Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page / 6
Next Page Arrow Left
Link Posted: 9/9/2015 9:10:32 PM EDT
[#1]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





I disagree...  





Palpatine underestimating the Rebellion was the major issue and down fall. Also he couldn't deploy everything after the Rebels because you had entire regions and sectors to control. The Empire was vast and powerful and at the same time fighting a COIN while trying to garner more and more support from the population. On top of all that you had the build up of forces in the unknown regions battling the scouting force of the Vong. You had border issues with the Hapans and the CSA. The Chiss while friendly were also a danger to the Empire, etc...
The fact that the Empire continues to shrink in the EU but not cease to exist and still stay as a major political, economic, and military power actually speaks volumes of it. For all the shit the Empire went through, it survived. Sure, they lost a lot but they didn't cease to be like the Third Reich. On top of that, the support that they had and still had was impressive.  
The Rebels could pick their time and place to a degree. The Empire had to be everywhere.
What made the EU great was that everything had to tie into each other. One author couldn't do something without a previous author affecting his work and all of it was actually reviewed by Lucas Arts.
The whole thing with the EU started with the Novelization of the films. That was the core work and it expanded. In the novels tings could be explained that couldn't in the films.


 





EDIT TO ADD
Also having stories that didn't revolve around the force was awesome! Nice reading some stuff about Rouge Squadron and Wraith Squadron. Reading material from the Imperial view point, etc....


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Quoted:




Quoted:


The facts come from the EU before Disney killed it. The Official Publications like the Star Wars Encyclopedia are my sources.



I'm more of a wookiepedia guy, myself. I dunno, it's tough to even sort through all of the flotsam and jetsam of EU. Seems like every writer who ever worked in it set out with the intention of mary-sueing HIS sith or jedi into the mightiest who ever graced the galaxy, and HIS wicked Imperial weapon the most fearsome. It gets very arms-racey. It sucks the wind out of the movie stories to not have Palpatine have access to all of the awesome to which he supposedly had access. A lot of the EU stuff makes Palpatine and his Empire look like chumps, which I am sure is a huge part of the decision to de-canonize most of it.





I can't really say that's a bad thing, either.





 
I disagree...  





Palpatine underestimating the Rebellion was the major issue and down fall. Also he couldn't deploy everything after the Rebels because you had entire regions and sectors to control. The Empire was vast and powerful and at the same time fighting a COIN while trying to garner more and more support from the population. On top of all that you had the build up of forces in the unknown regions battling the scouting force of the Vong. You had border issues with the Hapans and the CSA. The Chiss while friendly were also a danger to the Empire, etc...
The fact that the Empire continues to shrink in the EU but not cease to exist and still stay as a major political, economic, and military power actually speaks volumes of it. For all the shit the Empire went through, it survived. Sure, they lost a lot but they didn't cease to be like the Third Reich. On top of that, the support that they had and still had was impressive.  
The Rebels could pick their time and place to a degree. The Empire had to be everywhere.
What made the EU great was that everything had to tie into each other. One author couldn't do something without a previous author affecting his work and all of it was actually reviewed by Lucas Arts.
The whole thing with the EU started with the Novelization of the films. That was the core work and it expanded. In the novels tings could be explained that couldn't in the films.


 





EDIT TO ADD
Also having stories that didn't revolve around the force was awesome! Nice reading some stuff about Rouge Squadron and Wraith Squadron. Reading material from the Imperial view point, etc....





I won't argue that there are some good points to EU, and some of the are in the video games. (I know SWTOR takes a lot of heat, but the Imperial Agent storyline was absolutely awesome.) I just feel as if a lot of the writers felt they had to one-up the previous content, and in the end, it started to get like ST, where writers invented things that invalidated previous content.





As an example, Sidious is supposed to be BADASS. He's supposed to be one of the most powerful sith ever, but compared to Vitiate, he's a piker.  He's overshadowed by MANY powerful force wielders from the past, and from a larger perspective, was only somewhat successful. His rule lasted less than 30 years, and his Empire was nothing more then a rebranded republic. EVERYTHING in the movies is lesser than the past. The Hutts are weak shadows of what they were. The Mandalorians have gone from being able to hold their own against the Republic and the Empire to being hand to mouth mercs.





(Sigh) I should shut up before I change my mind. I always said the Jedi themselves had fallen into complacency after the Sith were no longer constantly honing them, and that was how Sidious was able to creep up on them. Perhaps SW was always intended to represent a galactic civilization that had fallen into disrepair and complacency, and the heroes and villains of the past WERE in fact greater.





But it saddens me to think of it that way. It tarnishes childhood memories of wonder and awe.





I never thought of SW as a 'gritter' version of its own past.
 
Link Posted: 9/9/2015 9:29:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I remember watching a documentary about the original Star Wars, how the entire cast figured it was going to bomb. Carrie Fisher went off on a major rant about how awful the script was, how no human actually speaks the way they do in Star Wars. George Lucas can't write dialogue for shit.
View Quote


I think Joss Whedon and Tim Minear were washing each other's hair that week.

That being said, SW is clearly better than the smog-free lotus-eating socialist groupthink YMCA summer camp utopia of ST, which sucks and is bad, and Gene Roddenberry should feel shame for ever having existed.
Link Posted: 9/10/2015 2:12:14 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I think Joss Whedon and Tim Minear were washing each other's hair that week.

That being said, SW is clearly better than the smog-free lotus-eating socialist groupthink YMCA summer camp utopia of ST, which sucks and is bad, and Gene Roddenberry should feel shame for ever having existed.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I remember watching a documentary about the original Star Wars, how the entire cast figured it was going to bomb. Carrie Fisher went off on a major rant about how awful the script was, how no human actually speaks the way they do in Star Wars. George Lucas can't write dialogue for shit.


I think Joss Whedon and Tim Minear were washing each other's hair that week.

That being said, SW is clearly better than the smog-free lotus-eating socialist groupthink YMCA summer camp utopia of ST, which sucks and is bad, and Gene Roddenberry should feel shame for ever having existed.


I believe DS9 corrected all that shit. The episode in season six "in the pale moonlight" is the best episode of trek ever.
Link Posted: 9/18/2015 12:18:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


figures from some nerd page may be slanted but they say they are "legit" figures from both galaxies.

Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, the ability to travel "halfway across the galaxy" in a matter of hours as demonstrated in ANH, TPM, and AOTC requires speeds in the range of 10 million to 100 million times c).


Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6), sustainable 12 hours for a single sprint of roughly 3 light-years. This appears to have increased to roughly 3000c for newer ships such as the Intrepid-class.


link
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
its been done.

the empire for all its limited tech, the ships are millions of times faster then he federation.

that and magic the federation doesn't have a chance.

They both have FTL capability, are they that much faster?


figures from some nerd page may be slanted but they say they are "legit" figures from both galaxies.

Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, the ability to travel "halfway across the galaxy" in a matter of hours as demonstrated in ANH, TPM, and AOTC requires speeds in the range of 10 million to 100 million times c).


Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6), sustainable 12 hours for a single sprint of roughly 3 light-years. This appears to have increased to roughly 3000c for newer ships such as the Intrepid-class.


link

Haven't read all 6 pages, so maybe this has been covered, but how do they make this
jibe with the Solo boast on his ship, which did that thing in less than twelve of those other
things.
"She'll make POINT FIVE (.5) past light speed.she may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."
Link Posted: 9/18/2015 2:07:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I believe DS9 corrected all that shit. The episode in season six "in the pale moonlight" is the best episode of trek ever.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

That being said, SW is clearly better than the smog-free lotus-eating socialist groupthink YMCA summer camp utopia of ST, which sucks and is bad, and Gene Roddenberry should feel shame for ever having existed.


I believe DS9 corrected all that shit. The episode in season six "in the pale moonlight" is the best episode of trek ever.


I agree that it was the best of ST ever. But it was still ST.

ST, even at its best, is just the Alliance from Firefly writ large and in pajamas.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/18/2015 2:22:44 PM EDT
[#6]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Haven't read all 6 pages, so maybe this has been covered, but how do they make this

jibe with the Solo boast on his ship, which did that thing in less than twelve of those other

things.

"She'll make POINT FIVE (.5) past light speed.she may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

its been done.



the empire for all its limited tech, the ships are millions of times faster then he federation.



that and magic the federation doesn't have a chance.


They both have FTL capability, are they that much faster?




figures from some nerd page may be slanted but they say they are "legit" figures from both galaxies.



Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, the ability to travel "halfway across the galaxy" in a matter of hours as demonstrated in ANH, TPM, and AOTC requires speeds in the range of 10 million to 100 million times c).





Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6), sustainable 12 hours for a single sprint of roughly 3 light-years. This appears to have increased to roughly 3000c for newer ships such as the Intrepid-class.





link


Haven't read all 6 pages, so maybe this has been covered, but how do they make this

jibe with the Solo boast on his ship, which did that thing in less than twelve of those other

things.

"She'll make POINT FIVE (.5) past light speed.she may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."




 
Lucas shitty writing.





Link Posted: 9/18/2015 3:34:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
"She'll make POINT FIVE (.5) past light speed.she may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."
  Lucas shitty writing.


http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lre4kfigU41r2ak88o1_1280.jpg
View Quote


That's not a Star Wars problem. That's a "George Lucas' Writing Both Sucks and Blows" problem. No different from everybody always having a bad feeling about this or hating sand or addressing each other as "my Master."
Link Posted: 9/18/2015 3:51:21 PM EDT
[#8]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That's not a Star Wars problem. That's a "George Lucas' Writing Both Sucks and Blows" problem. No different from everybody always having a bad feeling about this or hating sand or addressing each other as "my Master."
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

"She'll make POINT FIVE (.5) past light speed.she may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."

  Lucas shitty writing.





http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lre4kfigU41r2ak88o1_1280.jpg





That's not a Star Wars problem. That's a "George Lucas' Writing Both Sucks and Blows" problem. No different from everybody always having a bad feeling about this or hating sand or addressing each other as "my Master."
Exactly my point. Lucas sucks at writing. The Empire would still beat the shit out of the UFP.

 
Link Posted: 10/18/2015 8:28:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Uh-oh...


Link Posted: 10/18/2015 1:09:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Is it time to point out that typically civilian ships and aircraft (and spacecraft when they become available) are usually much slower than military craft. That means Solos brag might be valid even though the mil could still have craft that are much faster.
Link Posted: 10/18/2015 1:32:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is it time to point out that typically civilian ships and aircraft (and spacecraft when they become available) are usually much slower than military craft. That means Solos brag might be valid even though the mil could still have craft that are much faster.
View Quote

Usually being the key word.  The Falcon was not a usual YT-1300.  
Link Posted: 10/29/2015 5:16:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I think Joss Whedon and Tim Minear were washing each other's hair that week.

That being said, SW is clearly better than the smog-free lotus-eating socialist groupthink YMCA summer camp utopia of ST, which sucks and is bad, and Gene Roddenberry should feel shame for ever having existed.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I remember watching a documentary about the original Star Wars, how the entire cast figured it was going to bomb. Carrie Fisher went off on a major rant about how awful the script was, how no human actually speaks the way they do in Star Wars. George Lucas can't write dialogue for shit.


I think Joss Whedon and Tim Minear were washing each other's hair that week.

That being said, SW is clearly better than the smog-free lotus-eating socialist groupthink YMCA summer camp utopia of ST, which sucks and is bad, and Gene Roddenberry should feel shame for ever having existed.



I'm wondering how old you are.  Let's take a look at humanity from the time when Roddenberry was alive.  He was a bomber pilot in WWII.  Later on a police officer.  Then he sees the Korean War.  Now comes the civil rights movement and all the violence and strife associated with it.  Maybe he just wonders to himself if there is not something better for humanity.  Maybe he hopes that we will eventually stop killing each other and this is his vision of the romantic ideal of what we can become.
Link Posted: 10/29/2015 5:18:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
View Quote


Tag for later.
Link Posted: 10/29/2015 5:25:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I'm wondering how old you are.  Let's take a look at humanity from the time when Roddenberry was alive.  He was a bomber pilot in WWII.  Later on a police officer.  Then he sees the Korean War.  Now comes the civil rights movement and all the violence and strife associated with it.  Maybe he just wonders to himself if there is not something better for humanity.  Maybe he hopes that we will eventually stop killing each other and this is his vision of the romantic ideal of what we can become.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I remember watching a documentary about the original Star Wars, how the entire cast figured it was going to bomb. Carrie Fisher went off on a major rant about how awful the script was, how no human actually speaks the way they do in Star Wars. George Lucas can't write dialogue for shit.


I think Joss Whedon and Tim Minear were washing each other's hair that week.

That being said, SW is clearly better than the smog-free lotus-eating socialist groupthink YMCA summer camp utopia of ST, which sucks and is bad, and Gene Roddenberry should feel shame for ever having existed.



I'm wondering how old you are.  Let's take a look at humanity from the time when Roddenberry was alive.  He was a bomber pilot in WWII.  Later on a police officer.  Then he sees the Korean War.  Now comes the civil rights movement and all the violence and strife associated with it.  Maybe he just wonders to himself if there is not something better for humanity.  Maybe he hopes that we will eventually stop killing each other and this is his vision of the romantic ideal of what we can become.

Or maybe he was just a communist?
Link Posted: 10/29/2015 5:31:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Haven't read all 6 pages, so maybe this has been covered, but how do they make this
jibe with the Solo boast on his ship, which did that thing in less than twelve of those other
things.
"She'll make POINT FIVE (.5) past light speed.she may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
its been done.

the empire for all its limited tech, the ships are millions of times faster then he federation.

that and magic the federation doesn't have a chance.

They both have FTL capability, are they that much faster?


figures from some nerd page may be slanted but they say they are "legit" figures from both galaxies.

Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, the ability to travel "halfway across the galaxy" in a matter of hours as demonstrated in ANH, TPM, and AOTC requires speeds in the range of 10 million to 100 million times c).


Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6), sustainable 12 hours for a single sprint of roughly 3 light-years. This appears to have increased to roughly 3000c for newer ships such as the Intrepid-class.


link

Haven't read all 6 pages, so maybe this has been covered, but how do they make this
jibe with the Solo boast on his ship, which did that thing in less than twelve of those other
things.
"She'll make POINT FIVE (.5) past light speed.she may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."

What exactly does "point five past lightspeed" even mean? It's without any context.

It could be some measure of efficiency. We don't even know if it's positive or negative. Perhaps it can do 0.5, on a scale where 1 is the speed of light and 0 would be some theoretical maximum speed? Maybe it's 1.5 on some sort of efficiency multiplier, making it 150% more energy efficient than baseline? We really have no idea what those five words mean.

Since one of the theories about faster than light travel is that objects going faster than c must lose energy to go faster and must gain energy to go slower (approaching an infinite amount of energy the closer you get to c), to be honest measuring from 1 (infinite energy/the speed of light) to 0 (no energy/infinite speed) would make sense. On this scale, neither 1.00 or 0.00 would be realistic measures of performance, but 0.95, 0.75, 0.66 and 0.50 would all make sense.
Link Posted: 10/29/2015 5:36:10 PM EDT
[#16]
The Star Kingdom of Manticore watches both sides go at it, with amused interest.
Link Posted: 10/29/2015 5:48:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I'm wondering how old you are.  Let's take a look at humanity from the time when Roddenberry was alive.  He was a bomber pilot in WWII.  Later on a police officer.  Then he sees the Korean War.  Now comes the civil rights movement and all the violence and strife associated with it.  Maybe he just wonders to himself if there is not something better for humanity.  Maybe he hopes that we will eventually stop killing each other and this is his vision of the romantic ideal of what we can become.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
That being said, SW is clearly better than the smog-free lotus-eating socialist groupthink YMCA summer camp utopia of ST, which sucks and is bad, and Gene Roddenberry should feel shame for ever having existed.



I'm wondering how old you are.  Let's take a look at humanity from the time when Roddenberry was alive.  He was a bomber pilot in WWII.  Later on a police officer.  Then he sees the Korean War.  Now comes the civil rights movement and all the violence and strife associated with it.  Maybe he just wonders to himself if there is not something better for humanity.  Maybe he hopes that we will eventually stop killing each other and this is his vision of the romantic ideal of what we can become.


That's nice for him. He still went all-in on a vision of the future combining all the worst features of living in an after-school special set in a hippie-dominated-Unitarian-congregation-run day care?

Funny how the dissidents are either hunted down (in ST:DS9/ST:V when they're called "Maquis") or are made to be Unpersons entirely.

Is that a romantic ideal, a future in which our children will all be a bunch of pajama boys?

Take away the warp drive and phasers, and ST:TNG was my childhood in a city that wanted to be the San Francisco of the Midwest. One of my earliest memories was the Unitarian church where my day care was (no shit, it really was) putting up a "Nuclear Weapon Free Zone" sign (in the perfect place to block the view of the cross, now that I think about it), asking someone what it meant, and getting a speech about that warmonger President Carter.

So, if Roddenberry is going to lionize the mentality of that era, then I stand by my remarks.
Link Posted: 10/29/2015 5:49:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The Star Kingdom of Manticore watches both sides go at it, with amused interest.
View Quote


And, hopefully, the Firefly-class freighters can keep running guns and cigars and bobblehead dolls under the radar past Imperial Customs Agents.
Page / 6
Next Page Arrow Left
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top