Winchester's new 350 Legend cartridge 35-223 AR compatible - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Winchester's new 350 Legend cartridge 35-223 AR compatible (Page 3 of 11)

Posted: 1/20/2019 5:39:35 PM EDT

[#1]

I always wondered why somebody didn't just load standard 9mm bullets in necked up .223.....would be pretty cheap

Posted: 1/20/2019 5:50:34 PM EDT

[#2]

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I always wondered why somebody didn't just load standard 9mm bullets in necked up .223.....would be pretty cheap

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Well that's pretty much what this is so now your days of wondering are finally at an end.

Posted: 1/20/2019 5:53:36 PM EDT

[#3]

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So it's a 38-55?

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My first thought was a rimless .351 slr.

Posted: 1/20/2019 7:48:23 PM EDT

[#4]

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Probably the only reason 450 bushmaster is still somewhat populare.

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Interesting...would definitely be popular in areas that only allow straight wall rifle cases for hunting.

Sort of want because reasons...

That seems like an awfully small market, but looks like an interesting cartridge.

Probably the only reason 450 bushmaster is still somewhat populare.

I think it's a pretty big market now that many states in the midwest are allowing straight walled cartridges in the zones formerly restricted to shotguns or muzzleloaders. The problem I see here is they are 5 years late to the market. All my freinds that are serious hunters in the MI "shotgun zone" already have .450 BMs in Ruger American rifles. They aren't, for the most part, AR folks so the AR compatibility will be wasted on them. The .450 BM has gained quite a reputation here. I doubt many of them will want to downsize to a .357. I'd be up for one just in case I want to hunt MIs "Shotgun zone" but since I hunt MIs "rifle zone" it's not an immediate "need". I predict this will have a surge of initial popularity and then die a commercial death and be another .45 GAP.

Posted: 1/20/2019 7:53:22 PM EDT

[#5]

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Its been that way for a long time.

In the 70s, 80s, and 90s it was the super ultra long mega magnum cartridges and the various "varmint" rounds.

in the 2000s it was the super ultra short mega magnum cartridges.

In the 2010s it has been mostly AR-15 and AR-10 cartridges. Thankfully these are actually useful for more than just blowing a whitetail in half from 3 counties over and more people are actually buying them to shoot.

Does anyone lament the lack of popularity of 7mm STW or 300 Weatherby? Me either.

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I remember a gun salesman trying to push the new etronx.

Posted: 1/21/2019 2:47:39 PM EDT

[#6]

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I remember a gun salesman trying to push the new etronx.

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I think THE major advantage this new cartridge has going for it is the compatibility with AR type rifles.

Posted: 1/21/2019 2:57:10 PM EDT

[#7]

I wonder what a 65gr Lehigh XD bullet going 3400+ fps would do to a block of ballistics gelatin.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:02:14 PM EDT

[#8]

From the tech thread:

https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2019/01/21/472023/

"The 1st rifle being offered is a Winchester XPR bolt-action. The cartridge will be working within a grain weight of 145 – 265 grains. Within that spectrum you have your choice of a 145 Grain FMJ (Full-Metal Jacket), 150 Grain Deer Season XP, and 180 Grain PowerPoint for factory ammo...

The explicit bullet diameter is .357? with a 1.71? case length...

Simple FMJ boxes of 20 rounds are expected to sell for $9.99 making them very affordable."

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:23:18 PM EDT

[#9]

This is what I always wanted.

I'm so glad I waited to adopt 300.

If this ends up being cromulent I will ditch 308 and fully adopt the one AR project.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:27:58 PM EDT

[#10]

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They need to do the same thing for big frame guns in .45.

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45 Raptor

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:31:16 PM EDT

[#11]

It’s like A blackout except you can’t accidentally chamber it.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:33:06 PM EDT

[#12]

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From the tech thread:

https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2019/01/21/472023/

"The 1st rifle being offered is a Winchester XPR bolt-action. The cartridge will be working within a grain weight of 145 – 265 grains. Within that spectrum you have your choice of a 145 Grain FMJ (Full-Metal Jacket), 150 Grain Deer Season XP, and 180 Grain PowerPoint for factory ammo...

The explicit bullet diameter is .357? with a 1.71? case length...

Simple FMJ boxes of 20 rounds are expected to sell for $9.99 making them very affordable."

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The XPR looks underwhelming.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:33:17 PM EDT

[#13]

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I've got a feeling that standard .223 mags are not going to feed right.

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since it is straight walled, it woudlnt hold the full 30 correctly, the .223 case is tapered(not nearly as much as the AK47 mag though), you can likely USE 30 round mags but only load them to 10 or 15. FWIW you can reliably run 5.45 in a 5.56 magazine with few issues, only load them to 20 and i had no issues using regular P mags with my old upper.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:33:50 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:
From the tech thread:

https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2019/01/21/472023/

"The 1st rifle being offered is a Winchester XPR bolt-action. The cartridge will be working within a grain weight of 145 – 265 grains. Within that spectrum you have your choice of a 145 Grain FMJ (Full-Metal Jacket), 150 Grain Deer Season XP, and 180 Grain PowerPoint for factory ammo...

The explicit bullet diameter is .357? with a 1.71? case length...

Simple FMJ boxes of 20 rounds are expected to sell for $9.99 making them very affordable."

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My eyebrows just hit the ceiling upon reading the pricing. I suspect it will be cast-bullet-friendly and have respectable short-barrel performance. I think I'll be in for a pistol upper if the cartridge is reliably AR-compatible.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:34:52 PM EDT

[#15]

So 9mm extra-extra-long then? Cool!

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:36:29 PM EDT

[#16]

Here is a link to the actual article. Not sure what that other link was about?

https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2019/01/21/shot-2019-winchester-new-350-legend/

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:37:24 PM EDT

[#17]

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The XPR looks underwhelming.

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Once the XPR is rolled out, I bet it comes out in the M70s pretty quick.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:38:24 PM EDT

[#18]

If they want it to take off, start dumping 20 round WWB FMJ for $8/box.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:38:57 PM EDT

[#19]

So, would this work in my .30cal suppressor after 4 or 5 shots?

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:44:23 PM EDT

[#20]

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If they want it to take off, start dumping 20 round WWB FMJ for $8/box.

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Earlier referenced article says $9.99 / 20 msrp, so that may not be unreasonable.

Honestly looking forward to this, I think it will be very fun suppressed with the proper barrel twist and a big fat cast bullet. Should be able to get away with most any 9mm can with a decent barrel length I would think with subsonics.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:44:39 PM EDT

[#21]

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So, would this work in my .30cal suppressor after 4 or 5 shots?

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You will need an extremely fast twist rate barrel and some custom bullets made out of end mills.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:44:44 PM EDT

[#22]

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It’s like A blackout except you can’t accidentally chamber it.

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That's actually a good selling point considering the amount of kabooms I see posted these days.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:45:20 PM EDT

[#23]

As a kid, shooting my first .357 magnum revolver, I always wanted an AR15 cartridge to shoot a .357 bullet.

Why? I'm not sure. Just seemed like the ultimate in home defense type of cartridge

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:45:49 PM EDT

[#24]

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You will need an extremely fast twist rate barrel and some custom bullets made out of end mills.

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I like your style.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:49:53 PM EDT

[#25]

Might be useful in Michigan and other straight wall cartridge hunting states depending on the cartridge length.

ETA someone already mentioned this. I've been really happy with .450 Bushmaster

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:50:31 PM EDT

[#26]

starline sells a .223 basic case for those worried about brass 1.780 - 1.810 O.A.L.

Posted: 1/21/2019 3:59:20 PM EDT

[#27]

I do love 9mm rifles

Posted: 1/21/2019 4:07:26 PM EDT

[#28]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.351_Winchester_Self-Loading

Seems....familiar.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/12/19/a-look-back-at-the-winchester-model-1907-rifle/

I like the 1907 version. It’s sexy in a classic way. But it needs the 15 or 20 round mag.

Posted: 1/21/2019 4:11:56 PM EDT

[#29]

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.351_Winchester_Self-Loading

Seems....familiar.

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But that says they did a .351 projectile. Is this not a .357?

Posted: 1/21/2019 4:15:52 PM EDT

[#30]

humm...

I wonder if there's gonna be any extraction issues with that long of straight case.

Posted: 1/21/2019 4:24:23 PM EDT

[#31]

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Once the XPR is rolled out, I bet it comes out in the M70s pretty quick.

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The XPR looks underwhelming.

Once the XPR is rolled out, I bet it comes out in the M70s pretty quick.

I'm going to die if we're able to buy Winchester marked ARs.

Posted: 1/21/2019 4:33:22 PM EDT

[#32]

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I'm going to die if we're able to buy Winchester marked ARs.

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You probably won’t have to die then. They are too fud of a company to ever change. And will go the way of the dodo bird within a generation.

Posted: 1/21/2019 4:34:42 PM EDT

[#33]

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You probably won’t have to die then. They are too fud of a company to ever change. And will go the way of the dodo bird within a generation.

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I'm going to die if we're able to buy Winchester marked ARs.

You probably won’t have to die then. They are too fud of a company to ever change. And will go the way of the dodo bird within a generation.

They're owned by FN.

I never thought I'd see a Ruger or Savage marked AR.

Posted: 1/21/2019 4:54:02 PM EDT

[#34]

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starline sells a .223 basic case for those worried about brass 1.780 - 1.810 O.A.L.

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If those Winchester prices are correct ($9.99 per 20) , it's not much more to buy loaded ammo.

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:01:41 PM EDT

[#35]

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So.......a 350 blackout? ;)

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That is legal to shoot during hunting season in stTes that require straight wall cartridges.

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:10:01 PM EDT

[#36]

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It’s like A blackout except you can’t accidentally chamber it.

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Sure except it has a larger diameter bullet, heavier avg. bullet weight and is a straight walled case. So sure, I guess it's like the BO.

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:12:04 PM EDT

[#37]

I've been wanting a 357 straight wall rimless. I like the cartridge and specs. Soooo... IN!

The 9x39 was what I've been watching. This will also make the cut.

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:12:13 PM EDT

[#38]

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Interesting...would definitely be popular in areas that only allow straight wall rifle cases for hunting.

Sort of want because reasons...

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Never heard of such a thing.

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:17:34 PM EDT

[#39]

Intradasting!

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:22:19 PM EDT

[#40]

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Meh, I'm not understanding the point of this?

Why are y'all interested in it? I'm more utilitarian though, and it seems other cartridges would do a better job at killing, so?

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.35 cal is an excellent Hog & Deer thumper, and new cartridges are fun.

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:29:32 PM EDT

[#41]

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.35 cal is an excellent Hog & Deer thumper, and new cartridges are fun.

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Meh, I'm not understanding the point of this?

Why are y'all interested in it? I'm more utilitarian though, and it seems other cartridges would do a better job at killing, so?

.35 cal is an excellent Hog & Deer thumper, and new cartridges are fun.

Also it's the way they should have gone with the bastardized calibers in the first place. Why not straight walled ar with only a barrel mag change?

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:34:12 PM EDT

[#42]

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I love 35 cals. There's a huge variety of bullets from 110gr pistol bullets to .250 gr heavies. I expect 200gr would be about the limit with this new cartridge without taking up too much powder space. Although really heavy subsonics might work.

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I've loaded up some old Barnes 250 grain round nose in my 300 Blackout. I think I'm using something like 8.3 grains of powder. If you're going to shoot subs, then heavier is better.

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:43:36 PM EDT

[#43]

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So it's a magnum .351 WSL? That could be fun.

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Came here to say something similar. (note user name)

What's old is new (1907). Having common diameter bullets, versus .351 will be a plus, though.

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:49:17 PM EDT

[#44]

I definitely want.

Go over to castboolits.gunloads.com in the special projects section, and you will find where there have been uppers already made and running a 357 max AR rimless cartridge.

1.6" in length. Have to trim and ream 223 brass or the Starline basic brass.

I tried it years ago (turned 357 max brass to 223 rim specs) but gave up because of magazine issues, but the guy called "Moleman" got it all figured out and working.

200gr and 2000 fps should be doable. I have a rechambered Ruger #1, in 357 max and can get a 200gr cast over 2200 fps.

Probably run 180'ish gr. bullets in the 350 legend. Powder coated 180's should work great!!

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:50:31 PM EDT

[#45]

I like it. I may build up a deer rifle around it, though I'm not sure it will really do anything better than my .444 Marlin AK.

I'm curious about velocity and drop with the ~150grain hunting bullet loads.

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:56:08 PM EDT

[#46]

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I like it. I may build up a deer rifle around it, though I'm not sure it will really do anything better than my .444 Marlin AK.

I'm curious about velocity and drop with the ~150grain hunting bullet loads.

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Winchester has their specs online already. 150s

Posted: 1/21/2019 6:04:22 PM EDT

[#47]

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Winchester has their specs online already. 150s

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Looks like 150 may be the sweet spot....

https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Rifle/Power-Max-Bonded/X3501BP

Posted: 1/21/2019 6:34:55 PM EDT

[#48]

just to clarify for my dumb self, this uses .357 mag diameter bullets?

That would make an extremely versatile subsonic cartridge. A reloader's dream, really.