Is the confederate flag a racist symbol? - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is the confederate flag a racist symbol? (Page 3 of 5)

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:19:38 PM EDT

[#1]

No.

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:20:53 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There were slaves held under the Stars and Stripes. Does that make the US a racist flag.

Can you name me a country that has been around for more than 200 years that has not held slaves at one time? Are the flags of those countries all racist?

Is the Union Jack racist? The real racists are those who are looking for racism where it does not exist.

This is what I came here to say, and you said it better.

How many of those countries split where half the nation seceeded for the purpose of keeping the institution of slavery....and adopted their own flags?

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:21:48 PM EDT

[#3]

No.

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:25:42 PM EDT

[#4]

Just saying "Welfare" these days is considered racist, hell don't even try to use "Section 8" or "Thug".

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:29:53 PM EDT

[#5]

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:39:23 PM EDT

[#6]

I have ancestors that fought for the CSA, so I understand the "heritage, not hate" argument. I've used it as a symbol of my Southern heritage and staunchly defended the Naval Jack as such.

Then I found out that Alexander Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederacy had this to say about slavery and the CSA:

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Per: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

Draw your own conclusions.

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:40:58 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

I have ancestors that fought for the CSA, so I understand the "heritage, not hate" argument. I've used it as a symbol of my Southern heritage and staunchly defended the Naval Jack as such.

However, Alexander Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederacy had this to say about slavery and the CSA:

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Per: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

Draw your own conclusions.

That'll leave a mark...

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:41:59 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
I have ancestors that fought for the CSA, so I understand the "heritage, not hate" argument. I've used it as a symbol of my Southern heritage and staunchly defended the Naval Jack as such.

However, Alexander Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederacy had this to say about slavery and the CSA:

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Per: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

Draw your own conclusions.

Just to play devil's advocate: Do you believe EVERYTHING a Vice President says? How about the current one? If joe biden said X would that make it true?

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:42:02 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have ancestors that fought for the CSA, so I understand the "heritage, not hate" argument. I've used it as a symbol of my Southern heritage and staunchly defended the Naval Jack as such.

However, Alexander Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederacy had this to say about slavery and the CSA:

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Per: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

Draw your own conclusions.

That'll leave a mark...

I want to make it clear that I edited my original post to show that I've since changed my tune.

But yeah, I promptly sat down and shut up when I read that.

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:44:16 PM EDT

[#10]

No.

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:46:27 PM EDT

[#11]

NO!!!!

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:49:39 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

http://salaamsblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/20000119edhan-a.gif?w=614

Like these guys.

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:49:40 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have ancestors that fought for the CSA, so I understand the "heritage, not hate" argument. I've used it as a symbol of my Southern heritage and staunchly defended the Naval Jack as such.

However, Alexander Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederacy had this to say about slavery and the CSA:

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Per: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

Draw your own conclusions.

Just to play devil's advocate: Do you believe EVERYTHING a Vice President says? How about the current one? If joe biden said X would that make it true?

Considering what a moron Biden is, absolutely not. However, he is the Vice President, and as a political figurehead, his words carry a lot more power than those of the average citizen.

I absolutely believe that the majority of the Confederacy was simply fighting to preserve their way of life, but it's hard to argue that the Confederacy and slavery were not related.

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:50:41 PM EDT

[#14]

yes

Posted: 9/20/2011 12:52:20 PM EDT

[#15]

Depends on intent.

When some 88s from Canada are flying it then they are using it as a racist symbol.

When the Duke Boys put it on the roof of the General Lee they are just wallowing in their heritage.

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:01:20 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I think it depends on where you are. Here in the old confederate states people fly it to honor their home and ancestors, people in Ohio on the other hand. . .

...may fly it to try to remember what it was like when they States told Washington what to do, rather than the other way around.

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:02:19 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Treasonous rather than racist.

Just as the Star and Stripes were treasonous to the British Empire.

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:02:42 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
No

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/GAcop/IMG_0550.jpg

My great-great grandfather. A poor farmer, not a slaveowner.

May he rest in peace.

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:06:36 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Treasonous rather than racist.

Just as the Star and Stripes were treasonous to the British Empire.

Good thing we won, eh?

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:07:11 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Is the rainbow a gay symbol? Yes, gay groups use it as THEIR symbol.

Does that mean that all rainbows are gay? No.

Does the rainbow ribbon you get for graduating army boot camp mean you're gay? Ha! Trick question, the answer is YES.
Where is that copy of the marine times....

Do racist groups use the Confederate Flag as their symbol? Yes.

Bloods us the color red, and Crips use the color blue.

So what?

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:13:04 PM EDT

[#21]

Not unless the American flag is. The war for federal dominance wasn't fought over slavery, slavery was just a convenient excuse to grab power.

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:24:35 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
No, it isn't................ but that doesn't mean that some people won't use it for racist ends, or that others will agree. Particularly Yankees.

LC

By the same logic the swastika is/is not racist, it is all in how it is used and perceived by the masses.
P.S. by swastika, I mean the symbol, not the flag of the National Socialist Party.

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:26:32 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Not unless the American flag is. The war for federal dominance wasn't fought over slavery, slavery was just a convenient excuse to grab power.

Slavery was THE "states right" the Confederates were certain the Federals would abuse their power to end, thus their preemptive secession. If the Southern Aristocracy hadn't been forcing the issue, clinging to slavery, and misleading the Southern populace for decades, there would have been no reason to succeed, no bloody war, and no evil issue for the Federalists to capitalize on. The South's position was not morally defensible and blaming Lincoln for what was thrust upon him/server to him on a silver platter by the South just makes the "Lost Cause" tools look like the fools they are.

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:31:07 PM EDT

[#24]

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:34:33 PM EDT

[#25]

No, but there are a lot of abjectly stupid people who like to post in these threads. To some jackholes, I'm a treasonous and racist brown person. Because, again, some people are abjectly stupid.

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:45:58 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have ancestors that fought for the CSA, so I understand the "heritage, not hate" argument. I've used it as a symbol of my Southern heritage and staunchly defended the Naval Jack as such.

However, Alexander Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederacy had this to say about slavery and the CSA:

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Per: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

Draw your own conclusions.

Just to play devil's advocate: Do you believe EVERYTHING a Vice President says? How about the current one? If joe biden said X would that make it true?

But we all know about how the CSA truly felt about blacks and slavery. What he said was how probably what most of the citizens in the south believed at the time.

Quoted:
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/6/11/766f7473-25fa-45be-a4be-d6fcdeb96e5e.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rwTer2Efk3M/TkqECpEdwFI/AAAAAAAADKY/7Kd8qjS5hH8/s1600/2181_rebel_-Don%2527t_Tread_On_Me.jpg

Judging by your post, I see you are one of the people I previously referenced in the thread that can't let go of how the poor south so wrongly got its shit pushed in by the north. Maybe we should give land back to Mexico too.

Oh and the bottom flag is an insult to the real Gadsden flag flown by men that fought for freedom.

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:49:44 PM EDT

[#27]

Had a lengthy post all typed out here. Gone. Simple response, no it is not, and no matter how well prepared and logical your argument there will always be those that disagree. Live your life, who cares what anyone else thinks.

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:52:56 PM EDT

[#28]

Ad another one to the NO list.

Posted: 9/20/2011 1:54:28 PM EDT

[#29]

I can tell you that 4 flags fly on our property, American Flag, Confederate flag, Gadsen flag, and family crest flag. Pretty much sums up my interests and things I love.

Posted: 9/20/2011 2:00:49 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
No its not. It represents a group of people separating
themselves from another group.

When I was a kid it was a big middle finger to the carpetbagging northerners.

Didn't have a thing to do with racism. If I can find my school yearbook I'll scan some pictures. That is a big "if".

Posted: 9/20/2011 2:02:21 PM EDT

[#31]

No. The real racists are not who we are told they are.

I flew the first Confederate flag at my house on 9-11. A sign of the times and people's independence is what it is.

Posted: 9/20/2011 2:20:48 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If the flag is racist, someone should tell this guy. His name is H.K. Edgerton and he finds his way into the news occasionally.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/zack3gpics/b30d104c.jpg

I'll see your H K Edgerton and raise you one Clayton Bigsby...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/lilmama5848/MOISDEADSERIOUS/claytonbigsby-1.jpg

TRG

GTFO! Off to Google I go...

Well, about a second and a half on Google shows it's a joke.

Posted: 9/20/2011 2:38:13 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is the rainbow a gay symbol? Yes, gay groups use it as THEIR symbol.

Does that mean that all rainbows are gay? No.

Does the rainbow ribbon you get for graduating army boot camp mean you're gay? Ha! Trick question, the answer is YES.
Where is that copy of the marine times....

Do racist groups use the Confederate Flag as their symbol? Yes.

Bloods us the color red, and Crips use the color blue.

So what?

Posted: 9/20/2011 2:41:37 PM EDT

[#34]

Im my avatar a racist symbol?

Hint: Google "Orphan Brigade".

Posted: 9/20/2011 2:41:42 PM EDT

[#35]

A lot of folks display it knowing it's racial connotations. I don't care if it's flown on private property or displayed on private vehicles or clothing, but I would take great offense to seeing it on public property.

I won't go so far as to interpret the thoughts of every person flying it, but the “heritage” angle wears thin. I don't see native Texans claiming heritage flying a Mexican or Spanish flag, both which flew in this state longer than the Stars and Bars.

Most folks flying that flag are paying homage to the South, a South that waged war because it's leaders didn't like the outcome of a presidential election, were upset because they perceived a duly elected President of the United States as threatening to their institution of Slavery.

Posted: 9/20/2011 2:47:30 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/GAcop/IMG_0550.jpg

My great-great grandfather. A poor farmer, not a slaveowner.

To play devils advocate, anybody fighting for the CSA was fighting for that constitution which included slavery outright and in detail.

Same can be said of the U.S. and the U.S. Constitution.

Posted: 9/20/2011 2:48:56 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Treasonous rather than racist.

Just as the Star and Stripes were treasonous to the British Empire.

Can you imagine, say, John Quincy Adams whining about it like a little bitch if the rebellion had failed?

Posted: 9/20/2011 2:50:14 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Not unless the American flag is. The war for federal dominance wasn't fought over slavery, slavery was just a convenient excuse to grab power.

So you're saying the South didn't start the war over slavery but rather to usurp the lawful powers of the Federal government?

Posted: 9/20/2011 2:54:57 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

For some, yes it is.

http://www.jessejoyce.com/v2/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/thats-why.jpg
For others, no it isn't.

http://combatblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Civil-War-reenactment.jpg
I really don't care either way. I have more important things to worry about.

One is a naval jack..and the square one is a battle flag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

Posted: 9/20/2011 3:00:00 PM EDT

[#40]

Only for the permanently butt hurt PC.

Posted: 9/20/2011 3:03:02 PM EDT

[#41]

Not to me but maybe someone else

Posted: 9/20/2011 3:04:24 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Only for the permanently butt hurt PC.

Refusing to get over a lost war from 1865 kinda defines "butt hurt" doesn't it?

Posted: 9/20/2011 3:06:29 PM EDT

[#43]

NO, not at all.

Posted: 9/20/2011 3:07:22 PM EDT

[#44]

Nope

Posted: 9/20/2011 3:07:41 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Only for the permanently butt hurt PC.

Refusing to get over a lost war from 1865 kinda defines "butt hurt" doesn't it?

What about the TX butthurt of 1824?? ETA isn't that racist against Mexicans??

Posted: 9/20/2011 3:08:47 PM EDT

[#46]

Nope.

Posted: 9/20/2011 3:12:22 PM EDT

[#47]

The swastika has been a Buddhist symbol far longer than a Nazi one, but if I see a swastika on an armband, flag, or pickup, it's probably not driven by a Buddhist.

The Stars & Bars might not be racist [even if the states behind it explicitly endorsed slavery], but when I see it, chances are the user doesn't believe opposing interracial marriage is racist.

Posted: 9/20/2011 3:13:57 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Only for the permanently butt hurt PC.

Refusing to get over a lost war from 1865 kinda defines "butt hurt" doesn't it?

What about the TX butthurt of 1824?? ETA isn't that racist against Mexicans??

I'm not even sure what you are talking about. TX was part of Mexico. The Mexican independence from Spain in 1824 brought forth a constitutional republic. It was the arbitrary rescinding of that constitution by Santa Ana, who wrote a new "constitution," in 1835 that riled up the Texans. They at first only wanted the constitution reinstated. It wasn't until later they wanted independence.