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Posted: 8/9/2017 3:57:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a prudent move for China to depose Kim and restart DPRK as a client state without Kim's baggage. DPRK has value more value to the Chinese without Kim than with at this point. The West would celebrate such a move as an indication of world wide unity against crazy people/hopeandaheyandashanana. China will simply see it as a necessary adjustment in their hegemony. Deposing Kim and instituting some market reform in DPRK (like the ability to outsource their labor to the ROKs) will inject cash into DPRK and thus, weapons sales for China. Im surprised they havent done it already. Probably waiting for the western MSM to raise things to a fever pitch so they can swoop in with unanimous world applause. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:00:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am suspicious that China sees a war with the United States is inevitable. If not over North Korea, then over the South China Sea and if not over the South China Sea then over Taiwan. Xi and the commies may be coming to the conclusion that they are going to have to fight us sooner or later, and they may be chasing North Korea as the venue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Pre-positioning all of those assets under the guise of an exercise is their way of saying that if we attempt to do something preemptive about NK...they will respond. We hold all the purse strings in China. They go to bat with us now and they collapse from within even if it stays conventional. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:01:33 PM EDT
[#3]
wars have been started over less
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:03:03 PM EDT
[#4]
China is actually in a position to make themselves look really good in the eyes of the World. Get rid of this motherfucker, doesn't matter how, and install someone "reasonable." Go in a provide aid and improve infrastructure, at the same time new NK leader amd China request a formal end of the war. China would look good amd still get their buffer.
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:03:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don't want 25 million starving, brainwashed people with virtually zero skill set flooding across the border. Then it becomes their problem |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:06:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And they could just as easily see a war in North Korea as a way to hurt the United States and take us down a peg. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's probably a fantasy. Our relationship with Russia is probably worse than it has been at any time since the end of the Cold War, and our relationship with China isn't all that great either. Russia views us as a threat right now, and China views us as an antagonist, if not an enemy. Teaming up with them is probably impossible at the moment. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:07:58 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm guessing if it looked like China or Russia were going to attack Mexico our southern boarder would get pretty active too.
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:20:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Imagine if Trump got us all on the same side for this!
Fire and fury like the world has never seen is God damned right!!!! Somebody sound the MAAAAAGGGAAAAAAAAAA HORN! |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:22:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But then why vote FOR the UN sanctions against the NORK's? Both China and Russia did so. China has a LOT to lose in a conflict with the US, while they may be thinking about one, they aren't ready for one right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's probably a fantasy. Our relationship with Russia is probably worse than it has been at any time since the end of the Cold War, and our relationship with China isn't all that great either. Russia views us as a threat right now, and China views us as an antagonist, if not an enemy. Teaming up with them is probably impossible at the moment. I don't think that Russia or China WANTS North Korea to have nuclear weapons. So, in principle they may not have any issue with voting for the sanctions. But, they may also see a nuclear armed North Korea as an inevitability. They may see a war on the Korean Peninsula as an inevitability. They may be assessing ways to make this come out in their favor, and giving the US a kick in the nuts might not be such a bad outcome for them. If we get another bloody nose in Asia, then it may make us reluctant to go back. I could be totally wrong too. Or this could all be a bunch of bluster on both sides. I honestly don't know. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:23:57 PM EDT
[#10]
If China & Russia keep that shit up there WILL BE serious sanctions.
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:45:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've read a lot about WW 1. One thing I've learned from studying the conflict is, once militaries get built up and ready, it's hard to stop the momentum. This could change direction real quick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've read a lot about WW 1. One thing I've learned from studying the conflict is, once militaries get built up and ready, it's hard to stop the momentum. This could change direction real quick. Quoted:
Or, if the groundwork has been laid, it's telling Fat Boy he's going to get hit from all sides and has no friends of note anymore. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 5:21:00 PM EDT
[#12]
You guys worry way to much, the US and our allies will over run NK so fuckin fast, do you really think we don't have all our targets picked out already, the first to go are the ones closest to the S Korean border, the missile launchers, tanks, and artillery troops will be bombed to hell and back so fast they wont know what hit em.
Same with second and third lines close to S Korea. the N Korean troops will run faster north than south to save there asses, tanks will be abandoned and blown to shit one by one, planes will be shot outta the sky and grounded just like in Iraq and then pounded to shit, radar's knocked out first night, fat fuck's whole area will be a target for cruise missiles before the first report comes that anything is going on, if fat fuck launches a sunshine bomb at anyone, the US will have it wrapped up sooner yet, and the the russkies and china better back the fuck up from the borders. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 5:48:19 PM EDT
[#13]
China isn't going to sit on their hands while we kick off a war in one of their neighbors/client states. It would be no different with us if China were to invade Mexico. Jet fighters, attack helicopters and tanks are not being moved there to stem refugees.
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Posted: 8/9/2017 5:57:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
China isn't going to sit on their hands while we kick off a war in one of their neighbors/client states. It would be no different with us if China were to invade Mexico. Jet fighters, attack helicopters and tanks are not being moved there to stem refugees. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 5:58:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
China isn't going to sit on their hands while we kick off a war in one of their neighbors/client states. It would be no different with us if China were to invade Mexico. Jet fighters, attack helicopters and tanks are not being moved there to stem refugees. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:00:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They already got that whiff when the UK returned Hong Kong to them. For commies, the Chinese are pretty damned capitalist.... and expansionist/colonialist - they're all over Africa mining rare earth elements. They run the Panama canal, and heavily invested in in the US. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:04:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm betting there'd be back-channel agreements, or there are offers made in advance already, in case the balloon goes up without warning, that once NK was neutralized and the shooting stopped, American forces would retreat back to the DMZ, only ROK forces would remain, and/or China would be invited in to help occupy them. And possibly NK might be turned over to China as a puppet state like Mongolia etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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China isn't going to sit on their hands while we kick off a war in one of their neighbors/client states. It would be no different with us if China were to invade Mexico. Jet fighters, attack helicopters and tanks are not being moved there to stem refugees. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:06:04 PM EDT
[#18]
I'm just here to see how many times people say "boarders".
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:07:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Kim Jong-un is like the mouthy fat little kid on your street whose brothers are Vitali Klitschko and Jackie Chan. You have the might to pound him into oblivion. Unfortunately, you will only get a Pyrrhic victory because in return you and your friends will get pounded into oblivion by his brothers. There is nothing you can do about that kid. And there is nothing the USA can do about North Korea.
It is extremely naive to think that Russia and China are going to solve our problem for us. To them, Kim Jong-un is not a problem but a hero. They see him as their deterrent to American aggression and expansionism in the region. Trump has been checkmated. His only option is to risk starting WWIII and he won't do that. We might win WWIII but again, it will be a Pyrrhic victory. So the status quo will continue like it has since 1953. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:08:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Chinese may have evolved, they started out as just another commie disaster but I think they were smart enough to see that it wasn't working so when the Western Markets began opening to them under Nixon I think they may have changed tack. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:14:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Amid heightened tensions in the region, Beijing staged 'large-scale' military exercises with dozens of ships, fighter jets and submarines adjacent to the Korean Peninsula on Monday - just months after moving 150,000 troops to its border with North Korea. Russia, meanwhile, moved military equipment including helicopters and combat vehicles to its southern frontier with the hermit state earlier this year. Moscow has displayed its own frightening military strength at a war games event in Siberia this week and during a vast Navy Day parade in Vladivostok - about 100 miles from North Korean territory. So here is the question that I have: Is this just a prudent move by China and Russia to ensure that any war on the Korean Peninsula doesn't spill over into their borders, or is everyone gearing up for WWIII? |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:15:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<SNIP> If things happen, I'd bet that China will go into NK. What do you think they'll be doing in NK? |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:16:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it were happening on our border - what do you think we would do? |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:18:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it's prudent. Russia, China and the US have good gigs going, so starting WWIII over North Korea doesn't seem to be in the cards, IMO. Having 25M starving NORKS flooding over their borders would be a major problem, however. Chris having to kill 25 million people in order to prevent them from killing 25 million more pity the country that the court of world opinion hangs around their neck naturally the dems and GOPe,RiNOs,& NeoCons would love to have it hung around President Trump's Hopefully the Çhi-coms are setting up a provisional government to take over after Kim's timely demise...? |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:19:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, no doubt the fighters and submarines are just the thing to stem the flow of refugees. 
Depends on how they choose to deal with said refugees...
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:23:10 PM EDT
[#26]
What is sad is that Trump wanted to build a relationship with the Russians so they could assist us with problems like North Korea. But the short sighted MSM, politicians, American people, etc. would have nothing to do with that by claiming Trump was a Russian lover. They effectively alienated the Russians and took away Russian leverage that Trump might of used to change the game. They killed the relationship before it even had a chance to grow. Now Russia is back to being an obstructionist and an adversary.
We got what we asked for. Say hello to their little friend; Kim Jong-un. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:24:05 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, we tend to focus on various countries intentions. Whether or not we think they're "mean" or expansionist, or aggressive etc. Our military, the war college etc. does this, but culturally and politically we don't look as hard at these other countries capabilities, it's a secondary consideration only after we think they're an enemy or not. China and Russia are much better at asessing potential enemies based solely on their capability, regardless of the country's stance, politics or intentions, and in those terms, America scares the ever-loving bejeezus out of everyone. 
Where are the tributes of wine, women, and gold to keep us pacified? China is making a huge fucking strategic mistake letting kim run loose. They are going to have their influence in the area set back 100 generations. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:24:22 PM EDT
[#28]
There's not been a major conflict in a long time.
in some ways the current scenario reminds me of just before WWI. you have a bunch of belligerent yakking going on with NK. and NK like germany before wwi has a sort of inferiority complex led by a daffy fearless leader, like the kaiser. say his generals have a invasion plan for sk like germany did for the invasion of france. once they execute the plan all major world powers will be pulled into the vortex.. On June 28, 1914, a young Serbian nationalist named Gavrilo Princip killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand, heir to the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, in Sarajevo, Bosnia. Taking place against a backdrop of escalating tensions in the Balkans, the assassination set off a chain of events that would lead to the start of World War I barely one month later. To many people, the Great War—as it was known at the time—seemed to come out of the blue, as the European continent was enjoying a long stretch of unparalleled peace and prosperity. In fact, the seeds of the devastating conflict had been planted long before Princip fired those fatal bullets. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:24:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That sounds pretty ominous. Do you think they'd go in to oppose our forces or the north koreans? I'm pretty sure the US wouldn't have ground troops there. What do you think they'll be doing in NK? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<SNIP> If things happen, I'd bet that China will go into NK. What do you think they'll be doing in NK? |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:30:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's not been a major conflict in a long time. in some ways the current scenario reminds me of just before WWI. you have a bunch of belligerent yakking going on with NK. and NK like germany before wwi has a sort of inferiority complex led by a daffy fearless leader, like the kaiser. say his generals have a invasion plan for sk like germany did for the invasion of france. once they execute the plan all major world powers will be pulled into the vortex.. On June 28, 1914, a young Serbian nationalist named Gavrilo Princip killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand, heir to the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, in Sarajevo, Bosnia. Taking place against a backdrop of escalating tensions in the Balkans, the assassination set off a chain of events that would lead to the start of World War I barely one month later. To many people, the Great War—as it was known at the time—seemed to come out of the blue, as the European continent was enjoying a long stretch of unparalleled peace and prosperity. In fact, the seeds of the devastating conflict had been planted long before Princip fired those fatal bullets. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:36:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Taking possession of nuke facilities. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:40:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am suspicious that China sees a war with the United States is inevitable. If not over North Korea, then over the South China Sea and if not over the South China Sea then over Taiwan. Xi and the commies may be coming to the conclusion that they are going to have to fight us sooner or later, and they may be chasing North Korea as the venue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Pre-positioning all of those assets under the guise of an exercise is their way of saying that if we attempt to do something preemptive about NK...they will respond. We hold all the purse strings in China. They go to bat with us now and they collapse from within even if it stays conventional. they give no fucks 
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:47:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its a move to ensure there will be a buffer state between them and us. plus there will be tons of refugee's if shit hits the fan. For those who think that China can remove Kim, remember that China is within range of any nukes the NORKS have. The only reason Kim wants nukes is to avoid regime change (initiated by the USA or China). |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:51:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Taking possession of nuke facilities. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<SNIP> If things happen, I'd bet that China will go into NK. What do you think they'll be doing in NK? |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:52:55 PM EDT
[#35]
I don't think Trumps vague biblical threats of fire and ice are having much effect. Trump needs to make the threat more personal to Kimchi. Like saying, "I told you a long time ago, you fucking little monkey, not to fuck me" right before he drops a Daisy Cutter on his house.
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:56:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is sad is that Trump wanted to build a relationship with the Russians so they could assist us with problems like North Korea. But the short sighted MSM, politicians, American people, etc. would have nothing to do with that by claiming Trump was a Russian lover. They effectively alienated the Russians and took away Russian leverage that Trump might of used to change the game. They killed the relationship before it even had a chance to grow. Now Russia is back to being an obstructionist and an adversary. We got what we asked for. Say hello to their little friend; Kim Jong-un. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:59:59 PM EDT
[#37]
I agree that little bastard needs to be gone. But do not under estimate China and Russia.
What I do not get with China is that they are more dependant on the U.S. market wise that that like pos Kim which is nothing but a drain on the world and in reality a threat to the entire world. China should recognize this and not defend them and join America to take him out. Heck give NK to China and let them run it. But Russia and China together could be a problem. They would not hesitate to fire upon America homeland I believe and once that happens all gloves and options are on the table. All this over some idiot that is absolutely crazy that no one likes or trusts. The damn Democrats to need to back off of Russia and stop accusing them of bullshit. They've done nothing that America has not done and Russia had absolutely no effect on elections. The Democrats are wanting a reason or something to blame for losing and Russia is it. America is sick and tired of hearing the Democratic party whine about Russia because it's nothing but bullshit. I have no problem attacking NK but I do not want to fight russia and China it will not be a fast or easy fight and it one sude decides to use nukes. That's it no side wins. There is no winner when nukes start flying each direction. Those of you that's never been in combat. It's not like a video game or tv. Those of you beating you chest saying nuke them have no damn idea what your asking for to happen. We are not the only ones with nukes and we can be hit just as easily. It would not surprise me if there are old Russian suit case nukes here already from the cold war. If it were just North Korea I'd not be concerned but China and Russia have me concerned if they decide to defend North Korea. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:00:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Russia and China doing border security America Won't.
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:10:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
America is sick and tired of hearing the Democratic party whine about Russia because it's nothing but bullshit. russia was just the excuse to go on a fishing expedition. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:11:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, we do have a war going on at our southern border. We haven't done dick in 25 years. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it were happening on our border - what do you think we would do? |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:12:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The US was having problems running a few fronts in the middle east. A major conflict will stretch the military very very thin. This won't be no Wolverine bullshit in this fantasy land. China a Russia are very tight with each other. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:14:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the establishment wants trump gone, thats the dems and the republicans. the russia thing is the opening that allowed mueller to get started. and once started he will never stop. its very similar to the clinton investigation and impeachment. everyone knew that there were things going on with the clintons. whitewater was the smoke. they ever could find the fire so they kept asking questions knowing that sooner or later billybob would trip up and he did. he lied about having a blowjob which then became a 40million dollar circus that ended without a conviction (as everyone knew it would). the hope was that clinton would resign. and the same scenario is now playing out with trump. they will leave no stone unturned and never stop searching. russia was just the excuse to go on a fishing expedition. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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America is sick and tired of hearing the Democratic party whine about Russia because it's nothing but bullshit. russia was just the excuse to go on a fishing expedition. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:16:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Won't those already be rubble? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Taking possession of nuke facilities. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:16:43 PM EDT
[#44]
When they start to move US military dependents out of Korea, Japan, and the Western Pacific you will know they mean business
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:17:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To what end? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<SNIP> If things happen, I'd bet that China will go into NK. What do you think they'll be doing in NK? |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:18:04 PM EDT
[#46]
What does NK offer besides empty mouths and dirt? A glass wasteland is a perfectly good buffer zone
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:20:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When they start to move US military dependents out of Korea, Japan, and the Western Pacific you will know they mean business They have SOF. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:20:43 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A question for the Arf experts. How will China depose Kim if Kim doesn't want to be deposed? Do the have assets in place to assassinate him? Would they do it militarily if he threatens to set off a nuke or attack Guam or Seoul? If ordered by China, would Kim's generals assassinate him? It seems to me, without assets in place, with his hand on a nuke switch and his Generals willing to follow him, and no one wanting a nuclear war, hundreds of thousands dead in Seoul, or millions of starving refugees, that Kim might just have the whip hand here. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:21:56 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don't want 25 million starving, brainwashed people with virtually zero skill set flooding across the border. Then it becomes their problem |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 7:24:17 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don't want 25 million starving, brainwashed people with virtually zero skill set flooding across the border. Then it becomes their problem That would be much cheaper in the long run. |
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