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Posted: 9/19/2022 7:38:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the plaintiff claims he was playing with his holstered pistol and it fired, and his main evidence supporting his claim was a video of a cop exiting his cruiser and his P320 firing? Seems like rock solid proof to me. That's why it happens all the time at USPSA matches and in classes after all. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 9:32:01 PM EDT
[#2]
I don't know if it is still the case - but at one time it was not uncommon to use a sear arrangement that did not positively reset if you partially pulled the trigger. I know I had one at the range that I partially pulled the trigger (maybe just a little more than taking up the slack), then did not like my sight picture and released. I was curious, so I put it on safe, aimed at the target and pulled the trigger. Because the trigger had not reset, the safety did not reset - and it fired normally. Was a learning moment even though nothing bad actually happened. It taught me to be a lot more safe around that pistol.
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Posted: 9/19/2022 9:38:06 PM EDT
[#3]
I always get my firearms advice from lawyers who win popularity contests.
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Posted: 9/19/2022 9:47:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If their gun went off by itself, in the holster, without being manipulated, they deserved to be sued, and they deserved to lose. Their cutsomer deserves a payday.. Huge IF. If it’s a bad design that actually malfed how the complainant is saying it did, they need to pay. And fix a lot of P320s so that doesn’t happen again. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 9:47:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Aside from the Alex Baldwin defense, I am still not clear if these were issues with the "old" or "new" FCUs that Sig released.
All the videos (I have seen) are from several years back with (what appears to be) original P320s. Maybe I missed something in a post/link that gave the exact details. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 9:50:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If their gun went off by itself, in the holster, without being manipulated, they deserved to be sued, and they deserved to lose. Their cutsomer deserves a payday.. Bro I couldn't get them to cover shipping on a p938 that broke an extractor at 201 rounds. No way in hell are they gonna make things right on safety failure cases. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:07:48 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm not profeshunal enough for my shitty indian mim pewpew to "accidentally" discharge.
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:10:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Sig 320's are the best!
Did you know the Army has them now? Get the 3.0 model though, the 1.0 will blow your dick off! |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:11:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which didn't help at all in the early 1990s when Glocks went kapow without having anyone press the trigger. Guy at our department had one go bang while fully secured in a Safariland Model 070 level three retention holster while parked at the station. ETA: Fortunately for Glock, the internet didn't exist. Glock also pioneered the "upgrade" euphemism for "recall". ETA2: I'm still a Glock guy. Glock's only fix/recall/upgrade prior to the millenium was the nickel plated parts replacing the original unplated parts which caused a few firing pins to stick out of the breechface due to getting jammed by the firing pin safety. This would cause a slamfire. Several gun rags predicted it was the end of Glock. I am unaware of any Glock problem which caused the gun to fire without being manipulated. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:12:05 PM EDT
[#10]
I would like to see the holster that was used during this incident. The P320 can fit into Safariland P229 holsters, which obviously shouldn't be done. At the very least, I know for a fact the P229 holster hits the mag release of the P320 when bumped.
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:15:26 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:15:37 PM EDT
[#12]
How many hundreds of thousands of P320s does the US military currently own, how many billions of rounds have they fired, and how many thighs have been striped?
I think that would be pertinent. It would be very odd if all the accidents are happening with cops and none with the massive number of .mil units in current use. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:16:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bro I couldn't get them to cover shipping on a p938 that broke an extractor at 201 rounds. No way in hell are they gonna make things right on safety failure cases. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If their gun went off by itself, in the holster, without being manipulated, they deserved to be sued, and they deserved to lose. Their cutsomer deserves a payday.. Bro I couldn't get them to cover shipping on a p938 that broke an extractor at 201 rounds. No way in hell are they gonna make things right on safety failure cases. This does not mirror my customer service experience with sig. I had a prepaid label from them within 15 minutes of sending an email for a slide I got from them. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:17:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some inside the pants holsters I wear in the small of my back will flip topside out and the barrel is pointed directly my lower spine IF the pants or shorts are loose (when getting up from a seated position, sometimes the rails on the back of a chair will do it). I was just thinking about this the other day - what if the pistol went off! I usually carry a Px4SC which is a double/single with hammer drop de-cock safety plus it has a firing pin block. But, I have a lot of small short barreled striker fired pistols like a Taurus GX4, S&W Shield Plus, etc.. I was considering a Sig as well. I would consider a new belt, and KETO. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:25:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Ive left my heavily modified 320 cocked (unloaded) in the back of our sxs in its holster on its belt. With all the dumping one could imagine... Trigger has yet to not go click....
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:26:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Sig won the lawsuit, because there was not enough evidence to prove Sig was aware of the Roscommon incident prior to the lawsuit. However the lawsuit proves there is evidence of P320's discharging while holstered and not being manipulated. the video shows Richardson sitting in his cruiser on a highway before attempting to help a stranded motorist, with the officer having his holstered P320 pistol suddenly fire as he attempts to exit his vehicle. The strongest evidence introduced at trial that SIG Sauer knew or should have known that the P320 could potentially fire without an intentional trigger pull is the Roscommon incident," McCafferty wrote in the ruling. "However, there was no evidence introduced at trial to show that SIG Sauer was aware of the Roscommon incident at the relevant time: in December 2016, when Guay purchased his P320 in reliance upon the advertisement. https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/judge-sides-sig-sauer-accidental-shooting-lawsuit Your post is not of actual proof but rather stating there was evidence submitted as proof. Not a smoking gun. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:37:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many of these things did Big Army buy again? Big Army carries condition 3 (last I knew anyway). The guys who carry condition 0/1 are mostly carrying Glocks. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:44:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If a gun can malfunction because it has not been cleaned - whose fault is that. You would have to show me some extreme examples to convince me it’s even possible for it to be anyone BUT the manufacturer’s fault, that a gun can go off while fully holstered, because it had “not been cleaned”. 
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Posted: 9/19/2022 10:50:48 PM EDT
[#19]
I am vehemently against lawsuits against gun mfgs for mass shootings.
I am decidedly in favor of lawsuits against gun mfgs for defective product. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 11:03:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am vehemently against lawsuits against gun mfgs for mass shootings. I am decidedly in favor of lawsuits against gun mfgs for defective product. Amen, and we already know they shipped unsafe 320s. It’s certainly not impossible that there are other problems with the design. After SIG’s behavior, they aren’t entitled to the benefit of the doubt. ETA: A lot of gun companies have sold a lot of defective or unsafe weapons. SIG, Remington, Taurus, others I’m sure I’m forgetting, and the number of serious defects in quality that we just accept by comparison to power tools or home appliances is shocking. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 11:41:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Amen, and we already know they shipped unsafe 320s. It’s certainly not impossible that there are other problems with the design. After SIG’s behavior, they aren’t entitled to the benefit of the doubt. ETA: A lot of gun companies have sold a lot of defective or unsafe weapons. SIG, Remington, Taurus, others I’m sure I’m forgetting, and the number of serious defects in quality that we just accept by comparison to power tools or home appliances is shocking. Glock has had issues as well but don't you find it odd that the primary reason for Glock/Sig Leg is cops? |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 11:47:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glock has had issues as well but don't you find it odd that the primary reason for Glock/Sig Leg is cops? No, because cops carry more than most folks. They also holster and reholster more than most folks. For every 50 dudes on here talking about their EDC, only 1-2 actually carries all day, every day. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 11:50:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, because cops carry more than most folks. They also holster and reholster more than most folks. For every 50 dudes on here talking about their EDC, only 1-2 actually carries all day, every day. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Glock has had issues as well but don't you find it odd that the primary reason for Glock/Sig Leg is cops? No, because cops carry more than most folks. They also holster and reholster more than most folks. For every 50 dudes on here talking about their EDC, only 1-2 actually carries all day, every day. They are also known to not take responsibility when they fuck up. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 11:53:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is my p365 safe? 
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Posted: 9/19/2022 11:53:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This dude literally turned his P250 into a P320. The only difference in the FCU is they had to remove a little bit of material and drill some holes as you would expect for a reengineered design. There is a reason the P320 looks like there should be a hammer and the bore axis is so high. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The p250 and p320 internals are nothing alike. The empty fcu is similar, but that's it. The 250 is dao hammer fired and the 320 is sao striker fired. This dude literally turned his P250 into a P320. The only difference in the FCU is they had to remove a little bit of material and drill some holes as you would expect for a reengineered design. There is a reason the P320 looks like there should be a hammer and the bore axis is so high. Has the ATF weighed in and said it was a machine gun yet? |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 11:54:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many hundreds of thousands of P320s does the US military currently own, how many billions of rounds have they fired, and how many thighs have been striped? I think that would be pertinent. It would be very odd if all the accidents are happening with cops and none with the massive number of .mil units in current use. The cops carry their guns, the US Army does not. They are kept locked up away from ammo. Most pistol quals they don’t even allow the troops to draw from a holster. The unloaded guns go straight back to the arms room. |
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Posted: 9/19/2022 11:59:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are also known to not take responsibility when they fuck up. Like when? I’m familiar with a few cop NDs and I’ve never seen any that didn’t end in discipline. Are there a high number of cops shooting themselves with Sigs? If there are (I’m not aware of it either way), why aren’t they having that problem with glocks or M&Ps? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:04:59 AM EDT
[#28]
I'm still pissed at SIG USA and Cohen for killing off all the great German P series pistols I grew up shooting. They should stick to what they do best now, making challenge coins and importing shity Chicom optics.
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:05:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ticking time bomb 320 is the peebool of guns. They won't hurt you.....until they do! |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 12:19:53 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like when? I’m familiar with a few cop NDs and I’ve never seen any that didn’t end in discipline. Are there a high number of cops shooting themselves with Sigs? If there are (I’m not aware of it either way), why aren’t they having that problem with glocks or M&Ps? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They are also known to not take responsibility when they fuck up. Like when? I’m familiar with a few cop NDs and I’ve never seen any that didn’t end in discipline. Are there a high number of cops shooting themselves with Sigs? If there are (I’m not aware of it either way), why aren’t they having that problem with glocks or M&Ps? "It went off on it's own" is not taking responsibility for their fuck up. The dept head takes responsibility for them. Cop sues Glock Cop sues Smith and Wesson |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:07:46 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some inside the pants holsters I wear in the small of my back will flip topside out and the barrel is pointed directly my lower spine IF the pants or shorts are loose |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:32:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the plaintiff claims he was playing with his holstered pistol and it fired, and his main evidence supporting his claim was a video of a cop exiting his cruiser and his P320 firing? Seems like rock solid proof to me. That's why it happens all the time at USPSA matches and in classes after all. Yep. I know a LEO that is in on a lawsuit agaisnt SIG. I know, and all of his peers know exactly what happened. Let's just say the gun didn't put a hole in his ass by itself. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:39:56 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Big Army carries condition 3 (last I knew anyway). The guys who carry condition 0/1 are mostly carrying Glocks. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many of these things did Big Army buy again? Big Army carries condition 3 (last I knew anyway). The guys who carry condition 0/1 are mostly carrying Glocks. These guys must have tons of issues since they have had them for a few years. They obviously never shoot and give zero fucks about safety.    |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 1:52:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Why didn't Sig know about this?
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:02:10 AM EDT
[#35]
Why does this only happen to cops?
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:04:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would like to see the holster that was used during this incident. The P320 can fit into Safariland P229 holsters, which obviously shouldn't be done. At the very least, I know for a fact the P229 holster hits the mag release of the P320 when bumped. The Canadian military actually had their P320s "suddenly going off" in holsters. Turned out it was because they were using P226 holsters. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:07:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was no evidence produced that said the gun was unsafe. All the judge said was that the plaintiffs main piece of evidence was not seen by Sig until 3 years after the plaintiffs incident occurred. The main piece of evidence, was a video of a 320 going off in the holster, after being bumped against a car. Yes Sig won because apparently Sig was “unaware” of the issues until 2019. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:10:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many hundreds of thousands of P320s does the US military currently own, how many billions of rounds have they fired, and how many thighs have been striped? I think that would be pertinent. It would be very odd if all the accidents are happening with cops and none with the massive number of .mil units in current use. Military has a manual safety, and pistols are carried with an empty chamber. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:12:02 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Canadian military actually had their P320s "suddenly going off" in holsters. Turned out it was because they were using P226 holsters. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I would like to see the holster that was used during this incident. The P320 can fit into Safariland P229 holsters, which obviously shouldn't be done. At the very least, I know for a fact the P229 holster hits the mag release of the P320 when bumped. The Canadian military actually had their P320s "suddenly going off" in holsters. Turned out it was because they were using P226 holsters. It was a JTF-2 guy. The investigation determined that he was using a modified P226 holster. Again, not the guns fault. It was a huge stink at the time and all the Glock fanboyz jizzing themselves with multiple threads here about it. Guess what they are issued now after all that? Yep, P320s. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:14:45 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Military has a manual safety, and pistols are carried with an empty chamber. See my post above. Theirs don't have a safety and they for sure don't carry on an empty chamber. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:15:45 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why does this only happen to cops? Maybe due to most officers carrying P320's without a manuel safety and a round chambered. Also we carry and handle handguns several times a day. The mechanical issues with the gun may have been fixed now but originally as first released for public sale they were unsafe and Sig knew it. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:21:13 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The main piece of evidence, was a video of a 320 going off in the holster, after being bumped against a car. Yes Sig won because apparently Sig was “unaware” of the issues until 2019. Video? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:49:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If their gun went off by itself, in the holster, without being manipulated, they deserved to be sued, and they deserved to lose. Their cutsomer deserves a payday.. That's not what happened to this guy. He was removing his holster with the gun in it. The guy that was exiting his cruiser was someone else. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:55:45 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buy a better belt, you are doing it wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Some inside the pants holsters I wear in the small of my back will flip topside out and the barrel is pointed directly my lower spine IF the pants or shorts are loose And don't carry a gun small of back. What if you just fall on it and slam a hard metal object into your spine? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 2:59:02 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is arguably a new and different Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah. That's really bad. At least now we know for certain that the p320 did go off on its own. All the people who said otherwise were wrong. My question is, did they (sig) fix the issue? Or is this still an issue? FIXT Should have bought SP2022s instead. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 3:02:45 AM EDT
[#46]
Is there video of this one firing in a holster or what?
Is there video of any P320 firing in a holster untouched? |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:17:02 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glock has had issues as well but don't you find it odd that the primary reason for Glock/Sig Leg is cops? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Amen, and we already know they shipped unsafe 320s. It’s certainly not impossible that there are other problems with the design. After SIG’s behavior, they aren’t entitled to the benefit of the doubt. ETA: A lot of gun companies have sold a lot of defective or unsafe weapons. SIG, Remington, Taurus, others I’m sure I’m forgetting, and the number of serious defects in quality that we just accept by comparison to power tools or home appliances is shocking. Glock has had issues as well but don't you find it odd that the primary reason for Glock/Sig Leg is cops? I’m no Glock fanboy and don’t carry one, and oh yes they’ve had problems over the years. The tendency in the gun community with Glock’s issues was to blame the end users, and now it’s the same with SIG’s. Police incidents make news in a way that some civilian schmuck who shoots a hole in the floor or his backside doesn’t. And yes, police carry and handle their pistols more than most. |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:31:54 AM EDT
[#48]
Yet no one has been able to replicate the failure.
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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:34:24 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. I know a LEO that is in on a lawsuit agaisnt SIG. I know, and all of his peers know exactly what happened. Let's just say the gun didn't put a hole in his ass by itself. username appropriate for #1 SIG FAN |
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Posted: 9/20/2022 9:40:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: username appropriate for #1 SIG FAN Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yep. I know a LEO that is in on a lawsuit agaisnt SIG. I know, and all of his peers know exactly what happened. Let's just say the gun didn't put a hole in his ass by itself. username appropriate for #1 SIG FAN Holy shit! You're smart. Truly an anomaly for GD! 
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