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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:35:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theskuh: lol, what are you supposed to do with them. You ether shoot them or make it so they can't fight. This isn't some gentleman's war. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theskuh: Originally Posted By binthere: WTF is wrong with some of you? Propaganda is working your emotions like fiddle. Killing an enemy is one thing. Fantasizing about torturing them? Then you are going get all worked up about the enemy indiscriminately shooting civilians? Well, no shit that's going to happen. Thats a deep dark road you don't need to go down and that you can't always come back from.  lol, what are you supposed to do with them. You ether shoot them or make it so they can't fight. This isn't some gentleman's war. I'm strongly of the opinion that if your homeland is being invaded by an overwhelming force, you don't bother taking prisoners. Just shoot them all, weapons in their hands or not. There are no rules in war if you want to survive. Trying to guard and care for prisoners is a waste of resources when you are handing out rifles to everyone from 18-60 years old. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:35:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ErikS: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/255381/0302CA13-D48A-4186-AD7C-E24A4CDF4D5E-2292756.jpg With his faults he was still the kind of leader we need now.  
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:36:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: merick]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pred: Can someone explain this SWIFT stuff? Its the network for international bank transactions. TLDR for Russia all western finance system would be like atms out of network. Downside risk is they then by necessity set up their own system to do transactions with China, Saudi Arabia, et al, which would severely undercut usd as world reserve currency. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:36:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pred: Can someone explain this SWIFT stuff? It's like Paypal for nation states. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:37:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MBentz: Judging by the photo of the guy loading the magazine, he is a walking accident waiting to happen. I’m surprised at the amount of 5.45 AKs. Figured they’d be 7.62. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MBentz: Originally Posted By realwar: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/16/54656131-10552157-image-a-35_1645806259426.jpg Former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko holds up a Kalashnikov while being interviewed on Friday. He has joined the civilian territorial defense on the streets of Ukraine and says there are lines of people seeking to help but that they don't have enough arms https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/18/54659511-10552157-image-a-56_1645812367610.jpg Poroshenko shared photos on Instagram with other civilians who have signed up to join the territorial defense teams https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659077-10552157-image-a-42_1645811775870.jpg Territorial defense fighters test weapons and ammunition in Kiev, Ukraine, 25 February 2022. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659105-10552157-image-a-45_1645811813021.jpg Territorial defense fighters receive weapons and ammunition in Kiev, Ukraine, 25 February 2022. They are civilian volunteers https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659093-10552157-image-a-48_1645811821155.jpg Members of the Territorial Defence Forces of Ukraine load ammunition after receiving weapons to defend the city of Kyiv, Ukraine February 25, 2022 https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659109-10552157-image-a-49_1645811850909.jpg A young couple joining the territorial defense fighters smile after receiving weapons and ammunition in Kiev, Ukraine, 25 February 2022 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10552157/Heroic-Ukrainian-marine-blows-bridge-hold-Russian-troops.html A volunteer, holding a rifle, protects a main road leading into Kyiv on February 25, 2022 https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/18/54656693-10552157-image-a-66_1645813018286.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/18/54652783-10552157-A_soldier_sits_on_an_army_tank_on_the_outskirts_of_Kiev_on_Frida-m-57_1645812853971.jpg Judging by the photo of the guy loading the magazine, he is a walking accident waiting to happen. I’m surprised at the amount of 5.45 AKs. Figured they’d be 7.62. Where is Sean Penn? Jimmy Carter? |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:37:21 PM EDT
[#6]
I’m honestly curious and concerned with the overland supply runs from NATO. At what point will Russia say that we are supplying weapons to kill their people and say that’s no different than having troops on the ground since both equal dead Russians?
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:37:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By elcope:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMdlI7WUcAEWCMD?format=jpg&name=900x900 |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:38:32 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By elcope:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMdlI7WUcAEWCMD?format=jpg&name=900x900 If nothing else, that picture is a big morale booster for the population. Very smart to put that picture out there. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:38:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PraesidiumFabrica: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/498570/I_just_wanted_to_be_left_alone_jpg-2292734.JPG |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:38:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smokey0844: I’m honestly curious and concerned with the overland supply runs from NATO. At what point will Russia say that we are supplying weapons to kill their people and say that’s no different than having troops on the ground since both equal dead Russians? He’ll whine, but his bluff was called. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:39:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: Is it wise to use the most devastating economic sanction on Russia this point? SWIFT is the trump card. Do we want to play that now or hold it until this conflict concludes and see if we need to use it to gain any leverage during the cease fire negotiations? If we implement it now we'll have used up all our stick and be left with just carrot at that point. A. If we don't use it during the fighting, it won't be used at all B. It's just as much of a carrot to offer to remove it as it a stick to threaten to use. C. Russia presumably thought about the consequences if the invasion, including this, and presumably has a plan to deal with it. If so, they may think (or know) that SWFT is a paper tiger and it's not as harmful to them as we're hoping. |
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PRK
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:39:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smokey0844: I'm honestly curious and concerned with the overland supply runs from NATO. At what point will Russia say that we are supplying weapons to kill their people and say that's no different than having troops on the ground since both equal dead Russians? I.E. Spanish Civil War, Korean War, Vietnam War, etc. They probably will protest, but they're hypocrites. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:39:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MBentz: Judging by the photo of the guy loading the magazine, he is a walking accident waiting to happen. I’m surprised at the amount of 5.45 AKs. Figured they’d be 7.62. Noticed that as well.. All of that surplus 7n6 5.45 was coming out of Ukraine. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:39:54 PM EDT
[#14]
It sounds like Putin has gone bat shit. He gave a speech claiming that he's fighting neo-nazis and urging the Ukrainian military to stage a coup so that they can come to an agreement with Russia. Lavrov is making speeches saying no one is going to attack the Ukrainian people, and they are just going after the Neo-nazis promoting genocide.
Meanwhile the Russians are losing momentum and the Ukrainians still have active air defense. I don't know if that's good news. At what point does a delusional Putin get frustrated and escalate this scenario, while NATO activates it's reactionary force and more troops are being sent to Europe? |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:40:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverBearX: General Petraeus was on Fox earlier and said they had Stingers. Not sure if true. True. They got a shipment from latvia. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:40:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Did I read that right....we (NATO) are trucking defensive aid into Ukraine from Poland? Not just bringing it into Poland, taking it to the border and letting Ukraine pick it up, but actually taking it INTO Ukraine? That would seem like a major escalatory move that could lead to an all out war between Russia and NATO. This seems like an incredibly risky move. I have no issue in supplying Ukraine with weapons. But it needs to be done in a covert way.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:40:31 PM EDT
[#17]
So ARF Undersores and Occupy Wall Street and Lt Col Vindman and the Progressives and GOPe and Hunter are all siding with Ukraine?
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:41:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sveesix]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Did I read that right....we (NATO) are trucking defensive aid into Ukraine from Poland? Not just bringing it into Poland, taking it to the border and letting Ukraine pick it up, but actually taking it INTO Ukraine? That would seem like a major escalatory move that could lead to an all out war between Russia and NATO. This seems like an incredibly risky move. I have no issue in supplying Ukraine with weapons. But it needs to be done in a covert way. That it what it appeared like on twitter. [tweet]https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1497276667991138311?s=20&t=A-CjfOHjUN22gcy7FdQyJw[/tweet] |
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USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:42:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JamesP81: I have a serious question for the people who are smarter than me, which is almost everyone  One of the narratives emerging from this goat rodeo is that Putin viewed it as a security threat that Ukraine was being considered for membership in NATO and otherwise wouldn't have bothered with this invasion if Ukraine was not going to be admitted or considered for admission. Is this Russki propaganda or does it have some validity to it? Russian propaganda to provide justification for their actions in Ukraine. They've been pushing that narrative for years even before they invaded Eastern Ukraine with their little green men. Furthermore, Putin made it clear in his speech declaring war on Ukraine that nothing short of regime change in Ukraine is going to satisfy him. Additionally, Russia has previously demanded and reiterated that they want NATO to be shrunk back to its mid-90s borders including the withdrawal of NATO troops from all countries that joined after expansion in the mid-to-late 90's. Putin wants to restore the former territories of the Russian Empire. He believes that Soviet leaders like Lenin fucked Russia by creating Ukraine and other Soviet Republics that he believes are historical Russian lands. This includes Baltic countries like Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania. There's real and palpable concern that Putin may move on those countries if he's able to easily topple the government in Ukraine. This is the entire reason that the United States and the West must back Ukraine to the hilt. If we don't slow Putin down and demoralize Russia then they may move on Baltic countries that are members of NATO. Then we'd be drawn into a full-scale war with Russia due to Article 5 of NATO which provides for mutual defense and assistance. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:42:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shenanigunz: Originally Posted By ErikS: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/255381/0302CA13-D48A-4186-AD7C-E24A4CDF4D5E-2292756.jpg With his faults he was still the kind of leader we need now. https://i.imgur.com/y0VOMIm.png https://i.imgur.com/S43i2gk.png Oh look, the chief NeverTrumper shows up and NeverTrumps in a thread not about Trump. Can you for just one thread, cut the crap? |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:42:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grambosc: No, they would run off to The Greenbrier, Grove Park Inn, or other designated dens for degenerate demagogues at the first sign of trouble on the horizon. Cowering with their plastic hoods on protected by security that glady shoots unarmed American citizens. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:42:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: You like to attack me because I'm not Ukrainian, don't speak Ukrainian, have a wife that speaks Russian, who lives in Kiev (glad you stopped correcting everyone on the spelling), while you tell me I don't know anything about Ukrainian history that you were taught in America during the Cold War. You refuse to question if any of the history books you read were revisionist or some form of propaganda. You are an American, not a Ukrainian. Yet you've NEVER BEEN TO UKRAINE I'm out of this thread. I'm mentally drained and don't feel like arguing with some of you guys. I'll be popping back in to get updates and update as allowed. I'm hoping that Putin is bluffing (for negotiations) about bringing the Chechens into Kiev because this terrifies me to a level that I don't think many of you will understand. It should be abundantly obvious that he is a loud mouthed boy stuck in a mans body. Please just ignore him and continue help make this thread worth reading. Sorry you have to go though this mess and take care of what you have. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:43:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: He’ll whine, but his bluff was called. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Smokey0844: I’m honestly curious and concerned with the overland supply runs from NATO. At what point will Russia say that we are supplying weapons to kill their people and say that’s no different than having troops on the ground since both equal dead Russians? He’ll whine, but his bluff was called. I said this many pages ago. The Russian story will be that this whole disaster was because the West tricked the poor Ukrainians into becoming their unwitting stooges armed with NATO weapons to be sacrificed against their Russian brothers. Again there is a decided lack of popular ethnic Russians rising up to welcome and support the liberation from the globohomo regime. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:43:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clctr: So ARF Undersores and Occupy Wall Street and Lt Col Vindman and the Progressives and GOPe and Hunter are all siding with Ukraine? It's a strange world we live in. 
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:43:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TylerF: If the Ukraine started killing prisoners indiscriminately, they would literally playing into the lies and propaganda that Putin is using to justify the invasion in the first place. In my mind, it’s hard to justify dedicating resources to providing care and guarding prisoner invaders who came intending to kill or be killed. That’s the decision the invading force makes. Ukraine by all measures is overmatched by Russia’s forces. All resources are critical. I don’t suggest hanging corpses from bridges or anything obscene or unusually cruel. Just saying any invading force has accepted and sought that fate, they should be obliged. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:43:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/16/54656131-10552157-image-a-35_1645806259426.jpg Former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko holds up a Kalashnikov while being interviewed on Friday. He has joined the civilian territorial defense on the streets of Ukraine and says there are lines of people seeking to help but that they don't have enough arms https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/18/54659511-10552157-image-a-56_1645812367610.jpg Poroshenko shared photos on Instagram with other civilians who have signed up to join the territorial defense teams https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659077-10552157-image-a-42_1645811775870.jpg Territorial defense fighters test weapons and ammunition in Kiev, Ukraine, 25 February 2022. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659105-10552157-image-a-45_1645811813021.jpg Territorial defense fighters receive weapons and ammunition in Kiev, Ukraine, 25 February 2022. They are civilian volunteers https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659093-10552157-image-a-48_1645811821155.jpg Members of the Territorial Defence Forces of Ukraine load ammunition after receiving weapons to defend the city of Kyiv, Ukraine February 25, 2022 https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659109-10552157-image-a-49_1645811850909.jpg A young couple joining the territorial defense fighters smile after receiving weapons and ammunition in Kiev, Ukraine, 25 February 2022 https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659109-10552157-image-a-49_1645811850909.jpg A volunteer, holding a rifle, protects a main road leading into Kyiv on February 25, 2022 https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/18/54656693-10552157-image-a-66_1645813018286.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/18/54652783-10552157-A_soldier_sits_on_an_army_tank_on_the_outskirts_of_Kiev_on_Frida-m-57_1645812853971.jpg  Sad that our government would never do this. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:43:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Smokey0844]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clctr: So ARF Undersores and Occupy Wall Street and Lt Col Vindman and the Progressives and GOPe and Hunter are all siding with Ukraine? Eh forget trying to be cute. lol Interesting times we’re in |
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LVA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:43:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whollyshite: Way down the line... Right now, they need to blow the pipelines.  They also need to set up a huge front the bottlenecks the Russians into Chernobyl so their troops sit there and bake.  Too late for the second d one, I know...  If they blow the pipelines through Ukraine, Europe will simply certify North South 2 ASAP. The only one hurt will be the Ukrainians. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:44:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Everyone here had a first post at some point. Too bad most now never ever go to tech forums. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:44:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/16/54656131-10552157-image-a-35_1645806259426.jpg Former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko holds up a Kalashnikov while being interviewed on Friday. He has joined the civilian territorial defense on the streets of Ukraine and says there are lines of people seeking to help but that they don't have enough arms https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/18/54659511-10552157-image-a-56_1645812367610.jpg Poroshenko shared photos on Instagram with other civilians who have signed up to join the territorial defense teams https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659077-10552157-image-a-42_1645811775870.jpg Territorial defense fighters test weapons and ammunition in Kiev, Ukraine, 25 February 2022. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659105-10552157-image-a-45_1645811813021.jpg Territorial defense fighters receive weapons and ammunition in Kiev, Ukraine, 25 February 2022. They are civilian volunteers https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659093-10552157-image-a-48_1645811821155.jpg Members of the Territorial Defence Forces of Ukraine load ammunition after receiving weapons to defend the city of Kyiv, Ukraine February 25, 2022 https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659109-10552157-image-a-49_1645811850909.jpg A young couple joining the territorial defense fighters smile after receiving weapons and ammunition in Kiev, Ukraine, 25 February 2022 https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/17/54659109-10552157-image-a-49_1645811850909.jpg A volunteer, holding a rifle, protects a main road leading into Kyiv on February 25, 2022 https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/18/54656693-10552157-image-a-66_1645813018286.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/18/54652783-10552157-A_soldier_sits_on_an_army_tank_on_the_outskirts_of_Kiev_on_Frida-m-57_1645812853971.jpg Those 74's are pristine and beautiful! |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:44:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voodochild: That's exactly what they did. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voodochild: Originally Posted By Spade: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Sky News has a scrawl on the bottom of their news broadcast saying the Kremlin has indicated they are now willing to send a delegation to Belarus for talks with Ukrainian officials. Not sure how fresh this is, but it is the first I've heard of this specific offer. Between the stiffer than expected Ukrainian resistance and now the possibility Germany and Italy are willing to go along with booting Russia from Swift, combined with the unrest at home, maybe they realize it would be in their best interest to end this shit soon. And no, I don't think Putin is crazy or off his rocker. But I doubt he minds if people in the West are left to wonder just for the intimidation factor. I wouldn't trust them. Didn't they pull that shit in Chechnya? Say they were willing to chat, gave safe passage, and then killed everybody? That's exactly what they did. They did it in 2014 too. Promised safe passage. Massacred the convoy as they passed through the safety corridor. Fuck Russia. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/russian-troops-kill-hundreds-ukrainian-soldiers-report-article-1.1923064 |
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USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:44:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Noticed that as well.. All of that surplus 7n6 5.45 was coming out of Ukraine. last night on the news i saw them lined up at the police department to get their guns. dude walked out with a couple mint krinks and about 12 mags |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:44:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:44:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By saigamanTX: Screw the Germans. Its time to build bases in poland and throw germany out of nato. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:44:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Did I read that right....we (NATO) are trucking defensive aid into Ukraine from Poland? Not just bringing it into Poland, taking it to the border and letting Ukraine pick it up, but actually taking it INTO Ukraine? That would seem like a major escalatory move that could lead to an all out war between Russia and NATO. This seems like an incredibly risky move. I have no issue in supplying Ukraine with weapons. But it needs to be done in a covert way. No that is russian propaganda, the little green trucks are carrying cotton candy and petting zoos for the Ukranian children. See no markings! It doesn't count! Use Putins own "medicine" on him. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:44:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spade: I wouldn't trust them. Didn't they pull that shit in Chechnya? Say they were willing to chat, gave safe passage, and then killed everybody? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spade: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Sky News has a scrawl on the bottom of their news broadcast saying the Kremlin has indicated they are now willing to send a delegation to Belarus for talks with Ukrainian officials. Not sure how fresh this is, but it is the first I've heard of this specific offer. Between the stiffer than expected Ukrainian resistance and now the possibility Germany and Italy are willing to go along with booting Russia from Swift, combined with the unrest at home, maybe they realize it would be in their best interest to end this shit soon. And no, I don't think Putin is crazy or off his rocker. But I doubt he minds if people in the West are left to wonder just for the intimidation factor. I wouldn't trust them. Didn't they pull that shit in Chechnya? Say they were willing to chat, gave safe passage, and then killed everybody? And Belarus is far from a neutral location
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LVA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:45:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MBentz: Judging by the photo of the guy loading the magazine, he is a walking accident waiting to happen. I’m surprised at the amount of 5.45 AKs. Figured they’d be 7.62. Nah. Soviets have transitioned almost 100% to AK-74 by the end of the 80s, and Ukrainian stockpiles reflect that. AK-47 was left only for niche applications. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:45:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Why haven't the Russians knocked out Ukraine's power grid?
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:45:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheRocketmac: Oh look, the chief NeverTrumper shows up and NeverTrumps in a thread not about Trump. Can you for just one thread, cut the crap? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheRocketmac: Originally Posted By Shenanigunz: Originally Posted By ErikS: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/255381/0302CA13-D48A-4186-AD7C-E24A4CDF4D5E-2292756.jpg With his faults he was still the kind of leader we need now. https://i.imgur.com/y0VOMIm.png https://i.imgur.com/S43i2gk.png Oh look, the chief NeverTrumper shows up and NeverTrumps in a thread not about Trump. Can you for just one thread, cut the crap?  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:45:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cryo_tech: Does Ukraine have chemical weapons? Seems like this might be a good time to deploy them Kharn |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:45:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dillydilly]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By elcope:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMdlI7WUcAEWCMD?format=jpg&name=900x900 As long as he and the rest of the elites stay and fight alongside the people, you can bet this will be a blood bath for the Russians. Nothing like brothers in arms both rich and poor fighting for their homeland. Huge morale boost. We’ve seen the former president Poroshenko who’s a billionaire mine you, stay behind. Same with the Klitschko brothers. That says a lot. These people aren’t pussies like so many think they’d be. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:46:15 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: But it needs to be done in a covert way. Why? If Putin wants to make it a causus belli, the trucks its delivered in won't matter. It's not like everyone on the planet doesn't know where Javelins and NLAWs come from. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:46:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spade: The theory is that when Germany invades they'd get to fight them on somebody else's land, who, despite being Socialist brothers, are inferior to Great Russians. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spade: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By JamesP81: I have a serious question for the people who are smarter than me, which is almost everyone One of the narratives emerging from this goat rodeo is that Putin viewed it as a security threat that Ukraine was being considered for membership in NATO and otherwise wouldn't have bothered with this invasion if Ukraine was not going to be admitted or considered for admission. Is this Russki propaganda or does it have some validity to it? While the Russians don’t want NATO on their border they have never needed that reason for any of their other invasions of Ukraine. Russians invading their neighbors is just what Russians do. They have always wanted to dominate militarily to the natural barriers around their land. On top of that, even if they take every old USSR republic guess what...they STILL have NATO on their new borders... The theory is that when Germany invades they'd get to fight them on somebody else's land, who, despite being Socialist brothers, are inferior to Great Russians. Yeah I get it, it's just dumb. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:46:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RainierV: Russian propaganda to provide justification for their actions in Ukraine. They've been pushing that narrative for years even before they invaded Eastern Ukraine with their little green men. Furthermore, Putin made it clear in his speech declaring war on Ukraine that nothing short of regime change in Ukraine is going to satisfy him. Additionally, Russia has previously demanded and reiterated that they want NATO to be shrunk back to its mid-90s borders including the withdrawal of NATO troops from all countries that joined after expansion in the mid-to-late 90's. Putin wants to restore the former territories of the Russian Empire. He believes that Soviet leaders like Lenin fucked Russia by creating Ukraine and other Soviet Republics that he believes are historical Russian lands. This includes Baltic countries like Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania. There's real and palpable concern that Putin may move on those countries if he's able to easily topple the government in Ukraine. This is the entire reason that the United States and the West must back Ukraine to the hilt. If we don't slow Putin down and demoralize Russia then they may move on Baltic countries that are members of NATO. Then we'd be drawn into a full-scale war with Russia due to Article 5 of NATO which provides for mutual defense and assistance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RainierV: Originally Posted By JamesP81: I have a serious question for the people who are smarter than me, which is almost everyone One of the narratives emerging from this goat rodeo is that Putin viewed it as a security threat that Ukraine was being considered for membership in NATO and otherwise wouldn't have bothered with this invasion if Ukraine was not going to be admitted or considered for admission. Is this Russki propaganda or does it have some validity to it? Russian propaganda to provide justification for their actions in Ukraine. They've been pushing that narrative for years even before they invaded Eastern Ukraine with their little green men. Furthermore, Putin made it clear in his speech declaring war on Ukraine that nothing short of regime change in Ukraine is going to satisfy him. Additionally, Russia has previously demanded and reiterated that they want NATO to be shrunk back to its mid-90s borders including the withdrawal of NATO troops from all countries that joined after expansion in the mid-to-late 90's. Putin wants to restore the former territories of the Russian Empire. He believes that Soviet leaders like Lenin fucked Russia by creating Ukraine and other Soviet Republics that he believes are historical Russian lands. This includes Baltic countries like Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania. There's real and palpable concern that Putin may move on those countries if he's able to easily topple the government in Ukraine. This is the entire reason that the United States and the West must back Ukraine to the hilt. If we don't slow Putin down and demoralize Russia then they may move on Baltic countries that are members of NATO. Then we'd be drawn into a full-scale war with Russia due to Article 5 of NATO which provides for mutual defense and assistance. Thank you. That was as succinctly and fairly stated as anything I have read. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:46:31 PM EDT
[#45]
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:46:59 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Too bad most now never ever go to tech forums. At this point, if you use Google's site search feature, you can find the answer to 99% of your questions or issues. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:47:02 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:47:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery: Not if they go all the way to the English Channel but they better secure the UK and Canada in case Greenland and the Isle of Man get any big ideas. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: On top of that, even if they take every old USSR republic guess what...they STILL have NATO on their new borders... Not if they go all the way to the English Channel but they better secure the UK and Canada in case Greenland and the Isle of Man get any big ideas. Right, exactly my point. If that's their logic, where does it stop? |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:47:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Did I read that right....we (NATO) are trucking defensive aid into Ukraine from Poland? Not just bringing it into Poland, taking it to the border and letting Ukraine pick it up, but actually taking it INTO Ukraine? That would seem like a major escalatory move that could lead to an all out war between Russia and NATO. This seems like an incredibly risky move. I have no issue in supplying Ukraine with weapons. But it needs to be done in a covert way. Testing the waters. I doubt this will bring the immediate escalation Putin threatened, but it will make him uncomfortable and he will have to clarify his vague statement of "intervention". Will be interesting. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:47:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smokey0844: I’m honestly curious and concerned with the overland supply runs from NATO. At what point will Russia say that we are supplying weapons to kill their people and say that’s no different than having troops on the ground since both equal dead Russians? Are you concerned about Russian bounties for dead American soldiers? Are you concerned about Soviet SAM launchers and personnel engaging US targets in North Vietnam? Are you concerned about the US arming the Mujahadeen for a decade (who do you think paid for all of the ChiCom AKs they got)? Proxy War is, and has been for many decades, the name of the game. The Russians made a choice that this is what they want. Tough shit. We’re in this situation because of pussfag bedwetters who are afraid to show strength, push back, and put Putin in his place. It’s the reason why this did not happen when Trump was President. |
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