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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:14:51 PM EDT
[#1]
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Yes. Last year. NOLES. The disrespect was ridiculous. They dropped not only from #1, but down to #4 and put three 1-loss teams ahead of them.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has there been a number 1 that dropped from the top spot without a loss? Monk Yes. Last year. NOLES. The disrespect was ridiculous. They dropped not only from #1, but down to #4 and put three 1-loss teams ahead of them. LOL Sorry for laughing but the butthurt is part of the reason I love discussing football with fans. They were still given the chance to win it all. Now if an undefeated power 5 team is ever left out of the final 4 in favor of a team with 1 loss then............
It will be interesting to see how the playoff committee views Ohio St in a few weeks |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:15:54 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted: Michigan 
He specified losses, or else I would've said Michigan 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:18:07 PM EDT
[#3]
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As far back as wiki will let me easily see...these are the teams that have dropped from #1 AP without having losthttp://i.imgur.com/59ejASV.png?1 Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:29:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As far back as wiki will let me easily see...these are the teams that have dropped from #1 AP without having losthttp://i.imgur.com/59ejASV.png?1 Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:48:15 PM EDT
[#5]
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I don't think TT would score 4 TDs on UF TTs only losses have come against top 5 teams, but their only wins have come against teams with losing records Look how many points they scored on those Top 5 teams. I know y'all won't believe this, but TCU has been historically a defensive minded football team. Under Patterson, TCU has been the number one defensive team in the country multiple times and in the Top 5 a few more times. Obviously, that is a little harder to do playing in the Big 12. I think we can all agree on that, but last year they were still 8th. They play defense pretty well. Like Baylor is a mostly run oriented football team. It just doesn't seem like it because all of the highlights are 60 plus yard pass plays. I would like to see some of the games we are already discussing. TT and Florida would be interesting. I think TT will end up being "better" than some people consider them right now. They are probably the 4th best team in the Big 12 behind TCU, Baylor and OU. I just looked and Florida is playing defense comparable to Alabama at this point of the season. Less than 3 yards rushing per attempt and just over 10 yards passing per attempt. Under 3 rushing is pretty danged good for any team IMO, but I bet those numbers would change if they played Baylor and TCU. 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:50:21 PM EDT
[#6]
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It will be interesting to see how the playoff committee views Ohio St in a few weeks It really will be. If they stay true to what they claim are their "rules", Ohio St will not be number 1. It will be interesting if they keep them in the Top 4, that is for sure. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:51:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL Sorry for laughing but the butthurt is part of the reason I love discussing football with fans. They were still given the chance to win it all. Now if an undefeated power 5 team is ever left out of the final 4 in favor of a team with 1 loss then............ It will be interesting to see how the playoff committee views Ohio St in a few weeks Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Has there been a number 1 that dropped from the top spot without a loss? Monk Yes. Last year. NOLES. The disrespect was ridiculous. They dropped not only from #1, but down to #4 and put three 1-loss teams ahead of them. LOL Sorry for laughing but the butthurt is part of the reason I love discussing football with fans. They were still given the chance to win it all. Now if an undefeated power 5 team is ever left out of the final 4 in favor of a team with 1 loss then............ It will be interesting to see how the playoff committee views Ohio St in a few weeks If OSU loses they probably don't deserve to be in the discussion, they already have an advantage when it comes to prior rankings (don't have to fight their way up and get left at #5) but a lot of it depends on what the other teams do. If OSU loses to an undefeated Michigan State or 1-loss Michigan, due to the layout of the conference OSU doesn't even go to the championship game (Michigan, Michigan State and OSU are in the same subdivision). Of course things get weirder if OSU goes undefeated and drops a game to (lets pretend) Undefeated Northwestern...then there is a case for both IF the other conference champions are 3-loss teams but I don't see it happening if the committee only picks 4. An 8 team playoff would be kinder to that scenario. Either way NW will probably get blown out by someone like Illinois, OSU will probably only beat MSU and U of M if they drop a game to the mighty Terrapins or something like that. It is funny how far OSU has come from the Tressel years though, guys were happy with wins no matter that score in most cases. Now the offense scores 34 points, with 517 yards of offense (274 rushing yards by Elliott) and Jones was 18-27 (66.7%) for 245 yards 1 TD, 1 INT. I think its all play-calling and I hope it gets corrected. I'm not sure how you go 2-14 on third downs when your running back is averaging 11.9 yards per carry...that +3 turnovers (none for indiana)...yikes. The consistency is what is just not there. If anything we were shocked that the defense didn't play like they have been and everyone keeps waiting for that 70 point breakout game. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:54:15 PM EDT
[#8]
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Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As far back as wiki will let me easily see...these are the teams that have dropped from #1 AP without having losthttp://i.imgur.com/59ejASV.png?1 Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. It does, but it shouldn't and according to the Playoff selection rules, past performance should have no bearing. That said, I thought FSU deserved to be in the playoff last year. Even at the expense of TCU/Baylor. Undefeated national champ with the reigning Heisman winner taking the snaps. How do you not let that team in? |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:56:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It really will be. If they stay true to what they claim are their "rules", Ohio St will not be number 1. It will be interesting if they keep them in the Top 4, that is for sure. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It will be interesting to see how the playoff committee views Ohio St in a few weeks It really will be. If they stay true to what they claim are their "rules", Ohio St will not be number 1. It will be interesting if they keep them in the Top 4, that is for sure. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:57:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It does, but it shouldn't and according to the Playoff selection rules, past performance should have no bearing. That said, I thought FSU deserved to be in the playoff last year. Even at the expense of TCU/Baylor. Undefeated national champ with the reigning Heisman winner taking the snaps. How do you not let that team in? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: As far back as wiki will let me easily see...these are the teams that have dropped from #1 AP without having losthttp://i.imgur.com/59ejASV.png?1 Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. It does, but it shouldn't and according to the Playoff selection rules, past performance should have no bearing. That said, I thought FSU deserved to be in the playoff last year. Even at the expense of TCU/Baylor. Undefeated national champ with the reigning Heisman winner taking the snaps. How do you not let that team in? |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:05:50 PM EDT
[#11]
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Of course things get weirder if OSU goes undefeated and drops a game to (lets pretend) Undefeated Northwestern...then there is a case for both IF the other conference champions are 3-loss teams but I don't see it happening if the committee only picks 4. An 8 team playoff would be kinder to that scenario. Either way NW will probably get blown out by someone like Illinois, OSU will probably only beat MSU and U of M if they drop a game to the mighty Terrapins or something like that. <snip.> I think its all play-calling and I hope it gets corrected. I'm not sure how you go 2-14 on third downs when your running back is averaging 11.9 yards per carry...that +3 turnovers (none for indiana)...yikes. The consistency is what is just not there. If anything we were shocked that the defense didn't play like they have been and everyone keeps waiting for that 70 point breakout game. I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. The second part. I came in last night from a party and caught the last bit of some talking head discussing this. He felt a lot of this was on Meyer for trying to play multiple QBs and Jones will improve when he gets all of the practice snaps as the 1, instead of splitting the practice snaps with the 1s between two players. That made sense but I only caught a bit of it and I don't even know for sure that is what was happening in practice. Maybe one of the OSU guys can tell us if that was happening. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:08:29 PM EDT
[#12]
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It's scary how last season the best team in the country was one B12 conference championship game away from playing in December. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As far back as wiki will let me easily see...these are the teams that have dropped from #1 AP without having losthttp://i.imgur.com/59ejASV.png?1 Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. It does, but it shouldn't and according to the Playoff selection rules, past performance should have no bearing. That said, I thought FSU deserved to be in the playoff last year. Even at the expense of TCU/Baylor. Undefeated national champ with the reigning Heisman winner taking the snaps. How do you not let that team in? Who would not have paid to see TCU and OSU play another game? 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:18:49 PM EDT
[#13]
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Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As far back as wiki will let me easily see...these are the teams that have dropped from #1 AP without having losthttp://i.imgur.com/59ejASV.png?1 Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. No it doesn't. The rankings are for this year's team, not last year's team. The 2014 rankings are already finished. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:19:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. The second part. I came in last night from a party and caught the last bit of some talking head discussing this. He felt a lot of this was on Meyer for trying to play multiple QBs and Jones will improve when he gets all of the practice snaps as the 1, instead of splitting the practice snaps with the 1s between two players. That made sense but I only caught a bit of it and I don't even know for sure that is what was happening in practice. Maybe one of the OSU guys can tell us if that was happening. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Of course things get weirder if OSU goes undefeated and drops a game to (lets pretend) Undefeated Northwestern...then there is a case for both IF the other conference champions are 3-loss teams but I don't see it happening if the committee only picks 4. An 8 team playoff would be kinder to that scenario. Either way NW will probably get blown out by someone like Illinois, OSU will probably only beat MSU and U of M if they drop a game to the mighty Terrapins or something like that. <snip.> I think its all play-calling and I hope it gets corrected. I'm not sure how you go 2-14 on third downs when your running back is averaging 11.9 yards per carry...that +3 turnovers (none for indiana)...yikes. The consistency is what is just not there. If anything we were shocked that the defense didn't play like they have been and everyone keeps waiting for that 70 point breakout game. I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. The second part. I came in last night from a party and caught the last bit of some talking head discussing this. He felt a lot of this was on Meyer for trying to play multiple QBs and Jones will improve when he gets all of the practice snaps as the 1, instead of splitting the practice snaps with the 1s between two players. That made sense but I only caught a bit of it and I don't even know for sure that is what was happening in practice. Maybe one of the OSU guys can tell us if that was happening. Nothing bad about the defense though. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:31:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed on all fronts, but we do tend to play down to the competition. The first half score against E. Michigan was expected. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No way we (LSU) are the 5th ranked team, after having trouble with Syracuse and Eastern Michigan. We still need to develop a passing game. LC Agreed on all fronts, but we do tend to play down to the competition. The first half score against E. Michigan was expected. All I know is that LSU will get crushed by Alabama. It will be a repeat of the 2012 BCS championship game. Alabama can defend the run and LSU has no other weapons. Game over. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:32:34 PM EDT
[#16]
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LOL Sorry for laughing but the butthurt is part of the reason I love discussing football with fans. They were still given the chance to win it all. Now if an undefeated power 5 team is ever left out of the final 4 in favor of a team with 1 loss then............
It will be interesting to see how the playoff committee views Ohio St in a few weeks AFTER MICHIGAN TAPS THAT ASS!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Has there been a number 1 that dropped from the top spot without a loss? Monk Yes. Last year. NOLES. The disrespect was ridiculous. They dropped not only from #1, but down to #4 and put three 1-loss teams ahead of them. LOL Sorry for laughing but the butthurt is part of the reason I love discussing football with fans. They were still given the chance to win it all. Now if an undefeated power 5 team is ever left out of the final 4 in favor of a team with 1 loss then............
It will be interesting to see how the playoff committee views Ohio St in a few weeks AFTER MICHIGAN TAPS THAT ASS!! FIFY! 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:52:18 PM EDT
[#17]
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It does, but it shouldn't and according to the Playoff selection rules, past performance should have no bearing. That said, I thought FSU deserved to be in the playoff last year. Even at the expense of TCU/Baylor. Undefeated national champ with the reigning Heisman winner taking the snaps. How do you not let that team in? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As far back as wiki will let me easily see...these are the teams that have dropped from #1 AP without having losthttp://i.imgur.com/59ejASV.png?1 Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. It does, but it shouldn't and according to the Playoff selection rules, past performance should have no bearing. That said, I thought FSU deserved to be in the playoff last year. Even at the expense of TCU/Baylor. Undefeated national champ with the reigning Heisman winner taking the snaps. How do you not let that team in? You couldn't remove FSU from the playoffs last year. There would have been blood in the streets. They deserved some respect. I don't think the playoff committee is going to struggle with removing a team from the #1 spot as much as the AP pollsters though. The AP can come off somewhat as a popularity contest. You cant tell me that some of those sportswriters aren't partial. The playoff committee already proved they are willing to make hard controversial decisions. It worked out for them last year. If Ohio St had lost in the 1st round though it would have been interesting and I'm pretty sure Patterson would have went off hard and rightly so. Hell he had a right to do so anyway. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:01:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's scary how last season the best team in the country was one B12 conference championship game away from playing in December. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As far back as wiki will let me easily see...these are the teams that have dropped from #1 AP without having losthttp://i.imgur.com/59ejASV.png?1 Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. It does, but it shouldn't and according to the Playoff selection rules, past performance should have no bearing. That said, I thought FSU deserved to be in the playoff last year. Even at the expense of TCU/Baylor. Undefeated national champ with the reigning Heisman winner taking the snaps. How do you not let that team in? Screw the Big12 for not having a championship game. Sitting at home watching while others put themselves in jeapordy in conference championship games is bullshit. And then coming out and saying they made their mistake by declaring co-champions and they will "fix" that this year. So while everyone else plays an extra game they will just host a press conference if necessary? LOL.....fuck you. I know they need 12 teams to host a conference champinship but it's still bullshit. I hope they get left out again. And this is coming from someone who thinks TCU deserved to be in the final 4 last year. This shit is making me Bi-polar.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:14:38 PM EDT
[#19]
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FIFY!
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Has there been a number 1 that dropped from the top spot without a loss? Monk Yes. Last year. NOLES. The disrespect was ridiculous. They dropped not only from #1, but down to #4 and put three 1-loss teams ahead of them. LOL Sorry for laughing but the butthurt is part of the reason I love discussing football with fans. They were still given the chance to win it all. Now if an undefeated power 5 team is ever left out of the final 4 in favor of a team with 1 loss then............
It will be interesting to see how the playoff committee views Ohio St in a few weeks AFTER MICHIGAN TAPS THAT ASS!! FIFY!
I actually think Michigan can beat them. Michigan is playing some great defense. Offense wins games. Defense wins championships. That games a long way off though. The Michigan / Michigan St game in a few weeks will be interesting. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:15:43 PM EDT
[#20]
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FIFY!
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Has there been a number 1 that dropped from the top spot without a loss? Monk Yes. Last year. NOLES. The disrespect was ridiculous. They dropped not only from #1, but down to #4 and put three 1-loss teams ahead of them. LOL Sorry for laughing but the butthurt is part of the reason I love discussing football with fans. They were still given the chance to win it all. Now if an undefeated power 5 team is ever left out of the final 4 in favor of a team with 1 loss then............
It will be interesting to see how the playoff committee views Ohio St in a few weeks AFTER MICHIGAN TAPS THAT ASS!! FIFY!
I actually think Michigan can beat them. Michigan is playing some great defense. Offense wins games. Defense wins championships. That games a long way off though. The Michigan / Michigan St game in a few weeks will be interesting. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:24:29 PM EDT
[#21]
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I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:29:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Georgia @ Tennessee: UGA -2
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:38:17 PM EDT
[#23]
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No it doesn't. The rankings are for this year's team, not last year's team. The 2014 rankings are already finished. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As far back as wiki will let me easily see...these are the teams that have dropped from #1 AP without having losthttp://i.imgur.com/59ejASV.png?1 Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. No it doesn't. The rankings are for this year's team, not last year's team. The 2014 rankings are already finished. You really believe that all those (or at least some) of the sportswriters and broadcasters that vote in the AP poll don't consider that? Sure they do. Is it right? No, it really isn't. You're right that it should be based on the current years team. But it's still a factor and in the back of everyone's mind. You hear it all the time. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:42:50 PM EDT
[#24]
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I actually think Michigan can beat them. Michigan is playing some great defense. Offense wins games. Defense wins championships. That games a long way off though. The Michigan / Michigan St game in a few weeks will be interesting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has there been a number 1 that dropped from the top spot without a loss? Monk Yes. Last year. NOLES. The disrespect was ridiculous. They dropped not only from #1, but down to #4 and put three 1-loss teams ahead of them. LOL Sorry for laughing but the butthurt is part of the reason I love discussing football with fans. They were still given the chance to win it all. Now if an undefeated power 5 team is ever left out of the final 4 in favor of a team with 1 loss then............
It will be interesting to see how the playoff committee views Ohio St in a few weeks AFTER MICHIGAN TAPS THAT ASS!! FIFY!
I actually think Michigan can beat them. Michigan is playing some great defense. Offense wins games. Defense wins championships. That games a long way off though. The Michigan / Michigan St game in a few weeks will be interesting. Michigan has to get past Northwestern first this weekend. should be an excellent matchup. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:43:25 PM EDT
[#25]
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Georgia @ Tennessee: UGA -2
Wow I like that line. I bet its -7 by kickoff. Georgia is going to have blood in their eyes and Tennessee........well they're probabaly going to think even if they get ahead or play it close in the 1st half that they'll only end up blowing it anyway. Has to be getting in their heads by now. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:47:16 PM EDT
[#26]
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Michigan has to get past Northwestern first this weekend. should be an excellent matchup. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes. Last year. NOLES. The disrespect was ridiculous. They dropped not only from #1, but down to #4 and put three 1-loss teams ahead of them. LOL Sorry for laughing but the butthurt is part of the reason I love discussing football with fans. They were still given the chance to win it all. Now if an undefeated power 5 team is ever left out of the final 4 in favor of a team with 1 loss then............
It will be interesting to see how the playoff committee views Ohio St in a few weeks AFTER MICHIGAN TAPS THAT ASS!! FIFY!
I actually think Michigan can beat them. Michigan is playing some great defense. Offense wins games. Defense wins championships. That games a long way off though. The Michigan / Michigan St game in a few weeks will be interesting. Michigan has to get past Northwestern first this weekend. should be an excellent matchup. 2 good defenses. Be interesting to see where the over / under opens. I'm going to guess 42 |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:49:32 PM EDT
[#27]
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Georgia @ Tennessee: UGA -2
Who knows how this game will go. Tennessee is spiraling right now, but the Georgia loss yesterday has been equally demoralizing. Question is, who does Richt start at QB? Neyland Stadium isn't exactly the place you want to try and build the confidence of a couple of shell-shocked players. Benefit for Georgia is Tennessee has had some trouble with the run, but I imagine they will stack the line and make Georgia throw the ball. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:53:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. krpind's take: NW *is* the better team at that point because they won *that game* and it's all that matters. End of story. WDEagle's take: Ohio State was better over the length of the season and the conference championship game is blip. For reasons like this, you will never get people to agree; their definition of "better" varies. The two extremes of that spectrum are: 1) Regular season followed by a lengthy playoff where every game counts. This places heavy emphasis on the end of the season. 2) Every team plays every other team and the champion is the one with the best W-L record at the end of the season. The "best" is the team that has produced over the entire season. Both are valid measurements for determining the "best" team. In German soccer (which is what I grew up with), the professional league consists of 18 teams. They play a double round-robin, home and away, and the champion is the team with the most points at the end of the season. My take: You SHOULD win your conference championship game if you want to go to the dance. It may be tough, but being "better" means that you win that game too. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:56:51 PM EDT
[#29]
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To be fair, that was the playoff committee, the AP poll had FSU #2 going into playoffs. (FSU dropped to Miss. St. and Alabama a different points in the season) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has there been a number 1 that dropped from the top spot without a loss? Monk Yes. Last year. NOLES. The disrespect was ridiculous. They dropped not only from #1, but down to #4 and put three 1-loss teams ahead of them. To be fair, that was the playoff committee, the AP poll had FSU #2 going into playoffs. (FSU dropped to Miss. St. and Alabama a different points in the season) No, the AP had them even lower at one point......week 11 or 12, I can't remember. Maybe earlier. It wasn't until Miss St lost that the ship started to right. Unfortunately, this year we don't stand as good a chance at going undefeated so the continued dropping will hurt FSU this year. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:04:18 PM EDT
[#30]
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krpind's take: NW *is* the better team at that point because they won *that game* and it's all that matters. End of story. WDEagle's take: Ohio State was better over the length of the season and the conference championship game is blip. For reasons like this, you will never get people to agree; their definition of "better" varies. The two extremes of that spectrum are: 1) Regular season followed by a lengthy playoff where every game counts. This places heavy emphasis on the end of the season. 2) Every team plays every other team and the champion is the one with the best W-L record at the end of the season. The "best" is the team that has produced over the entire season. Both are valid measurements for determining the "best" team. In German soccer (which is what I grew up with), the professional league consists of 18 teams. They play a double round-robin, home and away, and the champion is the team with the most points at the end of the season. My take: You SHOULD win your conference championship game if you want to go to the dance. It may be tough, but being "better" means that you win that game too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. krpind's take: NW *is* the better team at that point because they won *that game* and it's all that matters. End of story. WDEagle's take: Ohio State was better over the length of the season and the conference championship game is blip. For reasons like this, you will never get people to agree; their definition of "better" varies. The two extremes of that spectrum are: 1) Regular season followed by a lengthy playoff where every game counts. This places heavy emphasis on the end of the season. 2) Every team plays every other team and the champion is the one with the best W-L record at the end of the season. The "best" is the team that has produced over the entire season. Both are valid measurements for determining the "best" team. In German soccer (which is what I grew up with), the professional league consists of 18 teams. They play a double round-robin, home and away, and the champion is the team with the most points at the end of the season. My take: You SHOULD win your conference championship game if you want to go to the dance. It may be tough, but being "better" means that you win that game too. I agree that it's hard to come to an agreement.....which is why an 8 team playoff MUST happen. It will solve 87% of these issues. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:05:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Screw the Big12 for not having a championship game. Sitting at home watching while others put themselves in jeapordy in conference championship games is bullshit. And then coming out and saying they made their mistake by declaring co-champions and they will "fix" that this year. So while everyone else plays an extra game they will just host a press conference if necessary? LOL.....fuck you. I know they need 12 teams to host a conference champinship but it's still bullshit. I hope they get left out again. And this is coming from someone who thinks TCU deserved to be in the final 4 last year. This shit is making me Bi-polar. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As far back as wiki will let me easily see...these are the teams that have dropped from #1 AP without having losthttp://i.imgur.com/59ejASV.png?1 Where they the defending national champions though? That makes a big difference. It does, but it shouldn't and according to the Playoff selection rules, past performance should have no bearing. That said, I thought FSU deserved to be in the playoff last year. Even at the expense of TCU/Baylor. Undefeated national champ with the reigning Heisman winner taking the snaps. How do you not let that team in? Screw the Big12 for not having a championship game. Sitting at home watching while others put themselves in jeapordy in conference championship games is bullshit. And then coming out and saying they made their mistake by declaring co-champions and they will "fix" that this year. So while everyone else plays an extra game they will just host a press conference if necessary? LOL.....fuck you. I know they need 12 teams to host a conference champinship but it's still bullshit. I hope they get left out again. And this is coming from someone who thinks TCU deserved to be in the final 4 last year. This shit is making me Bi-polar. The committee made it clear that they were taking the entire body of work into consideration (vs what you did last game/recency bias). When Baylor finally got their game against a highlyish ranked K State it moved them past TCU who won their game with K State much earlier in the year. It was hilarious to watch that disaster unfold...the B12 looked like they were trying to outsmart the committee by naming both teams champions. This may actually have worked against a computer programmed to take that into account. That alone may have been enough to ruin Baylor's chances to get into the playoff. I honestly think the B12 honchos looked at the committee rankings, new Baylor was behind TCU and in their effort to make sure they didn't just switch places, fucked Baylor (they were switching places regardless as long as Baylor beat K State). Maybe the committee looks at no conference game and dings them as hard as "co champions" but the B12 stepped on their dick last year. If either team should have been included in the playoff it should have been Baylor. Of course, that B12 argument was made moot after the 2nd highest ranked B1G team sank their battleship so they now pretend like they were all about TCU getting into the playoff (and leave the Baylor part out). Of course I'd prefer an 8 team with both of those teams in there but it is what it is. IMO even given all of the co-champion garbage and lack of a championship game, if OSU only beats Wisconsin by 20 or 30 points the B12 gets a team in the playoff. I know we're all told it's because of the brand---and it doesn't hurt that OSU can actually fill the Superdome and Jerry's world and will have more than 12 people watching the game.....B U T, if people remember correctly OSU was the underdog (3 pt IIRC) to the Melvin Gordon Badgers. It was the biggest destruction of the pt spread in NCAAF history (maybe an indicator that a team was vastly underrated).
Last year they fucked themselves, after the off-season whining I kind of want to see them get fucked for real this time. But, I'd rather watch good football, I suppose. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:22:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. Last year. NOLES. The disrespect was ridiculous. They dropped not only from #1, but down to #4 and put three 1-loss teams ahead of them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Has there been a number 1 that dropped from the top spot without a loss? Monk Yes. Last year. NOLES. The disrespect was ridiculous. They dropped not only from #1, but down to #4 and put three 1-loss teams ahead of them. And they proved on the field that they didn't get dropped _quite_ far enough. 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:35:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A case can be made for Utah...TCU? They needed a last second miracle play to beat Texas Tech... Florida, A&M, etc all have a better case than TCU. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: LOL at OSU ranked #1. Gimme a fucking break. Right? Who is number 1? Where do you put Ohio state? A case can be made for Utah...TCU? They needed a last second miracle play to beat Texas Tech... Florida, A&M, etc all have a better case than TCU. Yeah, a very, very weak case. They beat a Michigan team that was breaking in a new QB in SLC but needed a pick-six in the fourth quarter to do it. If Utah played them now at Michigan you'd get a vastly different result. They stomped an overrated Oregon team that probably won't finish in the top half of the PAC-12 North. The same Oregon team whose defense is giving up around 37 points per game, including 42 to FCS Eastern Washington. Their other two wins (Utah State, @Fresno State) are pretty meh. Utah is a good team but they are not top 5 material, and they will get exposed this weekend. The last time Game Day came to SLC in 2010 Utah got reamed by TCU 47-7 (it was glorious to behold  ). |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:43:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were at least smart enough to Schedule Baylor/TCU for the last game of the season. Last game for TCU, not Baylor. Baylor's last game is against Texas the week that every other conference is having a championship game. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:59:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. That doesn't even make sense if the goal is to find the best team. Why does the system that works for every other level and every other major US sport for that matter, not work for college football? Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:02:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
krpind's take: NW *is* the better team at that point because they won *that game* and it's all that matters. End of story. WDEagle's take: Ohio State was better over the length of the season and the conference championship game is blip. For reasons like this, you will never get people to agree; their definition of "better" varies. The two extremes of that spectrum are: 1) Regular season followed by a lengthy playoff where every game counts. This places heavy emphasis on the end of the season. 2) Every team plays every other team and the champion is the one with the best W-L record at the end of the season. The "best" is the team that has produced over the entire season. Both are valid measurements for determining the "best" team. In German soccer (which is what I grew up with), the professional league consists of 18 teams. They play a double round-robin, home and away, and the champion is the team with the most points at the end of the season. My take: You SHOULD win your conference championship game if you want to go to the dance. It may be tough, but being "better" means that you win that game too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. krpind's take: NW *is* the better team at that point because they won *that game* and it's all that matters. End of story. WDEagle's take: Ohio State was better over the length of the season and the conference championship game is blip. For reasons like this, you will never get people to agree; their definition of "better" varies. The two extremes of that spectrum are: 1) Regular season followed by a lengthy playoff where every game counts. This places heavy emphasis on the end of the season. 2) Every team plays every other team and the champion is the one with the best W-L record at the end of the season. The "best" is the team that has produced over the entire season. Both are valid measurements for determining the "best" team. In German soccer (which is what I grew up with), the professional league consists of 18 teams. They play a double round-robin, home and away, and the champion is the team with the most points at the end of the season. My take: You SHOULD win your conference championship game if you want to go to the dance. It may be tough, but being "better" means that you win that game too. A conference championship is a part of every playoff in every sport. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:06:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryI agree that it's hard to come to an agreement.....which is why an 8 team playoff MUST happen. It will solve 87% of these issues. The undefeated P5s. ACC Florida State Clemson BIG12 Oklahoma Oklahoma State TCU Baylor BIG10 Michigan State Ohio State Iowa Northwestern SEC Florida Texas A&M LSU PAC12 Cal Utah Upcoming games between undefeated teams: October 10: Cal @ Utah October 17: Florida @ LSU Iowa @ Northwestern November 7: TCU @ Oklahoma State Florida State @ Clemson November 14: Oklahoma @ Baylor November 21: Michigan State @ Ohio State TCU @ Oklahoma Baylor @ Oklahoma State November 27: Baylor @ TCU November 28: Texas A&M @ LSU Oklahoma @ Oklahoma State |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:10:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That doesn't even make sense if the goal is to find the best team. Why does the system that works for every other level and every other major US sport for that matter, not work for college football? Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. That doesn't even make sense if the goal is to find the best team. Why does the system that works for every other level and every other major US sport for that matter, not work for college football? Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't. Agreed on the bold part (it's simply my opinion) & " Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't" either. If every win was GUARANTEED to go to the best team every time, then I would agree with you. If NW & OSU were definately the 1st and 2nd best team in the Nation, why kick OSU out for losing in the Conference Championship Game? Are you saying that only the conference/divisions Champions in Pro football and Baseball make the playoffs? Edit: Zhukov captured both positions fairly well. I'm out. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:12:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look how many points they scored on those Top 5 teams. I know y'all won't believe this, but TCU has been historically a defensive minded football team. Under Patterson, TCU has been the number one defensive team in the country multiple times and in the Top 5 a few more times. Obviously, that is a little harder to do playing in the Big 12. I think we can all agree on that, but last year they were still 8th. They play defense pretty well. Like Baylor is a mostly run oriented football team. It just doesn't seem like it because all of the highlights are 60 plus yard pass plays. I would like to see some of the games we are already discussing. TT and Florida would be interesting. I think TT will end up being "better" than some people consider them right now. They are probably the 4th best team in the Big 12 behind TCU, Baylor and OU. I just looked and Florida is playing defense comparable to Alabama at this point of the season. Less than 3 yards rushing per attempt and just over 10 yards passing per attempt. Under 3 rushing is pretty danged good for any team IMO, but I bet those numbers would change if they played Baylor and TCU. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't think TT would score 4 TDs on UF TTs only losses have come against top 5 teams, but their only wins have come against teams with losing records Look how many points they scored on those Top 5 teams. I know y'all won't believe this, but TCU has been historically a defensive minded football team. Under Patterson, TCU has been the number one defensive team in the country multiple times and in the Top 5 a few more times. Obviously, that is a little harder to do playing in the Big 12. I think we can all agree on that, but last year they were still 8th. They play defense pretty well. Like Baylor is a mostly run oriented football team. It just doesn't seem like it because all of the highlights are 60 plus yard pass plays. I would like to see some of the games we are already discussing. TT and Florida would be interesting. I think TT will end up being "better" than some people consider them right now. They are probably the 4th best team in the Big 12 behind TCU, Baylor and OU. I just looked and Florida is playing defense comparable to Alabama at this point of the season. Less than 3 yards rushing per attempt and just over 10 yards passing per attempt. Under 3 rushing is pretty danged good for any team IMO, but I bet those numbers would change if they played Baylor and TCU. Baylor and TCU currently have the 82nd and 72nd rated defenses in the nation. (Total defense) I do think a UF/TT matchup would be interesting. But the last time a highly-regarded, record setting Big 12 offense faced UF, the Gators came away with a national championship, despite being told that they'd be lucky to hold the Sooners under 45 points. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:12:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That doesn't even make sense if the goal is to find the best team. Why does the system that works for every other level and every other major US sport for that matter, not work for college football? Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. That doesn't even make sense if the goal is to find the best team. Why does the system that works for every other level and every other major US sport for that matter, not work for college football? Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't. Conference championships also can't be considered playoff games until the SEC is split up and we only have 4 conferences. Of course I'm bad at mathing. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:16:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Baylor and TCU currently have the 82nd and 72nd rated defenses in the nation. (Total defense) <snip> Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't think TT would score 4 TDs on UF TTs only losses have come against top 5 teams, but their only wins have come against teams with losing records Look how many points they scored on those Top 5 teams. I know y'all won't believe this, but TCU has been historically a defensive minded football team. Under Patterson, TCU has been the number one defensive team in the country multiple times and in the Top 5 a few more times. Obviously, that is a little harder to do playing in the Big 12. I think we can all agree on that, but last year they were still 8th. They play defense pretty well. Like Baylor is a mostly run oriented football team. It just doesn't seem like it because all of the highlights are 60 plus yard pass plays. I would like to see some of the games we are already discussing. TT and Florida would be interesting. I think TT will end up being "better" than some people consider them right now. They are probably the 4th best team in the Big 12 behind TCU, Baylor and OU. I just looked and Florida is playing defense comparable to Alabama at this point of the season. Less than 3 yards rushing per attempt and just over 10 yards passing per attempt. Under 3 rushing is pretty danged good for any team IMO, but I bet those numbers would change if they played Baylor and TCU. Baylor and TCU currently have the 82nd and 72nd rated defenses in the nation. (Total defense) <snip> While I don't think their defenses are "good" when the offense scores in 87 seconds, the defense spends .... 87 minutes on the field during that game with little time to rest and gets run ragged by the other team's offense regardless of tempo. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:17:06 PM EDT
[#42]
It is shocking to me how many of y'all only look at margin of victory in deciding who is good vs who is bad.
It is an almost worthless measure most of the time. Unless a team is barely squeaking by every week, you shouldn't consider an occasion close game as a sign of weakness. That is just a fact. I honestly think y'all think for a team to be considered even "good" they have to not only win but dominate not only the score but every single play in every single game. Teams are going to play against great players who make great plays over the course of a game occasionally. It is a team sport and the game lasts for 4 full quarters. The team at the end of the game wins or loses. All great teams occasionally play close ball games. What makes them great is winning those close games. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:21:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed on the bold part (it's simply my opinion) & " Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't" either. If every win was GUARANTEED to go to the best team every time, then I would agree with you. If NW & OSU were definately the 1st and 2nd best team in the Nation, why kick OSU out for losing in the Conference Championship Game? Are you saying that only the conference/divisions Champions in Pro football and Baseball make the playoffs? Edit: Zhukov captured both positions fairly well. I'm out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. That doesn't even make sense if the goal is to find the best team. Why does the system that works for every other level and every other major US sport for that matter, not work for college football? Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't. Agreed on the bold part (it's simply my opinion) & " Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't" either. If every win was GUARANTEED to go to the best team every time, then I would agree with you. If NW & OSU were definately the 1st and 2nd best team in the Nation, why kick OSU out for losing in the Conference Championship Game? Are you saying that only the conference/divisions Champions in Pro football and Baseball make the playoffs? Edit: Zhukov captured both positions fairly well. I'm out. That is the thing. It is a fact. The best team wins. That is why they play the game. Who was the best team when the undefeated Patriots got beat by the Giants in the SuperBowl? Does anyone actually think it was the Patriots. That is the perfect illustration of the issue. Perception isn't reality. The scoreboard is a reality. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:24:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed on the bold part (it's simply my opinion) & " Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't" either. If every win was GUARANTEED to go to the best team every time, then I would agree with you. If NW & OSU were definately the 1st and 2nd best team in the Nation, why kick OSU out for losing in the Conference Championship Game? Are you saying that only the conference/divisions Champions in Pro football and Baseball make the playoffs? Edit: Zhukov captured both positions fairly well. I'm out. That's a pretty goofy argument to make. If you can pre-ordain who the better team is ahead of time, why even play the game? |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:29:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a pretty goofy argument to make. If you can pre-ordain who the better team is ahead of time, why even play the game? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Agreed on the bold part (it's simply my opinion) & " Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't" either. If every win was GUARANTEED to go to the best team every time, then I would agree with you. If NW & OSU were definately the 1st and 2nd best team in the Nation, why kick OSU out for losing in the Conference Championship Game? Are you saying that only the conference/divisions Champions in Pro football and Baseball make the playoffs? Edit: Zhukov captured both positions fairly well. I'm out. That's a pretty goofy argument to make. If you can pre-ordain who the better team is ahead of time, why even play the game? Was Va Tech a better team last year than Ohio State? On one Saturday, yes they were. However, most people would agree that Ohio State was a better team than Va Tech, considering the entire season. Also, I'm not "pre-ordaining" anything. I'm just saying that the best team does not always win the game. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:34:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is shocking to me how many of y'all only look at margin of victory in deciding who is good vs who is bad. Forget about margin of victory... Just a few minutes ago, you cited TT's points scored in two *losses* as a barometer of their strength. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:36:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryAbout fucking time. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:38:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have they ever been in the Top 25 before? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have they ever been in the Top 25 before? Yes. 2001. The MAC was hot as fuck in 2003. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:38:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was Va Tech a better team last year than Ohio State? On one Saturday, yes they were. However, most people would agree that Ohio State was a better team than Va Tech, considering the entire season. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Agreed on the bold part (it's simply my opinion) & " Just because you don't think it is seems right, doesn't mean it isn't" either. If every win was GUARANTEED to go to the best team every time, then I would agree with you. If NW & OSU were definately the 1st and 2nd best team in the Nation, why kick OSU out for losing in the Conference Championship Game? Are you saying that only the conference/divisions Champions in Pro football and Baseball make the playoffs? Edit: Zhukov captured both positions fairly well. I'm out. That's a pretty goofy argument to make. If you can pre-ordain who the better team is ahead of time, why even play the game? Was Va Tech a better team last year than Ohio State? On one Saturday, yes they were. However, most people would agree that Ohio State was a better team than Va Tech, considering the entire season. Which is why if I'm made the grand pooba of NCAAF I will take the 128 FBS teams and make 8 conferences. Each conference (16 teams) will have two divisions. Each division will play every team in their division with 4 OOC games. Then Conference Championship games will be played and winners advance to the 8 team playoff. No rankings, AP or coaches or FPI or any such bullshit. Simply win. That's it. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:44:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't understand why people think that? If an undefeated NW beats an undefeated OSU in the Conference Championship game, that should be the first elimination of any playoff system. I simply don't agree with you on this one. Say NW & OSU proved to be the cream of the crop this year and both go into the conference championship undefeated. NW wins in a close one and OSu is eliminated even though they are better than another one loss GA/bama/FSU/Clemson? The conference championships are just that ... ie not part of the playoff. The four best teams should be in the playoffs. An 8 team playoff would probably make this a mute point. And who would declare that a 1 loss OSU is better than those teams? An 8 team playoff ain't gonna happen any time soon. |
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