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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:03:34 AM EDT
[#1]
Zero. Even thinking about selling a gun is a constructive firearms business.
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:04:44 AM EDT
[#2]
A lot of bad advice in this thread already.
OP, what you are asking about doing is perfectly legal. BUT, that doesn't mean it won't have a lot of scrutiny from the ATF if it catches their radar. If you are engaging in the business of selling firearms for a profit, even selling just one gun with the intent to make a profit, then you need an FFL. There is no threshold for the number of guns. It also doesn't matter if you ship to an FFL, you are required to have an FFL yourself. So the question is, how likely are they to look at your actions and then claim you are engaging in the business? Are a lot of your guns NIB? Are they recent purchases? Do you keep a spreadsheet with what you paid for them? All of those are things that average people selling guns may do, but to the ATF it is a red flag and can be used against you. Selling on consignment through an FFL listing them on Gunbroker is probably the safest way to liquidate a collection, but it also costs you some extra money. The big consignment guys on GB will usually make up for it though by bringing better prices since they have a big following on GB. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:08:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote History Well, here's a circle for you too, friend! |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:13:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of bad advice in this thread already. OP, what you are asking about doing is perfectly legal. BUT, that doesn't mean it won't have a lot of scrutiny from the ATF if it catches their radar. If you are engaging in the business of selling firearms for a profit, even selling just one gun with the intent to make a profit, then you need an FFL. There is no threshold for the number of guns. It also doesn't matter if you ship to an FFL, you are required to have an FFL yourself. So the question is, how likely are they to look at your actions and then claim you are engaging in the business? Are a lot of your guns NIB? Are they recent purchases? Do you keep a spreadsheet with what you paid for them? All of those are things that average people selling guns may do, but to the ATF it is a red flag and can be used against you. Selling on consignment through an FFL listing them on Gunbroker is probably the safest way to liquidate a collection, but it also costs you some extra money. The big consignment guys on GB will usually make up for it though by bringing better prices since they have a big following on GB. The key terms that are used consistently is “repetitively” and “regularly”. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:15:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://pluspng.com/img-png/circle-shape-png-hd-circle-png-picture-shape-png-2000.png Well, here's a circle for you too, friend! Quote HistoryQuoted: https://pluspng.com/img-png/circle-shape-png-hd-circle-png-picture-shape-png-2000.png Well, here's a circle for you too, friend! Sorry you can’t comprehend the doc. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:20:32 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry you can’t comprehend the doc. That must be a new acronym for purposely capricious rulemaking, thanks fellow member! |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:26:12 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of bad advice in this thread already. OP, what you are asking about doing is perfectly legal. BUT, that doesn't mean it won't have a lot of scrutiny from the ATF if it catches their radar. If you are engaging in the business of selling firearms for a profit, even selling just one gun with the intent to make a profit, then you need an FFL. There is no threshold for the number of guns. It also doesn't matter if you ship to an FFL, you are required to have an FFL yourself. So the question is, how likely are they to look at your actions and then claim you are engaging in the business? Are a lot of your guns NIB? Are they recent purchases? Do you keep a spreadsheet with what you paid for them? All of those are things that average people selling guns may do, but to the ATF it is a red flag and can be used against you. Selling on consignment through an FFL listing them on Gunbroker is probably the safest way to liquidate a collection, but it also costs you some extra money. The big consignment guys on GB will usually make up for it though by bringing better prices since they have a big following on GB. Selling thru an FFL holder does not protect you from being labeled a dealer. If you buy guns to purposely resell them, you are a dealer. If your not intending to buy and sell for gain, then you are not a dealer. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:28:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: YOU see no problem, I see no problem. ATF? They will see whatever they want to see, whenever and wherever they choose to see it. ATF has previously published notices that transferring a firearm through an FFL does not absolve the seller from potentially meeting their definition of being “engaged in the business”. Been that way for years. Of course they only send those notices to FFL holders so how the hell would anybody potentially violating their arbitrary rules know what they are  Common sense says that if whoever ends up with the gun has passed a BC then ATF shouldn’t have a problem with it. However “common sense” and Government action usually have very little to do with each other. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Assuming you are selling through an FFL I see no problem. YMMV YOU see no problem, I see no problem. ATF? They will see whatever they want to see, whenever and wherever they choose to see it. ATF has previously published notices that transferring a firearm through an FFL does not absolve the seller from potentially meeting their definition of being “engaged in the business”. Been that way for years. Of course they only send those notices to FFL holders so how the hell would anybody potentially violating their arbitrary rules know what they are Common sense says that if whoever ends up with the gun has passed a BC then ATF shouldn’t have a problem with it. However “common sense” and Government action usually have very little to do with each other. Uncle Sam is an abusive rotten uncle. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:28:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The key terms that are used consistently is “repetitively” and “regularly”. Quote HistoryQuoted: The key terms that are used consistently is “repetitively” and “regularly”. Posting 40 guns on GB can easily be construed as regular and repetitive. The ATF also said that a sale doesn't even have to take place in order to be an unlicensed dealer. Print up some business cards that say "John's Guns", have a spreadsheet that tracks what you paid for your guns, and set up at a gun show: you're an unlicensed dealer before you even make a sale. My point was, people liquidating guns should tread lightly and remember that the rules and laws will always be used against them in the strictest possible manner. Quoted: Selling thru an FFL holder does not protect you from being labeled a dealer. If you buy guns to purposely resell them, you are a dealer. That's exactly what my post said. I told the OP a consignment FFL was probably the safest way to liquidate a collection without raising eyebrows. Two different issues. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:34:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Posting 40 guns on GB can easily be construed as regular and repetitive. The ATF also said that a sale doesn't even have to take place in order to be an unlicensed dealer. Print up some business cards that say "John's Guns", have a spreadsheet that tracks what you paid for your guns, and set up at a gun show: you're an unlicensed dealer before you even make a sale. My point was, people liquidating guns should tread lightly and remember that the rules and laws will always be used against them in the strictest possible manner. That's exactly what my post said. I told the OP a consignment FFL was probably the safest way to liquidate a collection without raising eyebrows. Two different issues. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The key terms that are used consistently is “repetitively” and “regularly”. Posting 40 guns on GB can easily be construed as regular and repetitive. The ATF also said that a sale doesn't even have to take place in order to be an unlicensed dealer. Print up some business cards that say "John's Guns", have a spreadsheet that tracks what you paid for your guns, and set up at a gun show: you're an unlicensed dealer before you even make a sale. My point was, people liquidating guns should tread lightly and remember that the rules and laws will always be used against them in the strictest possible manner. Quoted: Selling thru an FFL holder does not protect you from being labeled a dealer. If you buy guns to purposely resell them, you are a dealer. That's exactly what my post said. I told the OP a consignment FFL was probably the safest way to liquidate a collection without raising eyebrows. Two different issues. Yet you still insist that going thru an FFL is safe. It makes no difference at all. Private sale or consignment thru FFL, if you are a dealer you are a dealer and need an FFL yourself. If not, then you're ok. As a matter of fact, going thru an FFL is the worst thing to do as it leaves a paper trail pointing straight to you that you are selling guns. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:41:34 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yet you still insist that going thru an FFL is safe. It makes no difference at all. Private sale or consignment thru FFL, if you are a dealer you are a dealer and need an FFL yourself. If not, then you're ok. As a matter of fact, going thru an FFL is the worst thing to do as it leaves a paper trail pointing straight to you that you are selling guns. You are taking my entire post out of context. I did not tell anyone that they can buy and sell guns for profit through a consignment dealer and be ok. My post says the exact opposite. I told the OP That his best option to liquidate his collection safely and easily was to take his guns to a consignment dealer. Stop being purposely obtuse. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:41:35 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of bad advice in this thread already. OP, what you are asking about doing is perfectly legal. BUT, that doesn't mean it won't have a lot of scrutiny from the ATF if it catches their radar. If you are engaging in the business of selling firearms for a profit, even selling just one gun with the intent to make a profit, then you need an FFL. There is no threshold for the number of guns. It also doesn't matter if you ship to an FFL, you are required to have an FFL yourself. So the question is, how likely are they to look at your actions and then claim you are engaging in the business? Are a lot of your guns NIB? Are they recent purchases? Do you keep a spreadsheet with what you paid for them? All of those are things that average people selling guns may do, but to the ATF it is a red flag and can be used against you. Selling on consignment through an FFL listing them on Gunbroker is probably the safest way to liquidate a collection, but it also costs you some extra money. The big consignment guys on GB will usually make up for it though by bringing better prices since they have a big following on GB. I’m not making a profit on the guns I’m selling. I just try to break even. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:57:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Im waiting for the day when someone can’t sell their “Extensive” collection because of the laws and just decides to drive a box truck down to the local “Rich and vibrant” area and just opens the doors and has a first come first serve give away. I mean if you can’t sell them what else can you do?? There is an exception for liquidating your collection. But that means ALL of them. Keep one or two and you’re a dealer |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:58:43 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's no problem selling your guns as long as you don't cross the line into being "engaged in business." The ATF doesn't care if you sell your own guns. They care if you buy guns for the purpose of reselling them. https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/finalrule2022r-17f-questionsandanswerspdf/download The ATF hates us and will use the rules to charge anyone they decide to make an example of. The stated intent of the rule is not the real reason for the rule. It rarely is. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:00:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually what you should be saying is: “My FFL is selling my guns through GB.” FFL ——> FFL. Not a purely private transaction between non-FFLs, like at a Funshow. Even better is if your FFL takes a small percentage cut. That way, if it’s ever questioned in an official context, you can claim you actually lost $$$ on the deal because your FFL charged you a commission or consignment fee for handling the transaction. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Now that private sales are banned, one is too many. That's the Gun show (Malinowski) loophole. Unless, you go thru an FFL, then the number is unlimited. That is until the BATFE changes their mind. Like I said, I’m selling through Gunbroker Actually what you should be saying is: “My FFL is selling my guns through GB.” FFL ——> FFL. Not a purely private transaction between non-FFLs, like at a Funshow. Even better is if your FFL takes a small percentage cut. That way, if it’s ever questioned in an official context, you can claim you actually lost $$$ on the deal because your FFL charged you a commission or consignment fee for handling the transaction. People have been prosecuted for dealing without a license even when using an FFL for consignment |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:00:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ATF hates us and will use the rules to charge anyone they decide to make an example of. The stated intent of the rule is not the real reason for the rule. It rarely is. Exactly my point, and it needs to be restated multiple times. What OP wants to do is perfectly legal. That doesn't mean the ATF can't turn it into a crime if they want to. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:03:18 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yet you still insist that going thru an FFL is safe. It makes no difference at all. Private sale or consignment thru FFL, if you are a dealer you are a dealer and need an FFL yourself. If not, then you're ok. As a matter of fact, going thru an FFL is the worst thing to do as it leaves a paper trail pointing straight to you that you are selling guns. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The key terms that are used consistently is “repetitively” and “regularly”. Posting 40 guns on GB can easily be construed as regular and repetitive. The ATF also said that a sale doesn't even have to take place in order to be an unlicensed dealer. Print up some business cards that say "John's Guns", have a spreadsheet that tracks what you paid for your guns, and set up at a gun show: you're an unlicensed dealer before you even make a sale. My point was, people liquidating guns should tread lightly and remember that the rules and laws will always be used against them in the strictest possible manner. Quoted: Selling thru an FFL holder does not protect you from being labeled a dealer. If you buy guns to purposely resell them, you are a dealer. That's exactly what my post said. I told the OP a consignment FFL was probably the safest way to liquidate a collection without raising eyebrows. Two different issues. Yet you still insist that going thru an FFL is safe. It makes no difference at all. Private sale or consignment thru FFL, if you are a dealer you are a dealer and need an FFL yourself. If not, then you're ok. As a matter of fact, going thru an FFL is the worst thing to do as it leaves a paper trail pointing straight to you that you are selling guns. I was at my LGS when ATF came in wanting the private party transfer records for all the Glocks transferred by that dealer. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:07:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Like a lot of federal regs there is just enough gray area that you only need to catch the attention of the Feds to be screwed. If they decide you need to be put in your place they will find a way to say you intended to do this or that
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:10:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like a lot of federal regs there is just enough gray area that you only need to catch the attention of the Feds to be screwed. If they decide you need to be put in your place they will find a way to say you intended to do this or that |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:12:35 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ATF hates us and will use the rules to charge anyone they decide to make an example of. The stated intent of the rule is not the real reason for the rule. It rarely is. But the law is still the law. If you read their recent final rule, they repeatedly restate the fact that the definition of "engaged in business" specifically exempts people who make occasional sales as a hobby or sell all or part of their personal collection. Nothing in the Final Rule changes the federal law that says unlicensed individuals are free to make occasional sales of privately owned guns without the need to be licensed. There are literally of dozens of places in the document where this is confirmed. Here's just a couple of examples (There are MANY more times this is stated). Per the final rule document: "Neither the BSCA [Bipartisan Safer Communities Act] nor this rule purports to require every private sale of a firearm to be processed through a licensed dealer. Individuals may continue to engage in intrastate private sales without a license, provided that such individuals are not “engaged in the business” "The final rule expressly recognizes that individuals who purchase firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or a legitimate hobby are permitted by the GCA [Gun Control Act] to occasionally buy and sell firearms for those purposes . . . without the need to obtain a license. It also makes clear that persons may liquidate all or part of a personal collection . . . without the need to obtain a license. Evidence of these activities may also be used to rebut the presumptions discussed above in a civil or administrative proceeding." "The BSCA definition did not alter the longstanding FOPA [Firearm Owner's Protection Act] exclusions for “a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.” "Congress specifically exempted from the definition of “engaged in the business” as a dealer in firearms “a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms,” 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(C), so a person who makes multiple sales will not always be engaged in the business." "Under this rule, persons who sell firearms but who are not engaged in the business of dealing in firearms do not need to become licensed. " "The proposed rule explicitly recognized the GCA’s “safe harbor” provision that a person is not engaged in the business if the person makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby." |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:15:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell me you have no idea how selling a gun through Gunbroker works without actually telling me you have no idea how selling a gun through Gunbroker works. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Gunbroker is not an FFL. Tell me you have no idea how selling a gun through Gunbroker works without actually telling me you have no idea how selling a gun through Gunbroker works. You tell us. Especially the details about FFL's. I'll continue to buy and sell as I want. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:25:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What OP wants to do is perfectly legal. That doesn't mean the ATF can't turn it into a crime if they want to. Ack-tua-ally, none of this relates to criminal prosecution. Violation of the new rules will not land you in jail. The rules deals only with civil and administrative procedures. If the ATF determines you are "engaged in business" without a license they could seize your guns, but they won't throw you in jail. If the ATF determines a licensed dealer is improperly selling "personal guns" off books, they can revoke his FFL. They won't throw them in jail. Per the Final Rule: "These presumptions will provide clarification and guidance to persons who are potentially subject to the license requirement and will apply in administrative and civil proceedings. The presumptions will be used, for example, to help a fact finder determine in civil asset forfeiture proceedings whether seized firearms should be forfeited to the Government and in administrative licensing proceedings to determine whether to deny or revoke a Federal firearms license. These presumptions do not apply in any criminal proceedings but may be useful to judges in such proceedings when, for example, they decide how to instruct juries regarding permissible inferences." |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:37:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Two pages and not a single person has asked OP what all he's selling?
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:54:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is an exception for liquidating your collection. But that means ALL of them. Keep one or two and you’re a dealer Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Im waiting for the day when someone can’t sell their “Extensive” collection because of the laws and just decides to drive a box truck down to the local “Rich and vibrant” area and just opens the doors and has a first come first serve give away. I mean if you can’t sell them what else can you do?? There is an exception for liquidating your collection. But that means ALL of them. Keep one or two and you’re a dealer Of all the ATF & GD BS in this thread, this one I'm gonna need a cite on. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 11:06:22 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is an exception for liquidating your collection. But that means ALL of them. Keep one or two and you’re a dealer Bullshit |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 12:46:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of all the ATF & GD BS in this thread, this one I'm gonna need a cite on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Im waiting for the day when someone can’t sell their “Extensive” collection because of the laws and just decides to drive a box truck down to the local “Rich and vibrant” area and just opens the doors and has a first come first serve give away. I mean if you can’t sell them what else can you do?? There is an exception for liquidating your collection. But that means ALL of them. Keep one or two and you’re a dealer Of all the ATF & GD BS in this thread, this one I'm gonna need a cite on. This is stated in the final rule document: "The final rule expressly recognizes that individuals who purchase firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or a legitimate hobby are permitted by the GCA [Gun Control Act] to occasionally buy and sell firearms for those purposes . . . without the need to obtain a license. It also makes clear that persons may liquidate all or part of a personal collection . . . without the need to obtain a license. Evidence of these activities may also be used to rebut the presumptions discussed above in a civil or administrative proceeding." |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 12:51:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is an exception for liquidating your collection. But that means ALL of them. Keep one or two and you’re a dealer Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Im waiting for the day when someone can’t sell their “Extensive” collection because of the laws and just decides to drive a box truck down to the local “Rich and vibrant” area and just opens the doors and has a first come first serve give away. I mean if you can’t sell them what else can you do?? There is an exception for liquidating your collection. But that means ALL of them. Keep one or two and you’re a dealer I'm not sure about that part. Where does it say you must sell all of them? |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 1:02:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure about that part. Where does it say you must sell all of them? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Im waiting for the day when someone can’t sell their “Extensive” collection because of the laws and just decides to drive a box truck down to the local “Rich and vibrant” area and just opens the doors and has a first come first serve give away. I mean if you can’t sell them what else can you do?? There is an exception for liquidating your collection. But that means ALL of them. Keep one or two and you’re a dealer I'm not sure about that part. Where does it say you must sell all of them? It doesn't. Lose your job and need to sell some guns to pay bills - not a dealer. Get diagnosed with a nasty disease and need to sell some some guns to pay bills - not a dealer. Spouse files for divorce and you need to sell some guns to pay your family law attorney - not a dealer. Moving and got too much shit to relocate easily or some of your guns aren't legal in your new state of residence so you sell them - not a dealer. Sell a gun because you don't like it or you want to upgrade - not a dealer. Advertise 10 "LNIB" Glock 9mm pistols you bought last week - ATF will want to chat with you. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 1:05:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of all the ATF & GD BS in this thread, this one I'm gonna need a cite on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Im waiting for the day when someone can’t sell their “Extensive” collection because of the laws and just decides to drive a box truck down to the local “Rich and vibrant” area and just opens the doors and has a first come first serve give away. I mean if you can’t sell them what else can you do?? There is an exception for liquidating your collection. But that means ALL of them. Keep one or two and you’re a dealer Of all the ATF & GD BS in this thread, this one I'm gonna need a cite on. Steven isn't stupid, so I'd assume this is an example of the old Rush tactic of demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 1:17:43 PM EDT
[#30]
@Johhnyrotten
What part of PA do you live in and what specifically are you trying to sell? |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 1:47:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Johhnyrotten What part of PA do you live in and what specifically are you trying to sell? Pittsburgh area |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 2:24:43 PM EDT
[#32]
the rule text makes it clear that there are scenarios where selling a bunch of guns is not dealing.
Selling guns you've held for a while before moving seems to be one. Pretty close to "liquidating a collection" which is explicitly allowed. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 2:35:57 PM EDT
[#33]
there's a QA page on the ATF's website.....nothing changed OP.
It's pretty clear who this rule was targeted at, selling personal collection items here and there is not dealing, buying a crate of XYZ item and then getting a table at your local show and selling without an FFL as a "private party," would be. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 2:41:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't. Lose your job and need to sell some guns to pay bills - not a dealer. Get diagnosed with a nasty disease and need to sell some some guns to pay bills - not a dealer. Spouse files for divorce and you need to sell some guns to pay your family law attorney - not a dealer. Moving and got too much shit to relocate easily or some of your guns aren't legal in your new state of residence so you sell them - not a dealer. Sell a gun because you don't like it or you want to upgrade - not a dealer. Advertise 10 "LNIB" Glock 9mm pistols you bought last week - ATF will want to chat with you. ridiculous. No part of what the atf says or does can be reasonable. 100% dedicated to incarcerating every possible gun owner. Preferably with extra sadism. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 2:45:30 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ridiculous. No part of what the atf says or does can be reasonable. 100% dedicated to incarcerating every possible gun owner. Preferably with extra sadism. but it isn't.....they even provide a QA page to avoid ridiculous threads like this lol |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 2:51:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: but it isn't.....they even provide a QA page to avoid ridiculous threads like this lol Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ridiculous. No part of what the atf says or does can be reasonable. 100% dedicated to incarcerating every possible gun owner. Preferably with extra sadism. but it isn't.....they even provide a QA page to avoid ridiculous threads like this lol People are stupid, including many in this thread. I posted a link to the ATF Q&A on page one. No one will read it, they would rather spread hear-say, and multiply the misinformation than read the facts for themselves. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 2:51:53 PM EDT
[#37]
Last time I moved, my car looked like a Mexican gun runner's.
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Posted: 5/18/2024 3:01:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People are stupid, including many in this thread. I posted a link to the ATF Q&A on page one. No one will read it, they would rather spread hear-say, and multiply the misinformation than read the facts for themselves. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: ridiculous. No part of what the atf says or does can be reasonable. 100% dedicated to incarcerating every possible gun owner. Preferably with extra sadism. but it isn't.....they even provide a QA page to avoid ridiculous threads like this lol People are stupid, including many in this thread. I posted a link to the ATF Q&A on page one. No one will read it, they would rather spread hear-say, and multiply the misinformation than read the facts for themselves. @2manytoys I read it several times, and as Patrick Henry said after reading the Constitution: "I smell a rat!'' |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 3:08:34 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 5/18/2024 3:18:25 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @2manytoys I read it several times, and as Patrick Henry said after reading the Constitution: "I smell a rat!'' I understand that, I have zero trust for the government and its agencies. But the fact is, this recent ruling does not change any laws. The majority of the 400+ page ruling applies to FFL holders, a bit of it applies to people who should have FFLs, and a very small part applies to regular people. You know as well as I do, that the great majority of people will not read it though, and will merely repeat and amplify fallacies. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 3:25:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I understand that, I have zero trust for the government and its agencies. But the fact is, this recent ruling does not change any laws. The majority of the 400+ page ruling applies to FFL holders, a bit of it applies to people who should have FFLs, and a very small part applies to regular people. You know as well as I do, that the great majority of people will not read it though, and will merely repeat and amplify fallacies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @2manytoys I read it several times, and as Patrick Henry said after reading the Constitution: "I smell a rat!'' I understand that, I have zero trust for the government and its agencies. But the fact is, this recent ruling does not change any laws. The majority of the 400+ page ruling applies to FFL holders, a bit of it applies to people who should have FFLs, and a very small part applies to regular people. You know as well as I do, that the great majority of people will not read it though, and will merely repeat and amplify fallacies. @2manytoys Yep, reckon you got me there |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 3:35:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same here. I made one trip from Cook County to Wisconsin with two safes full of guns, and then a second trip to move my ammo fort. Didn't want the moving crew to know about my collection. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When i moved i just rented the smallest uhaul and moved my guns and ammo myself. Had the movers do the rest. It was soo worth it. Same here. I made one trip from Cook County to Wisconsin with two safes full of guns, and then a second trip to move my ammo fort. Didn't want the moving crew to know about my collection. I’ve read a few threads here where members have had to move their own firearms and ammo because the moving company refused to move them. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 4:11:59 PM EDT
[#43]
As many as you want to.
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Posted: 5/18/2024 7:45:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't. Lose your job and need to sell some guns to pay bills - not a dealer. Get diagnosed with a nasty disease and need to sell some some guns to pay bills - not a dealer. Spouse files for divorce and you need to sell some guns to pay your family law attorney - not a dealer. Moving and got too much shit to relocate easily or some of your guns aren't legal in your new state of residence so you sell them - not a dealer. Sell a gun because you don't like it or you want to upgrade - not a dealer. Advertise 10 "LNIB" Glock 9mm pistols you bought last week - ATF will want to chat with you. This is actually a good summary. One of my gun show friends asked a BATF agent he knows how this was going to affect private sellers at the local shows. The agent used a very similar group of scenarios to explain the new regulations. What was interesting was his last example was exactly what Bubbles listed, going out and buying a bunch of NIB Glocks and putting them on a table. If you are doing that, you are getting BATF scrutiny. Selling your personal collection firearms that you have owned for an extended time, no problem. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:02:59 PM EDT
[#45]
You already are.
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