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Posted: 9/20/2011 9:28:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Whether it's racist or not is less important than the fact that it's treasonous. Stop flying that POS! If you don't like this country then get the fuck out! You guys are just as bad as Mexicans flying their flag! Again, fuck the Confederacy, the Old South, and any idiot that still flies this flag of treason. Dipshit. |
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Posted: 9/20/2011 9:32:45 PM EDT
[#2]
in and of itself no
but it is often used by racists |
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Posted: 9/20/2011 9:41:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Like a lot of things it all depends on your perspective I guess.
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Posted: 9/20/2011 9:46:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Fuck it.
I zapped the whole post. Ain't gonna change any minds anyhow. |
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Posted: 9/20/2011 9:47:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Flags don't hold opinions on race.
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Posted: 9/20/2011 9:57:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: The Civil War was NOT about race. It was about states rights. It wasn't until after the emancipation proclamation that the war became about race and slavery. The confederate flag represented a group of states that stood up to the federal government. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. This. There is another thing, too: only a tiny percentage of Southerners in the mid-1800s owned slaves. How many multi-millionaires and billionaires do you personally know? Those were the kind of people who owned slaves, because they were the only ones who could afford them. Northerners who were that rich often owned slaves, too. Rank and file Confederate soldiers weren't fighting for slavery, because their families didn't own slaves. Slaveholders' sons were officers if they were in the Army at all. And Confederate soldiers as a whole were fighting to defend their homeland from an invading enemy that raped, pillaged and burned. I would have fought them too. And that is what the Confederate battle flag is about. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 3:17:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Civil War was NOT about race. It was about states rights. It wasn't until after the emancipation proclamation that the war became about race and slavery. The confederate flag represented a group of states that stood up to the federal government. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. This. There is another thing, too: only a tiny percentage of Southerners in the mid-1800s owned slaves. How many multi-millionaires and billionaires do you personally know? Those were the kind of people who owned slaves, because they were the only ones who could afford them. Northerners who were that rich often owned slaves, too. Rank and file Confederate soldiers weren't fighting for slavery, because their families didn't own slaves. Slaveholders' sons were officers if they were in the Army at all. And Confederate soldiers as a whole were fighting to defend their homeland from an invading enemy that raped, pillaged and burned. I would have fought them too. And that is what the Confederate battle flag is about. Rank and file soldiers did not seceed from the the Union. State governments did....and slavery was a major factor. To say that the dissolution of the country and the war had nothing to do with the institution of slavery is naive |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 3:35:54 AM EDT
[#8]
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I have relatives on my mothers side that fought for the south-I still think the south was on the wrong side of history.
Quoted:
My grandmother's grandfather, Major Robert Anderson. You assume too much.
Quoted:
Refusing to get over a lost war from 1865 kinda defines "butt hurt" doesn't it?Only for the permanently butt hurt PC. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dBZcUEUvthA/TaR8w-bn45I/AAAAAAAAAIE/1GtfbZM7niw/s1600/Anderson-Robert-002.jpg There's a lot of butt hurt on this site over that 1865 loss. HISTORY FAIL! Major Anderson was the commander at Fort Sumter. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 4:10:58 AM EDT
[#9]
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I have ancestors that fought for the CSA, so I understand the "heritage, not hate" argument. I've used it as a symbol of my Southern heritage and staunchly defended the Naval Jack as such. However, Alexander Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederacy had this to say about slavery and the CSA: Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.
Per: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech Draw your own conclusions. Just to play devil's advocate: Do you believe EVERYTHING a Vice President says? How about the current one? If joe biden said X would that make it true? But we all know about how the CSA truly felt about blacks and slavery. What he said was how probably what most of the citizens in the south believed at the time. Quoted:
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/6/11/766f7473-25fa-45be-a4be-d6fcdeb96e5e.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rwTer2Efk3M/TkqECpEdwFI/AAAAAAAADKY/7Kd8qjS5hH8/s1600/2181_rebel_-Don%2527t_Tread_On_Me.jpg Judging by your post, I see you are one of the people I previously referenced in the thread that can't let go of how the poor south so wrongly got its shit pushed in by the north. Maybe we should give land back to Mexico too.  Oh and the bottom flag is an insult to the real Gadsden flag flown by men that fought for freedom.Find me one with abe lincoln and the big fucking hole in his head and ill fly that instead. 
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Posted: 9/21/2011 4:19:48 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/6/11/766f7473-25fa-45be-a4be-d6fcdeb96e5e.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rwTer2Efk3M/TkqECpEdwFI/AAAAAAAADKY/7Kd8qjS5hH8/s1600/2181_rebel_-Don%2527t_Tread_On_Me.jpg Spoken like a proud American.....oh wait proud believer in a treasonous cause. 
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Posted: 9/21/2011 4:26:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Whether it's racist or not is less important than the fact that it's treasonous. Stop flying that POS! If you don't like this country then get the fuck out! You guys are just as bad as Mexicans flying their flag! Again, fuck the Confederacy, the Old South, and any idiot that still flies this flag of treason. What would you know about the cause of states rights when you are to ashamed to even show your own state? |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 4:28:40 AM EDT
[#12]
No, its a flag of a failed rebellion that was put down by the federal government.
What do I win?  |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 4:30:31 AM EDT
[#13]
THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN!!!
Posted from HJ-ATL airport. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 4:31:39 AM EDT
[#14]
I have all those hanging on my wall. 
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Posted: 9/21/2011 4:34:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Not as long as you don't wash the colored ones with a firehose. I was taught to never mix the colored with the whites as they could bleed and ruin the whole lot. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 4:34:38 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Ironically, people who respect the Confederate flag also tend to respect the United States flag. People who dislike one frequently dislike the other as well   |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 4:41:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
No. This ^ People who want to be offended, or want to play the victim, or want to enable victimization will see what they want to see though. That's true with so many things these pussified days, |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 4:53:25 AM EDT
[#18]
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There were slaves held under the Stars and Stripes. Does that make the US a racist flag. Can you name me a country that has been around for more than 200 years that has not held slaves at one time? Are the flags of those countries all racist? Is the Union Jack racist? The real racists are those who are looking for racism where it does not exist. This is what I came here to say, and you said it better. How many of those countries split where half the nation seceeded for the purpose of keeping the institution of slavery....and adopted their own flags? The British Empire once took over a large portion of the world and enslaved many countries and kept them that way under force of arms. Just as black a history. The zulu nation rose up an enslaved and murdered many tribes: man, woman, and child. So yes, in 200 years, pretty much no nation can claim an unsullied past. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 5:04:23 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Civil War was NOT about race. It was about states rights. It wasn't until after the emancipation proclamation that the war became about race and slavery. The confederate flag represented a group of states that stood up to the federal government. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. PLEASE go back and read the Confederate documents of the time and you will see you are wrong. You could start with the Constitution which forbade Congress from prohibiting slavery, and then look into the debate as to whether or not a "free state" could be admitted. (They voted no) Here is an excerpt from the infamous "Cornerstone Speech" by Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens in Savannah, Georgia on March 21, 1861. "Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition." It WAS about slavery from secession. Although one cannot deny slavery was a primary (perhaps the primary) issue, one cannot deny that their COnstitution did have provisions for admitting free states and permitting states to decide the issue for themselves. Thier Congress was forbidden to ban it, sure, but each individual state could. Also we must not forget that economic factors also had a large impact. The depression of the 1850's bankrupted the industrialized North, and revenue was generated for the North by tarrifs and taxation on the still prosperous agrarian South. If one is to understand history, one must look at it from the prospective of those people living at the time. At the time slavery was legal and permitted by the US Constitution. Several Union states were slave states and the Union Army used slave labor extensively throughout the war. Looking as an individual living then, not through the prism of a 21st century mind, you can better understand that the Southroners perceived their rights, property, and livelyhood threatened and the supreme law of the land, the US Constitution, in danger of violation. I'm not saying that salvery is, was, or ever will be right, but to condemn a 19th century people using 21st century values is to not understand history. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 5:07:11 AM EDT
[#20]
NO!
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Posted: 9/21/2011 5:11:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
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No. When the Civil War was fought the Stars and Bars didn't signify racism. People on both sides, including Mr. Lincoln himself, owned slaves. How many more slaves does one side have to own over the other to be considered the racist? The Emancipation Proclamation was signed well after the war was underway and was a war tactic, not a humanity effort. If the Stars and Bars signifies racisism so does the Stars and Stripes. Please please please cite your source! I am anxiously awaiting this one! Sorry to have kept you waiting. Some of Lincoln's closest friends and relatives owned slaves. Dr Todd, Mary Todd's father owned slaves as well as Mary Todd's brother in law. Lincoln himself had endentured servants (slaves) who worked for periods of time for no money to satisfy transportation debts to come to America. And when I say periods of time it didn't mean doing yard work for a summer, it meant blocks of time as in years. Lincoln's aversion to slavery was a personel opinion that did not keep him from socializing in the homes of close friends that owned slaves. However, Mr. Lincoln was as much against the concept of turning freed slaves loose in society as he was against slavery. As a result and for a period of time, under The First Civil War Confiscation Act drawn up and signed by Mr. Lincoln, Mr. Lincoln himself became one of the biggest slave holders.: "Property was confiscated from pro-slavery whites; slaves, rather than being freed, originally became the property of the U.S. government [...] To remedy this bizarre situation, General Hunter, Union military commander of Georgia, South Carolina and Florida, issued an order on May 9, 1862 freeing all slaves in areas under his command. Upon hearing of General Hunter's action one week later, President Lincoln immediately revoked the order, thus returning the slaves to their former status as property of the federal government."Thus, Lincoln - as head of the Union executive branch - played the central role in securing his own share in ownership of confiscated slaves. You make a valid point. Indentured servitude, very common in both the North and South, was a form of slavery. People would sell themselves into slavery for a period of years in exchange for passage to the US or to satisfy a debt. Those people were abused, raped, beaten, and starved just as slaves down south were and if they ran away, they were returned to fullfill their "contractual obligation." This evil system is the reason why the 13th amendment also forbid selling yourself into servitude. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 5:20:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Whether it's racist or not is less important than the fact that it's treasonous. Stop flying that POS! If you don't like this country then get the fuck out! You guys are just as bad as Mexicans flying their flag! Again, fuck the Confederacy, the Old South, and any idiot that still flies this flag of treason. We tried to leave. You Yankees wouldn't let us. Now you can enjoy our fine flag. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 5:35:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
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Whether it's racist or not is less important than the fact that it's treasonous. Stop flying that POS! If you don't like this country then get the fuck out! You guys are just as bad as Mexicans flying their flag! Again, fuck the Confederacy, the Old South, and any idiot that still flies this flag of treason. What would you know about the cause of states rights when you are to ashamed to even show your own state? Damn.....I guess with logic like that I must be wrong! I'm from Texas, which was a part of the Confederacy. I guess this gives me the right to waive that piece of shit all over the place. The thing is though, I am not a traitor. I love my country. Again, if you don't like the this country then get the fuck out! Stop acting like all those other people who come into this country and hang their flags everywhere. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 5:39:36 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
Whether it's racist or not is less important than the fact that it's treasonous. Stop flying that POS! If you don't like this country then get the fuck out! You guys are just as bad as Mexicans flying their flag! Again, fuck the Confederacy, the Old South, and any idiot that still flies this flag of treason. We tried to leave. You Yankees wouldn't let us. Now you can enjoy our fine flag. I'm from Texas, born and raised. Your flag still sucks ass. It's sad too that a bunch of weak, stupid, sissy Yankees "wouldn't let us leave". I guess that means you and your flag lost. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 5:43:45 AM EDT
[#25]
My God! You sir are brilliant! After having read the copious evidence you provided coupled with your intricately woven theoretical construct, I must concede that I was wrong.
 This is for "Ohio", but rather than quote him I will just leave it here for anyone who can't come up with an argument.
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Posted: 9/21/2011 5:44:45 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Whether it's racist or not is less important than the fact that it's treasonous. Stop flying that POS! If you don't like this country then get the fuck out! You guys are just as bad as Mexicans flying their flag! Again, fuck the Confederacy, the Old South, and any idiot that still flies this flag of treason. What would you know about the cause of states rights when you are to ashamed to even show your own state? Damn.....I guess with logic like that I must be wrong! I'm from Texas, which was a part of the Confederacy. I guess this gives me the right to waive that piece of shit all over the place. The thing is though, I am not a traitor. I love my country. Again, if you don't like the this country then get the fuck out! Stop acting like all those other people who come into the country and hang their flags everywhere. Damn, proof reading is my friend.  Talk about bad typing on my part. See, just looking at that stupid flag has lowered my IQ!
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Posted: 9/21/2011 5:47:06 AM EDT
[#27]
No it is not inherently racist. It is part of our national heritage.
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Posted: 9/21/2011 6:21:09 AM EDT
[#28]
In the future we'll be having the same conversation about the stars and stripes. Many latinos feel the same way about Old Glory.
It will be hilarious when the yankees find their flag treated the same as the stars and bars. 
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Posted: 9/21/2011 6:26:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Whether it's racist or not is less important than the fact that it's treasonous. Stop flying that POS! If you don't like this country then get the fuck out! You guys are just as bad as Mexicans flying their flag! Again, fuck the Confederacy, the Old South, and any idiot that still flies this flag of treason. We tried to leave. You Yankees wouldn't let us. Now you can enjoy our fine flag. I'm from Texas, born and raised. Your flag still sucks ass. It's sad too that a bunch of weak, stupid, sissy Yankees "wouldn't let us leave". I guess that means you and your flag lost. Folks, here we have a rare case in which the Californian is the dignified voice of intellect and a supposed Texan is the obvious trash. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 6:36:34 AM EDT
[#30]
The assholes in this picture are the only reason this debate exists. They can choke on a bag of dicks for perverting our history. Regardless of which side of the fence you are on, as an Americans this is part of our history/heritage. There is much that can be learned from this point in time, I agree that it should NOT be shoved under a rug. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 6:39:35 AM EDT
[#31]
Only if you are an idiot.
If you understand history, then NO. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 7:01:17 AM EDT
[#32]
As a historical piece, the Battle Flag is not a racist device.
As used by certain groups of people, the Rebel Flag is a racist device. Prior to moving south of the Mason/Dixon line, the only time I ever saw a Rebel Flag was presented on trucks and clothing sported by certain individuals who can be connected to racist activities. After my move to Texas, I no longer saw a Rebel Flag, I saw the Battle Flag. The Battle Flag as displayed as a heraldic device is not racist. There is a big difference and you would have to see both to recognize the difference. Personally, because of the negative stigma associated to the Battle Flag I would not display it, I would however display the Bonnie Blue Flag to state my support for States Rights. I see people sporting the Battle Flag today as someone who would say "fuck you Yankees, the South will rise again!" more than "hey, I support states rights over big bloated government" The same way as I do not display the Gadsden Flag, I display the Washington Cruisers (An Appeal to Heaven) flag. I prefer the subtle message versus the "HEY YOU" message. but hey, to each his own. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 7:16:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Civil War was NOT about race. It was about states rights. It wasn't until after the emancipation proclamation that the war became about race and slavery. The confederate flag represented a group of states that stood up to the federal government. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. This. There is another thing, too: only a tiny percentage of Southerners in the mid-1800s owned slaves. How many multi-millionaires and billionaires do you personally know? Those were the kind of people who owned slaves, because they were the only ones who could afford them. Northerners who were that rich often owned slaves, too. Rank and file Confederate soldiers weren't fighting for slavery, because their families didn't own slaves. Slaveholders' sons were officers if they were in the Army at all. And Confederate soldiers as a whole were fighting to defend their homeland from an invading enemy that raped, pillaged and burned. I would have fought them too. And that is what the Confederate battle flag is about. The problem with that argument is the articles of secession passed by the states. Read them. They make it plain to all but the most myopic observer that the southern states seceeded primarily (and in some cases, solely) to preserve their right to maintain the institution of slavery. Now, I understand...an end to slavery would virtually bankrupt the southern states, who were totally unprepared to swich to a more industrial economy. But understanding why they seceeded, and even sympathising with the economic pressures they would've been under if they hadn't, doesn't change the fact that the southern states seceeded and formed a confederation (in direct violation of the Constitution they willingly ratified) in order to preserve the institution of slavery. I honor what my confederate forebears sacrificed and suffered, but I still see the flag as the symbol of an insurrection to preserve slavery. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 3:20:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Whether it's racist or not is less important than the fact that it's treasonous. Stop flying that POS! If you don't like this country then get the fuck out! You guys are just as bad as Mexicans flying their flag! Again, fuck the Confederacy, the Old South, and any idiot that still flies this flag of treason. We tried to leave. You Yankees wouldn't let us. Now you can enjoy our fine flag. I'm from Texas, born and raised. Your flag still sucks ass. It's sad too that a bunch of weak, stupid, sissy Yankees "wouldn't let us leave". I guess that means you and your flag lost. You may live there, but I really doubt you are from there. Nice try Valley girl. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 6:16:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Another reason that we shouldn't let anyone from the PRK in.
Quoted:
You may live there, but I really doubt you are from there.
Quoted:
I'm from Texas, born and raised. Your flag still sucks ass. It's sad too that a bunch of weak, stupid, sissy Yankees "wouldn't let us leave". I guess that means you and your flag lost.Quoted:
We tried to leave. You Yankees wouldn't let us. Now you can enjoy our fine flag. Whether it's racist or not is less important than the fact that it's treasonous. Stop flying that POS! If you don't like this country then get the fuck out! You guys are just as bad as Mexicans flying their flag! Again, fuck the Confederacy, the Old South, and any idiot that still flies this flag of treason. Nice try Valley girl. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 7:14:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Whether it's racist or not is less important than the fact that it's treasonous. Stop flying that POS! If you don't like this country then get the fuck out! You guys are just as bad as Mexicans flying their flag! Again, fuck the Confederacy, the Old South, and any idiot that still flies this flag of treason. Dipshit. Agreed. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 7:16:05 PM EDT
[#37]
To me... it represents the south's values which in my opinion are better than the north's currents values. And this is coming from a yank
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Posted: 9/21/2011 7:18:22 PM EDT
[#38]
 Is the American flag racist? |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 7:18:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Whether it's racist or not is less important than the fact that it's treasonous. Stop flying that POS! If you don't like this country then get the fuck out! You guys are just as bad as Mexicans flying their flag! Again, fuck the Confederacy, the Old South, and any idiot that still flies this flag of treason. What would you know about the cause of states rights when you are to ashamed to even show your own state? Damn.....I guess with logic like that I must be wrong! I'm from Texas, which was a part of the Confederacy. I guess this gives me the right to waive that piece of shit all over the place. The thing is though, I am not a traitor. I love my country. Again, if you don't like the this country then get the fuck out! Stop acting like all those other people who come into the country and hang their flags everywhere. Damn, proof reading is my friend. Talk about bad typing on my part. See, just looking at that stupid flag has lowered my IQ!Lighten up, Francis. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 7:51:51 PM EDT
[#40]
This is why we can't have nice things.
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