Quoted:
I think that most people have a poor understanding of lasers and their capabilities. I'm sure that is because of movies and advertising. I really like them because they can do stuff that nothing else can but it's an extremely narrow window. They make accurate fire from any shooting position possible. It's pretty cool to be able to bust a clay bird at 25 yards with a pocket pistol from the waist. They also only really work when it's dark out which is something they don't highlight in advertising. I used to take customers out in the sun and show them how the dot would all but disappear on most clothing. The green was a little better but places like here where it's bright most of the time you aren't getting any help until the sun goes down. I do believe there's a small deterent with a visible laser similar to the Tasers but not enough to matter and certainly not anything you would want to depend on.

The only gun I have them on is an LCP which I hardly ever carry. They are pretty hard to justify cost wise.



I can't remember where I saw it but there was a guy addressing the light issues and he said something to the effect of that's certainly a valid concern in certain situations but they probably didn't apply to what most people will encounter. "If you have a group of Navy Seals hunting you down it's certainly valid but it is probably the least of your concerns at that point" Or something like that

Quoted:


A lot of what he says about comparisons with USPSA Classifiers is dated and/or flawed.

Quoted:
I can't hate too much because I haven't tried them.

My only experience is watching people use them on the local indoor range. They fire real slow because that laser is wandering all over their target. Eventually they shoot, seconds later. You know they hit the sweet spot when you hear the boom. Look at their target and the holes are all over. If only they used irons or a dot (heaven forbid) they could have shot the bad guy much faster.

Quoted:
Have one on a LCP. Wont hold zero.

Quoted:
I’ve no issue with them.
Some of my pistols have one. Some don’t.
Nothing makes a potential evil doer release their bowels faster without letting loose a single shot than painting a green bead on their chest.
They’re also nice for painting which target is the threat to others who may be assisting you.

Quoted:
I find that a laser slows me down, and I'm no more accurate.  

Quoted:
I think red dots are better because they give you the same “view” as a laser but since it’s only a couple feet from your face it doesn’t turn a tiny bit of shaking into a metric shitload of wobble at 10-25 yards.

Quoted:
I can't hate too much because I haven't tried them.

My only experience is watching people use them on the local indoor range. They fire real slow because that laser is wandering all over their target. Eventually they shoot, seconds later. You know they hit the sweet spot when you hear the boom. Look at their target and the holes are all over. If only they used irons or a dot (heaven forbid) they could have shot the bad guy much faster.

Quoted:
Lasers, outside night vision applications, are stupid.

Quoted:
One too many accidental cat shootings.

Quoted:
When I got into CCWing a pistol for protection in the mid 2000s seems like crimson trace laser grips and laser max guide rods were all the rage. Or so it seemed to me.


Fast forward to 2024 I very rarely see them on carry guns now.


Why have they fallen out of favor? With in close range they make sense. I run a TLR6 in my G42.

Thoughts?

Quoted:
Lasers work two ways.  Not a great idea unless it is NVG style.

Quoted:

Too many my dude, and I did.

Just the one where he didn't bail but he also backed up.

My presence prevented worse things, although the homeless did try to break into my apartment, attempted to rape three neighbors, prepped an apartment for burglary near me (they didn't know I was there but I dropped a motion activated light in their approach path. It was gone in the morning but they didn't burgle the apartment either), tried to break into a common area in front of me (he saw the gun and tried to bullshit his way out of it but the cops took him away for being drunk, homeless, and on parole anyway, didn't say a word to me), etc.

Quoted:  optics.  like a laser the BG cant see.

Quoted:
Lasers. LOL.

I wrote the first policy on lasers on pistols for my department circa-1996-ish. Not a fan or lasers at that time, "The Chief" had one, his buddy and that guy's buddy did and they wanted to see them authorized. Doesn't mean I gotta be a fan too. LOL. Gave me his personal one to test, a CRDC. About double the size of a TLR-1. Ish. Specifically told me he will get it back in working order, as he'd already seen how rough I was on "testing". Not all the "sales/testing" samples I was provided over the years survived my testing, which was nothing more than the use I'd subject ANY carry weapon to) Good stuff survived this. Cheep shit...didn't. LOL.

Wrote him a two page memo why they were a good idea...and bad. Pulled no punches. He chuckled when I didn't balk at him authorizing them over my clear position not to. See, I get paid to make you look good, Chief. Your cooperation helps. But what I DO, is provide you with the most ACCURATE information I can so YOU can make an informed decision. My personal position doesn't enter into it. I'm not the fucking Sun King, right? LOL. So you make your decision, my job is then to carry it out. Schedule classes, write policy which you yourself will approve and the people who want to will carry them. Simple.
Anyway

Those CRDC lasers performed about as well as I predicted; inside of five or so years, none of them worked anymore. They never asked for me to approve any other models so it was a moot point, though the SWAT Bubba's found a use for them in certain situations such as working from behind ballistic shields. (they did not use CRDC) This department has, wonders of wonders, stood the tests of time in keeping up with the joneses. Embraced RDS on pistols, LVPO optics for Patrol in addition to the standard whatknot they carry for rifles in 5.56/223 or 308 caliber.

I did have a student in one of the classes I put on for IALEFI back when, his department issued them for their duty pistols, Glock 17. Their Chief bought a bunch, handed'em out at roll call. No practice, nuttin'. This guy had carried it like this months? Found out during my class (first time he'd shot more than a mag's worth) his pistol was a jammamatic. Asked if I had a spare recoil assembly, which I did in my rolling armorer's kit (A Chevy one ton long van at the time) He proceeded to field strip his pistol, remove laser, install factory recoil spring assembly, fired three mags worth no stoppages. Then, he stomps that lasermax or whatever to death. LOL

Had other students use them with varying degrees of success. Only one I have is a set of grips on a Ruger with a laser. It's not a normal EDC but I play with it. Works, but I like irons better.
I have one pistol with a RDS.
But I like irons better.
So Solly.
LOL

Quoted:
Concepts on application of vision and sight usage have also changed over the course of 8 years, and rather significantly.

I would reference the training material from the PSTG instructors primarily (stoeger, kim, park).

Quoted:
I'm not.  I'm saying application of dot equipped pistols has changed significantly as they've gotten more popular, for the better.

At the most recent IPSC Nationals, the winner of Production Optics was 12% ahead of the Production winner. I would say a 12% improvement in performance over similar skilled shooters with just the change of a dot is significant, given the ruleset (PO and P have essentially the same rules outside the optic).

I have no interest at all in the application of lasers on firearms, outside shooting at coyotes with night vision and IR lasers.

Quoted:
However, when doing target practice at night, the laser is fun and fast. It can also help to diagnose issues with new shooters / show them flinching.

Quoted:

False. You can't use a red dot from retention.

Quoted:

I'm just a boring dude.

Quoted:

Not in gun games, that's for sure.