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Posted: 1/20/2019 10:16:04 AM EDT
[#1]
New ? Didn’t they do this in the 70s .
Edit rename it to ( 350 BOWTIE ) . |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 10:17:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they did it right, this fits the world of standard AR parts. In that context, a straight wall .223 case is basically the biggest cartridge you're going to fit without sacrificing capacity or common parts. Hopefully, we're looking at something that has much better subsonic terminal ballistics than .300blk. This could be America's 9x39mm. If I can form from 223 cases I might be onboard. Edit: Given it’s modest velocity I’d bet it works well in an SBR and powder coated cast bullets should be workable. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 10:25:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That seems like an awfully small market, but looks like an interesting cartridge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting...would definitely be popular in areas that only allow straight wall rifle cases for hunting. Sort of want because reasons... |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 10:26:05 AM EDT
[#4]
I was looking at the 300 HAM’R before this. Too many options.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 10:27:10 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh hell yes, I want one right now. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 11:02:43 AM EDT
[#6]
Nice. It’s a .450 Busmaster lite. Clearly marketed to the straight wall cartridge hunting crowd. I just went all in on a .450 Bushmaster after a few years of research and hem hawing, I can see the appeal of this round.
I think it will be a big hit if it doesn’t have mag troubles and the aftermarket upper companies can crank them out, along with plenty of ammo in the pipeline. As a practical matter, most all hunting is done 200 yds and less. This round looks to fit that bill perfectly. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 11:06:06 AM EDT
[#7]
So it's a magnum .351 WSL? That could be fun.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 11:09:35 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see a new upper build in my future. 
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Posted: 1/20/2019 11:11:30 AM EDT
[#9]
Hi capacity lever action round in a tube fed rifle .
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Posted: 1/20/2019 11:14:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Now, that's a 9mm AR I can get behind.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 12:16:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hi capacity lever action round in a tube fed rifle . |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 12:20:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, I'm not understanding the point of this? Why are y'all interested in it? I'm more utilitarian though, and it seems other cartridges would do a better job at killing, so? |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 12:39:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Everyone would love to keep 30rds on tap of some hard hitting round like this, a bug advantage over the 450BM. Moving up to an AR10 gets you a lot more ammo options, but that light weight of the AR15 platform makes it so attractive. Maybe this is finally a workable middle ground.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 12:56:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Historically has this many gun/ammo manufactures flooded the market with this many new calibers?
Doesn’t seem that way. I’m sure it’s a cool round but a lot of investment for a little advantage. If you can resize .223 brass without any fire forming it would work. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:10:41 PM EDT
[#15]
I want to see what this does on game. Is the bullet diameter legal or meet the minimum requirements for straight wall cartridge areas? Can these be made from .223 brass, or no?
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:13:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Historically has this many gun/ammo manufactures flooded the market with this many new calibers? Doesn’t seem that way. I’m sure it’s a cool round but a lot of investment for a little advantage. If you can resize .223 brass without any fire forming it would work. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:17:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Give me one in a 94 Trapper.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:21:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting...would definitely be popular in areas that only allow straight wall rifle cases for hunting. Sort of want because reasons... |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:24:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know it's dumb to ask what the logic is behind a firearms law, but why would there be a restriction for only straight wall cartridges? |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:26:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shorter range in comparison to modern bottle-neck cartridges, in general. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I know it's dumb to ask what the logic is behind a firearms law, but why would there be a restriction for only straight wall cartridges? |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:28:08 PM EDT
[#21]
I thought I read somewhere that the 450 Bushmaster was Ruger’s hottest selling caliber.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:32:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know it's dumb to ask what the logic is behind a firearms law, but why would there be a restriction for only straight wall cartridges? I’ve been looking to build a .450 bushmaster, but with this .357 getting popular, I may build an AR in it. I also have a Savage axis (started .223) that I put a 300 blackout barrel on, but now I may rebarrel to 357 so I can take a cheap, lightweight rifle hunting on Ohio trips. Im prettymuch over lugging the 870 around and watching it rust away. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:32:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know it's dumb to ask what the logic is behind a firearms law, but why would there be a restriction for only straight wall cartridges? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting...would definitely be popular in areas that only allow straight wall rifle cases for hunting. Sort of want because reasons... Outside of .357 or .44 mag, the only major options are .45-70 and 450 Bushmaster, which could be problematic for recoil sensitive shooters. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:32:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not saying this will be an unqualified success but it's about as little investment as you could ask for. A barrel swap is probably all that will be required. Maybe brass can be formed from 223, maybe not (I'm going with probably not unless the cartridge is shorter than ot looks). Shoots 357 projectiles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Historically has this many gun/ammo manufactures flooded the market with this many new calibers? Doesn’t seem that way. I’m sure it’s a cool round but a lot of investment for a little advantage. If you can resize .223 brass without any fire forming it would work. Is there a good way to measure the width of the case as pictured, compare it to the length, and cross reference that with the known width of a .223 to get the length of the case and the OAL of the cartridge as shown here? I don't really do any Photoshop type stuff, but I'd imagine something along those lines would have a good mechanism for measuring things in photos. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:33:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. Trying to prevent over traveling. Dumb shit for sure. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:33:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The case isn’t rimmed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hi capacity lever action round in a tube fed rifle . |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:35:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Good Damn it Winchester. Just start selling .35 WCF again.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:36:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Good on Winchester, sounds promising
hopefully this catches on better than most .35s do here in the states.....they don't die but are usually relegated to Cult cartridges |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:39:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good Damn it Winchester. Just start selling .35 WCF again. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgOeMI_VhXXI2bI5DwvlwyGqfP6fHrXpHMXcsq1qWM5FMPQuE0LA |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:41:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't have to be. Marlin has been pumping out lever actions in the rimless .35 Remington for probably a hundred years. The advantage is that it fits in .223 sized actions like the AR platforms and the mini bolt actions (CZ 527, Zastava Mini Mauser, Howa Mini) It would also probably work well in a Contender pistol. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:47:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want to see what this does on game. Is the bullet diameter legal or meet the minimum requirements for straight wall cartridge areas? Can these be made from .223 brass, or no? |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 1:51:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Anyone know how close this is to .357 AR maximum rimless wildcat that’s been around for a few years? I can’t find shit on google and I’m wondering where the hell im going to find a savage pre-fit barrel before November.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 2:01:14 PM EDT
[#33]
I find this interesting. I’m in a state that requires straight wall cartridges for deer hunting and at initial look this meets the legal requirements. I welcome the competition, the current rifles that meet this requirement are priced were i can buy a new bolt or lever rifle with optic and still have money in my pocket for less that just buying an upper.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 2:08:34 PM EDT
[#34]
This looks like an interesting round to me if it functions reliably in an AR. The straight wall should be simple to reload and the brass should last a long time. At subsonic speeds, it would be a reliable and quiet defensive load. Supersonics would be a good medium game cartridge out to 150 yards (+/-). It has the potential to be a 357 magnum on steroids, and the 357 in a lever action is a respectable round already. I hope the cartridge takes off.
Cartridges like the 450 are still great rounds, but ammo gets heavy and it gets expensive to put really heavy bullets downrange all the time. 35 calibers are a nice balance. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 2:08:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got a feeling that standard .223 mags are not going to feed right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What are the chances that the only thing a standard AR needs to function with this cartridge is a barrel? I would imagine the standard BCG will work since .223 is the parent case, but what about mags and buffers? ETA: internal ribs would have to be removed, of course |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 2:10:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they did it right, this fits the world of standard AR parts. In that context, a straight wall .223 case is basically the biggest cartridge you're going to fit without sacrificing capacity or common parts. Hopefully, we're looking at something that has much better subsonic terminal ballistics than .300blk. This could be America's 9x39mm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I'm not understanding the point of this? Why are y'all interested in it? I'm more utilitarian though, and it seems other cartridges would do a better job at killing, so? In that context, a straight wall .223 case is basically the biggest cartridge you're going to fit without sacrificing capacity or common parts. Hopefully, we're looking at something that has much better subsonic terminal ballistics than .300blk. This could be America's 9x39mm. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 2:14:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know it's dumb to ask what the logic is behind a firearms law, but why would there be a restriction for only straight wall cartridges? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting...would definitely be popular in areas that only allow straight wall rifle cases for hunting. Sort of want because reasons... Also, it makes huntig more of a challenge, an approach for managing game levels |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 2:21:08 PM EDT
[#38]
(snickering)
I'm imagining loading a C-Mag with this new(?) cartridge and putting the Upper onto a Full Auto Lower. Get into a nice and comfortable Prone Position and doing a Mag Dump I think I'm having too much fun this weekend. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 2:25:08 PM EDT
[#39]
Weird seeing two prongs of ammo development/popularity. One for high BC, flat shooting and the opposite.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 2:25:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The old 38-55 is .375 cal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So it's a 38-55? 
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Posted: 1/20/2019 2:25:36 PM EDT
[#41]
I am oddly intrigued. Borderline aroused.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 2:25:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That. Is there a good way to measure the width of the case as pictured, compare it to the length, and cross reference that with the known width of a .223 to get the length of the case and the OAL of the cartridge as shown here? I don't really do any Photoshop type stuff, but I'd imagine something along those lines would have a good mechanism for measuring things in photos. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Historically has this many gun/ammo manufactures flooded the market with this many new calibers? Doesn't seem that way. I'm sure it's a cool round but a lot of investment for a little advantage. If you can resize .223 brass without any fire forming it would work. Is there a good way to measure the width of the case as pictured, compare it to the length, and cross reference that with the known width of a .223 to get the length of the case and the OAL of the cartridge as shown here? I don't really do any Photoshop type stuff, but I'd imagine something along those lines would have a good mechanism for measuring things in photos. ETA: Here it is, third or fourth post down. https://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/new-winchester-350-legend-10003012?trail= |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 2:26:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Nice.
I'll get some video. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 3:44:07 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've got a feeling that standard .223 mags are not going to feed right. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 4:02:45 PM EDT
[#45]
Wonder how this thing would work with subsonic loads? You could make some crazy long solid copper projectiles for this thing, since you won't need much case capacity to push 900-1000fps.
380 grains at 1000fps seems plausible. You would need one hell of a tight twist rate for that bore though, and I'm not sure how the gas system would work out. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 4:17:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 356 then? |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 4:21:00 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m intrigued. If this out Blackouts the Blackout, it could be pretty cool. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 5:08:59 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man, this got my attention. I love the .35. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm intrigued. If this out Blackouts the Blackout, it could be pretty cool. I shoot everything from 60 gr to 200 gr in the .355/.356/.358 family already. 300 grain bullets would be interesting. I started to build a .338 version of this a few years ago but lost interest because the available bullets were too expensive, it just wasn't worth it. .355/.357 doesn't have that problem. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 5:20:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Historically has this many gun/ammo manufactures flooded the market with this many new calibers? Doesn't seem that way. In the 70s, 80s, and 90s it was the super ultra long mega magnum cartridges and the various "varmint" rounds. in the 2000s it was the super ultra short mega magnum cartridges. In the 2010s it has been mostly AR-15 and AR-10 cartridges. Thankfully these are actually useful for more than just blowing a whitetail in half from 3 counties over and more people are actually buying them to shoot. Does anyone lament the lack of popularity of 7mm STW or 300 Weatherby? Me either. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 5:34:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its been that way for a long time. In the 70s, 80s, and 90s it was the super ultra long mega magnum cartridges and the various "varmint" rounds. in the 2000s it was the super ultra short mega magnum cartridges. In the 2010s it has been mostly AR-15 and AR-10 cartridges. Thankfully these are actually useful for more than just blowing a whitetail in half from 3 counties over and more people are actually buying them to shoot. Does anyone lament the lack of popularity of 7mm STW or 300 Weatherby? Me either. |
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