User Panel
Posted: 6/22/2019 10:10:16 PM EDT
The good idea fairy has been working overtime as of late.
Failed To Load Title Failed To Load Title It is about time that Army leadership has started taking a serious look at mobile self propelled artillery systems for equipping the lighter Stryker and Infantry Brigade Combat Teams. I suppose the near peer threats out there today has served as motivation. Towed systems might work against the Vietcong, the Taliban or ISIS. But against Russia or China, you need something that has the ability to quickly shoot and scoot. I just can't believe we weren't using truck mounted howitzer systems 30 or 40 years ago. Better late than never I guess. Now if we can get them to motorize the rest of the light infantry formations with JLTVs, HMMWVs and FMTVs (or some combination of the three), maybe we can finally be able to adequately move and maneuver all of our medium and light infantry in a responsive manner. |
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With the advances in field artillery, they really should dust off Atomic Annie and see how far they can make that bitch fly today.
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I heard the army was recently looking at 16" naval guns for some reason.
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Trucks must stay on roads. IED's are placed along roads. Tracks can go where there are no roads. Light tracks can cross bridges and are usually amphibious.
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Trucks must stay on roads. IED's are placed along roads. Tracks can go where there are no roads. Light tracks can cross bridges and are usually amphibious. View Quote Attached File M2A1 105mm on a half track, T19 Howitzer Motor Carriage. |
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A lot more people can be trained to drive a truck vs a tank with a big gun... View Quote |
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They’re for shooting at the beautiful people on Madison Avenue
Also suburbanites with back-yard chickens |
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IEDs would not be a particularly large concern in a near peer fight against an enemy that has a fuck-ton of tubes. Speed and mobility would be a much larger matter.
Even still,as I showed French wheeled artillery has been used quite well in Iraq,Syria and Africa. It’s hardly as if an M109 or Panzerhaubitze is immune to a buried pile of 122mm shells. |
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Out of curiosity, what makes a tank way more difficult to drive. Granted there will be handling differences and the greater ability to seriously fuck up equiptment and infrastucture w/ the tank. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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A lot more people can be trained to drive a truck vs a tank with a big gun... Think about people who can’t back up or reverse a trailer. The common denominator normally is they don’t understand where their wheels are, or what they need the vehicle to do. Anyone who has a decent amount of time on a zero turn mower has a huge leg up. |
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IEDs would not be a particularly large concern in a near peer fight against an enemy that has a fuck-ton of tubes. Speed and mobility would be a much larger matter. Even still,as I showed French wheeled artillery has been used quite well in Iraq,Syria and Africa. It’s hardly as if an M109 or Panzerhaubitze is immune to a buried pile of 122mm shells. View Quote |
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We had mobile mortar platforms where a Polaris Razor had a 120mm mortar in the back, they were pretty mobile
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The concept of what is going on when you input controls. Think about people who can’t back up or reverse a trailer. The common denominator normally is they don’t understand where their wheels are, or what they need the vehicle to do. Anyone who has a decent amount of time on a zero turn mower has a huge leg up. View Quote |
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The concept of what is going on when you input controls. Think about people who can’t back up or reverse a trailer. The common denominator normally is they don’t understand where their wheels are, or what they need the vehicle to do. Anyone who has a decent amount of time on a zero turn mower has a huge leg up. View Quote Ha ha, I was one of the few LT's back then that learned to drive most of the vehicles we had. 113's, Hemmits, and 5 tons. I drove the 5 ton pretty regularly. |
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The good idea fairy has been working overtime as of late. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-2oI3XsJrQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwXwwdBogBo It is about time that Army leadership has started taking a serious look at mobile self propelled artillery systems for equipping the lighter Stryker and Infantry Brigade Combat Teams. I suppose the near peer threats out there today has served as motivation. Towed systems might work against the Vietcong, the Taliban or ISIS. But against Russia or China, you need something that has the ability to quickly shoot and scoot. I just can't believe we weren't using truck mounted howitzer systems 30 or 40 years ago. Better late than never I guess. Now if we can get them to motorize the rest of the light infantry formations with JLTVs, HMMWVs and FMTVs (or some combination of the three), maybe we can finally be able to adequately move and maneuver all of our medium and light infantry in a responsive manner. View Quote |
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Quoted: Good point about the zero turn mower. Years ago, my E4 gave me lessons on our M113 and I used to operate it here and there in the field. We realized that since he was the only guy in our group that knew how to drive the track, that we would have a bad day if things got hot and he was wounded. It took me a bit, but I got it soon enough. Our's had stick controls, and it was tough driving only looking through the ports. Ha ha, I was one of the few LT's back then that learned to drive most of the vehicles we had. 113's, Hemmits, and 5 tons. I drove the 5 ton pretty regularly. View Quote I loved driving the Abrams. LOVED it. The 577 was a loud, rattly ass piece of shit, but the stick controls were pretty easy to figure out. |
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Driving tracks isnt that hard. I was just a dumbass 17 year old 13B when I learned. But as stated, maintenance is a bitch. Breaking track sucks. And M109's only have half the track as a tank so I feel sorry for M1 guys.
M109's are made of metal but they dont have shit for armor. We would have been swiss cheese in combat and IED's would have been very effective. If I remember correctly, the turret "armor" was just half inch thick plate. M109's aren't super maneuverable and I wouldn't try to climb mountains in one. Ft Carson had some trails that would make you pucker. I'd love to play with the wheeled guns in the OP and give them a go. |
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Trucks must stay on roads. IED's are placed along roads. Tracks can go where there are no roads. Light tracks can cross bridges and are usually amphibious. View Quote |
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A lot more people can be trained to drive a truck vs a tank with a big gun... View Quote ETA: You do not know what the urge to kill is, until you parallel park a tank on a rail car. Then have the load meister run out with his (loading gauge) stick and say: "NO! NO! NO! Zat is no good! Move your Panzer 22 zentimeters zo the links!!! |
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Quoted: Tracks have significantly more maintenance and fuel requirements. Logistics matters. View Quote |
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View Quote Towed guns have a lot of benefits. Like lighter weight, lower maintenance, ability to use the truck for other than towing the gun... |
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A lot more people can be trained to drive a truck vs a tank with a big gun... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Out of curiosity, what makes a tank way more difficult to drive. Granted there will be handling differences and the greater ability to seriously fuck up equiptment and infrastucture w/ the tank. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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A lot more people can be trained to drive a truck vs a tank with a big gun... |
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you're gonna have to explain this one to me. An M777A2 being towed down the road can pull over, emplace, and get rounds downrange --and on target-- faster than an M109A6 Paladin? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Marine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. |
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Tracks have significantly more maintenance and fuel requirements. Logistics matters. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Spoken like a guy that's never had to keep a 5-ton running. Logistics are not the problem. Staying alive is the problem. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Trucks must stay on roads. IED's are placed along roads. Tracks can go where there are no roads. Light tracks can cross bridges and are usually amphibious. |
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People don't think "GPS is updating" and reliance on a computer system be like it is...
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Yes. Absolutely. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Marine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. But I'm not talking just about computing the firing solution, I'm also talking about laying and safe-ing the battery. Are you talking about a one-gun situation, or an entire battery? ETA: I'm not doubting it can be done, but those cannon crewmembers gotta be moving FAST |
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Whats the plan for the Brutus when its below freezing and the deck is iced over? I like the thing but it looks like it would suck ass to service when frozen.
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Former FA officer before I went JAG. I know how quickly a good FDC can compute a firing solution, and I was trained on manual gunnery; it's shocking to me how accurate manual gunnery can be compared to the old BCS and BUCS. But I'm not talking just about computing the firing solution, I'm also talking about laying and safe-ing the battery. Are you talking about a one-gun situation, or an entire battery? ETA: I'm not doubting it can be done, but those cannon crewmembers gotta be moving FAST View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Marine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. But I'm not talking just about computing the firing solution, I'm also talking about laying and safe-ing the battery. Are you talking about a one-gun situation, or an entire battery? ETA: I'm not doubting it can be done, but those cannon crewmembers gotta be moving FAST |
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I've only seen it tested with 2 gun sections. But judging by the times I've had Paladins tell me they can't shoot at all because their computers are down leads me to think... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Marine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. But I'm not talking just about computing the firing solution, I'm also talking about laying and safe-ing the battery. Are you talking about a one-gun situation, or an entire battery? ETA: I'm not doubting it can be done, but those cannon crewmembers gotta be moving FAST |
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c'mon man, taking operational readiness into account is cheating! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Marine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. But I'm not talking just about computing the firing solution, I'm also talking about laying and safe-ing the battery. Are you talking about a one-gun situation, or an entire battery? ETA: I'm not doubting it can be done, but those cannon crewmembers gotta be moving FAST |
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With the advances in field artillery, they really should dust off Atomic Annie and see how far they can make that bitch fly today. View Quote |
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