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Posted: 7/11/2022 2:34:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fact the cars need all this shit in the first place is the problem. Adding loads and loads of horsepower doesn't necessarily increase the fun or make the car better. It's way more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow. Solves all the problems in your last sentence as well, when you accidentally go from 9/10ths to 11/10ths there is a big difference between going 80mph when it happens and 30mph. The most fun I ever have is out late at night or early in the morning when there is fresh snow, when you get it wrong you are going so slow there is all the time in the world to fix your mistake and at worst you are in a ditch or through a fence, nobody is going to die and the car isn't getting written off. You're not wrong. But it sells cars because it's more what people tell themselves. Easier to stroke a check then spend the time.  Attached FileFormer F1 driver told me he kept this because it was "unfettered". But then you got Kyle Busch rolling a LFA at buck twenty eight - but hell nobody got time for 45 mph  Prolly felt like he was barely over |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 2:34:54 PM EDT
[#2]
They can be made to run. I built this car and a C6 Z51 Corvette. The Corvette allowed Bigger tires and brakes.
The Mustang was harder to drive as fast as the Corvette on the track ( tracked the Mustang 20x at Willow Springs and the Corvette 4x)  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 2:36:54 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 7/11/2022 2:42:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gearing on old cars sucks. I'd kind of like to see someone pull the stock 4-speed non-overdrive transmission our of some popular muscle car model and replace it with something like a T56 and see how much of a difference that one change makes. A modern 6-10 speed auto in place of a turbo 350 and the like would be crazy, but likely impossible due to all of the electronics. 4 speed? Powerglide had 2 gears. I think a nice 8 speed would liven up most old cars, and it’s being done all the time now. You won’t find them bolted to a carbed SBC, people take full advantage of technology. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 2:44:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not wrong. But it sells cars because it's more what people tell themselves. Easier to stroke a check then spend the time. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14291/1071_JPG-2449022.JPG Former F1 driver told me he kept this because it was "unfettered". But then you got Kyle Busch rolling a LFA at buck twenty eight - but hell nobody got time for 45 mph Prolly felt like he was barely overUnfortunately true. Car makers are in tough spot, it always has to be more, you can't come out with a new model that has less power than the previous one. EV's are adding fuel to the fire because the one and only thing they happen to be good at in their current state is putting loads of torque down instantly and having blistering 0-whatever times. I think Porsche may be the only major manufacture to say "enough" and thats only for the GT cars, the 911 Turbo, Taycans and SUVs all keep getting more. Car buyers are our own worst enemies, even when we say we want a simple, light, inexpensive sports car and the makers listen we still bitch. Toyota 86 is a good example of this. Everyone wants a manual transmission on the secondary market but those same people weren't willing to drop the coin when the cars were new. Or "we want a fast wagon in the US" they give us a fast wagon "never mind, I think this crossover is better for me" |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 2:52:59 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 7/11/2022 2:58:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a stock little C code 289. No my 66 Mustang was not "fast." But with 380 whp now it is far from slow.. Car handles better than my 2015 GT Perf Pack. And fuck EV vehicles Now we are getting toes in the videos. 
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Posted: 7/11/2022 3:07:07 PM EDT
[#8]
My C4 corvettes 5.7 made 300 hp, 0-60 in about 5-6 seconds and I thought that was fast! In 1993.
My 2021 Audi A4 45 S will do 0-60 in 4.8 with all wheel drive and without any fanfare. Doesn’t feel anywhere as fast but it’s faster and much quieter. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 3:16:13 PM EDT
[#9]
My first car was an 86 iroc (came with that mighty 190hp 305) back in '95.
 I thought it was fast as shit. Thankfully I learned a thing or 2 since then and even though im now slowly "restoring" it .. it has a 406 sbc on nitorus.... it was FAST for circa 2000. Fast Forward and a few years ago I picked up my '18 ZL1 (still have the iroc btw). Needless to say, the ZL1 is better in every single way. That being said, I almost bought a 70 Chevelle SS instead of the ZL1. I had gone as far as visiting a few owners and asking all the questions. Reason I didnt get it... Like the 86... sooner or later, I will ALWAYS have to be messing with it to have it run right. I just didnt want to deal with 50+ year old wiring/parts. Yeah.. I could LSx it, but that would be even more money into it. the ZL1 is turn on and go. Plus there is NO way a Chevelle would do as good on the *autocross* track.
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Posted: 7/11/2022 3:33:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very few cars from 50 years ago are around today. True , only the desirable ones that lived in rust free for the most part states.. Point is, few people will be buying replacemecnt computers. Plastic body body parts engine sensors window motors and switches to put it all together in 2067 If you can get them, let alone have the skill to fix a 2017 challenger. The motors alone are 10k now. Computers will fail they will become money pits and trashed. 60 and 70s cars are much simpler avg guy can learn to do it and I bet some will still be around. Unless gas is illegal and everyone has 6 genders . Wich is a possibility. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 3:40:50 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 7/11/2022 3:45:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True , only the desirable ones that lived in rust free for the most part states.. Point is, few people will be buying replacemecnt computers. Plastic body body parts engine sensors window motors and switches to put it all together in 2067 If you can get them, let alone have the skill to fix a 2017 challenger. The motors alone are 10k now. Computers will fail they will become money pits and trashed. 60 and 70s cars are much simpler avg guy can learn to do it and I bet some will still be around. Unless gas is illegal and everyone has 6 genders . Wich is a possibility. Unless the laws change. The people of tomorrow will keep the cars of today alive, just like the people of today do for cars past. The passion is the same for those that have it. I am Also pretty sure that the technology will exist to support those hobbies, just like they do today. People are always so sure that “this time it is different” while the details often change, we tend to find out that “this time is no different.” We are already seeing electric crate motors. just like people replaced flatheads in 34 coupe with modern motors with 5 times the power. In 30 years some of them will have electric motors with a few thousand horsepower. The iphone kids of today will have modified cars with performance we can’t imagine and they will nerd out about their restoMod 99 Honda Civic with 2000 HP just like we do with old modified cars today. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 5:01:01 PM EDT
[#13]
If I ever win the lottery I am gonna do nothing but buuld cars rest of my days.
Unicorn right now would be a pair of Superperformance GT40s. One done as authentic as possible but with a 351 based 427. The other would be with a 4 rotor 26b billet rotary. Mazda 767b is one of the most amazing sounding engines at full uncork and would be god awful amazing at 10k rpm in a GT40 and if a sequential trans is available and could be fitted. As it stands my 66 is likely my last car I dump money into while I start to focus on paying house off quickly. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 5:17:51 PM EDT
[#14]
In 1969 I bought a brand new SS 396 Chevelle. It was butternut yellow and packed 325 HP. I thought the thing was a beast with the dome SS hoods and the mag wheels. Loved that car and it was fun to drive. Drag raced it against Mach 1's, road runners, GTO's etc. Only car that really kicked my ass bad was a Doge 440 RT, there was so much smoke from his tires I had to let up on the gas because I could not see and when I did he was so far ahead it did not matter.......The car was made for straight line drag racing, was not worth a dam on curves.....Came with front disc brakes but rear drum brakes which sucked.....Hot girls loved that car. :)
After I retired I bought a 2010 Shelby GT500 with 550 hp, dam thing was cool but did not have enough tires on it, could not use the HP. My wifes 82 Avanti with a small block 350 and 4bbl carb and positraction rear end would beat it in a 1/4 mile run.  
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Posted: 7/11/2022 5:35:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True , only the desirable ones that lived in rust free for the most part states.. Point is, few people will be buying replacemecnt computers. Plastic body body parts engine sensors window motors and switches to put it all together in 2067 If you can get them, let alone have the skill to fix a 2017 challenger. The motors alone are 10k now. Computers will fail they will become money pits and trashed. 60 and 70s cars are much simpler avg guy can learn to do it and I bet some will still be around. Unless gas is illegal and everyone has 6 genders . Wich is a possibility. Prodrive just built and sold a special run of '98 Impreza B22/WRC homage cars at $550,000 per, give or take, depending on options. Lots of guys still wrenching on old Supras and such too. Those cars aren't going to die out for lack of aftermarket support or interest. Maybe if the laws change or times get so hard not enough people can afford fun cars. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 5:40:14 PM EDT
[#16]
A E body or pony car with a cammed big block is pretty damn fast even by modern standards. 500hp will get you moving.
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Posted: 7/11/2022 5:45:00 PM EDT
[#17]
All it took heavy, 60's cars to run in the 12's was tire technology.
Many were, indeed, quick considering the technology available. And with high gear ratios they'd run 140ish with drum brakes. thrilling |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 6:34:10 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 7/11/2022 7:26:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show me a modern car with lines like my baby has??? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/525471/montewithshoes2_jpg-2449387.JPG While more subtle, the new Rolls Royce boat tail has double drop lines.  https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/gallery/in-images-the-second-bespoke-rolls-royce-boat-tail-dressed-in-a-warm-and-welcoming-shade/photos/2535150/lite/ |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 7:30:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While more subtle, the new Rolls Royce boat tail has double drop lines. https://images.app.goo.gl/aNgLaNomAB2DB6rn8 https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/gallery/in-images-the-second-bespoke-rolls-royce-boat-tail-dressed-in-a-warm-and-welcoming-shade/photos/2535150/lite/ If only it had a proper Roll Royce engine. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 7:34:43 PM EDT
[#21]
How many people got laid because they had a minivan?
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Posted: 7/11/2022 7:40:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many people got laid because they had a minivan? That’s how they wound up needing the minivan. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 7:46:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many people got laid because they had a minivan? Ask me about Station Wagons?!
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Posted: 7/11/2022 7:51:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Our 2018 Nissan Armada 2WD does 0-60 in 6s. I love that VK56DE V8 in that thing. DOHC with variable valve timing and direct injection.
That was sports car territory back then. Back in the early 2000s Mustang GTs did 0-60 in about 5s. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 8:33:07 PM EDT
[#25]
My 1969 VW bug beat every car off the line -------------until we got across the intersection. Those were the days.
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Posted: 7/11/2022 8:54:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't care you have not lived unless you have rowed through a munci 4 speed behind a 400hp 500ftlb torque monster in a A body. Mine was a 70 4-4-2. Nothing about that motor was stock. I take that back the rockers and pushrods were. I didn't have the money to upgrade the olds motor to roller rockers. BOP tax hurts. 68-72 GM A birdies are works of art |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 9:17:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Humblebrag... the wife's minivan would smoke most muscle cars.
I actually paid it off today  It has 2 turbos, some easy bolt ons and a tune, is AWD, and makes over 400 horsepower. I like my Mustangs, but if I could choose a muscle car give me a 60s Galaxy 500 or a *gasp* Thunderbolt. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 9:22:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 68-72 GM A birdies are works of art Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't care you have not lived unless you have rowed through a munci 4 speed behind a 400hp 500ftlb torque monster in a A body. Mine was a 70 4-4-2. Nothing about that motor was stock. I take that back the rockers and pushrods were. I didn't have the money to upgrade the olds motor to roller rockers. BOP tax hurts. 68-72 GM A birdies are works of art |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 9:25:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The dollar amount they might pull at auction is not the value they have. If that's all you think that they are, you are misguided and missing the point. My point exactly: they will never command a 6 or 7 figure premium like a 68 Camaro or 72 Chevelle. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 9:33:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The last few years of the Sienna before it went hybrid....it had a 3.5L V6 with 296hp.  |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 9:41:13 PM EDT
[#31]
The LS with a LSA (or whatever supercharger) makes things easy. I’m running 700 to the wheels with a stick bottom end LS3. E85 at a pump station and boost really changes the game.
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Posted: 7/11/2022 9:43:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Fuck ev’s
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Posted: 7/11/2022 9:54:48 PM EDT
[#33]
2014 Toyota Sienna SE 0-60 mph 7.4 Quarter mile 15.7 https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/toyota-0-60-mph-times/
1968 Pontiac GTO 400 Ram Air 0-60 mph 7.3 Quarter mile 15.9 https://www.zeroto60times.com/body-style/muscle-car/ 1968 Chevrolet Chevelle SS 396 0-60 mph 7.7 Quarter mile 15.8 1972 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 0-60 mph 7.4 Quarter mile 15.3 There are a ton of classic muscle cars that are faster. Just picked these 3 to show what compares to the wife's sad mobile. I'd also bet that with comparable rubber these old cars would be quite a bit faster. Those old bias tires were better at generating tire smoke than traction. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 10:13:53 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: . Planned obsolescence very few cars made in the last 5 years and from now on will be around in 50 years. Isn't that why muscle cars are worth anything at all? If they all survived, you could buy a 69 charger for $10K. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 10:18:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Driving something like a 1960s Mustang at 130 or through a mountain road is a whole different animal than a modern car. And few modern vehicles have any soul; sure they're faster, handle better, etc, but there's a very different feel to them, almost sterile in many ways. EV just suck all around: I don't care what they look like or how well they perform. The first and only time some friends and I watched some electric Grand Prix cars we all commented that they sounded like our old slot cars and while they all turned amazing numbers, they were boring. There was no sensory sensation, no visceral feeling that you get when you hear high performance engines screaming, smell the fuel and rubber, see the haze from the exhaust, etc. Having grown up going to drag races, I can't imagine how boring an electric drag race would be.  My 2018 Goldwing is nearly as fast as the 1972 H2 I bought new. Bit of a different riding experience. The H2 was tons of chills and thrills. The Goldwing is great to ride for days on end at high-ish speeds but doesn't get my pulse up. The faster Goldwing 0-60 time is largely due to the DCT, modern tires, and traction control able to get any ham-handed putz off the line. Standing starts on the H2 were interesting. 2018 Honda Gold Wing Tour 0-60 mph 3.9 Quarter mile 12.6 https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/honda-motorcycles-0-60-mph-times/ 1972 H2 0-60 mph 5.0 Quarter mile 12.3 - several sources |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 10:28:33 PM EDT
[#36]
what do you want from cars that are 50-55 years old. The ramchargers were running 11.3 at 128mph in 1965. Not to bad for old pushrod lead sleds
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Posted: 7/11/2022 10:49:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Slower than a minivan? I doubt it...
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Posted: 7/11/2022 11:34:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2014 Toyota Sienna SE 0-60 mph 7.4 Quarter mile 15.7 https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/toyota-0-60-mph-times/ 1968 Pontiac GTO 400 Ram Air 0-60 mph 7.3 Quarter mile 15.9 https://www.zeroto60times.com/body-style/muscle-car/ 1968 Chevrolet Chevelle SS 396 0-60 mph 7.7 Quarter mile 15.8 1972 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 0-60 mph 7.4 Quarter mile 15.3 There are a ton of classic muscle cars that are faster. Just picked these 3 to show what compares to the wife's sad mobile. I'd also bet that with comparable rubber these old cars would be quite a bit faster. Those old bias tires were better at generating tire smoke than traction. Gearing is often overlooked when people compare 0-60 times. Like the retarded Altima vs Ferrari 308 comparison earlier in the thread. Shorter gears are going to take an extra shift vs an automatic transmission that is geared tall specifically to look good on paper 0-62. The car with the close ratio gears is going to feel faster and be way more fun in real life but not look as impressive in road and track. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 11:40:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: at that point they have absolutely no relation to the original car and you have basically built it from the ground up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Old OEM cars are slow as fuck. Super heavy, big ass low horsepower v8. Shitty suspension. But when you lighten them up, tube frame, all aluminum badass engines, turbos, fuel injection, they are beasts at that point they have absolutely no relation to the original car and you have basically built it from the ground up. Bullshit. You keep the body, tube frame it and it's still a old school muscle car, just made into a race car. I understand what you mean, you could just back half and tub it and still keep most of the original frame. My point is that stock old cars sucked other than surviving car accidents but they're still bad fucking ass |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 11:42:41 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 7/11/2022 11:45:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryI've seen you post that beauty before. Black on black GTX is very, very nice. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 11:45:38 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 7/12/2022 12:37:05 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not that the old cars were really fast, it's that they felt really fast. Manual everything. It took some level of skill to drive them. 100mph in a new car feels like 200mph in an old one.
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Posted: 7/12/2022 12:50:02 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a '79 Fiat X1/9 with a 140mph speedo. The needle touched that number a few times. Although the car was likely doing just over 100, it felt like the speedo might have been right. It's that "feels like speed," directly related to Feels Like Temperature. I still want another one, I loved it when it was right, and with an engine swap it could be even better.
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Posted: 7/12/2022 1:02:59 AM EDT
[#45]
Owned a 1968 Firebird 400, M21, 3.42 positraction. Run under 8 to 60 and at 120 i felt it drifting all over the road. Owned a 1988 Turbo T-bird. Run 0-60 in 8.5 and at 140 it was rock solid and handled the curves great for such a large car. It got 22 in town and 27 on the highway. The Firebird, 12 mpg with no PS, PB or air.
Which one would i rather have back? The Firebird. It was just something visceral driving and listening to the quadrajet open up. (Actually both if i could). |
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Posted: 7/12/2022 1:14:09 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gearing is often overlooked when people compare 0-60 times. Like the retarded Altima vs Ferrari 308 comparison earlier in the thread. Shorter gears are going to take an extra shift vs an automatic transmission that is geared tall specifically to look good on paper 0-62. The car with the close ratio gears is going to feel faster and be way more fun in real life but not look as impressive in road and track. I *kind of* agree....but at the track, that is a loser argument. You either turn the number or you dont, if the conversation is "who is faster." You are trying to have a different conversation. A subjective conversation. |
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Posted: 7/12/2022 1:32:25 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Old OEM cars are slow as fuck. Super heavy, big ass low horsepower v8. Shitty suspension. But when you lighten them up, tube frame, all aluminum badass engines, turbos, fuel injection, they are beasts 425hp and 460ft/lb is low horsepower  They offered so many more engine options back then, yes some where bad. |
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Posted: 7/12/2022 7:36:18 AM EDT
[#48]
Didn’t have things like this in the 60’s, but nothing stopping you from putting it in a car from the 60’s.
This is my friends motor going in a C5 corvette with a front mounted power glide. Don’t need 10 speeds when you make 2500 plus hp. Car is also getting a 4 link rear suspension. Proving only your imagination and skills set limits what can be done...or your wallet if you need to pay someone else to build it for you. Lol. 
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Posted: 7/12/2022 9:53:14 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I *kind of* agree....but at the track, that is a loser argument. You either turn the number or you dont, if the conversation is "who is faster." You are trying to have a different conversation. A subjective conversation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Gearing is often overlooked when people compare 0-60 times. Like the retarded Altima vs Ferrari 308 comparison earlier in the thread. Shorter gears are going to take an extra shift vs an automatic transmission that is geared tall specifically to look good on paper 0-62. The car with the close ratio gears is going to feel faster and be way more fun in real life but not look as impressive in road and track. I *kind of* agree....but at the track, that is a loser argument. You either turn the number or you dont, if the conversation is "who is faster." You are trying to have a different conversation. A subjective conversation. A car that’s optimized for a 0-60 or 0-62 time isn’t going to be the best 1/8mi, 1/4mi, bonneville car either. Your buying a car that was setup they way it is to have impressive stats on a magazine page at the expense of actual real world use, whatever that may be, drag racing, road course, backroads, etc. Sure the fun part is subjective but I’ve never heard anyone praise a car for it’s tall gearing. |
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Posted: 7/12/2022 10:23:08 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't care and will not buy an electric car. I am old enough to never own one. Nobody even said electric car. Paging Dr. Freud. It's like blurted out "I'm not gay" in a room full of people who weren't even talking to you. |
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