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Posted: 5/23/2024 7:41:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When is welfare going to run out of money "One of the last acts of our government right before it collapses will be to send out the last round of welfare checks" |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 7:51:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Give me back what I paid in for the last 39 years. Then do whatever they want to do. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Give me everything I’ve already paid in and put it in an investment account. After that stop taxing me for this BS. This. Give me back what I paid in for the last 39 years. Then do whatever they want to do. Your employer put in the same as you. They should get their money back as well. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 7:53:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Honest question: why couldn't the government have instead just put that money in a "bank account" and let it accrue interest at whatever the fed rate is? Then you get whatever the balance is when you retire.
Of course, I'd prefer the government not steal from me and my children at all, but that's obviously not going to happen. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 7:55:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Give me back what I paid in for the last 39 years. Then do whatever they want to do. That's not how taxes work... SS, if it's going to exist at all, should be based on how many productive, net-tax-paying children you've created. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 7:59:07 PM EDT
[#5]
I said "Something Else"...
The .gov will raise the tax, and extend the Full Retirement Age. They've done that several times over my lifetime. Full Retirement Age went from 65 to 66, to 66 and 2/3, to 67. They'll probably push it to 68 or 69. And another 1/2% on the tax. That should fix it, or at least kick the can for another generation. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 8:03:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Read the OP and first post.....
I answered the poll with raise taxes but think it will be a combination of that and some "means testing" or other various ways to bend people over that put the most in the system......and redistribute it to everyone else. ...now to go read how many think the same and of course..... the purse swinging..... 
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Posted: 5/23/2024 8:04:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honest question: why couldn't the government have instead just put that money in a "bank account" and let it accrue interest at whatever the fed rate is? Then you get whatever the balance is when you retire. Of course, I'd prefer the government not steal from me and my children at all, but that's obviously not going to happen. And then that money is just sitting there, and there are congressmen and a president over there eyeballing the money, and no one can stop the robbery that followed. And then they took advantage of our generosity and offered SS disability. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 8:06:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well shit. That’s when I can collect. I can collect 2 years before that......but there probably won't be anything. eliminate some unnecessary crap and tax the hell out of remittances to Mexico and other places |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 8:07:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do people put Medicare and Medicaid in the same bucket? They are different. My thoughts exactly. I pay about $400 per month for my Medicare Part B. That is for Medicare only, not the MediGap loan or the prescription plan. If I was on Medicaid, I would pay nothing. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 8:08:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Federalize all 401K, pensions, savings, checking accounts. Institute a federal sales tax. More mandatory jabs to increase likelihood of the older crowd most likely to not be contributors to experience suddenly. Dissolution of border except for tighter controls on producers trying to leave & take wealth out of the country. Watch the stock market collapse |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 8:09:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honest question: why couldn't the government have instead just put that money in a "bank account" and let it accrue interest at whatever the fed rate is? Then you get whatever the balance is when you retire. Of course, I'd prefer the government not steal from me and my children at all, but that's obviously not going to happen. Then they wouldn't have been able to pay people more than they had contributed. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 8:09:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Subsidized medical care for: the elderly or the indigent, respectively. Neither is funded adequately to meet projected shortfalls, neither comes even laughably close to compensating medical professionals for their costs to service that population. Medicaid is responsible for long-term care funding, and most of that pool is nursing home care for, again, the elderly. One dollar in three. Most of the debt required to fund that, and every other government expenditure, is held domestically. We're in hock to ourselves. How much do you pay for Medicaid? I pay over $500 for my Medicare, MediGap and prescription plan. Almost $400 of that goes to Medicare, now tell me is welfare. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 8:12:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's how the program was sold in the beginning. And then that money is just sitting there, and there are congressmen and a president over there eyeballing the money, and no one can stop the robbery that followed. And then they took advantage of our generosity and offered SS disability. It is not a robbery. Congress voted the SS scheme into existence. They directed the surplus to be invested in Treasury bonds. (Kind of silly, but that is what they did). Then, Congress decided to spend some money, all perfectly legal. So, it is not robbery, even if it is not wise. Voters elected the members to Congress. If you don't like the laws that Congress passes, elect some one else who will be more likely to act as you see fit. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 8:13:27 PM EDT
[#14]
They are not running out of money for illegal aliens.
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Posted: 5/23/2024 8:56:38 PM EDT
[#15]
It could happen because the rotten dem`s are giving our country away !!!
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:00:03 PM EDT
[#16]
I’ll be 67. I have no hope that the damn SS theft will ever be repaid at any level.
Voted ‘something else.’ That would be KILL IT! It’s a pyramid welfare scheme. If I had that money, and invested it, I’d have far more income at that age. GET OUT OF MY PAYCHECK, GOVT THIEVES!!! |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:04:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not how taxes work... SS, if it's going to exist at all, should be based on how many productive, net-tax-paying children you've created. Fuck that. My taxes have been paying for the education of others unproductive crotch fruit for 50 fucking years. Kiss my ass |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:05:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll be 67. I have no hope that the damn SS theft will ever be repaid at any level. Voted ‘something else.’ That would be KILL IT! It’s a pyramid welfare scheme. If I had that money, and invested it, I’d have far more income at that age. GET OUT OF MY PAYCHECK, GOVT THIEVES!!! They will pay you back in full, with a smile on their face....with worthless dollars they inflated on purpose to reduce the value of the debt. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:06:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do people put Medicare and Medicaid in the same bucket? They are different. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Oh agreed. The link is just a handy, easy way to start recognizing the magnitude of some of the drivers. Noted though, that 20% of 1 2 trillion is still 240 billion. Or a hair less than 1/3 of the entire defense budget. It's going to be hard to scrimp and save 240 billion. Absolutely agree on Medicare/Medicaid. I'm honestly surprised. Gov hasn't pressured local state medical licensing agencies to make Medicare-patient service a condition of licensure. Why do people put Medicare and Medicaid in the same bucket? They are different. And there are people enrolled in both concurrently. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:11:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Probably remove the wage base limit, at the very least jack it way up to 500K+
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:14:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Introduce Covid 2025 to kill off the 65plus population This is my thought. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:46:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honest question: why couldn't the government have instead just put that money in a "bank account" and let it accrue interest at whatever the fed rate is? Then you get whatever the balance is when you retire. Of course, I'd prefer the government not steal from me and my children at all, but that's obviously not going to happen. Theoretically they did that, but instead of a bank account they bought govt. IOUs, i.e. bonds, that paid very low interest rates. IOW, they got real money from employees and employers, and bought fake money with it and used the real money for govt. expenses. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:52:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SS does not run out of money in 2035. It runs out of cash reserves but people will still be contributing. "Social Security will still exist after 2035, according to the trustees' findings, but retirees will only receive 83% of their full benefits. Preventing that shortfall requires congressional action and would likely involve trimming benefits or increasing the Social Security payroll tax." Government will not reduce benefits since they will already be lower as noted above, it would be political suicide. They will reduce benefits for younger contributors and push the age to retire back even more. They will probably raise taxes and reduce tax deductions. Plus everything else they can think of. It's funny the whole scam was based upon the idea that we were not expected to live long enough to collect any of it. Technically correct. The reserves run out, but contributions continue to flow in but not enough to cover payments. So, the system goes broke in 2035 unless something is done. Hence this thread. It's like having a loan, and you continue to pay on it even though the payments are not enough to cover principal + interest. You are in default at that point. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:53:31 PM EDT
[#24]
congress should end any and all programs that are funded by the SS fund that are not funds paid out to those that have paid into the program. i.e. return SS to what it was originally designed to be. Yes I mean SS disability, and SS insurance. Only pay out according to what people contributed. And end this BS SS retirement payments to those that never worked.
At this point, they should end future SS payments, and let SS die. It was a terrible idea to begin with. So terrible, that congress omitted themselves, along with several unions workers at the time. I believe that RR employees negotiated themselves out of SS and a few other s also??? Fucking illegals show up in this country and immediately start drawing SS. Our government considers it a disability to NOT speak English, so these fuckers get SSD along with all the debit cards they can collect and many many other free items. All the social programs that congress decided to fund with the SS surplus that the fund once had should be defunded. They started out "borrowing" money from the SS fund, which they never even attempted to pay back. Fast forward to now, and congress is directly funding all sorts of welfare programs out of SS funds stolen from the taxpayer. They obviously won't do anything remotely like that and will most likely cut the benefits, and still raise taxes AND SS payments too. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:57:14 PM EDT
[#25]
You all are thinking like guys that have to balance a budget. It's the government. Not having the money to pay for it has never stopped them from doing a single thing.
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:58:25 PM EDT
[#26]
If our pimp Unca Shugga eould cut back on the laundering, skimming, bribery etc. There’d be enough to pay for what we need and fic SS.
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Posted: 5/23/2024 10:08:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Technically correct. The reserves run out, but contributions continue to flow in but not enough to cover payments. So, the system goes broke in 2035 unless something is done. Hence this thread. It's like having a loan, and you continue to pay on it even though the payments are not enough to cover principal + interest. You are in default at that point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: SS does not run out of money in 2035. It runs out of cash reserves but people will still be contributing. "Social Security will still exist after 2035, according to the trustees' findings, but retirees will only receive 83% of their full benefits. Preventing that shortfall requires congressional action and would likely involve trimming benefits or increasing the Social Security payroll tax." Government will not reduce benefits since they will already be lower as noted above, it would be political suicide. They will reduce benefits for younger contributors and push the age to retire back even more. They will probably raise taxes and reduce tax deductions. Plus everything else they can think of. It's funny the whole scam was based upon the idea that we were not expected to live long enough to collect any of it. Technically correct. The reserves run out, but contributions continue to flow in but not enough to cover payments. So, the system goes broke in 2035 unless something is done. Hence this thread. It's like having a loan, and you continue to pay on it even though the payments are not enough to cover principal + interest. You are in default at that point. They cannot default. They will just make up hundreds of trillions of dollars to pay off the loan. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 10:08:56 PM EDT
[#28]
My guess
1- Raise the cap on contributions so the "rich" pay their "fair share" 2- Increase taxes, against the wealthiest at first but it will affect everyone. SS is only part of a much bigger problem 3- Inflate the currency because they won't be able to raise taxes enough 4-Introduce a means test for the wealthiest at first and gradually apply it to exclude more and more people 5-Start doing things like nationalizing the 401(k)s of and revoking the benefits for unpopular groups of people, and gradually expand the program as a form of political intimidation ("White supremacist terrorists on the no fly list shouldn't have a retirement!") 6- They still won't be able to fund it anyway. When a big enough part of the population is no longer receiving real benefit from SS the payments will stop keeping up with inflation and eventually social security will be effectively meaningless |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 10:09:17 PM EDT
[#29]
So terrible, that congress omitted themselves, along with several unions workers at the time. I believe that RR employees negotiated themselves out of SS and a few other s also??? State and local government employees can be exempt, depending upon their respective government choices. Some are, some aren't. They also allowed pastors to make a one time choice to opt out. I don't believe this was negotiated, it was more of a bribe. Later, the Amish were exempted. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 10:10:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They will devalue the currency until the liability is manageable. This. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 10:27:36 PM EDT
[#31]
I'll be 59, but 5 years retired from Social Security. Lol
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:04:15 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because those who earn more would not get proportionally more. We are way past the point where screwing over higher wage earners is fair. The higher wage/income earners already pay more than their fair share....they are being screwed. That is also why means testing is a terrible idea only to be suggested by Democrats and fellow socialist commies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Honestly, why not increase the salary limit to $500k? Because those who earn more would not get proportionally more. We are way past the point where screwing over higher wage earners is fair. The higher wage/income earners already pay more than their fair share....they are being screwed. That is also why means testing is a terrible idea only to be suggested by Democrats and fellow socialist commies. I am not saying it is fair but basically only the top 10% ever hit the SS cap. That means the other 90% don't. Which voting group will win at the polls? |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:14:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who are these non-contributors you are talking about? Other than spouses, dependent children and in some rare cases other dependents, you had to have paid into the system for 40 quarters. wow you are so misinformed |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:18:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Social Security runs out of money? It never had the money to begin with. It's always been a pay-as-you-go program. Raise taxes or make cuts. WRONG. SS fund had a huge surplus years ago and was just too big of a temptation for our criminals in DC to just leave it be. They first started to "Borrow" money from the SS fund, but somehow never paid it back. Then they just flat out |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:21:10 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honest question: why couldn't the government have instead just put that money in a "bank account" and let it accrue interest at whatever the fed rate is? Then you get whatever the balance is when you retire. Of course, I'd prefer the government not steal from me and my children at all, but that's obviously not going to happen. Paraphrasing P.J. O'Rourke (RIP), but when you give your money to a bank to put in a savings account, they invest it. We have a word for when Government takes tax money and starts investing it in the marketplace, picking winners and losers. We call it, "Socialism." |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:25:58 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: WRONG. SS fund had a huge surplus years ago and was just too big of a temptation for our criminals in DC to just leave it be. They first started to "Borrow" money from the SS fund, but somehow never paid it back. Then they just flat out I have pointed it out several times already, but I am going to do it again. Congress can not commit a crime when it decides to spend the so called "lockbox" money. They are the ones in charge, and get to make the decisions, whether you or I agree with them or not. It is no more criminal for them to spend that money on what they choose than it would be for you to spend your own money on anything. The Congress in 1935 didn't pass a law that can not be changed by any subsequent Congress. Is SS a bad scheme? I believe so. Is it criminal, or has it been conducted criminally? I see absolutely no evidence of that. |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:27:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much do you pay for Medicaid? I pay over $500 for my Medicare, MediGap and prescription plan. Almost $400 of that goes to Medicare, now tell me is welfare. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Subsidized medical care for: the elderly or the indigent, respectively. Neither is funded adequately to meet projected shortfalls, neither comes even laughably close to compensating medical professionals for their costs to service that population. Medicaid is responsible for long-term care funding, and most of that pool is nursing home care for, again, the elderly. One dollar in three. Most of the debt required to fund that, and every other government expenditure, is held domestically. We're in hock to ourselves. How much do you pay for Medicaid? I pay over $500 for my Medicare, MediGap and prescription plan. Almost $400 of that goes to Medicare, now tell me is welfare. How much do you believe your medical care would cost on the market if you had to pay cash, and .Gov didn't have both of their grimy fists on the scale? Particularly in the last few years of life, where even if we don't believe that quote floating around about 80% of lifetime medical expenses in the last 10% of a life, it's surely most of those expenses. Just because you pay some amount for a service or object, doesn't matter much when the true costs to provide that service are multiples of what you spent. Who makes up the difference? .Gov, which makes it a subsidy. I.e., a handout. |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:29:42 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your employer put in the same as you. They should get their money back as well. From an employers perspective: wages+benefits+taxes=total cost of retaining said labor. The employer couldn’t care less what portion of the total cost gets divvied up into various cost buckets. As long as benefits to employer exceed costs, labor will be retained. Long story short, the employment taxes paid by employer are $$ they would have gladly paid either in wages or benefits. For the purpose of these kinds of discussions, the individual is due both the employee and employer portion of SS taxes. |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:33:26 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess 1- Raise the cap on contributions so the "rich" pay their "fair share" 2- Increase taxes, against the wealthiest at first but it will affect everyone. SS is only part of a much bigger problem 3- Inflate the currency because they won't be able to raise taxes enough 4-Introduce a means test for the wealthiest at first and gradually apply it to exclude more and more people 5-Start doing things like nationalizing the 401(k)s of and revoking the benefits for unpopular groups of people, and gradually expand the program as a form of political intimidation ("White supremacist terrorists on the no fly list shouldn't have a retirement!") 6- They still won't be able to fund it anyway. When a big enough part of the population is no longer receiving real benefit from SS the payments will stop keeping up with inflation and eventually social security will be effectively meaningless I don't see the bold part ever happening. I mean once you do this the market will tank regardless of who got "jacked" by the feds. Now 1-4, I totally see. I also see them increasing the age limits to collect. |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:35:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Theoretically they did that, but instead of a bank account they bought govt. IOUs, i.e. bonds, that paid very low interest rates. IOW, they got real money from employees and employers, and bought fake money with it and used the real money for govt. expenses. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Honest question: why couldn't the government have instead just put that money in a "bank account" and let it accrue interest at whatever the fed rate is? Then you get whatever the balance is when you retire. Of course, I'd prefer the government not steal from me and my children at all, but that's obviously not going to happen. Theoretically they did that, but instead of a bank account they bought govt. IOUs, i.e. bonds, that paid very low interest rates. IOW, they got real money from employees and employers, and bought fake money with it and used the real money for govt. expenses. The govt paid the same rate on borrowed surplus SS monies that they would have paid in the open market thru bond auctions. You can question the law that required the excess to be invested in such a manner, but the treasury didn’t get a deal on borrowing from the SS trust fund. Absent such a law, the excess would have sat unused, and the Fed Govt would have gone to open market for borrowing. |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:38:02 AM EDT
[#41]
By then, Ukraine will have been victorious and be on their feet, and will be gladly sending us aid to cover social security, as payback for bankrolling their pensions and salaries
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:42:29 AM EDT
[#42]
For the purpose of these kinds of discussions, the individual is due both the employee and employer portion of SS taxes. +1! The fiction that the employer pays half is indeed silly. Not the only fiction involved in the SS scheme, but one of the sillliest. Except maybe for calling the SS tax "contributions". |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 10:45:31 AM EDT
[#43]
You can question the law that required the excess to be invested in such a manner, but the treasury didn’t get a deal on borrowing from the SS trust fund. Absent such a law, the excess would have sat unused, and the Fed Govt would have gone to open market for borrowing. Treasury didn't get a deal, the SSA got a deal. They can redeem their special bonds at par before maturity. Other bond holders don't get to do this. |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 11:55:46 AM EDT
[#44]
Let it die.
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Posted: 5/24/2024 11:59:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Means testing applicants.
You have a half million in a retirement account? You get half the benefit. You have $20 in your checking account? You get the full benefit. The government solution will always be to punish success and reward failure. They’ll increase taxes too because fuck you. |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 11:59:50 AM EDT
[#46]
Social security is theft
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Posted: 5/24/2024 12:02:53 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who are these non-contributors you are talking about? Other than spouses, dependent children and in some rare cases other dependents, you had to have paid into the system for 40 quarters. Non working spouses getting benefits is stupid. My uncles wife never worked a day in her life. Never paid a single dime into social security. She gets a check every month based on my uncles benefit. She should be getting nothing. |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 12:05:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are not running out of money for illegal aliens. Or Ukraine, Israel and dozens of other useless shitholes we support. |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 12:09:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Non working spouses getting benefits is stupid. My uncles wife never worked a day in her life. Never paid a single dime into social security. She gets a check every month based on my uncles benefit. She should be getting nothing. Back in the day when SS was started, non-working spouses were much more common. Times have changed a lot since then. One of the huge disadvantages of being forced into SS is that you will have much less to leave to your spouse/family when you die. Over time, over generations, this can have a huge effect on people. I some times wonder if the original SS advocates wouldn't be appalled by what their brainchild has become. |
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Posted: 5/24/2024 12:13:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Technically correct. The reserves run out, but contributions continue to flow in but not enough to cover payments. So, the system goes broke in 2035 unless something is done. Hence this thread. It's like having a loan, and you continue to pay on it even though the payments are not enough to cover principal + interest. You are in default at that point. The system would not be broke. People would get about 80% of their normal benefits. |
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