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Posted: 9/25/2009 4:47:46 PM EDT
[#1]
I think I'm going to need more than a hand written note...
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Posted: 9/25/2009 4:49:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.
Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold." Exception: See 11th hour mark up before final vote: remove period in 7203 sec. x line xx: add: except for illegal aliens or people without documentation. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 4:53:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
this, and the state mandating you have car insurance, must be real nice for the insurance companies.....this qualify as protectionism ya think? It is all about state owning you and your kids body. The money for big business is a bonus to get there support. The state will be able to dictate under penalty of armed goones for the good of the many what you do and what put into your body. By hook or crook this will pass just to good for big brother to not pass. Add the patriot act with todays tech and you have a dictators wet dream...complete control of the slave class by the elite. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 5:11:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, the Health Care stuff is going to be handled/enforced by the IRS? Best to have the illegal, backwards, fucked up shit be handled by the most illegal unconstitutional government agency there is. In Before Dave_A quotes Romans 13, and tells us to support the elected representatives. 
Romans Chapter 13, verses 1 through 7, from the Authorized King James text: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor." I prefer Exodus 22:18 myself (original meaning): "Suffer not an oathbreaker to live." Looks like we've got 534 of them in Congress alone. Hmmm, we're gonna need more rope... |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 5:12:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
As usual, BHO's pants are on fire... (I am somewhat enjoying being off of active duty, and being legally entitled to call the POTUS a liar, rather than prohibited from doing so) All I have to do is remove the "T" and the "U". 
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Posted: 9/25/2009 5:16:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Uninsured Will Go to Jail for Year or pay $25,000 fine. Another term for tax to pay for the health care "reform."
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Posted: 9/25/2009 6:48:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I think I'm going to need more than a hand written note... Sen Ensign on the Sunday morning talk show circuit discussing this note would do it for me. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:07:53 PM EDT
[#8]
yeah, im not paying the fine or going to jail. period. and i'll post a picture of the fine if this ends up passing and i get a fine you heard it here first. 
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:12:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Does the Federal Government have the Constitutional authority to charge fees on being a citizen? Not income tax. I don't have to pay that if I don't work. This health care fee is due for everyone. What if I don't pay it for my kids? Will they go to jail as well? How does that work? A 16 year old is required to file taxes if they work, and can probably get busted for tax evasion (I don't know?). Can they get busted for not paying their healthcare fee? They have the authority, under the power to tax. However, it (a tax on everyone who does not buy health insurance) would be a direct tax, and subject to apportionment among the states (eg, they couldn't keep the $$$)... |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:13:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does the Federal Government have the Constitutional authority to charge fees on being a citizen? Not income tax. I don't have to pay that if I don't work. This health care fee is due for everyone. What if I don't pay it for my kids? Will they go to jail as well? How does that work? A 16 year old is required to file taxes if they work, and can probably get busted for tax evasion (I don't know?). Can they get busted for not paying their healthcare fee? They have the authority, under the power to tax. However, it (a tax on everyone who does not buy health insurance) would be a direct tax, and subject to apportionment among the states (eg, they couldn't keep the $$$)... can this be challenged by the supreme court? |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:14:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Uninsured Will Go to Jail for Year or pay $25,000 fine. Another term for tax to pay for the health care "reform." Pretty much... This is aimed right at people like me, who do not carry health insurance because they do not go to the doc... |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:14:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does the Federal Government have the Constitutional authority to charge fees on being a citizen? Not income tax. I don't have to pay that if I don't work. This health care fee is due for everyone. What if I don't pay it for my kids? Will they go to jail as well? How does that work? A 16 year old is required to file taxes if they work, and can probably get busted for tax evasion (I don't know?). Can they get busted for not paying their healthcare fee? They have the authority, under the power to tax. However, it (a tax on everyone who does not buy health insurance) would be a direct tax, and subject to apportionment among the states (eg, they couldn't keep the $$$)... can this be challenged by the supreme court? If they pass it, and do not apportion it, yes it can... |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:14:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
So, the Health Care stuff is going to be handled/enforced by the IRS? Yes, and since it's the IRS, any attempt to hide noncompliance could be upgraded to Felony (Non)Tax Evasion. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:18:15 PM EDT
[#14]
So does this mean its time we go dump something in Boston Harbor?
And if so what would we dump? Tylenol? Swine Flu vaccine? |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:20:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does the Federal Government have the Constitutional authority to charge fees on being a citizen? Not income tax. I don't have to pay that if I don't work. This health care fee is due for everyone. What if I don't pay it for my kids? Will they go to jail as well? How does that work? A 16 year old is required to file taxes if they work, and can probably get busted for tax evasion (I don't know?). Can they get busted for not paying their healthcare fee? They have the authority, under the power to tax. However, it (a tax on everyone who does not buy health insurance) would be a direct tax, and subject to apportionment among the states (eg, they couldn't keep the $$$)... can this be challenged by the supreme court? If they pass it, and do not apportion it, yes it can... what does apportion mean?
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:26:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
I think I'm going to need more than a hand written note... That's right, keep waiting and waiting. Everything is going so well.... |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:27:09 PM EDT
[#17]
If it passes (which is actually pretty unlikely), then I foresee an incredible amount of willful non-compliance.
I will not comply. CJ |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:27:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Good. No sense in beating around the bush. The quicker the water gets hot, the quicker it boils over.
damn! I was just about to hit the rack! is it really go time??? |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:28:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You must be new here.Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, the Health Care stuff is going to be handled/enforced by the IRS? Best to have the illegal, backwards, fucked up shit be handled by the most illegal unconstitutional government agency there is. There is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about the IRS in it's current form..... By way of the 16th Ammendment, the IRS is one of the most constitutional things the Feds do today - it's not a 'commerce clause' stretch, it's an enumerated power... WITH THAT SAID A $1900 'fee-tax' is a DIRECT tax that is NOT an income tax... So the 16th does not apply, and it would have to be apportioned to the states... not sure if serious...
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:31:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: I think I'm going to need more than a hand written note... That's right, keep waiting and waiting. Everything is going so well.... Unless a hand written note constitutes law? |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:35:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not sure which is appropriate.  or  or  or  try 
I will not be taxed on existing as an American. Fuck you, and fuck your Citizenry Tax. The real question is- What are you going to do about it? Obama's not worried about that animated icon. Probably not enough. The people of Massachusetts didn't revolt over their forced care and I doubt much of the rest of the nation will either. People will just take it because the majority will blindly follow instructions. For most, it will just be easier and cheaper to buy some shill of a medical plan than to fight back against a tax on being an American. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:36:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
So does this mean its time we go dump something in Boston Harbor? And if so what would we dump? Tylenol? Swine Flu vaccine? Bostonians are already placated to the forced health care system. They have had to purchase healthcare since 2006  .
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:39:43 PM EDT
[#23]
if the irs is involved watch them take the money right from out paychecks each week, we couldnt do anything about that
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:41:59 PM EDT
[#24]
I didn't realize it before but the rounds in that mag are greentips (or at least the first one is)
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:43:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
if the irs is involved watch them take the money right from out paychecks each week, we couldnt do anything about that couldn't or won't? i'm not advocating anything here (CoC#4), but a tax on tea once drove future Americans over the edge... |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:47:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think I'm going to need more than a hand written note... That's right, keep waiting and waiting. Everything is going so well.... Unless a hand written note constitutes law? The note doesn't constitute law, it merely cites current law on the penalties for not paying your income taxes. The fees in the Baucus bill are to be collected by the IRS when you file your income taxes each year. So, if you don't have insurance, the fee gets added to your taxes. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:49:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think I'm going to need more than a hand written note... That's right, keep waiting and waiting. Everything is going so well.... Unless a hand written note constitutes law? The note doesn't constitute law, it merely cites current law on the penalties for not paying your income taxes. The fees in the Baucus bill are to be collected by the IRS when you file your income taxes each year. So, if you don't have insurance, the fee gets added to your taxes. This is what I'm talking about when I say "more than a handwritten note". thank you.  |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:49:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
yeah, im not paying the fine or going to jail. period. and i'll post a picture of the fine if this ends up passing and i get a fine you heard it here first.
I'll one-up you. I'll post a scan of the certified letter and its postal receipt that I send to the President informing him of the cancellation of my insurance policy. Should this ever become law, of course. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:53:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Go ahead. Add the VAT tax too. Even with these, we are still doomed as the world decides to change reserve currencies and stop buying our unpayable debt (bond, bills, T-Notes). We have MANY taxes in our future, take it with a grin, if you can take it at all 
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:56:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does the Federal Government have the Constitutional authority to charge fees on being a citizen? Not income tax. I don't have to pay that if I don't work. This health care fee is due for everyone. What if I don't pay it for my kids? Will they go to jail as well? How does that work? A 16 year old is required to file taxes if they work, and can probably get busted for tax evasion (I don't know?). Can they get busted for not paying their healthcare fee? They have the authority, under the power to tax. However, it (a tax on everyone who does not buy health insurance) would be a direct tax, and subject to apportionment among the states (eg, they couldn't keep the $$$)... can this be challenged by the supreme court? If they pass it, and do not apportion it, yes it can... what does apportion mean? It means the money raised has to be split up among the states.... All 'direct' federal taxes (eg, taxes levied directly against an individual) must be apportioned, EXCEPT the income tax (because of the 16th Ammendment, the income tax is 'special')... |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:57:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: And who is this elite?Quoted: this, and the state mandating you have car insurance, must be real nice for the insurance companies.....this qualify as protectionism ya think? It is all about state owning you and your kids body. The money for big business is a bonus to get there support. The state will be able to dictate under penalty of armed goones for the good of the many what you do and what put into your body. By hook or crook this will pass just to good for big brother to not pass. Add the patriot act with todays tech and you have a dictators wet dream...complete control of the slave class by the elite. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 7:59:03 PM EDT
[#32]
This is to get money out of people who don't want and need health insurance.
What a scam. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:00:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
if the irs is involved watch them take the money right from out paychecks each week, we couldnt do anything about that couldn't or won't? i'm not advocating anything here (CoC#4), but a tax on tea once drove future Americans over the edge... couldnt. I highly doubt you can get rid of the taxes in your paycheck, I would take out state, fed, medicare or whatever I pay for. Were forced to pay those, and if they throw in gubmedical you will be forced to pay that, or only get a job that pays cash |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:00:25 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:01:22 PM EDT
[#35]
And who is this elite?
"They" are the ones that pay off your congressmen and senators, either directly or by proxy... |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:03:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Underground I go.....underground I go....Hi Ho the merrio underground I go!!
I will be damned if they are gonna make me get it! |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:08:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Bring it. 
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:10:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Sounds like a racket.
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:21:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does the Federal Government have the Constitutional authority to charge fees on being a citizen? Not income tax. I don't have to pay that if I don't work. This health care fee is due for everyone. What if I don't pay it for my kids? Will they go to jail as well? How does that work? A 16 year old is required to file taxes if they work, and can probably get busted for tax evasion (I don't know?). Can they get busted for not paying their healthcare fee? They have the authority, under the power to tax. However, it (a tax on everyone who does not buy health insurance) would be a direct tax, and subject to apportionment among the states (eg, they couldn't keep the $$$)... can this be challenged by the supreme court? If they pass it, and do not apportion it, yes it can... what does apportion mean?
It means the money raised has to be split up among the states.... All 'direct' federal taxes (eg, taxes levied directly against an individual) must be apportioned, EXCEPT the income tax (because of the 16th Ammendment, the income tax is 'special')... so how hard is it for them to apportion it? |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:22:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Sounds like a racket. "Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We *want* them broken. You'd better get it straight That it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against– then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with." - - Ayn Rand, _Atlas Shrugged , Ch. III, "White Blackmail" |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:25:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: Sounds like a racket. "Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We *want* them broken. You'd better get it straight That it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against– then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with." - - Ayn Rand, _Atlas Shrugged , Ch. III, "White Blackmail" "If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions." –– Thomas Jefferson |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:31:39 PM EDT
[#42]
John Locke
Second Treatise of Civil Government- Chapter 19 Sec. 222. ……….whenever the legislators endeavor to take away, and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any farther obedience, and are left to the common refuge, which God hath provided for all men, against force and violence. Whensoever therefore the legislative shall transgress this fundamental rule of society; and either by ambition, fear, folly or corruption, endeavor to grasp themselves, or put into the hands of any other, an absolute power over the lives, liberties, and estates of the people; by this breach of trust they forfeit the power the people had put into their hands for quite contrary ends, and it devolves to the people, who have a right to resume their original liberty, and, by the establishment of a new legislative, (such as they shall think fit) provide for their own safety and security, which is the end for which they are in society. 
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:32:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
if the irs is involved watch them take the money right from out paychecks each week, we couldnt do anything about that couldn't or won't? i'm not advocating anything here (CoC#4), but a tax on tea once drove future Americans over the edge... couldnt. I highly doubt you can get rid of the taxes in your paycheck, I would take out state, fed, medicare or whatever I pay for. Were forced to pay those, and if they throw in gubmedical you will be forced to pay that, or only get a job that pays cash you don't get my point. when the british imposed a new tea tax, the future American's said NO. Not only to the tax, but to the government as a whole.... and they did something about that problem. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:34:00 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:42:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does the Federal Government have the Constitutional authority to charge fees on being a citizen? Not income tax. I don't have to pay that if I don't work. This health care fee is due for everyone. What if I don't pay it for my kids? Will they go to jail as well? How does that work? A 16 year old is required to file taxes if they work, and can probably get busted for tax evasion (I don't know?). Can they get busted for not paying their healthcare fee? They have the authority, under the power to tax. However, it (a tax on everyone who does not buy health insurance) would be a direct tax, and subject to apportionment among the states (eg, they couldn't keep the $$$)... This is not a tax. It is a fee. The Federal Government has the Constitutional authority to "...collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States..." This fee does not provide for the defense or welfare of the United States. Under what Constitutional authority? This is a fee that is charged solely based on being an American citizen. You cannot 'opt out'. You can opt out of all other taxes by not engaging in any activity that is taxed. You can not opt out of living, without giving up another Constitutional 'guarantee'. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 8:47:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Hold on a second, I thought that we killed the socialized medicine program! I was told several times on this very board just yesterday that the socialized medicine program is dead thanks to Glenn Beck getting the word out. What's all this about then?
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Posted: 9/25/2009 9:12:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
What's all this about then? It's about SLAVERY. The SLAVERY of the American tax-paying citizen.
The Statists want us to submit to the State. We must surrender our property, liberty, and life to the State, or else be deprived of our property, liberty, and life by the State. DoubleplusgoodObamaCare. Thought criminals will not be tolerated. Signed, Ministry of Love Jizya From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Under Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزْية IPA: [ˈdʒɪzjæh]; Ottoman Turkish: cizye; both derived from Pahlavi and ultimately from Aramaic gaziyat [1]) is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is/was to be levied on able bodied adult males of military age and affording power,[2] (but with specific exemptions,[3][4] though these were discarded at various points in history[5]). From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws. Criticism Orientalist S.D. Goitein writes: It was, of course, evident that the tax represented a discrimination and was intended, according to the Koran's own words, to emphasize the inferior status of the non-believers. It seemed, however, that from the economic point of view, it did not constitute a heavy imposition, since it was on a sliding scale, approximately one, two, and four dinars, and thus adjusted to the financial capacity of the taxpayer. This impression proved to be entirely fallacious, for it did not take into consideration the immense extent of poverty and privation experienced by the masses, and in particular their way of living from hand to mouth, their persistent lack of cash, which turned the "season of the tax" into one of horror, dread, and misery. The provisions of ancient Islamic law which exempted the indigent, the invalids and the old, were no longer observed in the Geniza period and had been discarded by the Shāfi‘ī School of Law, which prevailed in Egypt, also in theory.[5]
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. The income tax is voluntary. Obamacare isn't the Final Solution. |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 9:15:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Only if your white republican and work for a living!!!
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Posted: 9/25/2009 9:25:21 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What's all this about then? It's about SLAVERY. The SLAVERY of the American tax-paying citizen.
The Statists want us to submit to the State. We must surrender our property, liberty, and life to the State, or else be deprived of our property, liberty, and life by the State. DoubleplusgoodObamaCare. Thought criminals will not be tolerated. Signed, Ministry of Love Jizya From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Under Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزْية IPA: [ˈdʒɪzjæh]; Ottoman Turkish: cizye; both derived from Pahlavi and ultimately from Aramaic gaziyat [1]) is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is/was to be levied on able bodied adult males of military age and affording power,[2] (but with specific exemptions,[3][4] though these were discarded at various points in history[5]). From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws. Criticism Orientalist S.D. Goitein writes: It was, of course, evident that the tax represented a discrimination and was intended, according to the Koran's own words, to emphasize the inferior status of the non-believers. It seemed, however, that from the economic point of view, it did not constitute a heavy imposition, since it was on a sliding scale, approximately one, two, and four dinars, and thus adjusted to the financial capacity of the taxpayer. This impression proved to be entirely fallacious, for it did not take into consideration the immense extent of poverty and privation experienced by the masses, and in particular their way of living from hand to mouth, their persistent lack of cash, which turned the "season of the tax" into one of horror, dread, and misery. The provisions of ancient Islamic law which exempted the indigent, the invalids and the old, were no longer observed in the Geniza period and had been discarded by the Shāfi‘ī School of Law, which prevailed in Egypt, also in theory.[5]
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. The income tax is voluntary. Obamacare isn't the Final Solution. Dear Brother, Please refer to your 10th edition newspeak dictionary. "Ministry of Love" should read "Miniluv" Have a productive day. From the office of the Grammar Czar of AMSOC |
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Posted: 9/25/2009 9:52:22 PM EDT
[#50]
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