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Posted: 6/21/2022 11:29:28 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 6/21/2022 11:31:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#2]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 6/21/2022 11:58:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BobRoberts]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: I keep hearing that things are going to be different later in the summer. I'm not yet convinced that isn't some kind of hopeful thinking. What is going to happen later in the summer that will give ukraine the ability to do what they can't do now? And, when? Its largely based on the fact that Ukraine will have greatly expanded their forces and integrated more western systems into their formations. Even then I think we will largely see the same back and forth we have been seeing for the last month or so. Russia will make gains in the Donnass while Ukraine infiltrates and forces the Russians to fall back in South and up North. I dont believe we will see any culminating battle that decides the war, but more of return to artillery and small unit actions of the last 6th years. |
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AB, CAN
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Posted: 6/22/2022 12:56:43 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: 11 minute video of Russians running and hiding from their ammo depot going off from the Ukrainian Tochka-u ballistic missile at Krasny Luch. Sort of like a fireworks factory explosion, but with mlrs rockets.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdGA88Eo8vsDo they have overhead video of that ammo dump going up? |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 1:02:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: I keep hearing that things are going to be different later in the summer. I'm not yet convinced that isn't some kind of hopeful thinking. What is going to happen later in the summer that will give ukraine the ability to do what they can't do now? And, when? Have thousands of troops with 6-8 weeks of training, and others with training on weapons that are still making their way to the battle. Learning how to use the new equipment well enough that they can make accurate strikes with it. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 4:18:33 AM EDT
[#6]
what to make of this?
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Posted: 6/22/2022 5:33:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GySgt_D]
[#7]
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Posted: 6/22/2022 6:21:49 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TTTSNB: what to make of this?
What do you mean? nothing special really, russians know if they fuck with any nato member that article 5 will be upheld and there will be hell to pay. nothing new at all. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 6:22:43 AM EDT
[#9]
another documentary of the helo flights into the mariupol steel plant. balls of steel amongst those men.
 ??????? ? ?????????. ????????? ??????? ???????????? ?????? "?????" ?? ??? ?? ? ???????? ????????? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 6:52:07 AM EDT
[#10]
This is the aftermath of the attack on the ammo dump in Krasni Luch
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OLXefP60ToU&t=38s |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 7:04:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TTTSNB: what to make of this?
Lithuania is in the right and the us is just saying they've got their back for enforcing what Russia agreed to? |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 7:18:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BobRoberts: Its largely based on the fact that Ukraine will have greatly expanded their forces and integrated more western systems into their formations. Even then I think we will largely see the same back and forth we have been seeing for the last month or so. Russia will make gains in the Donnass while Ukraine infiltrates and forces the Russians to fall back in South and up North. I dont believe we will see any culminating battle that decides the war, but more of return to artillery and small unit actions of the last 6th years. Won't they be running out of manpower? Manpower isn't a resource they have without limits. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 7:26:17 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 6/22/2022 7:50:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By devildog93: Won't they be running out of manpower? Manpower isn't a resource they have without limits. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By devildog93: Originally Posted By BobRoberts: Its largely based on the fact that Ukraine will have greatly expanded their forces and integrated more western systems into their formations. Even then I think we will largely see the same back and forth we have been seeing for the last month or so. Russia will make gains in the Donnass while Ukraine infiltrates and forces the Russians to fall back in South and up North. I dont believe we will see any culminating battle that decides the war, but more of return to artillery and small unit actions of the last 6th years. Won't they be running out of manpower? Manpower isn't a resource they have without limits. The Ukrainians? No, their population could probably support an army of at least 5 million, assuming there was a full mobilization. France in WW1 had a similar population as Ukraine and had an army larger than that, even if you exclude soldiers from the colonies. By the end of the war France had lost over a million soldiers and was still able to function as a nation. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 8:15:43 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GySgt_D:
That didn't look like a loitering munition to me. It looked like a regular UAS that was carrying a warhead and dove right into the target on command. There are several airframes that look just like that one so it's hard to say which one it is. While it seems to have been effective with a flammable target, one has to wonder if using a potential ISR asset as a pseudo-cruise missile is an effective use of the platform. Evidently they thought it was. I wonder if that plant was making diesel that all the rooskie vehicles/tanks/etc are using. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:13:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: That didn't look like a loitering munition to me. It looked like a regular UAS that was carrying a warhead and dove right into the target on command. There are several airframes that look just like that one so it's hard to say which one it is. While it seems to have been effective with a flammable target, one has to wonder if using a potential ISR asset as a pseudo-cruise missile is an effective use of the platform. Evidently they thought it was. I wonder if that plant was making diesel that all the rooskie vehicles/tanks/etc are using. They are saying it could be this:   Chinese made, and long range. Expendable and can reach far apparently. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:41:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Bluegrasshopper]
[#17]
It's a $10k Chinese cargo drone that you can buy off Alibaba.com
 Sorry, Dupe |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:47:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AgeOne]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bluegrasshopper: It's a $10k Chinese cargo drone that you can buy off Alibaba.com https://s.alicdn.com/@sc04/kf/H7879ac93ad4340aeb9cdad646e2f97d4S.jpg_300x300.jpg Sorry, Dupe these cheap drones are gonna be hell on air defense systems. so many decoys, so many will be shot down empty, easy to knock down but impossible to discriminate or catch them all. bet this one was detected, but was ignored due to its size. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:54:45 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:56:50 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: I keep hearing that things are going to be different later in the summer. I'm not yet convinced that isn't some kind of hopeful thinking. What is going to happen later in the summer that will give ukraine the ability to do what they can't do now? And, when? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Ukraine has said weeks before that they expected to withdraw from Severodonetsk if need be and use the high ground across the river to shell the Russians. The offensives so far have been exploitation of Russian weak areas, where it has forced them to move what they have to various regions to plug up the gaps that are being exploited by Ukraine. I would not expect any real major offensives to take back land until later this summer. The above doesn't exactly seem rosy for the Russians. I keep hearing that things are going to be different later in the summer. I'm not yet convinced that isn't some kind of hopeful thinking. What is going to happen later in the summer that will give ukraine the ability to do what they can't do now? And, when? Time to actually broardly fielding the more complex systems was longer than I expected. The training of the trianers here in was at least 3+ weeks and than those trianers have to go back and train the operators. I know not many Ukrainians speak english or know the western alphabet so could be difficult take longer than expected. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:57:23 AM EDT
[#21]
A little different perspective, when war gets personal.
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/world-championships-ukrainian-mykhailo-romanchuk-pleads-to-maintain-ban-on-russia/?fbclid=IwAR35WvpLC5ibgPtX3H5TnaozGrrAcIKw9p6G4nJ3lprCJVxrWCbRA6V2hmw |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:03:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: They are saying it could be this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FV2bPbOXEAECN3K?format=jpg&name=900x900 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FV2c42ZWQAAb4H7?format=png&name=small Chinese made, and long range. Expendable and can reach far apparently. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By planemaker: That didn't look like a loitering munition to me. It looked like a regular UAS that was carrying a warhead and dove right into the target on command. There are several airframes that look just like that one so it's hard to say which one it is. While it seems to have been effective with a flammable target, one has to wonder if using a potential ISR asset as a pseudo-cruise missile is an effective use of the platform. Evidently they thought it was. I wonder if that plant was making diesel that all the rooskie vehicles/tanks/etc are using. They are saying it could be this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FV2bPbOXEAECN3K?format=jpg&name=900x900 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FV2c42ZWQAAb4H7?format=png&name=small Chinese made, and long range. Expendable and can reach far apparently. How big is it? It doesn't really look that large. I suppose if it can carry a 10lb explosive, that's good enough. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:04:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bluegrasshopper: It's a $10k Chinese cargo drone that you can buy off Alibaba.com https://s.alicdn.com/@sc04/kf/H7879ac93ad4340aeb9cdad646e2f97d4S.jpg_300x300.jpg Sorry, Dupe Well, that cargo got delivered. I hope Ukraine bought a bunch of these. I'm sure Putin called Xi a while ago to stop drone sales. Anyone know the max weight for payload/package this thing can deliver? |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:13:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: How big is it? It doesn't really look that large. I suppose if it can carry a 10lb explosive, that's good enough. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By planemaker: That didn't look like a loitering munition to me. It looked like a regular UAS that was carrying a warhead and dove right into the target on command. There are several airframes that look just like that one so it's hard to say which one it is. While it seems to have been effective with a flammable target, one has to wonder if using a potential ISR asset as a pseudo-cruise missile is an effective use of the platform. Evidently they thought it was. I wonder if that plant was making diesel that all the rooskie vehicles/tanks/etc are using. They are saying it could be this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FV2bPbOXEAECN3K?format=jpg&name=900x900 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FV2c42ZWQAAb4H7?format=png&name=small Chinese made, and long range. Expendable and can reach far apparently. How big is it? It doesn't really look that large. I suppose if it can carry a 10lb explosive, that's good enough. I can't find the info, but apparently it went 100km behind enemy lines without being intercepted by advanced Russian air defense systems. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:13:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By devildog93: Won't they be running out of manpower? Manpower isn't a resource they have without limits. No, they will not run out of manpower any time soon. It’s training and equipping that is critical. Quick comparison is that Ukraine today has a population roughly equal to the UK in 1914 (~43 million). By end 1918 the UK fielded an army of 3.8 million men - this does NOT count Canadian, ANZAC, Indian troops - just the British Army raised from England and Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. They had 2.3 million casualties from all causes prior to the end of the war, so the actual fielded force in total between 1914 and 1918 was well in excess of 5 million, from the same size population base as the Ukraine of today. War and logistics are very, very different today, of course. But the number of able men the Ukraine forces can mobilize is not a critical issue. The speed and effectiveness with which it can be done, and equipping them, is the issue. If Russia wants to put Ukraine down and eliminate Ukraine as a threat entirely, it is clear now they are looking at a long war and Russia may in fact need some whole-number multiple of 5 million men to do so over the next few years. Without going to a total-war footing, it’s Russia that is facing a manpower crisis. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:13:39 AM EDT
[#26]
25kg +
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:14:06 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:16:32 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bluegrasshopper: It's a $10k Chinese cargo drone that you can buy off Alibaba.com https://s.alicdn.com/@sc04/kf/H7879ac93ad4340aeb9cdad646e2f97d4S.jpg_300x300.jpg Sorry, Dupe Says 800km range and 50kg payload. Communications would be the limiting factor...wonder if this had a pre-programmed flight path. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Satellite-Connection-800km-long-range-Drone_62021900164.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.57c44146sJuEbB |
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USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:21:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TTTSNB: what to make of this?
It means that Russia has been playing the “cornered nuclear superpower” angle for all it’s worth in hopes of bluffing/intimidating their way out of a catastrophic mistake. Fuck them. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:24:56 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Billy_Ringo: A little different perspective, when war gets personal. https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/world-championships-ukrainian-mykhailo-romanchuk-pleads-to-maintain-ban-on-russia/?fbclid=IwAR35WvpLC5ibgPtX3H5TnaozGrrAcIKw9p6G4nJ3lprCJVxrWCbRA6V2hmw |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:27:31 AM EDT
[#31]
Looks like they can build it to your spec.
https://muginuav.en.alibaba.com/product/1600357079738-903768346/Mugin_5_Pro_5000mm_Carbon_Fiber_Uav_Platform_China_Flir_Mediacl_Autelrobotics_Uav.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.5a5325d36tzNdU |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:29:58 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fallen: The Ukrainians? No, their population could probably support an army of at least 5 million, assuming there was a full mobilization. France in WW1 had a similar population as Ukraine and had an army larger than that, even if you exclude soldiers from the colonies. By the end of the war France had lost over a million soldiers and was still able to function as a nation. Using France as a basis for a good armed force may be a poor, but apt example. Sure, they might conscript millions, but quality will suffer. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:35:07 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Not seeing a 10k option, but this one is 100k and looks similar. Says 800km range and 50kg payload. Communications would be the limiting factor...wonder if this had a pre-programmed flight path. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Satellite-Connection-800km-long-range-Drone_62021900164.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.57c44146sJuEbB Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Bluegrasshopper: It's a $10k Chinese cargo drone that you can buy off Alibaba.com https://s.alicdn.com/@sc04/kf/H7879ac93ad4340aeb9cdad646e2f97d4S.jpg_300x300.jpg Sorry, Dupe Says 800km range and 50kg payload. Communications would be the limiting factor...wonder if this had a pre-programmed flight path. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Satellite-Connection-800km-long-range-Drone_62021900164.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.57c44146sJuEbB If they can’t control via satellite, the most effective method would seem to be to launch from Ukraine on a pre-programmed flight path to the target, then have a covert operator near the target take over manual control for target recon and attack. It wouldn’t be worth it to just launch it to GPS coordinates and have it hit a lamp-post instead of a vulnerable part of the refinery. Operator then bugs out for the next target in a pre-planned list. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:43:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Not really. How long do you have to train someone to shoot at AK out of a trench at Russians, while your NCO/FSO calls in artillery?
MOUT is just grenading houses before you hose them with bullets. Not really hard, especially when you're fighting other conscripts. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:56:30 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By last_crusader: Not really. How long do you have to train someone to shoot at AK out of a trench at Russians, while your NCO/FSO calls in artillery? MOUT is just grenading houses before you hose them with bullets. Not really hard, especially when you're fighting other conscripts. If you want them to be halfway decent at anything, two months. Add in some complicated missile systems and company operations, three plus. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:08:51 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Not seeing a 10k option, but this one is 100k and looks similar. Says 800km range and 50kg payload. Communications would be the limiting factor...wonder if this had a pre-programmed flight path. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Satellite-Connection-800km-long-range-Drone_62021900164.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.57c44146sJuEbB Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Bluegrasshopper: It's a $10k Chinese cargo drone that you can buy off Alibaba.com https://s.alicdn.com/@sc04/kf/H7879ac93ad4340aeb9cdad646e2f97d4S.jpg_300x300.jpg Sorry, Dupe Says 800km range and 50kg payload. Communications would be the limiting factor...wonder if this had a pre-programmed flight path. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Satellite-Connection-800km-long-range-Drone_62021900164.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.57c44146sJuEbB It most likely did. That way, it wouldn't be possible to jam the link. It's not like an oil refinery is mobile. As long as they can get good coordinates, it's pretty easy to set up a slow flying fixed-wing to dive to a very specific spot. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:29:49 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: So how are the Russians going to get supplies to kalingrad when the winter comes? The well-proven method is to dig out their lend-lease C-47s and fly them into Koenigsberg, dropping candy to the children as they wave to them. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:33:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Not seeing a 10k option, but this one is 100k and looks similar. Says 800km range and 50kg payload. Communications would be the limiting factor...wonder if this had a pre-programmed flight path. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Satellite-Connection-800km-long-range-Drone_62021900164.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.57c44146sJuEbB 
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:37:36 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By devildog93: Using France as a basis for a good armed force may be a poor, but apt example. Sure, they might conscript millions, but quality will suffer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By devildog93: Originally Posted By Fallen: The Ukrainians? No, their population could probably support an army of at least 5 million, assuming there was a full mobilization. France in WW1 had a similar population as Ukraine and had an army larger than that, even if you exclude soldiers from the colonies. By the end of the war France had lost over a million soldiers and was still able to function as a nation. Using France as a basis for a good armed force may be a poor, but apt example. Sure, they might conscript millions, but quality will suffer. WW1 era France and UK are terrible comparisons to modern Ukraine. They were both economic and industrial powerhouses with large colonial empires to draw from. Neither had their general population flee the country like Ukraine has. UKR has no hope winning a drawn out war. Just a matter of how many die on both sides and how much territory changes hands. Any thoughts of retaking the 2014 borders are fantasy. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:52:24 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vahog: The well-proven method is to dig out their lend-lease C-47s and fly them into Koenigsberg, dropping candy to the children as they wave to them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vahog: Originally Posted By stgdz: So how are the Russians going to get supplies to kalingrad when the winter comes? The well-proven method is to dig out their lend-lease C-47s and fly them into Koenigsberg, dropping candy to the children as they wave to them. They have an awfully nice sea port |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:57:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nodak_Cruffler: WW1 era France and UK are terrible comparisons to modern Ukraine. They were both economic and industrial powerhouses with large colonial empires to draw from. Neither had their general population flee the country like Ukraine has. UKR has no hope winning a drawn out war. Just a matter of how many die on both sides and how much territory changes hands. Any thoughts of retaking the 2014 borders are fantasy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nodak_Cruffler: Originally Posted By devildog93: Originally Posted By Fallen: The Ukrainians? No, their population could probably support an army of at least 5 million, assuming there was a full mobilization. France in WW1 had a similar population as Ukraine and had an army larger than that, even if you exclude soldiers from the colonies. By the end of the war France had lost over a million soldiers and was still able to function as a nation. Using France as a basis for a good armed force may be a poor, but apt example. Sure, they might conscript millions, but quality will suffer. WW1 era France and UK are terrible comparisons to modern Ukraine. They were both economic and industrial powerhouses with large colonial empires to draw from. Neither had their general population flee the country like Ukraine has. UKR has no hope winning a drawn out war. Just a matter of how many die on both sides and how much territory changes hands. Any thoughts of retaking the 2014 borders are fantasy. Ukraine's not facing Germany either. Russia has the same problems with industrial capacity shrinking and little ability to produce new heavy weapons. At least Ukraine is able to get arms from international sources. Population isn't a factor until you get to the point of millions of deaths. A long drawn out war doesn't favor either side. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:59:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nodak_Cruffler: WW1 era France and UK are terrible comparisons to modern Ukraine. They were both economic and industrial powerhouses with large colonial empires to draw from. Neither had their general population flee the country like Ukraine has. UKR has no hope winning a drawn out war. Just a matter of how many die on both sides and how much territory changes hands. Any thoughts of retaking the 2014 borders are fantasy. Them being industrial detracts from your argument since it means some of their potential soldiers were working in industry. Ukraines elderly, young and female fled, the men were banned from leaving and largely complied. 200,000 ukrainian men working abroad returned to the country. They are now training through a backlog of volunteers and are now working with Europeans to start basic training camps in Poland to try and work through the wait list. Russia will have to mobilize if they are to outlast Ukraine, and that carries risks for them politically. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 12:22:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: What do you mean? nothing special really, russians know if they fuck with any nato member that article 5 will be upheld and there will be hell to pay. nothing new at all. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By TTTSNB: what to make of this?
What do you mean? nothing special really, russians know if they fuck with any nato member that article 5 will be upheld and there will be hell to pay. nothing new at all. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 12:34:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By Fallen: Ukraine's not facing Germany either. Russia has the same problems with industrial capacity shrinking and little ability to produce new heavy weapons. At least Ukraine is able to get arms from international sources. Population isn't a factor until you get to the point of millions of deaths. A long drawn out war doesn't favor either side. Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Them being industrial detracts from your argument since it means some of their potential soldiers were working in industry. Ukraines elderly, young and female fled, the men were banned from leaving and largely complied. 200,000 ukrainian men working abroad returned to the country. They are now training through a backlog of volunteers and are now working with Europeans to start basic training camps in Poland to try and work through the wait list. Russia will have to mobilize if they are to outlast Ukraine, and that carries risks for them politically. All I'm saying is just because you have 5 million military aged men does not mean you can field 5 million soldiers, even on rotation. Like it or not, Russia is better able to sustain a grinding war. Ukraine needs to find a way to peace before the West gets tired of a money pit and their people get tired of dying with no gain. The last decade or so indicates to me that their uniting behind Zelensky is temporary. He's done far better than anyone expected, but if you continue the WW1 comparison remember that nearly every country saw radical change in government during or immediately after the war. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 12:37:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By devildog93: Won't they be running out of manpower? Manpower isn't a resource they have without limits. They plan on having a 1 million man army. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 12:42:12 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nodak_Cruffler: All I'm saying is just because you have 5 million military aged men does not mean you can field 5 million soldiers, even on rotation. Like it or not, Russia is better able to sustain a grinding war. Ukraine needs to find a way to peace before the West gets tired of a money pit and their people get tired of dying with no gain. The last decade or so indicates to me that their uniting behind Zelensky is temporary. He's done far better than anyone expected, but if you continue the WW1 comparison remember that nearly every country saw radical change in government during or immediately after the war. This is not a patriotic war in the eyes of the younger Russians. They have their eyes open and know what is going on. I know there is a strong opposition to this thing and it would seem that internal strife is on the horizon. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 12:47:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: If they can’t control via satellite, the most effective method would seem to be to launch from Ukraine on a pre-programmed flight path to the target, then have a covert operator near the target take over manual control for target recon and attack. It wouldn’t be worth it to just launch it to GPS coordinates and have it hit a lamp-post instead of a vulnerable part of the refinery. Operator then bugs out for the next target in a pre-planned list. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Bluegrasshopper: It's a $10k Chinese cargo drone that you can buy off Alibaba.com https://s.alicdn.com/@sc04/kf/H7879ac93ad4340aeb9cdad646e2f97d4S.jpg_300x300.jpg Sorry, Dupe Says 800km range and 50kg payload. Communications would be the limiting factor...wonder if this had a pre-programmed flight path. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Satellite-Connection-800km-long-range-Drone_62021900164.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.57c44146sJuEbB If they can’t control via satellite, the most effective method would seem to be to launch from Ukraine on a pre-programmed flight path to the target, then have a covert operator near the target take over manual control for target recon and attack. It wouldn’t be worth it to just launch it to GPS coordinates and have it hit a lamp-post instead of a vulnerable part of the refinery. Operator then bugs out for the next target in a pre-planned list. Ukraine just bought a satellite already in space for tactical and surveillance use.. so there's that |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 12:50:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vahog: The well-proven method is to dig out their lend-lease C-47s and fly them into Koenigsberg, dropping candy to the children as they wave to them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vahog: Originally Posted By stgdz: So how are the Russians going to get supplies to kalingrad when the winter comes? The well-proven method is to dig out their lend-lease C-47s and fly them into Koenigsberg, dropping candy to the children as they wave to them. I saw what you did there. 
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Posted: 6/22/2022 12:52:55 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agillig: Do they REALLY know that and believe it? I tend to think most of Europe will find a way to weasle out of it, and with Biden at the helm in the US... I can see people saying things like "Lithuania isn't worth World War 3" or whatever. Article 5 is great...until no one decides they're interested in getting involved. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agillig: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By TTTSNB: what to make of this?
What do you mean? nothing special really, russians know if they fuck with any nato member that article 5 will be upheld and there will be hell to pay. nothing new at all. I don't know where your getting that and how you can think that..but article 5 is not an "option" for nato members...there is no getting out of it like you say. It's thr backbone of NATO. And it won't be broke. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 12:55:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Ukraine just bought a satellite already in space for tactical and surveillance use.. so there's that Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Bluegrasshopper: It's a $10k Chinese cargo drone that you can buy off Alibaba.com https://s.alicdn.com/@sc04/kf/H7879ac93ad4340aeb9cdad646e2f97d4S.jpg_300x300.jpg Sorry, Dupe Says 800km range and 50kg payload. Communications would be the limiting factor...wonder if this had a pre-programmed flight path. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Satellite-Connection-800km-long-range-Drone_62021900164.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.57c44146sJuEbB If they can’t control via satellite, the most effective method would seem to be to launch from Ukraine on a pre-programmed flight path to the target, then have a covert operator near the target take over manual control for target recon and attack. It wouldn’t be worth it to just launch it to GPS coordinates and have it hit a lamp-post instead of a vulnerable part of the refinery. Operator then bugs out for the next target in a pre-planned list. Ukraine just bought a satellite already in space for tactical and surveillance use.. so there's that Weapons have gotten so good that targeting for fixed points on the ground does not require terminal refinement. |
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