. Ended up divorced with primary custody of my 3 and 4yo kids while she partied.

I do what is right. Not one single person that knows me will argue. Nobody.

Hmm. Just IMHO here but. In my experience, when this happens, the person it happened to?
Had the rotten luck of being raised/living with/around Cluster B, narcissism, or BPD.
They got stuck with either a maladjusted parent, or friend, or girlfriend, or wife (and often, multiple people ) and think some things are normal that aren't.
I'm talking about relationship rules, about healthy reciprocation, etc.

If you had TWO women who cheated on you, and you believe in your heart of hearts you did everything you could once upon a time?
There's a chance you're right. It MIGHT have been the women; I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, just with how common this dynamic is.
The little things you were putting up with might not have been little.

You might know that NOW and didn't then.

But it's sad - people who can simply trade other people on a whim, very easily?
Who can give their word to someone and just break it easily?
They might have had a personality disorder. They really might have.
Do I think there's a lot more people in society now who act that way? Yes, yes I do.

But it's not everyone, and thank fucking God for that.

If there truly was a good one out there waiting for me, my attitude would be different. My attitude is the result of many years of experience and observation.
Chance is a thing in life. Sucks, but it's true.
You watch a guy "Do everything right" in his career, and you watch it get ruined because they ran into someone above them that didn't like them, and was willing to destroy their life to protect themselves.
You watch someone lose a child
You watch a few shitty things like that happen, and after about a dozen you're cleansed of the idea that life is always fair, and always on rails, and always good, and there are always very good reasons for things with happy linings to them. I say that as someone who is a bit on the optimistic side by nature.

But brother She^TM ain't waiting for us. We're males, we're men, man-ness is that drive to rebuild the village after it's destroyed, or staying out on the hunt 1 day longer to bring back some food.
Besides, as men we're better build to handle rejection than women are, it's kinda our role
I have no fuckin idea if there is a lady out there for me, but I have a choice in what to do about it.
I'm going to try to find her.

I think that's the choice we have as men



This is our male nature betraying us, when guys say things like this.
Don't get me wrong, the visual component is hard to shake for men, it's basically what testosterone is.
Hospice nurses often say that's the last part of the male brain to go.
His memory might be gone, he might not know he once bowled a perfect game, but he knows he's a boob-guy, thaaat's for sure.

But no matter how pretty a girl is, man if she's bad news, she's bad fucking news.

A friend of mine got divorced, got back into dating - my worry at first?
Was that he was going to find a woman with the same broken personality, only she was going to be more attractive
His career is going well, he's dropped some weight, he's a good deal for a lady - and has some degree of (mortal) options.
But I spent a lot of time telling him to avoid beautiful and bratty women, (and went into depth on the clinical terms).

That I think is the male test.
For women when they have options - it's understanding what's a man who will commit and stay, and who is trying to hit it and quit it.
When a man has some degree of options, it's understanding NOT to give his time/attention to a succubus.
She might be pretty, seductive, all that - but if she's bad news, she's bad news, and a guy has to use his self control and walk.



I'm not cool at all. I'm as "cool" as a summer day, in the fucking Philippines.

I don't know how you are in the world, we've not met. But maaaaan, in life people really do pick up on things even when we don't tell them.
Man as I read the posts in this thread, to ME, albeit I'm a trained observer, it's like the sound a car makes when the brakes are shot.
I can hear it from across the street.
A lot of the girls can probably tell too.

I'm not sure it's that you're not "fun", or, you can't do magic tricks or anything - brother I think you're miserable and they can smell that.

If you're quiet and don't volunteer it, that's not the only way people communicate. Nature is smarter than people think.



I do think that we have a BAD cultural rot, and a lot of modern women are undateable brats with ridiculous "standards".
That it's a larger swath of the dating pool than we as a society can admit in public without losing our jobs or getting uninvited to parties.

HOWEVER.
While the male wiring for fertile women that evolved over thousands of years is there, so is the female desire for certain old-world male qualities.
Ever notice that woke leftie girls often DON'T date male feminists.
Oh what's this, her boyfriend is a classically masculine man?
Shocked I say! Shocked.




I disagree

Pause the game film here. This IS a red-flag.
I don't mean male friends - that's okay.
What I mean is, I think you're under-selling this section for brevity, and that there's a ton more detail you can add, and the detail is damning.
"Went to counseling, no help"
- Here's the thing. She didn't think there was anything wrong with what she was doing, she didn't want help.

This is a checkmark for her having a personality disorder.



My understanding of it - describing it in as few words as possible, narcissism is like a self importance with its own gravitational pull.
When you caught her, she didn't care.
When he embarrassed her by calling her easy (low value) and it hurt her ego? She dropped him.

this is another checkmark.


Pause the gamefilm.
This is not normal.
This is another "she has a personality disorder" checkmark.
she is throwing this in your face.
Here's the line this post ends with, "I do what is right. Not one single person that knows me will argue. Nobody."
Read that, then re-read what happened in the counselor's office.

Brother the horrible truth is, while there were likely earlier moments, THIS is the moment to eject.
Ejector seat activated, get to a therapist to sew up the bite wounds before they get infected.



This was likely the goal.


So she's being an irresponsible brat. I'm not going to throw the line at you "bEcAuSe YoU LeT HeR" for attaboy points.
I'm just saying, maaaan this is NOT normal, this is NOT okay, and you do not get virtue points for putting up with it.
The right thing to do, the hard thing to do, is to stand up to them and put up some hard fuckin boundaries, FAST.


She gets to drop her toys on you and go have fun, because she just does not value anyone the way she values herself. A self importance with its own gravity.
Another checkmark for a personality disorder.

She was probably a shit mother if we're being honest.
She likely "loved the kids" as much as she COULD love someone else, but that's not consistent, fair, or real.



What sucks is, the "Right" things to do, weren't immediately obvious
Less so to someone who lived for years in an environment that the crazy-person constructed.
All 5,000 of their little rules (That often change) to prevent them from melting down.
The inevitable fight where they say every horrible thing about you they can think of, true or not - because you had the GALL to accurately recite something they said/did.
End result: "You both apologize".
Translation: YOU say 90% of the real sorries, and AFTER you do, they give 1 segment of a dried out olive branch.


So there's no bank of relationships that looks at this and goes,
"Oh goddamn, you have $4million in 'putting up with bullshit' credit! To the front of the lineee, get this guy a twerking tiktok nurse "
No.
There are no dues.
That is not a thing.

This woman was crazy, and the next one was probably crazy too.
To someone who thinks the other behaviors they had were normal (that it was only the cheating that was wrong), they accidentally wave these women through in the dating phases, missing out on the tells



Good on you for taking care of the little ones when she dipped.
That's a tough one, damn

But on the last one.
What sucks is, "putting up with it" was the WRONG thing.

I cant respond to all of this, but I guess the main one is this: It sounds insane in modern times, but I only believe in divorce in very limited circumstances. Infidelity being the main one. I failed in many ways, but I held on and tried to get past the other issues( the counseling is an example, I absolutely hate counseling/psychiatry etc ) and tried to keep the family together with both wives until they clearly physically cheated. With the first one, when she cheated blatantly it was almost a relief that I was now justified in divorce. After the first 2 decent years, the remaining 5yrs of marriage were hell. I didnt want my kids living in a divorced home. Didnt want to only see them on weekends ( which in most cases is almost a guarantee). I wanted them to grow up with both parents as they should.

To me whats "right" and right for me are two different things. I choose what is right to my detriment and it has cost me emotionally. I am certainly quite bitter and doubt it will ever subside.

Eta: reading my own post, I guess that makes me one of those that likes to play the role of martyr. Dunno

Thank you. I do actually enjoy being single. I am very much enjoying the peaceful existence! If it werent for the normal business owner issues, things would be nearly perfect now. ( but I wouldnt have as much money haha ). My 15yo son lives with me, and hasnt gotten to the stage where they hate you yet. My daughter moved back in temporarily after coming back from college. The last few weeks have been pretty entertaining with her around. They are closer than ever now.

GD : Duuuuude just work out brah , it's easy . If you don't look like this you're a beta bucks loserrrrrr.

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Idk if you have to hear this from someone else but.
Man you have to forgive yourself for punching out. That woman was killing you, she was actually killing you - but perhaps, worse in a way.
She was sucking out the best parts of you, while you were alive.
Doing, possibly permanent damage.

There are times that ejecting is the right course of action.



So the women you had - narcissists (at least the first one was, second one likely was, possibly a different type of one), they're VERY good at fooling counselors.
They're VERY good at winding up the other person in public.
THOSE people won't "fix' themselves, because, they're sure they don't need to be fixed.
They don't WANT to be fixed.
They want the attention and supply of the counselor, and if they don't get it, they move on.

someone who knows what they're looking at might be good for YOU, because what YOU need is for a few dripping internal wounds to be sewn closed.
YOU are open to changing, at least I think so.
You are a different case from those women, I think you're curable.




I hear you, but you also don't want your little ones to marry someone like Mama.
People can stay married and have an abusive household, were shitty things get normalized, and they are set up to fail.
They have money, they have things, they have toys, but they only have 1 parent who loves them unconditionally.
And they have another parent who is prone to flying off the handle, because one of their invisible landmines was stepped on.

That SECOND experience being normalized to them is harmful.


I think in here, buried deep in this idea, is that whole "persevere through the pain to get the goal" thing us men take, at times, too literally.
There's a time self preservation is appropriate.


You were TRYING to do what was right.
But what if, in terms of the mechanics of the situation, "winning" wasn't something you were going to be allowed to do?
There weren't, 100 steps that if followed in sequence were going to fix the situation?

You had to forgive yourself, plug up your wounds, and go.



Well look. For a LONG TIME your partners (and possibly others in your life) firehosed a lot of shit onto you.
They probably projected onto you. They were probably horrible and insulting. They probably did a lot you aren't telling us - and you don't owe me, or us, anything. You don't have to share it.

BUT, you probably had to develop a tool or two or three to TRY to survive it.
Maybe not all those tools are good ones.

A GOOD therapist, or someone to talk to, can help you figure out which tools are appropriate, and maybe which ones have jagged handles that cut you when you use them.

I think you need to re-map your "friend or foe" system a bit. It took a very bad beating, more than once, over years.
It'll take effort to fix.
Figure out what's healthy and what isn't - some of those women probably gaslit you a long time.
But you've got to re-make your views on things, then yourself.

I wish I'd have read this before spending the last half hour watching Dr. Ramani's videos on Youtube trying to find the one that might help you the most.  

Again, complete bullshit.

So here’s the thing: you made some bad decisions. You’ve said nothing about these women other than what went wrong at then end. No idea how you picked them, why you picked them, or why you made the same mistake twice, but IMHO, that’s relevant. You have a bad track record, either in picking women with personality disorder issues or in severely neglecting your relationships to the point that the women just want out. I’m inclined to think the former, but the latter happens often enough that I’m not dismissing it as a possibility.

Now you have a history of bad decisions and the baggage that comes with them, and you’re applying that to all future relationships. Big fucking red flag there. Future women aren’t responsible for what your exes did, nor are they responsible for fixing your damage. And while you may have previously been willing to see women as more than just a body, your comments that “modern American women have nothing to offer but their appearance” indicates that current you doesn’t subscribe to that notion any longer. Sure, you put an ex through school. That’s in the past. That has nothing to do with the woman you might meet tomorrow and the fact that you already assume she has nothing more to offer you than her appearance. You are poisoning your future by living in your past, and you are making future women pay for the pain of that past. You live your life on your terms and do as you please, but no decent woman will want to take any of that on. You are ensuring that your own prophecy will be fulfilled.

You have a daughter, and your opinion is that all she has to offer a man is her body?

Seriously? I have been using qualifiers like "most" and "typical". I dont believe that all of anything ( or anyone ) are the same.

Eta: I want to make it clear, I do not believe all women are trash. Just the vast majority of American women. Excluding family ( because of obvious bias ), I can think of few good ones. My most recent mother in law is one ( my ex is like her dad, not mother ). She is solid, no bs, no drama, gainfully employed, put herself through college, frugal with money and by all accounts a successful human being.

Ex sister in law is mostly the same. Of course, her husband ( exwifes brother ) has cheated multiple times and their marriage is struggling.

I appreciate the effort, I just believe people wont change until they want to. Counseling can help if someone actually wants to fix things. My experience is that rarely do both spouses actually want to fix things. And I am certainly guilty of fixating on right and wrong vs fixing the relationship. One of my faults.

No, I meant for you to be able to recognize why you attract personality disordered women, understanding the damage they've done to you and how you can work on healing, and how to notice the signs and prevent yourself from getting tangled up with another one.  

It's almost unheard of for someone to come out of a relationship with a narcissist or other personality disordered partner and not have significant trauma.  They just chalk it up to a *bad relationship*.  That ain't the half of it.

Cant argue with most of this. I have made it clear in other posts that my choice in women is a major fault.

As always, the relationships started out well. A couple of good years then went downhill. They were both sweet, caring people. As long as I kept them happy. But in the end I couldnt keep them happy long term. The first ex has shown that nobody can and has been divorced again, along with dozens of men ( that I know about ). He ex husband was literally institutionalized for a short period, first voluntarily, then changed his mind and jumped out of the ambulance at a stop sign ( not exaggerating). After that they caught him and made it involuntary.

Second one still has it in her mind that we are dating, while living with her mother. I am partially at fault for this due to having sex with her a few times after the divorce. ( yeah, Im an idiot, but it has been maybe 6-8mo now? )

Good news is my "boys" have gotten used to celibacy and the blue color has dissipated haha.

Ok maybe thats inappropriate but I thought it was funny

I only have what you type to go on, and you’ve said multiple times in this thread:



Still stands to reason that if you are approaching relationships with that attitude and mindset leading, the ones you want won’t stick around long and you will miss out on a lot of opportunities.

I disagree. I dated a mid-30s single girl recently who had her life together. Studying to be a criminal investigator, unpretentious, comfortable with herself, her looks and her sexuality, passionate, treated me like a king and actually responded to and appreciated being treated well.

Wait, shit, she was from Venezuela.

Guess you're right

ETA: The last two dates I've been on with American girls ended with one standing me up with no communication or explanation and the other was an okay date but we never spoke again after. Granted I don't date much, but women are in a pretty sad state in the US.

Nah - he prob already has another thread cooking...same BS

LOL

Red

I'm divorcing and upgraded to a younger model. I'm 61 and she's 55!

Don't disagree a bit. I been in same position.

No.
This is what OATT meant when she talked about the Good Dr.
Guaran-friggin-tee those women had issues, and that to OTHERS (and not all people), they might have been possible to see and spot, and early.
I suspect due to your past experiences, those behaviors, attitudes, things those women were doing- you couldn't spot those issues and ID them as issues.
Those are NOT things to work through, but serious mechanical defects those women had.

Repeat.
The Dr. Ramani video reference is not for some instruction manual to decoding those personalities to give you the exact right special magic ways to have defused them.
No.
It's about understanding those personality types have serious mental-mechanical challenges. They almost certainly aren't going to change. No matter how much you love(d) them.
They wounded you badly, and damaged your radar.



Nice caring people don't need everything to go perfectly well, and their partners, and families, and coworkers to be obedient at all times to be happy
Nice caring people = damn near 365, not 65 out of 365.


There it is. Totally conditional. They trained you.
Someone having to walk on eggshells and tip toe around and do gymnastics to keep 1 person from exploding, "Because that's not how HerpDerp wants it" can be a sign of a narcissist in the picture.

There's a line between compromises people make in relationships, and "it's damn near 100 to 0, and any perceived sleight =verbal nuclear war" is not normal.
Particularly when they don't realllly reciprocate anything at all.

In my experience I think the first things people usually miss about their narcissistic partner, is:
- That person is shockingly arrogant.
- They don't do boundaries
- Any perceived sleight they have can earn a "Court case", a 45minute verbal assault
- Something shitty they did, "get over it."
- If someone normal says no to them or one of their ridiculous, over the top, self serving requests? They turn into a pouting 4 year old. Tantrum really is the word.




There it is. No one can keep them happy, because those people are naturally miserable. Clinical case personality disorders.
They have issues regulating their self esteem.
You have to unpack what was wrong with them, the relationships, what normal is supposed to look like (and you do not know what this looks like, at all).

This is so, if in a few years after therapy you meet someone, and you get to that date?
And this woman starts spouting some nonsense and running down the waiter - then makes a joke to you?
You know who she really is.


Crazy people often attract crazy people. They think it's normal.

People raised in narcissistic households, often find narcissists.
Narcissists often find partners who are their supply/minions.
2 Narcissists together MIGHT "love" eachother, for a short time, to the extent that they can love someone else.
But it will probably burn hot and bright.
First real sign of trouble, they want to trade to another person, neither having the interpersonal skills "glue" to make a good, healthy, stable relationship work.

I don’t ask for much, but if Op was genuine he could update us a little.

Op’s date recaps energize my personal self-worth, and my fuel tank is runnin’ low without it.

At least give us a wardrobe update man.

Hes not wrong, not sure how old you are but women aren't the same creatures they were even 10 years ago.

I am early 30s and witnessed the change in women and the dating market thanks to things like feminism, social justice, brainwashing, social media, online dating, instagram, snapchat, onlyfans, tiktok etc
So many single mothers, so many making a living showing their butthole on cam, so many on the gov tit, so many depressed and on medication, so many lost souls.

Good women are the extreme minority now so its safer to just tread lightly and think of them ALL as toxic users imo.

Well, it's not like I really have a basis of comparison, but I'd guess I'm average in that respect. But I am also 100% against casual sex - I strongly believe that sex should be reserved for committed relationships.



If you want to base this off of friends and acquaintances, my experience would be the polar opposite of yours, in that the overwhelming majority (like ~90%) of women I know fall into the "good" category.

But I'm not going to say that is representative of the general population. The reality is somewhere in the middle; neither are all women trash, nor are all women great. Same goes for men, too - plenty of dirtbag guys out there.

That adds clarity, and I should have phrased it more politely. I meant no disrespect.

LoL. 3 years is nothing.

My BIL is 52 and he was remarried 5 years ago. His wife is mid 30's. Spends her whole fucking day on TikToc on the phone.

Meh. I see good people, female and male, finding each other, falling in love, getting married, having babies, celebrating anniversaries, and growing old together. I see this happening every day. Sure, there are more single moms. More single dads too. Toxic feminism has affected plenty of people too, both men and women.

If you assume that good people of the opposite sex are going to be nearly impossible to find and treat all of them like they’re toxic, you’ll never find a healthy person or be able to form a healthy relationship. Healthy people don’t put up with being treated like they’re awful, and they don’t spend time trying to build a bond with someone who treats them that way.

Mental health pro tip: do the ex sister-in-law and the ex mother-in-law and it will go a long way toward healing you. Nothing quite like getting even utilizing the females closest to her.

To quote the great philosopher Tim Wilson: "She didn't accidentally get good in bed."

Like a parking spot at walmart either handicapped or way the fuck out there*

I borrowed this from another member, no idea who but thanks

THIS!

I have not read this thread and I am sure it has drifted many times.  As far as dating older women, be careful.  To borrow a phrase from Elvin Bishop, you just might "fool around and fall in love."  It happened to my husband.

We never had children of our own.  He has been a good stepfather to my son when my son was alive (RIP Matt) and to my daughter.  He has been a loving Grampie to three grandchildren.  He has a favorite and he could not love that kid more than if he was his own flesh and blood.  He is now the proud Grampie of ten great-grandchildren (one step and one, little Elli, that got her angel wings much too soon but I always include her in the count).  I know the tales of Grampie will be passed down to another generation and maybe even one more after that.  

The funny thing is in his family his sister would have been a great grandmother, but neither of her children, either through a condition of their own or their partners, were able to have children.  A while back he visited his brother, a "confirmed" bachelor if you get my drift.  He was telling me that his brother had a complete meltdown over the fact that he does not a family and he is in his 60s and all alone.  It really shook up my husband.  I told him you may not realize it, but you are the lucky one.  You have all these kids around you.

A few days ago he was talking to his sister on face time and talking about the kids (we had two of the great-grandchildren born in the last month).  He said to her, "You know, I am the lucky one."

So be careful, guys.  You might get lucky.

I dont deny that you see that happening personally, but statistics are showing the opposite unfortunately.


Women are nuts now and men have given up lol

If you look for something, you will find it.

If you believe something doesn’t exist, you won’t see it if it’s standing in front of your face.

so, I've seen the sea change over time too.
I will agree there's a big chunk of the female dating market that's radioactive, and I really think it's larger today than it was in years past.
Think about this, did our Fathers say, "Ah the women in those days freaked out when they heard I voted for Reagan".
I feel terrible for the 18 year old guys of today, hooooly shiiit. They never even know what the world used to look like.

But I have a theory on this.
IMHO this woke cultural rot is NOT evenly distributed. I personally believe it's actually, by ratio and number, worse/better in places where the Hollyweird/leftie cultural ideas are strongest/weakest.
Meaning, in dark blue cities in dark blue states, you'll see more of that degeneracy.

In places of the country (Real America Flyover Country^TM) where you see a lot of old fashioned values still part of the conversation?
Where the wokeness ratio is smaller? IMHO, the dating pool isn't QUITE as bad.
That's my current belief.

I'm in a coastal state with high taxes, low freedoms, and people flee this state.
I see a lot of the bullshit you're talking about.

BUT, I think we (the manosphere) are giving those Thots too much attention by accident.
We're so aghast at what's going on, I do think we're accidentally overstating it.
I do however believe reasonable people can disagree on where the lines are.

Off the top of my head, I'd say today, in my region?
30%+ are toxic brats that are of low quality and to be avoided.
The middle 40% Not really either good or bad. Just average-ish.

20% are in a "good wife/solid stable relationship" category.
9% are GREAT wives. The bottom 30% and some of the bottom middle will talk shit about this woman the SECOND she leaves the room, because her existence is a threat.
1% Unicorns, mythical beasts, the kind of good girls that you don't think exist at all.

I do believe that 3 in 10 are good picks. I don't think they're 90% toxic.
To me, I think 3 in 10 is a makeable shot
For me at least.

The list you posted about narcissists fits my ex-wife perfectly. She's a walking stereotype for narcissism and arrogance.

Are you sure?

I wouldn't call it dating but I do have lunch every week or two with one of my older friends, she is mid 70's but I enjoy talking to a rational person and not listening to some vapid drama queen

So let's say for a moment that the hunch is right, that she might be a clinical case.
Just so the fellas reading understand how fixable it isn't:
Cases that bad?
There's no like "fixing" them. There's no, one conversation that's going to make them understand things.

It is stuck in their Operating System.

Even with a real professional's help, and time, and a ton of effort (like years), they're going to move a little bit.
And that's if they really try.

What's interesting is, at least from the reading I've done, it appears that when they get stressed out, that's when the bullshit flares up.
And again, this is someone who has a TON of things that can stress them out and upset them.
They do NOT have a normal person's self esteem regulation, they have one where the needle flies back and forth, often with their mood, and there may not be good reasons for it.

We are discussing reality here, not something you heard in a Whitney Houston song.