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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:03:08 PM EDT
 Grumman Wildcat does STOL? Not bad! |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:05:43 PM EDT
[#1]
A for effort
Pretty damn cool to see that old girl try. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:06:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Made it a great carrier based aircraft
And that radial was hard to kill. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:10:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Now I wanna see the open class.
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:16:54 PM EDT
[#4]
I watched that live, took my Grandsons to the MAM in Va Beach for the STOL DRAGS . GREAT DAY was had by all.
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:32:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched that live, took my Grandsons to the MAM in Va Beach for the STOL DRAGS . GREAT DAY was had by all. Which aircraft won? |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:36:12 PM EDT
[#6]
FM-2
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:47:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Pretty sure it was a Yamaha Snowmobile engine powered Rans or KitFox.
The wind was not cooperating that day, only 5-10, gusting to 15ish. Not much help. But did see some pretty impressive flying out of a bone stock 172. The heavy cruiser class was cool too. 180/182/206. Had an Experimental Class (?) 206 with a big motor. That was cool. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:51:20 PM EDT
[#8]
A little more treadmill and it would have gone straight up
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:54:30 PM EDT
[#9]
I’ve seen Wildcats race in the Bronze Unlimited class at Reno. They didn’t do that well, even compared to a stock Mustang it was kinda reminiscent of a kid running along behind a bunch of much faster kids saying, “hey wait for meeeee!” Like something out of a cartoon.
Wonderful airplane though. They and their pilots always seem to be up for impossible challenges. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:58:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Cool.
I thought that was an RC model until I saw the guy walking next to it. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 3:01:52 PM EDT
[#11]
That old girl still has some life left
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Posted: 6/27/2024 3:02:16 PM EDT
[#12]
cool. what's different between a wildcat and a hellcat?
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Posted: 6/27/2024 3:02:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: cool. what's different between a wildcat and a hellcat? A lot  Hellcat is much larger, more fuel, better armament, better armor, and faster. They were both great fighters for their time and place though. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 3:04:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool. I thought that was an RC model until I saw the guy walking next to it. Good drone operator that day. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 3:05:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: cool. what's different between a wildcat and a hellcat? A lot Yeah, Hellcat was built with all the lessons learned from early war combat and examining a flying Zero. It was a bit of a surprise for the Japanese when it showed up, I tell you hwat.
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Posted: 6/27/2024 3:05:36 PM EDT
[#16]
and young men took on Zeros in it
many of both met salty graves 
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Posted: 6/27/2024 3:11:00 PM EDT
[#17]
That probably would've been a shorter takeoff and a shorter landing. If you had the wind like there would have been coming over the deck.
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Posted: 6/27/2024 3:11:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: cool. what's different between a wildcat and a hellcat? |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 3:11:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Now let's do a B-25
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Posted: 6/27/2024 3:52:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now let's do a B-25 At least the takeoff part. Have to turn the deck into the wind. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 3:59:32 PM EDT
[#21]
It would be interesting to see a Japanese Zero do that.
Much lighter aircraft with very low wing loading. Of course, there are not many original Zeros still flying. Because the lighter aircraft came from no armor or self sealing gas tanks ...  Bigger_Hammer 
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Posted: 6/27/2024 4:07:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be interesting to see a Japanese Zero do that. Much lighter aircraft with very low wing loading. Of course, there are not many original Zeros still flying. Because the lighter aircraft came from no armor or self sealing gas tanks ... [] There's a few. Though most of the flying ones have been re engined with American power plants. I got to see one in person some years ago. The undercarriage looks really spindly, it's mind boggling to me that they landed these things on carriers. As I often say, there isn't enough "plane" there for me to trust it. Here's an interview with a guy who flies one.  126 - Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" If the Japanese had as good an industrial base as the US and been able to crank out as good engines as the US did during the war then they probably would have built those safety features into their aircraft. Its something they seem to have some national shame over. At least according to movies like Godzilla Minus 1. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 4:16:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the Japanese had as good an industrial base as the US and been able to crank out as good engines as the US did during the war then they probably would have built those safety features into their aircraft. Its something they seem to have some national shame over. At least according to movies like Godzilla Minus 1. The Zero's lack of armor, etc, was a conscious decision to sacrifice everything for range and low speed maneuverability. At higher speeds, they couldn't turn either, which made them easy kills for Hellcats. The ultimate piston engine carrier fighter, the Bearcat, would be interesting in a competition like this. When I saw one at Oshkosh decades ago, it seemed like the tail wheel lifted as soon as he started his roll and he just hopped into the air from there. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 4:16:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: cool. what's different between a wildcat and a hellcat? |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 4:20:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a few. Though most of the flying ones have been re engined with American power plants. I got to see one in person some years ago. The undercarriage looks really spindly, it's mind boggling to me that they landed these things on carriers. As I often say, there isn't enough "plane" there for me to trust it. Here's an interview with a guy who flies one.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjSFQAKbLisIf the Japanese had as good an industrial base as the US and been able to crank out as good engines as the US could have during the war then they probably would have built those safety features into their aircraft. Its something they seem to have some national shame over. At least according to movies like Godzilla Minus 1. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It would be interesting to see a Japanese Zero do that. Much lighter aircraft with very low wing loading. Of course, there are not many original Zeros still flying. Because the lighter aircraft came from no armor or self sealing gas tanks ... [] There's a few. Though most of the flying ones have been re engined with American power plants. I got to see one in person some years ago. The undercarriage looks really spindly, it's mind boggling to me that they landed these things on carriers. As I often say, there isn't enough "plane" there for me to trust it. Here's an interview with a guy who flies one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjSFQAKbLisIf the Japanese had as good an industrial base as the US and been able to crank out as good engines as the US could have during the war then they probably would have built those safety features into their aircraft. Its something they seem to have some national shame over. At least according to movies like Godzilla Minus 1. The Japanese Navy put their emphasis (pre-war / early war) on Range & Maneuverability, which mean the trade off of "protection". "Why do I need armor if I am on my enemy's 6 peppering him with bullets?" For the low output Japanese engines of the time, the Zero was a marvel for the engineering of "just enough aircraft" without being "overbuilt" (AKA heavy & well protected) like a Wildcat or P-40. The Japanese Navy believed that superior range would allow them to land hard blows to their enemies, while remaining safely out of the opponents reach. But sometimes the Theory and the Reality don't exactly coincide. The late war Japanese Aircraft designs were very advanced & really performed well to balance out the Hellcat, Mustang and Corsair, but the late war change of fortunes with economic disruptions combined with devastation of Japanese cities & manufacturing facilities meant they could not be built well or in numbers. Add in hatred & rivalry between the services and the results were too little too late rumor was that the only enemy the Japanese Navy hated more than the Americans seemed to be the Japanese Army (and vice versa). Bigger_Hammer
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Posted: 6/27/2024 4:21:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Well they were designed to fly off a short carrier deck.
My dad once told me this was the one airplane he flew that could do a loop from level flight just by pulling back on the stick and keeping it coordinated (I think he was in an FM2 though). He said any of the others need to go pitch down a bit first to build up some airspeed. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 4:22:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Zero's lack of armor, etc, was a conscious decision to sacrifice everything for range and low speed maneuverability. At higher speeds, they couldn't turn either, which made them easy kills for Hellcats. The ultimate piston engine carrier fighter, the Bearcat, would be interesting in a competition like this. When I saw one at Oshkosh decades ago, it seemed like the tail wheel lifted as soon as he started his roll and he just hopped into the air from there. Oh the Bearcat is a fucking beast! Even in completely stock form sitting around an airport it seems like its anxiously waiting to leap into the sky and rip off heads. Raw fucking power in the tiniest package they could squeeze it into. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 4:22:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool. I thought that was an RC model until I saw the guy walking next to it. me too. thx for posting OP |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 4:27:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now I wanna see the open class. Not even close to what the F4 did. Still cool to watch though. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 4:33:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well they were designed to fly off a short carrier deck. My dad once told me this was the one airplane he flew that could do a loop from level flight just by pulling back on the stick and keeping it coordinated (I think he was in an FM2 though). He said any of the others need to go pitch down a bit first to build up some airspeed. The Wildcats / Martlets (in Royal Navy service) were kept in front line combat to the end of the war specifically aboard the little Escort Carriers because of their short deck performance. Wildcats strafed the Japanese Battleships & Cruisers from their "Jeep" carriers of Taffy 3 in the Philippines and hunted U-boats in the Atlantic to the end of the war. Bigger_Hammer
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Posted: 6/27/2024 4:39:37 PM EDT
[#31]
MOH recipient Butch O'Hare's Wildcat was recreated and put on display at O'hare Intl in Chicago if you ever have a layover there.....
 This plane was fished out of Lake Michigan where it ditched due to a training accident, and used to model the original plane. O'Hare received the MOH for shooting down 3 Betty's, and damaged 2 others, single handedly because his wingman's guns were jammed. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 4:58:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ultimate piston engine carrier fighter, the Bearcat... Sir, you misspelled 'Corsair.'  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 5:26:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Completely different aircraft. They share virtually nothing in common except manufacturer and half a name. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: cool. what's different between a wildcat and a hellcat? thanks for reply. just thought it was a revision/ mission thing. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 5:35:09 PM EDT
[#34]
I've seen a Piper Cub Bush model take off in 4 plane-lengths. They JUMP into the air.
This guy cheats with a headwind. But still.  Short Landing and Take-off Piper Cub |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 5:36:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sir, you misspelled 'Corsair.' https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/252069/13098862438c0e792d1d8233b9adf6169ba0c0f7-3252078.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The ultimate piston engine carrier fighter, the Bearcat... Sir, you misspelled 'Corsair.' https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/252069/13098862438c0e792d1d8233b9adf6169ba0c0f7-3252078.JPG I thought the Corsair performed poorly on carriers. Which is why the USMC used them from land bases. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 5:39:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MOH recipient Butch O'Hare's Wildcat was recreated and put on display at O'hare Intl in Chicago if you ever have a layover there..... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Grumman_F4F-3_Wildcat_-_Butch_O'Hare_White_F-15_Replica_at_ORD_1.jpg/800px-Grumman_F4F-3_Wildcat_-_Butch_O'Hare_White_F-15_Replica_at_ORD_1.jpg This plane was fished out of Lake Michigan where it ditched due to a training accident, and used to model the original plane. O'Hare received the MOH for shooting down 3 Betty's, and damaged 2 others, single handedly because his wingman's guns were jammed. Al Capone's Lawyer's kid.
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Posted: 6/27/2024 5:41:12 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the Corsair performed poorly on carriers. Which is why the USMC used them from land bases. It did, the British had to work out the kinks but they were used on US carriers later on in the war. They were utterly necessary to catch kamikazes. As for the Bearcat it showed up a little too late to affect the war. I can't remember if it saw combat or not. But they didn't build very many of them. I can't recall a comparison in combat prowess between the Corsair and Bearcat. Corsairs and Mustangs fought each other after WW2 in wars in Central America. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 5:44:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MOH recipient Butch O'Hare's Wildcat was recreated and put on display at O'hare Intl in Chicago if you ever have a layover there..... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Grumman_F4F-3_Wildcat_-_Butch_O'Hare_White_F-15_Replica_at_ORD_1.jpg/800px-Grumman_F4F-3_Wildcat_-_Butch_O'Hare_White_F-15_Replica_at_ORD_1.jpg This plane was fished out of Lake Michigan where it ditched due to a training accident, and used to model the original plane. O'Hare received the MOH for shooting down 3 Betty's, and damaged 2 others, single handedly because his wingman's guns were jammed. I had a delayed flight, and walked into it while changing gates. Beautiful. The only thing I can say was beautiful in Chicago, except for some random redhead checking out in front of me at the hotel. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 5:58:32 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 6/27/2024 8:57:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Completely different aircraft. They share virtually nothing in common except manufacturer and half a name. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: cool. what's different between a wildcat and a hellcat? The Hellcat was made to look like a Wildcat, however, only upsized a bit. The Japs didn't know what hit them when Hellcats started showing up for dinner. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 9:06:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Good thread!!!
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Posted: 6/27/2024 9:12:55 PM EDT
[#42]
ugliest plane of the war.
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Posted: 6/27/2024 9:14:30 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A for effort Pretty damn cool to see that old girl try. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 9:28:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a few. Though most of the flying ones have been re engined with American power plants. I got to see one in person some years ago. The undercarriage looks really spindly, it's mind boggling to me that they landed these things on carriers. As I often say, there isn't enough "plane" there for me to trust it. Here's an interview with a guy who flies one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjSFQAKbLisIf the Japanese had as good an industrial base as the US and been able to crank out as good engines as the US did during the war then they probably would have built those safety features into their aircraft. Its something they seem to have some national shame over. At least according to movies like Godzilla Minus 1. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It would be interesting to see a Japanese Zero do that. Much lighter aircraft with very low wing loading. Of course, there are not many original Zeros still flying. Because the lighter aircraft came from no armor or self sealing gas tanks ... [] There's a few. Though most of the flying ones have been re engined with American power plants. I got to see one in person some years ago. The undercarriage looks really spindly, it's mind boggling to me that they landed these things on carriers. As I often say, there isn't enough "plane" there for me to trust it. Here's an interview with a guy who flies one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjSFQAKbLisIf the Japanese had as good an industrial base as the US and been able to crank out as good engines as the US did during the war then they probably would have built those safety features into their aircraft. Its something they seem to have some national shame over. At least according to movies like Godzilla Minus 1. The pilots wanted maneuverability at all costs, lack of armor, ect was the result. It’s not unlike the decision of the Navy in the Treaty years to go for maximum airgroup instead of armored flight decks like the UK carriers. Eventually they could have both, that was the Midway class. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 11:12:45 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ugliest plane of the war. Really? The Wildcat was the ugliest? When there were gems like this?  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 11:17:11 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the Corsair performed poorly on carriers. Which is why the USMC used them from land bases. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The ultimate piston engine carrier fighter, the Bearcat... Sir, you misspelled 'Corsair.' https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/252069/13098862438c0e792d1d8233b9adf6169ba0c0f7-3252078.JPG I thought the Corsair performed poorly on carriers. Which is why the USMC used them from land bases. This is a bit of nuance. They weren't necessarily the best at carrier launches and landings, but they were able to do them. Also, once in the air, they were magnificent. I'm a bit biased, and I did not fly any of them. I do love discussions of them.
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Posted: 6/28/2024 7:14:40 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ugliest plane of the war. Although she is very ugly, and sounds like a T-28, the Wildcat is generally one of the most fun-to-fly warbirds (even with all of the much sexier looking and sounding alternatives). Steve Hinton still calls the F-86 the best warbird to fly...sadly, I've never had a chance to fly one. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 7:57:44 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FM-2 |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 8:11:01 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the Corsair performed poorly on carriers. Which is why the USMC used them from land bases. You had to be on the rudder all the time. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 8:13:20 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MOH recipient Butch O'Hare's Wildcat was recreated and put on display at O'hare Intl in Chicago if you ever have a layover there..... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Grumman_F4F-3_Wildcat_-_Butch_O'Hare_White_F-15_Replica_at_ORD_1.jpg/800px-Grumman_F4F-3_Wildcat_-_Butch_O'Hare_White_F-15_Replica_at_ORD_1.jpg This plane was fished out of Lake Michigan where it ditched due to a training accident, and used to model the original plane. O'Hare received the MOH for shooting down 3 Betty's, and damaged 2 others, single handedly because his wingman's guns were jammed. O’Hare was the wing section leader that tested John Thach’s infamous beam defense tactic in the Wildcat, the “Thach Weave” "Skipper, it really worked. I couldn't make any attack without seeing the nose of one of your airplanes pointed at me."[citation needed] |
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