I believe he is saying the thing I often say, which is that doing those things is no guarantee of receiving female interest.

As I've said, you should improve your fitness, find fulfilling hobbies, seek knowledge, get out and active, etc. because they are good things in and of themselves. If they happen to improve your desirability to the fairer sex, then that's just a bonus - and not one that should be expected.

ETA - To further clarify, doing those things can increase your desirability and open up options, as it seems was your case. But in other cases, they seem to have little or no effect.

@Geralt55

I fear I might have taken this thread way off course by bitching about my narcissistic ex-wife, so I won't go too much deeper into it (in this thread, at least...maybe another time).  Just saying thanks for your analysis, because it was pretty much spot-on.

One last comment about it: For those who are unfamiliar with the perils of being with a narcissist, just know that they will wear you down over time, to the point that you feel about an inch tall.  Years and years of nearly constant criticism 24/7, insults about literally anything they can think of (in my case whenever we had an argument, she would turn it into her insulting my weight, looks, clothing, income, career, parenting, driving, tell me I was worthless....and on and on), turning arguments and fights back around on you and bringing up everything they think you've ever done wrong, so the focus of the fight is now on you instead of them.  They truly believe they are never wrong, ever.  They blame you for everything, usually without proof.  They will talk shit to other people about you behind your back (mine did, even while we were still married).  They will use you and other people to get what they want.  Nothing you do will ever be good enough for them, or done fast enough, or "up to their standards".  Which is ironic, since they are complaining about things while never lifting a finger of their own to help out.

The Narcissist's Prayer:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.

---------------------------

My ex-wife went from someone who was starry-eyed and head-over-heels in love with me in college, and did things like voluntarily taking 2 semesters of SCUBA classes just so she could participate in my favorite hobby with me....to someone who wouldn't lift a finger to help me do anything around the house, constantly found new and creative ways to insult me and hurt me, and talked shit about me behind my back to other people while we were married.  Somewhere in there something clicked in her head and she just changed.  Still not sure what.

wow OP checked out on like page 10 and this is still going.

Yeah, the gals are keeping it stirred up. Always trying to stir shit, those Arfchicks.

It’s not about better integrating, otherwise it would be ‘settling’.  As much as I have a fascination with psychology and personalities, I love meeting new people and hearing their story, and their decision-making processes.  But just because we can talk and have great conversation, and even if you’re ‘pretty’ too, doesn’t mean you’re material for what I’m looking for.  There’s a few - just a few - boxes I want checked, and then similar core values and character foundation...and the rest could be teachable.  Finding someone who checks those boxes - not for me - but in their own life for themselves, is already rare as it is.  Add in similar core values makes it even more of a stretch to be found in one package.  Everything else is teachable, and falls into place on its own.

Finding that package, if it even exists (I choose to believe it does), is not guaranteed at all.  Anytime someone I know asks if I’ve been praying for it or anything like that, I just think of God’s response in the form of Judge Smails when Danny is trying to hint at the things he wants for his life...”well the world needs ditch-diggers too...”.  Maybe some of us are destined to never find that woman and get to share a genuine, quality relationship with her, and then have a kid or few to teach them and show them what the world will not.

Instead of my normal textwalls, for these posts, I'm just going to say this.

"Ricky, you can walk."

If it helps to bring the thread back to its origins a bit, I’m in my mid-upper thirties, and my current lady-friend is 61...

Good thinking on the Social Security checks coming up, my man!

shit I'd entertain her idea....it ain't gonna happen, but why not try

Man don't be afraid to just post it, this thread is soooooooo far off the rails we jumped the track and OP isn't returning here.

Sucks man. Sounds like she was
1) A person who STARTED fights and would spring traps.
2) Even normal conversations could become fights quickly.
3) Net energy drain.
4) Dispassionately and accurately stating something they did = grounds for a fight
5) Not giving them what they want when they're in the wrong = grounds for a fight
6) Being on the other side of them and not "backing down"/not agreeing with them = justifies ANYTHING they can say.
Bonus: Everyone around them is "stubborn"



"How narcissists are made"
I don't remember if I've seen this one, but it might help you save some time parting things together.

op you need to set things up so that you have 60 different young chicks wanting to meet you suddenly within hours. i know its hard to believe but all i did was sign up for asiandating.com on my brothers computer and the following night my bro kicked me off his computer he was so jealous. im nothing special to look at and kept getting robbed trying to date local chicks so thank God i found that site.

youll need to fly there in person after picking out at least one chick to meet. once there its as if youre a millionaire because they know you are american and the chicks in philippines are all dreaming of meeting a guy from usa canada etc so bad its like the lottery for them. met my wife there later on and married her in 2014 the moment she got here on marriage visa.

2 kids now and counting and i had no idea my life would turn around like it has. she takes care of me like a baby and puts up with me like you cant imagine. no idea what that websites like today but if i were you id check it out.

the most respected people in philippines are americans and western tourists its not like other places. covid restrictions there have been lifting more and more it was 1248. per round trip plane ticket the 7 or 8 times i flew there until covid.  not sure what flights cost today but covid is finally over and my buddys wife he met there is due here in about a week now that flights are coming and going again.

i have to say one more thing and ive confirmed this with too many other americans. once youre there in country for 2 weeks you normalize to be smiled at constant and treated so nicely. its perfect weather 82 and breezy year around warm rain to play in if anything. a bushel of the best mangoes ive ever had costs 1 usd on the beach if youre lady makes the deal its like a dream compared to usa. youll want to never return home if there over the 2 weeks it takes for the happiness to set in BEWARE!!!

and you are complaining about that?

61 hells yeah...knock the cobwebs off that playa!

I'm not saying older women can't be attractive - but 61 is a weeeeeeeeeeeee bit North of what I'm fishing for

Besides.
I'd like to have kids one day, God willing.
I don't want to waste time either with short term flings.

That puts a few otherwise fine women who would be great catches for other dudes, off my radar

if GILFs are good enough for Ben Franklin, they are good enough for you.

Find a nice younger woman to have a baby with and keep the GILF girlfriend. The old lady is gonna be cool with it

Oh shit I didn't know Kevin Samuels died, totally missed that.   I was going to post "why did you say Late?" but googled it first.

Damn that sucks, he was a good man out there throwing down facts that some people didn't want to hear.

Well we both know it’s not long-term, and it’s nothing serious either.  But we do have a connection that few people ever can establish, and I’ll be taking care of her one way or the other until she moves on to the afterlife or I do.  Cancer came and got her, and she’s well enough now to want to get her training back...and that’s something that Im attracted to...no matter the age: how someone really pushes themselves towards achieving a goal, fitness or otherwise.  She showed me a photo of her at 54 that puts most all 30 year olds I’ve seen to shame.

Besides, the Ben Franklin excerpt has always had me intrigued...

She’s a lot closer to a real, traditional woman than anything of the younger sort I can find these days.

She must feel real special.

Again, please, in English.

Hey man, you know my preference for latinas.
Idk if you've dealt with a Latina before, but almost alll of the ones I've met were a liiiiittle on the "jealous" side
If I fucking JOKED that I'd do that?





Followed by a footwear attack.


Sure, I can probably lift her over my head, she can't open certain jars, yeah yeah yeah - but at some point I'll get tired and have to sleep.

"Hey Kevin I was jus- wondering if I have to Settle^TM for an average maan"
"Hold up hold up hold up.
Height? Dress size....
Weight. "

 

Rewind.
Play.

 



You like her. A lot.
And that's fine, I'm not shaming you - that age gap, hey it's not for me but, if you're cool with it, hey alright. She's a cool lady.
But don't fuckin give me this Nothing Serious^TM crap line that people give eachother (because it's socially palatable) as if they mean it,
when you full well don't REALLY mean what those words REALLY mean.
You love that woman.

I'm not going to press further, but look at your feet, not your words.
Men do things for women they love.

I think, part of the equation here for you are these 2 factors.
1) You have a current ladyfriend, that you like, admire, and you bonded with deeply
2) Part of you is wrestling with the fact that were it not for age and maybe 1 or 2 other things you'd marry this girl, or think hard about it.
But life is cruel and unfair sometimes, so it won't be so.

Of fuckin COURSE you're not really looking for anything else!
You're not really emotionally available for one.

I'm not saying that makes you a bad guy or anything, I'm just saying.




You adore this lady, she's a "near miss" for the other long term stuff, and it sucks she's in another age bracket. I get it.
I'm not going to shame you or make fun of you.

But I will suggest this idea.
Yes, she's special, I keep people too, I get it.

But there might be a lady that's, oh, even, 40? 41? who might be special too.
All I'm saying, I'll leave it there.

My parents had 27 years difference. He was older of course.

As others have said, 3 years is nothing, if you have things in common.

I wish I didn’t know what you were talking about.

Assuming this is true:

That’s an incredible story. Follow your heart. God bless.

Attached File

I know what you’re saying, but it’s really not like that.  I call her my lady friend, because she is a lady and my friend.  Do I have some extra feelings for her, yes.  Neither of us ever went into this looking for feelings.  But she and I both know, and are sobered up to, the facts of the situation, and that I’d still like to have a woman and kids.  What our situation is more of, is that I’m going to be there for her and be a man that she has never had or known,  It’s not out of sympathy, it’s not out of white-knighting (not in the least), it’s not out of trying to ‘score’ anything.  Rather, it’s a simple choice to choose to show another person love/positivity/humility/etc. without any sort of expectation of reward or getting something in return.  she doesn’t deserve it, nor has earned it.  I know her past, and what this woman has been though beginning as a toddler...stuff that she didn’t have a choice in.  

I have a deep interest in psychology and the human brain/mindset.  So when it comes to the ‘training’ I help people with, it’s expressed through workouts/physical, but all the focus is on the mind being in charge.  I love to hear people describe their decision-making process for any little thing...because I like to try and see things from their perspective.  And while each of our personalities are by design, events in our childhood begin shaping and molding us as to who we will develop into as adults, and it’s fascinating to go back and connect the dots to see how their decision-making process - for both good and bad choices - to its origins.  Sure there are tons of women who grew up in the party lifestyle and never really had to work for anything on their own, never earn anything, never experience failure to have to rebuild from.  Their entitled mindset then leads to much of the cheating choices and divorce stories that get posted frequently here.  But then there are the women (and men) who have had not just bad luck, but some poor raising and even worse things experienced in their childhood and even into young adulthood.  These traumatic things to a child play a huge role in who they become...along with the bad consequences from the snowball effect of choices they made.  Every now and then you get someone who has been aware of this within their self for a short or long amount of time, and deep down desire to make a change.  So many of them think the hole they have dug is just too deep to climb out of, or that they aren’t worth it.  For these people that truly desire to change, it’s never too late, and I do what I can to show them a way.  In the case of this woman at 61-and-counting, she now ‘has a sense of self-worth she’s never known, actually has some self-esteem, and happiness she’s never experienced’.  Her words.  That’s powerful for me.

Disclaimer: I am not pro, I have not worked with a whole lot of people, and certainly don’t make it a habit of developing feelings/hooking up with them.  It just sort of happened with her because we can connect on a level that is rare for me, as well as be able to have some very intelligent and deep conversations.  If anyone else here has an interest in energies and stuff like that, you know what I mean.  I am happy to know her, spend time with her, and genuinely care for her.  As far as “sharing” me with someone - if they ever come along for me - I’ll cross that bridge when the time comes and we will modify boundaries accordingly.  But I will be there for her and she will be a part of my life until either of us crosses the Rainbow Bridge.

Used to be so much easier.

 

I believe that you guys have talked about it, and defined it and all that - I'm not trying to take that away from you at all.
I'm going to offer this idea:

Sometimes our feelings for people are very complicated things, and even the most "unemotional" of people have very deep feelings.
The people who have great control and discipline over what they do and what they say?
Sometimes you can't help how you feel.
It's a hard thing.




I'm not shaming you, I'm not saying you don't have your reasons - But I'm going to put forward THIS idea.
Those shitlords over on theredpill once upon a time stumbled onto something.

For women, women will largely be kind to most people - that's not the "special" part. The threshold that gets passed to be significant, is when she gives someone mating rights.
THOSE men she will be selective about. This is why guys get on other guys for being in the friendzone or "Simping".
"You're pouring time, energy, money, and resources into this girl and it's not going to go anywhere."

For MEN, (in an environment where pregnancy isn't a big deal), they'll have sex with a TON of people.
Look at gay men, where you have TWO male sex drives and no one is getting pregnant. The partner counts can easily get astronomical.
The threshold that gets passed to be significant, is a man's emotions, his care and his give a shit.
I don't necessarily mean being friends, I mean a line beyond that, perhaps say, some level of devotion.

This is why often times in couples counseling the man will ask his wife, when he fears she's stepped out on the marriage,
"Did you sleep with him?"

A wife fearing her husband stepped out,
"... did you love her?"






I'm not going to take this away from you, but.
I'm just going to say the bond you have with this lady is deep, and it's not UN-complicated.
If we're being honest, if she was a beautiful young lady, we might call this a Situationship.
Situationships are fucking messy.

She fed you some affirmation, some kind words, some meaning to what you're doing, and coming from a woman you like?
The value is stupid high on that stuff.
I get it.

Rebecca Lynn Pope said men need 3 things to fall in love.
1) She's his type, he's very attracted to her physically.
2) They can be friends, he can be vulnerable with her.
3) She brings out the best in him.

Just inspecting the parts involved here in what you're saying, and how you're saying it -
I'm watching an unemotional/mechanical guy (that's you brother ), the way you describe her and the things you admire about her -

All I'm putting forward is this idea:
You like her more than you understand. I know you have your longterm goals and all that but.
Even ending situationships like this are fuckin complicated. You guys have 2 people's worth of emotions in the calculus here.





A few things here

Man, not every girl is going to be cool with it. I know you might feel like, "Well if she can't put up wi-"
Brother. I'm just saying, this is kind of a big deal for some women. If there are feelings and emotions, not every woman will be cool with this.
It's a tough one and it's not simple or a little thing for them. All I'm saying.

There's a level PAST this.
Imagine a woman who has everything this one has, PLUS, at some point you two have children.
She's the best person you've ever met, and you look down at this little crying kid and you see her eyes.
You watch the little one make that facial expression you do sometimes. The little one's never seen you do it, you're not aware that you do it - but your wife sure is, she points it out to you.
What a miracle right?
I think THAT is one of the components in the top level of relationships.
Just my opinion

Lastly: Man it's going to be very hard for her to watch you move on.
She will simultaneously be happy for you, and quite possibly a little devastated.


Weird things can happen when you bring around the new lady.
- You might have a friends act strange all of a sudden. If she's very pretty you might have MALE friends have issues if they feel it reset a dominance hierarchy or their opinion of themselves.
- You might find out there were girls who liked you and never said anything
- You might be surprised how many people will do the verbal equivalent of hosing you with champagne, and just reach out to high five you
- A woman you passed on, will probably compare herself to the girl you've got now.  
That one can be difficult to watch.


I'm droning on pretty badly, even for me
But, just contemplate the idea that the ice you're walking on is a smidge thinner in some spots than it might seem. Man, be careful.

Believe me when I say that she and I both have already been bringing this subject up.  I am very aware of just how thin and slippery the ice I’m on is, and I know there’s going to be more hidden, thinner spots too no matter how careful I try to be.  It’s going to be interesting nonetheless.  The biggest thing is finding a balance.  She brings it up the most, about “when a woman comes along...”, and how she wants that ‘so much’ for me...she knows she has to share.  However it goes, she always concludes with “it’s been worth it”.  Sure there’s bound to be more emotion and complication to be had, but I do like to see that we have reality front and center at all times.  But at the same time, the reality is I’m going to have to bring her along IF, and when, a woman comes along...no different than meeting someone new and having to bring up “I have a kid” or “I care for my mom”.  Easier said than done, sure.  I just cannot on a good conscience give up on her or walk away simply because of something newer, shinier, and younger comes along.  My plan is to just adjust boundaries, as I’m sure time is going to be already doing that for us...

Back to more of the main subject we had been discussing these past few pages before THIS new twist, the way I see it is I’m just trying to make the most out of my time and do some good/leave someone better than how I found them...before my time is up.  That’s what has bothered me the most each day as I, and some of the other recent posters have been experiencing: the reality of knowing the clock is ticking, and you don’t get a re-do or even a staggered start that’s fair with everyone else.  I don’t want to settle or drop standards just to be able to move forward with life, but I also don’t want to use up all of my time waiting/trying to find something I may not be destined to find...only to hear “pencils down!” Before I can even begin taking the test...  this Situationship is obviously very un-conventional, but at least I’m trying to use my time wisely and do a little good with something to show for it before time is up.

Either way, what you and I have been discussing these past few posts will hopefully shed some perspective for anyone else looking into this thread for why it was originally written!  

He may have bailed on this thread, but you may have missed out on his vasectomy thread.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/I-think-I-m-getting-a-Vasectomy/5-2558652/

This screenshot is a good representation of the majority of my marriage, in a nutshell. I frequently felt like I needed to record everything my (now-ex) wife was saying, because she swore up and down that she said something different than what I remember.  Gaslighting will truly make someone question their grip on reality.

going over there now.

I’m not going to spend time trying to quote the specifics in this post and others, but I just want to say to you, @Geralt55…

I’ve got a lot of experience dealing with great women (but very little dealing with shitty or modern women).  The one I’ve been married to for 3+ decades, and several I have had work for me for nearly as long (and become extremely close with) as well as some who I have been friends with since high school 35+ years ago (some now married to long-time friends, some married to guys I didn’t know before, and some just great friends but un-married, divorced, etc.).

But you’ve got a damn PhD in this shit.  Seriously.  A better deep understanding of the interactions, intricacies, manipulations, & mental gymnastics b/t man & woman than most people ever will.  As well as the gift of gab/way with words.  I don’t know what you do for a living, but you need to capitalize on your knowledge and understanding of the relationship dynamic while there is a demand for it.

If my format is fucked, forgive me, I'm new here. This is for Machinist.

I've read back the past couple pages of this thread and there is too much to say. Unfortunately I can only relate to what you've been expressing. I'm sorry for your personal history with the relationship that you've endured. This is all too familiar to me. Growing up I knew a lot of great people, and watched marriage after marriage fail, for any number of reasons.  I've gotten to the point where I too view genuine relationships as almost something to avoid entirely. A healthy number of people really don't have shit to offer and want the world for it, though I mostly blame the Disney-esque social conditioning that we are all subject to as kids, and that love is unconditional, and Happily Ever After is pretty much a guarantee. Everything that movies, books and social media would have us believe is a fantasy. I've made an effort to avoid getting emotionally entangled with women to solely focus on myself. It comes across as selfish and in poor taste, and my friends patronize me for it, while simultaneously locked in a relationship that is emotionally and psychologically damaging, not to mention the toll it takes on theirs careers, hobbies, and social lives. It's not that I'm misogynistic by any means, in fact quite the opposite, I've just yet to see a living example of the reward that justifies the risk worth taking. At this point I'm single and doing well for myself, and will continue to do so. It's not that I don't desire a genuine loving relationship, I just accept the harsh reality of the odds that it will be that and not a life-altering mistake. I.E. Not worth it.


Now what I clicked on this thread to come say was older women fuck like animals, highly recommended. Dating them though? I got nothing, my concept of love is fucked.

3 years older isn’t older unless you’re less than 10.

Welcome, new guy. You chose an interesting thread for your first post, but if you're at least getting some pussy from old women, you're better off than a lot of these losers in here that don't even like girls.

It is my belief that God created darkness so old women could get laid.

Ben Franklin Approves!

Here in Janeville, we begin each day with a dramatic reading from Franklin’s Advice To A Younger Man.

People like that "Train" the people around them with their moodyness and vindictiveness.
See, they're not moody, you just needed to stay within the 700 rules (that always change and only apply one way)
"Well WE BOTH go out of hand (In that argument they initiated, escalated, and said unforgiveable things - where YOUR crime was repeating back to them what they said in shock) so we both need to apologize"

It's funny.

Questions:
Was she a "1-upper"?
If someone else say had a bigger wedding, or did something better than she did - did her behavior change?

Are you talking age 45 older or post-menopausal older?  My experience and observation agree with your statement for the 45 year-olds.  Not so much with the post-menopausal women.

I have a lot of respect for what you've seen and what you've lived man.
Bullshit little things about "what works and what doesn't" in today's "modern" dating landscape - we talk a lot about those in todays threads and blah blah blah.
But, that aside, I really value a lot of the serious and honest posts people like you and others have made.

There's a difference between people coming in to beat their chests, and people explaining WHAT they saw, and HOW they went to the Superbowl and won in their own time/era.
I respect you and what you've done in your life.
I'd be blessed to get married and stay married for a few decades the way you have.
It's why I'll do this as long as I have to I think it's worth the effort.

And ideally, I think as guys figure this out?
If we all take a few buddies with us, we can turn society around
At least, a few acres of it.



Man you're too kind
I think about it from time to time, I guess I'm just not sure where/how to interface with it you know?
Maybe I should.

Idk I guess my goal is - if I can help a handful of good people I'd consider that a blessing.
I think that would be amazing, I really would.
If I could save a few people some sleepless nights? Maybe it would be worth the try

Without going on about my life story: I've been around a lot of complicated and difficult people in my life, just saying that as nicely as I can.
"I didn't choose to become a Witcher"

I thought I was the wrong one, and that I was bad at reading people, not knowing the social dynamics, not seeing all the little invisible rules that I needed to live by to prevent a "totally not moody" person from un-lidding.
I'm not perfect, lmao not at all
But I guess all those moments drove me to study a lot, learn a lot, get neck deep in this stuff and stay there.

Amen.

You know, I've droned on endlessly here about the drunk driver who ran me over as an EMT in 2013. My subsequent injuries, including complete blindness, and my slow and ongoing recovery. I've also whinged on about the subsequent destruction of my marriage, along with the abandonment issues that came with it.

It took three years to forgive my ex wife, and the lesson I learned was this: the penance for sins of the past cannot be paid by future partners in a healthy relationship.

Am I a saint? No.

Was I above grudge fucking my ex wife in 2021 when she was lonely and I was briefly between relationships?

Well, also no...

Did I learn humility when I was completely helpless, broke, and needed help with almost everything?

Yes I did.

I tend to favor women who are a couple of years older than I am (I'm 51). Women who are established, own property, and are sick of the bullshit.

When you get to be my age, there is a raft of women who just want to be treated well by a guy who isn't abusive and knows his way around their bodies. I've been very fortunate in the fact that I've met some truly wonderful, loving women post marriage.

This weekend I will be at my girlfriend's place. I'm going to bring a bottle of coconut oil to massage her feet. They have been bothering her, and it's my job to ease her pain. Will it turn sexual? It always does, so yes it will.

But the important thing is that she will know not only that she is loved, but also that she is the most beautiful woman in the world.

Making her feel that way is also my job

solid first post.

strong move.

greetings fellow enthusiast.

Very nice.

I really think my old lady neighbor likes be seductive with me.

Today she called me over to chat, and she clearly had no bra on and didn't mind me looking. As it was super obvious her head lights were on. She also has phenomenal perky baps for a 65 year old

I was 25 and had many other options...

She was an awesome lady, but quite honestly wasn't my best option...

I was banging several women 15 years younger than her, sex is awesome but spending two hours to do something that should take 20 minutes, all the time gets tiring...