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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:44:19 PM EDT
Posted over in the 1911 section but figured GD would have a field day with this.
Casing + primer + cocked + locked + drop = BANG! XC is marketed as Duty & Competition.  Attached File Staccato XC fails drop test YouTube Shorts: https://youtube.com/shorts/eT1tlBR1W-w?si=g2pvGRCclkf4edmp Instagram Reels: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7XIlmNOCwi/ |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:49:42 PM EDT
[#1]
But that 1.5lbs trigger pull.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:50:17 PM EDT
[#2]
So it's just as safe as an ar15.........
The ar15 can go bang just dropping the bolt on a loaded round. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:51:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it's just as safe as an ar15......... The ar15 can go bang just dropping the bolt on a loaded round.  Attached FileHave you ever ah... Used an AR15 before? 
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:52:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Muh overpriced, boutique pistol!
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:52:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it's just as safe as an ar15......... The ar15 can go bang just dropping the bolt on a loaded round. Lol. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 12:55:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryYea and I've had a factory ar15 go bang when dropping the bolt on factory ammo. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:00:36 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:01:15 PM EDT
[#8]
I've shot four different Stacattos. Two were local police duty guns. The two non duty guns jammed. Both jammed Stacattos had few rounds through them.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:05:28 PM EDT
[#9]
In this thread we learn how few people know that the ar15 has a floating firing pin and have probably thrown away chambered ammo thinking it was a dud because of a dimpled primer.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:09:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Series 70 1911 actions are not drop safe. This is why colt and kimber went to the series 80 (though I don’t personally believe it necessary).
So, technically a multitude of 1911 pattern guns would probably not pass a drop test. Hilton Yam of 10-8 performance did a test a while back on this, and IIRC even the titanium firing pin guns (which is usually the suggested drop safe fix for series 70 1911s) went bang when dropped. CZ Shadow 2s are also not drop safe, and neither are most shotguns. ETA: I also believe a member here dropped his Nighthawk 1911 and had it go boom in a bathroom. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:10:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In this thread we learn how few people know that the ar15 has a floating firing pin and have probably thrown away chambered ammo thinking it was a dud because of a dimpled primer.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:11:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yea and I've had a factory ar15 go bang when dropping the bolt on factory ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted: Yea and I've had a factory ar15 go bang when dropping the bolt on factory ammo. You have a stuck firing pin, worlds softest primer or what? Cause that ain't supposed to happen. You get little firing pin marks on the primers from the floating firing pin, but thats about it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:11:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Series 70 1911 actions are not drop safe. This is why colt and kimber went to the series 80 (though I don’t personally believe it necessary). So, technically a multitude of 1911 pattern guns would probably not pass a drop test. Hilton Yam of 10-8 performance did a test a while back on this, and IIRC even the titanium firing pin guns (which is usually the suggested drop safe fix for series 70 1911s) went bang when dropped. CZ Shadow 2s are also not drop safe, and neither are most shotguns. ETA: I also believe a member here dropped his Nighthawk 1911 and had it go boom in a bathroom. But muh second sear shelf... |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:15:44 PM EDT
[#14]
I mean they’re a poors 2011. Get a good one.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:15:58 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:16:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Can you imagine some dude in 1874 yammering about how dropping his SAA killed his horse?
"How dare they make something that goes bang when you drop it! Scooter should still be alive!" ... The other guy at the bar would have said something like "You're a fucking idiot" and faced the other direction. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:16:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have a stuck firing pin, worlds softest primer or what? Cause that ain't supposed to happen. You get little firing pin marks on the primers from the floating firing pin, but thats about it. Same exact principle behind the 1911 being not drop safe and the reason for using special primers for AR platform. It just takes the right set of circumstances to go bang. I also know someone who was shooting wolf ammo. Had a loaded round get stuck in the chamber and when he performed a rack rack rack it went bang when the bolt dropped after a few racks. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:18:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But that 1.5lbs trigger pull. Trigger weight has nothing to do with it, it was all the inertia of the firing pin. Simple fix, lighter weight firing pin, or stronger firing pin spring. I wonder if the thing was stock or had some after market or worn out springs. This is what the series 80s stuff was supposed to fix, same with Kimber's system. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:20:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Inertia can be a bitch sometimes.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:20:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryHe is right if the primer is soft enough, why do you think milspec primers are harder. And some people recommend against using cci 400 primers in ar's. https://www.reddit.com/r/reloading/comments/ich5yc/question_about_cci_400_small_rifle_primers_in_223/ @Blanco_Diablo |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:21:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So it's just as safe as an ar15......... The ar15 can go bang just dropping the bolt on a loaded round. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/200-816.gif Have you ever ah... Used an AR15 before? You might want to do a little research before taking such an aggressive stance. Any idea why primers for ammo intended for the ar has very hard primers. Ever hear of the member here named Crawford, iirc, who ATF charged with having a machine gun and part of their evidence was it doubling with ammo using very soft primers. AR has a floating firing pin, no spring, no safety. Similar issue with M1 and M1a. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:21:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trigger weight has nothing to do with it, it was all the inertia of the firing pin. Simple fix, lighter weight firing pin, or stronger firing pin spring. I wonder if the thing was stock or had some after market or worn out springs. This is what the series 80s stuff was supposed to fix, same with Kimber's system. Ben reported playing around with recoil spring weights (going heavier) but all other components of the XC are stock/OEM. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:23:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Series 70 1911 actions are not drop safe. This is why colt and kimber went to the series 80 (though I don’t personally believe it necessary). So, technically a multitude of 1911 pattern guns would probably not pass a drop test. Hilton Yam of 10-8 performance did a test a while back on this, and IIRC even the titanium firing pin guns (which is usually the suggested drop safe fix for series 70 1911s) went bang when dropped. CZ Shadow 2s are also not drop safe, and neither are most shotguns. ETA: I also believe a member here dropped his Nighthawk 1911 and had it go boom in a bathroom. Kimber FPB design is vastly superior and simpler than the abomination Colt uses. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:25:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You might want to do a little research before taking such an aggressive stance. Any idea why primers for ammo intended for the ar has very hard primers. Ever hear of the member here named Crawford, iirc, who ATF charged with having a machine gun and part of their evidence was it doubling with ammo using very soft primers. AR has a floating firing pin, no spring, no safety. Similar issue with M1 and M1a. Aaannnnddd....beat. 
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:26:07 PM EDT
[#25]
So are all staccatos not drop safe or what
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:27:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trigger weight has nothing to do with it, it was all the inertia of the firing pin. Simple fix, lighter weight firing pin, or stronger firing pin spring. I wonder if the thing was stock or had some after market or worn out springs. This is what the series 80s stuff was supposed to fix, same with Kimber's system. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But that 1.5lbs trigger pull. Trigger weight has nothing to do with it, it was all the inertia of the firing pin. Simple fix, lighter weight firing pin, or stronger firing pin spring. I wonder if the thing was stock or had some after market or worn out springs. This is what the series 80s stuff was supposed to fix, same with Kimber's system. The light pull can be a symptom of the light firing pin spring. Because to get those light pulls, the mainspring usually is reduced power and thereby necessitates a lighter FPS. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:29:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So are all staccatos not drop safe or what |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:31:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ben reported playing around with recoil spring weights (going heavier) but all other components of the XC are stock/OEM. That could have contributed some. A lighter recoil spring would allow some of the impact energy from hitting the ground start opening the slide. A heavier spring would cause less shock absorption. I don't know how much, but if it was just on the edge with a stock spring that extra couple % could make a difference. I would like to see it tested 10 times, with stock spring and heavier spring to see if it was a fluke. But again we have known for 100 years that 1911s can do this. The good thing is its muzzle down impacts only. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:35:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That could have contributed some. A lighter recoil spring would allow some of the impact energy from hitting the ground start opening the slide. A heavier spring would cause less shock absorption. I don't know how much, but if it was just on the edge with a stock spring that extra couple % could make a difference. I would like to see it tested 10 times, with stock spring and heavier spring to see if it was a fluke. But again we have known for 100 years that 1911s can do this. The good thing is its muzzle down impacts only. Recoil spring wouldn't change relationship of FP to breach face interaction. Only how fast the frame would move forward (downward). |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:37:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Don't drop it?
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:39:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So are all staccatos not drop safe or what Every 1911 up until 1980 had that "problem." Know why it's not an issue? Because it only rears its head 90* muzzle down. This means there is a loud bang and the muzzle of your gun gets fuxord. That's about it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:41:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Don't Staccatos have 70 series internals, or do they have a firing pin plunger? 70 series' have never been drop safe. The firing pin is not immobilized.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:46:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Yeah old news, 1922 type pistols can go boom when dropped on the muzzle end anddischarge into the ground, not optimal but very low on the danger scale (unless you are wearing crocs).
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:46:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't Staccatos have 70 series internals, or do they have a firing pin plunger? 70 series' have never been drop safe. The firing pin is not immobilized. All of the 40 or so manufacturers of modern "2011" style pistols that I have researched are of the 70 series. That said, the vast majority are not marketed as duty firearms. They're designed for competition and/or range toys. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:50:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Roger from QVO tactical has an XC that was configured in a way similar to a P, little heavier trigger (4.5# standard P) and recoil spring, he claims Staccato will do that for you if you like.
I don't really get the hate people have for Staccato, I recently bought a P and a CS and I'm very happy with them, only a total of 800rds through both but I just bought them last month, zero issues at all. There are a ton of YT vids with people claiming to have thousands of trouble free rounds through theirs. Sure they're expensive but still on the low end for 2011s. For the first time in a long time, I've enjoyed shooting again. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:53:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Roger from QVO tactical has an XC that was configured in a way similar to a P, little heavier trigger (4.5# standard P) and recoil spring, he claims Staccato will do that for you if you like. I don't really get the hate people have for Staccato, I recently bought a P and a CS and I'm very happy with them, only a total of 800rds through both but I just bought them last month, zero issues at all. There are a ton of YT vids with people claiming to have thousands of trouble free rounds through theirs. Sure they're expensive but still on the low end for 2011s. For the first time in a long time, I've enjoyed shooting again. There's 2 types of people who hate on staccatos. 1. Those who are poor 2. Those who spent more money on a different brand of 2011 to flex on poors. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:54:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yea and I've had a factory ar15 go bang when dropping the bolt on factory ammo. Just one round? Weird. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:56:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Ben knows that 1911s can fire if dropped muzzle down. He's posting this specifically to stir up internet controversy.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:56:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's 2 types of people who hate on staccatos. 1. Those who are poor 2. Those who spent more money on a different brand of 2011 to flex on poors. I wish I could afford one...but am not part of the 87% on here who are multi-millionaires. 
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:56:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of the 40 or so manufacturers of modern "2011" style pistols that I have researched are of the 70 series. That said, the vast majority are not marketed as duty firearms. They're designed for competition and/or range toys. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:57:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you imagine some dude in 1874 yammering about how dropping his SAA killed his horse? "How dare they make something that goes bang when you drop it! Scooter should still be alive!" ... The other guy at the bar would have said something like "You're a fucking idiot" and faced the other direction. The first recorded death in mount Rainier national Park was a guy dropping his revolver and it shot him in 1897. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 2:07:24 PM EDT
[#42]
lol, I don’t care.
I love mine and I’d buy another one tomorrow. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 2:08:05 PM EDT
[#43]
It probably only goes bang when it lands muzzle down on a hard surface, so very unlikely to kill someone. That said, I still wouldn't carry something without a firing pin/striker block. I might be a too paranoid about it though. Hell, the extra protection you get from having a manual safety might outweigh the lack of having a 100% drop safe gun.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 2:13:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Same
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Posted: 5/25/2024 2:14:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So it's just as safe as an ar15......... The ar15 can go bang just dropping the bolt on a loaded round. Lol. its a real thing. the firing pin is free and moves under interia during loading process, meaning it can leave a light primer strike - chamber the same round over and over (like .mil when they make safe and make ready over and over) and eventually the metal fatigues and it will go bang. or if you have a commercial primer and it's especially thin/weak or you chamber it over and over or the moon/stars align etc. always point it in a safe direction when chambering a round. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 2:34:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The first recorded death in mount Rainier national Park was a guy dropping his revolver and it shot him in 1897. But did anyone get sued? |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 2:35:00 PM EDT
[#47]
Has staccato lost a customer?
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Posted: 5/25/2024 2:38:51 PM EDT
[#48]
Oh no! Anyway.....
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Posted: 5/25/2024 2:39:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't drop it? Get out of here with that sense-making crap, Pal. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 2:41:08 PM EDT
[#50]
I refuse to carry guns that aren't drop safe. Here's 2 of my favorites:
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