They are quietly waiting for all the helium to leak out before they get to the "hey we need a lifeboat" phase.

For missions to the ISS (or its replacement) you want commonality - the odds on 'routine' missions for an issue to occur are statistically higher than on a one time or rare mission. (a one in a hundred times event will probably happen over the course of several hundred flights, for example)

You want certain things to be common - like docking systems having compatible latches. You want common umbilicals for tying into station systems.

You probably want standardized environmental suits and mission specific EVA suits.

You probably want plug and play for things like CO2 scrubbers so in an emergency you can easily replace or substitute them.

You want common interfaces between suits and spacecraft - this allows for things like vendor competition and allows multiple countries to participate using their own space suits.

For economy of scale and RESUSE, you want standardization where possible

Reuse brings costs down significantly.

Over in the latest SW thread which has a lot of OMGBOEING noise someone had posted that it's not the event it's the message. Nobody picked up on what he's saying.

I'll talk it a little bit here. This is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth. I'm thinking that the internet is evolving very fast and it's not in a good way. Algorithm and AI is taking control in a huge way giving "people" what they want.

Last Saturday they did a lot of function tests monitoring chamber pressures and observing ISS telemetry to gather confidence in the Starliner SM. They talked this out in the teleconference and threw down a return timeline juggling the schedule with ISS operations and EVA's. The only thing that has changed since then (Monday afternoon) is they kicked undocking to the right to let EVA play through. (As far as I can tell)

The internet media has made tons of click bait articles this week with one or two lines of new schedule hidden inside an entire article of doom because that's what the "people" want.

The ship status hasn't changed they have one thruster deselected and five He manifolds with minor leaks (the 300 or whatever psi is pretty high though) that they communicated were actually improving with use last weekend. There are 20 OMAC thrusters and 28 RCS thrusters on the SM, deselecting one (from either group) for poor chamber pressures is not the problem it's being spun into. And 70 hours of He for a 7 hour operation.





@Pavelow16478 thanks.



@ AmericanPeople thanks.

Idk if anyone is really seeing what is going on. 10-2 scrubs and rolls back to the barn and crickets. I can only imagine the info above is a change on their mission status page that only someone really looking would notice. There is no announcement or media asking and reporting this is there? Nothing from neither the big media outlets or the space enthusiasts you tube "media".  There's even less about the last falcon heavy that rolled back to the barn for 2 weeks because of a weather scrub.

I'm not saying boeing doesn't need to do better, they do on many fronts in all divisions. The other guys are flying like crazy, no doubt. To think they don't have issues as well is ignorance from the lack of transparency. Maybe if anyone thinks I'm full of shit, go ahead and do an internet search for spacex p-213 tape. The results are surprising. You're only going to see one company yet both were using it.

Elon is a smart MFer. Let anyone know about issues and the jump to conclusions mat is getting rolled out. Algorithms and AI is taking over.

Well it’s good to know that it’s successfully being drug around as ballast.

Starlink 10-2 apparently changing out the booster after the T-0 post ignition abort is not really newsworthy.  While it would be interesting to know what caused the abort, it was not a catastrophic event.  As much as SpaceX launches, their "mechanical" issues seems to be infrequent.

Reply #87 here is where I saw the booster swap comment.   I don't pay much attention to the booster number.

You’re probably right on both counts - clickbaitey news articles and less than full transparency from nasa and Boeing.  

To be fair, nasa has made poor decisions in the past and killed astronauta and Boeing airplanes are all the rage in the media, so put those two together and it can generate lots of clicks.  
Space x has failed, but their spectacular failures were announced ahead of time as “ we are trying this and expect it to fail” so they appear to be more transparent.  

And on the helium 70 hours….  That’s neglecting the leaked amounts.  I’m sure there is concern about 5 more leaks springing up as soon as they leave ISS and if those leaks all combined are big enough they run out of helium, can’t control the attitude, and burn up on reentry.  Guarantee you that’s a risk they have penciled in and are addressing.  

Booster 10-2 has flow to space, reentered Earth’s atmosphere and landed pinpoint on a floating barge or launch pad 15 times successfully and scrubbed its 16th launch to have an engine swapped. That booster alone has a better record than Boeing. Then you add in all the other Falcon boosters that also have impressive launch numbers and it gets really really ridiculous. When SpaceX is putting more tonnage in to orbit than all the other launch orgs on the planet, combined, a rare scrub isn’t that newsworthy and shouldn’t be.

When Boeing, one of the biggest defense contractors and old space players, can’t get a simple rocket and pod off the launch pad without scrubbing over and over (over a time span of YEARS) and when it finally flies, leaks and has to stay at ISS for an extra month/indefinitely to analyze the potential risk of burning up 2 more astronauts, it’s kinda something to talk about

They’re not sure it’s going to make it down in one piece and stalling to figure out a solution to whatever the problem is before they have to publicly jettison it as space trash and ask the Russians to come do a pickup.

The Russians won’t do a pickup.

Are you late to this party because the band on stage is SpaceX.

The AI crap about this that is flooding YouTube is all parroting the same message.
Boeing BAD and finished, Starliner Bad and finished.
Even the headliners are out and out lies.

Try calling one out and all you get back in return is a 'hearted' comment and a like.

So I gave you too much credit for picking that out?

Kidding aside, removing and integrating the payload onto another booster is less work and faster than what had to be done to get falcon heavy sorted out and back on the pad that last time.

You are correct, it was no catastrophic event. I won't sit here and play the what if game either. The only reason we know something is going on with it is because whatever issue it was happened right in front of us. The sad part about this is no one picked up on it. The only thing that comes came out from the news is a rare shut down abort and we'll see you next time.  I don't see where how this could be viewed as not newsworthy unless only positive spacex news and negative boeing news are the algorithm returns so that's what we'll report about.

As far as their mechanical issues being infrequent. Well I guess we have to accept that data? What do we really know when they don't even tell us about the things we see.

You think NASA is going to give Wlon the nod after the government has determined he threatens their cash cow.

I think this is new vs old space thinking.  

Prior to SpaceX, an abort would be major big news with months of speculation, engineering, and  millions to billions spent on making sure it doesn't happen again.

Falcon's launch abort is no different than American Airlines needing to switch planes because of a mechanical issue. Maybe take a little longer, but it really is as simple as swapping one proven but malfunctioning airframe for a working one. That's how pedestrian SpaceX launches have become.  

Hate to go to overused business jibberjabber, but "paradigm shift" is an appropriate term here.

Whenever I think of SpaceXs launch cadence I'm reminded of a garbage truck from a cartoon show. "If it fits in the faring then we can take it to orbit. Heck, we might even squash it for you to make it fit."

Under the right circumstances, the right conditions, the right timing, he'll bring down the Starliner crew, just because it's the right thing to do.

Jay

You are correct sir. My only conclusion is that it's possibly the #s from a 1 hour decay test on the manifolds or something. If that's the case then it makes this an even smaller problem than it's being made out to be.

If they actually eventually ride that thing back down, it's going to be a hair raising ride!

They just won't KNOW if they're gonna make it.

They just need to get really drunk beforehand, they won't even remember what happened and how they ended up back on earth.

They got a liquor cabinet on the ISS?

If they don't then they should. I suppose if they were really desperate they could mix Tang with rubbing alcohol.

Ok just looked this up, BOO! 👎!

One of the things people exhale and that they have to deal with is formaldehyde. Booze increases your O2 intake and your CO2 and water output.

I'm not saying it's not understandable. It just seems a bit cruel to stick someone in a tin can for months, possibly years at a time and not give them the option of getting drunk.

When private companies start operating their own stations they will hopefully have better life support systems. As it is the system they have on the Russian section of the station is a lost technology. I've also heard that it smells pretty bad inside that thing.

Not really an option to open the windows and let in some fresh air.

They should just put garbage in it and send that. They gotta send stuff down once in a while.  Then wait for SpaceX to get them.

That's some expensive trash disposal

lol

I wonder how people like Stich are feeling now.  Or the head of Boeing.

But there is an assumption among all parties that the company will do everything within it's power to be competent.
That said, the pilots ultimately have to decide if that is the case.

I'm sure they have some ethal alcohol.

To my mind, the real issue is the degree of certainty that they've identified all the leaks...

They think they have a safety factor of 10 for flight time.  But can they really trust that?   I wouldn't.

gummies legal in space?

Good question, but probably not. I would imagine NASA does... Very rigorous tests for narcotics.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of someone having eaten one before going on Jeff Bezos's space penis carnival ride though.

Some of the articles on this are a bit melodramatic.

Astronauts stranded in space due to multiple issues with Boeing's Starliner — and the window for a return flight is closing

I'm guessing you didn't do an internet search for rejected or aborted takeoffs before trying to use commercial airtravel as a simile. There's plenty of recent new articles on this very thing.

The FSDO will want to talk with you or your maintenance dept also



You can try to down play it however you want. Changing planes at the gate is not the same.

Replace Boeing with SpaceX and Starliner with Falcon or Starship and that should sound very familiar.

I wasn't talking about either. YouTube has been flooded with false statements about all of the above though.

Either they don't know why the helium leaks keep happening, or they are afraid to say. It is a capsule with helium leaks and failing thrusters.

The politics surrounding this mission are interesting. Leftists everywhere are hoping that Elon Musk gets some kind of comeuppance, and there are also people across the spectrum hoping this mission succeeds so it demonstrates that American industry can still "get things done" and evoke some kind of nostalgia.

Will Boeing Starliner issues delay its 1st long-duration astronaut flight? It’s too soon to tell.

This article talks about the first long duration Starliner flight.  My view is that will be years away if it ever happens.   Starliner will be down for TBD period (years) to fix the problems that they did not fix in the previous down period.   Then there would be another unmanned flight and another two person flight.   By then the ISS is about due to be deorbited.

Chinese want to take over Boeing airliner clone production [from stolen Boeing trade secrets]
Chinese want Boeing to fail
Chinese are sending a lot of money to FJB crime organization
Boeing pressured into DIE indoctrination by .gov
You know the rest

I am not seeing anything new other than dramatic "stranded" type articles.

This is the narrative:

"Boeing and NASA say they’ll consider landing dates once the spacewalks are over.

The capsule can remain at the space station for 45 days or longer if needed, Boeing said. In the meantime, mission managers continue to analyze the thruster trouble and helium leaks so they can resolve the problems before the next flight."

One of the spacewalks is on 2 July.

Reportedly the Starliner can stay in orbit/at the ISS for 45 days.  Launching on 5 June 2024 that puts 45 days around 20 July.  Back off four days for contingencies and another day for leaving the ISS that puts the last day at the ISS around 15 July.   Of course NASA can fudge their numbers.

Curious what limits Starliner to 45 days docked to the ISS.  Crew endurance/supplies?  Need the dock for something else (Progress/Soyuz/Dragon launch)?  Starliner turns into a pumkin?  

Just a complete uneducated, uninformed random ass guess. But… all the helium leaks out after 45 days?

I kinda like the mental image of it turning into a pumpkin though. Maybe the Boeing pressure suits turn into a set of pajamas?

Crew Dragon has logged more flight time than the Shuttle fleet. Most of that flight time it’s been docked to ISS though. But Shuttle logged quite a few flight hours while docked to ISS or Mir so there.

Well

If I was one of the astronauts on that heap and they scheduled the new reentry for July 4th I'd be VERY concerned.  

I have never seen the limiting factor.  Transparency is in short supply with this mission.

TOMORROW: Leadership from @NASA and @BoeingSpace will participate in a media teleconference at 2pm ET Friday, June 28, to provide an update on the agency’s Crew Flight Test, as well as station operations, spacesuits, and more.

More: https://t.co/FQTcMVl9BS pic.twitter.com/LmhdIO9tq5

— NASA Commercial Crew (@Commercial_Crew) June 27, 2024

Parasitic drain on the station electrical system? Re-supply mission needs the dock space?

Attached File

Boeing's Starliner spacecraft still doesn't have a landing date, NASA says

"A test campaign will start as soon as July 2 at the White Sands Test Facility in New Mexico to replicate how the thrusters were used during the flight, NASA commercial crew program manager Steve Stich said during a livestreamed update today (June 28) with reporters. The testing will take approximately two weeks, but that depends on what is found — and more analysis will be required afterwards. As such, NASA and Boeing do not yet have a landing date for Starliner.

"We're not going to target a specific date until we get that testing completed, and we look at the fault tree, and then we understand the path for it," Stich said."

That seems to suggest that the 45 day limit is flexible.

Boeing, NASA consider extending astronauts’ Starliner mission up to three months

" More than three weeks into a mission that was initially projected to last only days, the two astronauts piloting the inaugural crewed test flight of Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft do not know when they will return home.

Officials have repeatedly indicated that the Starliner — which encountered issues with helium leaks and thruster outages en route to the International Space Station in early June — will be safe to bring astronauts Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore home.

Still, Steve Stich, NASA’s Commercial Crew Program manager, said Friday that the space agency is considering extending the maximum length of Starliner’s mission from 45 days to 90 days. And there is no firm return date on the horizon."

I'd like to watch you clean up vomit in zero-G and then advocate drunks in space again. Just saying.

People throw up in microgravity without a drop of alcohol in their bodies. Its an occupational hazard.