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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:35:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the gayest. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:36:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This will sound silly but hear me out (IOW don't scoff and immediately discount). Check out high level paintball players. Watch how they operate in an obstacle stricken environment. Close. Tight. Fast. The gun is held close. Of course it isn't the same...but it kinda is. It's easy to move fast around obstacles when you're playing a game and the only consequence to getting hit is you lose. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:36:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You call out people who shoot real rifles in competition and then use paintballers using short 3 pound rigs shooting paint at 300FPs as examples… OK Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is the long range stage results of my last 2-Gun match. I was the only competitor to go one for one, a miss meant moving positions. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54712/IMG_8561_jpeg-3036710.JPG Don't think I'm talking smack about me. Any of you guys that do that stuff would shame me, I have no doubt. That being said there's no incoming...no quick dives for cover. I fear bad habits are being established. I don't say that to be an ass or sound superior. I certainly am not (well maybe an ass sometimes). Just pointing out what might look different to some actually has practical applications and has nothing to do with looks. There are plenty of folks who like to talk about such things and have never actually tried them under any kind of pressure. This will sound silly but hear me out (IOW don't scoff and immediately discount). Check out high level paintball players. Watch how they operate in an obstacle stricken environment. Close. Tight. Fast. The gun is held close. Of course it isn't the same...but it kinda is. You call out people who shoot real rifles in competition and then use paintballers using short 3 pound rigs shooting paint at 300FPs as examples… OK Call out. Uh...real rifle competitions. I'm not a competitive shooter which should be obvious by now. As for standing in their shadow in the realm of arms...lol...not so much. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:38:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are SWAT and FBI HRT taught this or allowed discretion on its use? Glad to see nobody bothered reading what I wrote earlier…geez. Yes, most SWAT folks have been exposed to it many times. Some use it, some don’t. Depends on the agency and people. HRT has undoubtedly been exposed to it and some likely use it. OK- story time: another swat instructor comes back from a tactical shooting class where they were pushing the C clamp grip pretty hard, so today we are gonna all do it all day for shooting drills (monthly training). Fine and good. I know I don’t like the technique personally, but I can run it all day no problem and give it another fair try. All is good, til the instructor tells the whole team how it was explained to him in the class he attended that “the collapsible CAR-15 stock was developed during Vietnam so that they could ship M16’s in smaller crates, so they took up less space, so we should always use the collapsible stocks fully extended” or something to that effect… I was laughing my ass off, some of us were looking at each other going “should we tell him?”... Not sure if the idiots who taught his class really believed that stupid line of BS, or if they were just fucking with their students and he just did not get the joke. This was a homeland security sponsored class he went to, instructors were ex military folks, etc…just WTF. Needless to say I still run my collapsible stock wherever it is most appropriate for what I am doing, typically just 1 click out for CQB stuff. And after another whole day of doing C clamp grip, I still don’t like it in most situations personally. No surprise there. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:38:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's easy to move fast around obstacles when you're playing a game and the only consequence to getting hit is you lose. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This will sound silly but hear me out (IOW don't scoff and immediately discount). Check out high level paintball players. Watch how they operate in an obstacle stricken environment. Close. Tight. Fast. The gun is held close. Of course it isn't the same...but it kinda is. It's easy to move fast around obstacles when you're playing a game and the only consequence to getting hit is you lose. That's my point. Remove fear and fight up close and that is the best way to survive. Tight. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:39:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Depends on what you're trying to do. NRA High Power, C-clamp, magwell hold - they all have their purpose.
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:43:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glad to see nobody bothered reading what I wrote earlier…geez. Yes, most SWAT folks have been exposed to it many times. Some use it, some don’t. Depends on the agency and people. HRT has undoubtedly been exposed to it and some likely use it. OK- story time: another swat instructor comes back from a tactical shooting class where they were pushing the C clamp grip pretty hard, so today we are gonna all do it all day for shooting drills (monthly training). Fine and good. I know I don’t like the technique personally, but I can run it all day no problem and give it another fair try. All is good, til the instructor tells the whole team how it was explained to him in the class he attended that “the collapsible CAR-15 stock was developed during Vietnam so that they could ship M16’s in smaller crates, so they took up less space, so we should always use the collapsible stocks fully extended” or something to that effect… I was laughing my ass off, some of us were looking at each other going “should we tell him?”... Not sure if the idiots who taught his class really believed that stupid line of BS, or if they were just fucking with their students and he just did not get the joke. This was a homeland security sponsored class he went to, instructors were ex military folks, etc…just WTF. Needless to say I still run my collapsible stock wherever it is most appropriate for what I am doing, typically just 1 click out for CQB stuff. And after another whole day of doing C clamp grip, I still don’t like it in most situations personally. No surprise there. I guess they'll let anyone teach classes these days good lord. If they were teaching such nonsense to the boy scouts I think I'd have a hard time not questioning that kind of stupidity, yikes. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:43:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you actually trained with your rifle, you would know the answer...  This. Run some drills.Put a few thousand through it and you'll see a difference. It's faster at transitioning because of the leverage you have. That's science. Not subjective. But I don't always use it. Sometimes it doesn't make sense. I also run a vfg out like 1/2 way and index the back of my hand on the rail against it, and that works pretty well. But never on the magwell |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:44:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This will sound silly but hear me out (IOW don't scoff and immediately discount). Check out high level paintball players. Watch how they operate in an obstacle stricken environment. Close. Tight. Fast. The gun is held close. Of course it isn't the same...but it kinda is. No, they aren't the same. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:45:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Call out. Uh...real rifle competitions. I'm not a competitive shooter which should be obvious by now. As for standing in their shadow in the realm of arms...lol...not so much. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is the long range stage results of my last 2-Gun match. I was the only competitor to go one for one, a miss meant moving positions. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54712/IMG_8561_jpeg-3036710.JPG Don't think I'm talking smack about me. Any of you guys that do that stuff would shame me, I have no doubt. That being said there's no incoming...no quick dives for cover. I fear bad habits are being established. I don't say that to be an ass or sound superior. I certainly am not (well maybe an ass sometimes). Just pointing out what might look different to some actually has practical applications and has nothing to do with looks. There are plenty of folks who like to talk about such things and have never actually tried them under any kind of pressure. This will sound silly but hear me out (IOW don't scoff and immediately discount). Check out high level paintball players. Watch how they operate in an obstacle stricken environment. Close. Tight. Fast. The gun is held close. Of course it isn't the same...but it kinda is. You call out people who shoot real rifles in competition and then use paintballers using short 3 pound rigs shooting paint at 300FPs as examples… OK Call out. Uh...real rifle competitions. I'm not a competitive shooter which should be obvious by now. As for standing in their shadow in the realm of arms...lol...not so much. If you’ve got it all figured out… then why are you asking the question? Why are you associating sexuality with the way someone supports their rifle? |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:50:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Get Chris on the phone
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:56:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Do what works for you. I find being nearly locked out works best for me both pistol and rifle. So I use an isosceles stance (more relaxed tho) and a c-clamp kind of grip. But I need an AFG to get the angle comfortable. It also feels right cuz I have big hands. When I shoot the Garand, I’m constantly having to adjust to avoid the op-rod. I singe my fingertips every time I shoot something with a minuscule forend like the Ruger American.
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:59:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends on if your 6'8" or 4'11". Everyone is different but the gun is the same. Well, is the gun really the “same” - forearm-wise - if you’re running a 9” SBR versus a 20” pencil-barrel Retro rifle? |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:12:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Just about half way of a 16” barrel. I don’t lock my elbow extended. It’s important to have enough room to apply pressure on the sling for accuracy but still be able to be maneuverable for magazine changes without getting hung up on the sling.
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:17:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just about half way of a 16” barrel. I don’t lock my elbow extended. It’s important to have enough room to apply pressure on the sling for accuracy but still be able to be maneuverable for magazine changes without getting hung up on the sling. This is the Gen X way. The right way. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:21:18 PM EDT
[#16]
OP shoots pistols with a cup and saucer grip.
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:22:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP shoots pistols with a cup and saucer grip. Is that wrong? Regardless that is not the discussion at hand. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:50:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hold it however you want that enables you to shoot most effectively. This Who gives a fuck how it makes you look. If you're really using the rifle to defend yourself, nobody will give 2 shits how you're holding it. As long as you can get hits on target quickly and effectively, then how you hold it is of no concern whatsoever. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:58:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Ask Rittenhouse as he was rolling around on the ground what his thoughts were on the best rifle grip... It's whatever keeps you in the fight and winning.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:00:14 PM EDT
[#20]
As far forward as is comfortable, thumb on the top of the rail, 4 fingers cupping the forward edge of a vertical foregrip.
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:07:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Look at this clown. C clamping, holding that shit right by the suppressor, purple Armani shirt. Totally effeminate.
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:09:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This will sound silly but hear me out (IOW don't scoff and immediately discount). Check out high level paintball players. Watch how they operate in an obstacle stricken environment. Close. Tight. Fast. The gun is held close. Of course it isn't the same...but it kinda is. Holy fuck. 
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:10:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you even drive the platform bro? https://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02/02/fb7dd1f156b9a0402885a222efc0b74d.jpg I am not an "operator", LEO nor firearm professional, but I have to say, holding the AR this way is the most fucked up position I have ever seen. I tried it like this one time and my groups opened up to 14" This fucked up bullshit may be the sole reason why I despise anything associated with his name |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:11:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Costa C Clamp on my Warcomp dawg.
In reality, my Railscales are just beyond halfway between the magwell and the end of the 13.5” rail. A neutral grip with my elbow slightly bent works best for me. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:11:34 PM EDT
[#25]
 Gotta have one hand free for threats.... |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:11:47 PM EDT
[#26]
I just try to emulate what my Call of Duty character does.
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:11:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Professional internet gun reviewer ninjas tell me I should put my offhand stupidly at the far end of my rifle. But I don't listen to them.
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:11:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holy fuck. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This will sound silly but hear me out (IOW don't scoff and immediately discount). Check out high level paintball players. Watch how they operate in an obstacle stricken environment. Close. Tight. Fast. The gun is held close. Of course it isn't the same...but it kinda is. Holy fuck. Played ball in the states. Played w others in the streets of Mosul. I'd say I'm in a position to compare the two. Are you? |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:13:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: hesrightyouknow.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hold it however you want that enables you to shoot most effectively. Yep |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:15:54 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:25:30 PM EDT
[#31]
I have always held my gun like this with my thumb pointing forward along the side of the handguard with the VFG positioned near the midpoint (using a 12.5" DD RIS III handguard currently)
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:33:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have always held my gun like this with my thumb pointing forward along the side of the handguard with the VFG positioned near the midpoint (using a 12.5" DD RIS III handguard currently) https://media.defense.gov/2022/Mar/18/2002958998/825/780/0/211109-A-QD197-007.JPG https://www.wingtactical.com/product_images/uploaded_images/shooting-stand-2015.jpg A fellow connoisseur of using a VFG like an AFG. Placement is good too. Right where light controls will be on most rifles. Curious about your sling placement. It’s all personal preference of course but I like to anchor off a QD socket in the stock and run my front socket towards the end of the handguard. I find it easier to sling up while giving me a window for mag changes. Do you run yours that way for a specific purpose? No debate of anything, just curious. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:34:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I prefer using both hands. That’s about it. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:40:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryThat’s an actual target hold. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:44:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Whatever allows you to pull the rifle in and stabilize it and mitigate recoil/keep you on target
The effeminate comment is stupid. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:47:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You realize there's shitloads of video of guys who spent the last two decades shooting people in the face doing the C clamp, right?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifommEfPnPAQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Don't think I'm talking smack about me. Any of you guys that do that stuff would shame me, I have no doubt. That being said there's no incoming...no quick dives for cover. I fear bad habits are being established. I don't say that to be an ass or sound superior. I certainly am not (well maybe an ass sometimes). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifommEfPnPASome of the guys in the video weren’t using the c-clamp grip. Some were holding the VFG. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:52:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Ah another I was once a soldier or Marine in the desert and now people are doing things that are different from how I was trained and I don't like it threads. Thanks for your service, glad you survived, but there are better shooters than you out there and they teach different things. Some of them probably saw more combat than you, some probably didn't, learn from them all, find what works best for you, and quit caring how other people do things.
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:53:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of the guys in the video weren't using the c-clamp grip. Some were holding the VFG. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don't think I'm talking smack about me. Any of you guys that do that stuff would shame me, I have no doubt. That being said there's no incoming...no quick dives for cover. I fear bad habits are being established. I don't say that to be an ass or sound superior. I certainly am not (well maybe an ass sometimes). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifommEfPnPASome of the guys in the video weren't using the c-clamp grip. Some were holding the VFG. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:54:35 PM EDT
[#39]
The correct answer is…..there is no correct answer, if you’re looking for one method/position. Gamesmanship aside, you should be comfortable with variable offhand positions as your environment will dictate the best choice.
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:57:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Proper according to who?
What's the application? Kicking in doors and clearing rooms use a much different grip than shooting Highpower. The only answer is there is no one proper way. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 1:08:43 AM EDT
[#41]
I grip the magwell with my off hand. My USPF AR doesn't have handguards.
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Posted: 11/23/2023 1:42:51 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you even drive the platform bro? https://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02/02/fb7dd1f156b9a0402885a222efc0b74d.jpg So... ever heard of muscle memory???? Once built you go into autopilot (like when the shtf or a real armed encounter). So... imagine going "autopilot" but you have a M4 or a SBR! |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 2:12:53 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But does it's utility when introduced to the mass of shooters overcome it's gay look? I don't think so. Can you imagine them storming the beaches of Tarawa like that? I could never look at gramps the same way again . It’s a simple matter of leverage. Trying it even for a second should make it very obvious. You say youve held an AR before? Doubt. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 8:19:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not a fan of the c clamp method either, I like hand forward thumb forward grip. With SBR's I like a hand stop to pull against but only 2 fingers against the stop or stubby vfg. I do what I think you're describing. Hand a little past halfway down the barrel, with a "rest" to pull against. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 8:42:09 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 11/23/2023 8:57:28 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have always held my gun like this with my thumb pointing forward along the side of the handguard with the VFG positioned near the midpoint (using a 12.5" DD RIS III handguard currently) https://media.defense.gov/2022/Mar/18/2002958998/825/780/0/211109-A-QD197-007.JPG https://www.wingtactical.com/product_images/uploaded_images/shooting-stand-2015.jpg Exactly the same. Can manipulate light and laser from that spot. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 9:17:02 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This will sound silly but hear me out (IOW don't scoff and immediately discount). Check out high level paintball players. Watch how they operate in an obstacle stricken environment. Close. Tight. Fast. The gun is held close. Of course it isn't the same...but it kinda is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is the long range stage results of my last 2-Gun match. I was the only competitor to go one for one, a miss meant moving positions. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54712/IMG_8561_jpeg-3036710.JPG Don't think I'm talking smack about me. Any of you guys that do that stuff would shame me, I have no doubt. That being said there's no incoming...no quick dives for cover. I fear bad habits are being established. I don't say that to be an ass or sound superior. I certainly am not (well maybe an ass sometimes). Just pointing out what might look different to some actually has practical applications and has nothing to do with looks. There are plenty of folks who like to talk about such things and have never actually tried them under any kind of pressure. This will sound silly but hear me out (IOW don't scoff and immediately discount). Check out high level paintball players. Watch how they operate in an obstacle stricken environment. Close. Tight. Fast. The gun is held close. Of course it isn't the same...but it kinda is. While 5.56 doesn't recoil a ton, a paintball gun doesn't really recoil at all... |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 9:22:30 AM EDT
[#48]
Here you go, OP
 Jerry Miculek - Pointers on How to Hold an AR-15 for Consistent, Accurate Shooting |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 9:43:18 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What year is it. I heard that new movie, Avatar, is pretty good |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 9:54:03 AM EDT
[#50]
Yeah man, you haven’t watched nearly enough YouTube videos on how to be like costa or Haley.
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