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Posted: 6/17/2024 3:34:29 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nonsensical straw man. Ukrainians can fight for whatever borders they want as long as they want. More power to them. We can do the same with our borders. Ukrainians, however, don't give a shit about our borders. Why should they? They have their own problems and priorities as do we. Are they "Hugo Chavez penis puffers " because they don't care about our border? Of course not as I said, they have their own priorities and problems. However, as I tell my children, if someone else is paying your bills, he who pays your bills has every right to saying when, where, why, and how long he pays those bills. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Putin puffers are quick. Fuck all that bull shit. Russia can pull back to pre 2014 boarders then get on their soap box about peace. But why would they? They seem to have the resources to continue pushing further. The Ukes are barely holding on. Some times you have to swallow your pride. If they care about saving lives they would enter these talks. But they aren't, it's about money. The gravy train ends of fighting ends. Would you so high on compromise and "swallowing your pride" if your own country was invaded? If so that says a lot about you BUt it's not our country being invaded so we can be pragmatic about the issue. THey can fight as long for as much as they want. However, American largess should and must have strings attached and, as such, we can certainly put limits to our tax dollars. They can fight for a thousand years if they want, we should not fund it for a thousand years, however. Wait, many people in this thread say we're being invaded. Be pragmatic- give the invaders everything they want. This may be a shock to you--Ukriane is not the United States and Ukrainians are not AMericans and it is perfectly reasonable for Ukrianians and AMericans to have different priorities when it comes to their own country vs someone else's country. Give up- it's the only pragmatic answer. Nonsensical straw man. Ukrainians can fight for whatever borders they want as long as they want. More power to them. We can do the same with our borders. Ukrainians, however, don't give a shit about our borders. Why should they? They have their own problems and priorities as do we. Are they "Hugo Chavez penis puffers " because they don't care about our border? Of course not as I said, they have their own priorities and problems. However, as I tell my children, if someone else is paying your bills, he who pays your bills has every right to saying when, where, why, and how long he pays those bills. You continue to talk like this is a zero sum game. Are you sure you're not just ignoring anything that supports your simplistic opinion? |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 3:43:50 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Funny, I must have missed where I mentioned anything about what Putin would want for a ceasefire. I am not talking about what it will take to get a ceasefire to work. I questioned if the grift of our tax dollars would continue. How much more money would you like us to give? I'm still waiting for that answer from everyone that wants us to keep spending. The fact I can't get that answer shows who the stooges are around here Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So will the Biden administration and zelensky try to shoot that down so they can continue their grift? Lol. "Give us all the areas we haven't captured then say you won't join NATO" Nice try stooge. Funny, I must have missed where I mentioned anything about what Putin would want for a ceasefire. I am not talking about what it will take to get a ceasefire to work. I questioned if the grift of our tax dollars would continue. How much more money would you like us to give? I'm still waiting for that answer from everyone that wants us to keep spending. The fact I can't get that answer shows who the stooges are around here Or are you wanting a hard dollar amount, because that would just be vapid and absurd. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 3:51:01 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Ukraine has nothing to do with the US boarder or how any of the other $5 Trillion dollar budget is spent. The boarder is open because the DNC and a good portion of the GOP want it open. It's not from a lack of funding or a equipment because we have that money or supplies to Ukraine. You should spend less time crying about Ukraine and more time lobbying about the boarder if you actually care. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So asking why US tax dollars are not being spent to defend the US border instead of Ukraine's is Russian propaganda? /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/200-816.gif Yes. Ukraine has nothing to do with the US boarder or how any of the other $5 Trillion dollar budget is spent. The boarder is open because the DNC and a good portion of the GOP want it open. It's not from a lack of funding or a equipment because we have that money or supplies to Ukraine. You should spend less time crying about Ukraine and more time lobbying about the boarder if you actually care. 
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Posted: 6/17/2024 3:58:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh Ok. Sure buddy. As if F-16s can't get shot the fuck down. Till the next wonder weapon I presume? Who has said they can’t? F16s have been lost in combat before. It’s a transition to western weapons and will increase their effectiveness and lethality. That’s why it’s a major problem for Russia and the z brigade here |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 4:00:29 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The legendary Finnish leader and national hero, Field Marshal Mannerhiem, decided it was in his country's best interest to give up some turf, end the war with the Soviets, and sign a peace treaty with them that has been honored by the parties for the last 80 years or so. Today, we have some two bit Ukrainian comedian, backed up by a bunch of simple minded neocon losers in DC and Europe, who insist that Ukraine must fight on and will prevail, reclaiming its (pick your year) borders. I wonder what advice the distinguished old Finnish general might offer Ukrainians today. Remember, Finland was fighting the full might of the Soviet Union without meaningful allies, and they still stopped the Soviets in their tracks. The Ukraine is only fighting Russia, and has the backing of advanced powers. The two situations are in no way similar beyond the sharing of Russian aggression and incompetence. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 5:51:51 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Adjusted for inflation, that 50 bil is more like 1.12 trillion. US gdp for 1940 was 1.44 trillion adjusted for inflation. I'm not sure why you would skip pertinent facts like that. The grand total of US aid pledged (not necessarily sent) is 170 billion. A big number, sure. But the US total spending for 2022 and 2023 was a hair over 6 trillion apiece. 2024 is projected to be 6.5 If we were to send it all by the end of 2024, (and we wont) that would make the total aid a hair under 1% of the Fed budget for those three years. 170 bil of 18.5 tril But sure. Aid to Ukraine is somehow bankrupting the USA and causing a rapid decline in your quality of life. It's a contributing & symptomatic example of exactly the kind of spending that got us to the current debt levels we now carry. Habits have to change to effect the result. Doing infinitesimally less of the same thing is still doing too much it. Way too much. We have to wean ourselves from the printing & spending habit. The austerity wall approaches... |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 6:05:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know darn well plenty of people would be making a lot of noise to stay out of the war, not our business, Hitler deserves to protect German-speaking people, Germany was provoked by 'Allied' powers, etc. Exactly the same stuff we see in GD today. Quote HistoryQuoted: You know darn well plenty of people would be making a lot of noise to stay out of the war, not our business, Hitler deserves to protect German-speaking people, Germany was provoked by 'Allied' powers, etc. Exactly the same stuff we see in GD today. Not even the same scenario. Pearl Harbor got us involved; the war kicked the US out of the depression. All exactly as Roosevelt wanted & planned. We got bent out of shape over Russia parking nukes in Cuba. Now why should we expect Russians to think differently when the situation is turned around from their POV? Russians are an inherently paranoid culture, so the reaction isn't too surprising, Putin or not. Might Putin feel cornered & lash out if we get too involved? Don't know. Is it worth the risk? What does the US gain if Ukraine prevails? More specifically, who gains in Ukraine prevails? Because I'm thinking it would benefit only a select few. Zelenski's wife commented during a Euro summit that Ukrainians are willing to go a couple of years without heat & power to win this conflict. Was she speaking on her behalf as well, or just theirs? Love to see where the "leadership" is on personal sacrifice continuum. Quoted: You continue to talk like this is a zero sum game. Are you sure you're not just ignoring anything that supports your simplistic opinion? I'll ask again: What does the US tangibly gain from this? Will it be like what we got after being mired in the ME for ~20 years? Is that it? I know there are people who have gained from that conflict. But I'm asking about the whole nation, not Big Cub insider players. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 7:37:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Putin can go fuck himself. So they give up more land now and abandon the thought of NATO so Russia can grab more land later. I know I shouldn't ask this but are people really that stupid?
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Posted: 6/17/2024 7:39:00 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to say they don't spend enough, but the UK does and still ran out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And why is this the case, do you think? I'd like to say they don't spend enough, but the UK does and still ran out. If they ran out, then isn’t the logical conclusion that they didn’t spend enough? |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 7:47:36 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russians should totally go to the Red Sea! Houthis could use a win at this point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Red Sea? Red Sea is a useful parallel, though. We've spent shitloads on munitions. The same Democrats who support Ukraine are supporting that. The U.S. taxpayer is bearing the majority of the cost. And in this case, U.S. forces are directly in harms way. Yet, no daily narrative about how it's all MIC graft, we don't have the endless drumroll that the Houthi's are the legitimate government of Yemen and how surrender is the only responsible course of action. We don't have a narrative suggesting that the proper and logical response of Democrats supporting the fight is for Republicans to not support it. We don't have anyone suggesting that fighting Houthis and securing shipping lanes there is in any way related to the U.S.-Mexico border. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 7:51:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do you insist on posting things that are completely, demonstrably false? You are a serial liar. oh hurtz! Right in the feelz! YOu guys are caught in your bullshit all of the time. Do you remember UKebro claims that there were no Uke oligarchs in Ukraine? How about the laws passed outlawing the use of Russian in official business in Ukraine? How about there are no Nazis? How about there were no Nazis there now? THat George Soros has not been up to his shenanigans in Ukraine for the past 40 yrs and does not have 5 of his 17 OSF offices in Ukraine. and on and on and on... How do you explain the Nuland- Payatt recording? How about Brennan showing up right after coup to install the CIA favored Ukes in the place of the old SBU? Yeah, your claim to moral and ethical superiority is swamp-level virtue signaling. It's like a convicted murderer telling a gun owner they are morally bankrupt for owning guns. Look who you align with on this. It's the simplest of indicators to show where everyone stands on this. These are you comrades in the great struggle for a better communism.    |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 7:57:50 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putin can go fuck himself. So they give up more land now and abandon the thought of NATO so Russia can grab more land later. I know I shouldn't ask this but are people really that stupid? Some are. Others are consciously carrying water. Most are just sick and tired of the legitimate "globohomo" social trends and politics and have let themselves be blinded to the bias and manipulation in their chosen media source, as the narrative offered is neat and tidy, and requires effort and knowledge to get it to fall apart. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 8:13:37 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Given the relative positions Finland was in in 1939 and the Ukraine is in today? I'd imagine he'd opt to push Russia's shit in. Remember, Finland was fighting the full might of the Soviet Union without meaningful allies, and they still stopped the Soviets in their tracks. The Ukraine is only fighting Russia, and has the backing of advanced powers. The two situations are in no way similar beyond the sharing of Russian aggression and incompetence. What you "imagine" might have happened is irrelevant. The facts are that the peace treaty has been honored by both sides for the last +-80 years and the Finnish people began to prosper during the ensuing peace instead of continuing to suffer under war time conditions. Furthermore, the fantasy that an outgunned, worn out, and undermanned Ukrainian army can drive the Russians out of Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and/or Crimea grows more and more remote each day. It's the Ukainian people fight and the the most recent comprehensive poll I've seen shows continued support for their current leadership and the war. https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/06/ukraine-public-opinion-russia-war?lang=en I would advise them not to rely upon American politicians for endless funding of their government and its war with Russia as I am among those who will be supporting politicians who would end that funding. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 8:18:23 AM EDT
[#14]
Explain me one thing though.
Why was it ok to force Serbia to renounce parts of its territory ? |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 9:18:28 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Explain me one thing though. Why was it ok to force Serbia to renounce parts of its territory ? The situation is Serbia was anomalous, frustrating, and the chosen resolution is still openly debated today for the same Helsinki Final Act issues at sake here (which certain people love to ignore). Literally everything propaganda only claims has been the reality in Ukraine was happening in spades there. Russia had taken that "script" and attempted to engineer a copy-paste version to legitimize its land grab. It then got greedy and went for more. The decision to "annex" the "secessionist" lands and not prop them up as independent countries also marks the third act of the stage-play as very, very different, effectively betraying the agenda all along. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 9:26:47 AM EDT
[#16]
If you didn't buy ordnance manufacturer stock in time to profit from this war, there's still a chance to invest in UXO clearance companies. Those contracts are gonna be extremely lucrative once they quit dropping shells on the countryside. Tetra Tech is salivating at the prospects.
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Posted: 6/17/2024 10:37:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: oh hurtz! Right in the feelz! YOu guys are caught in your bullshit all of the time. Do you remember UKebro claims that there were no Uke oligarchs in Ukraine? How about the laws passed outlawing the use of Russian in official business in Ukraine? How about there are no Nazis? How about there were no Nazis there now? THat George Soros has not been up to his shenanigans in Ukraine for the past 40 yrs and does not have 5 of his 17 OSF offices in Ukraine. and on and on and on... How do you explain the Nuland- Payatt recording? How about Brennan showing up right after coup to install the CIA favored Ukes in the place of the old SBU? Yeah, your claim to moral and ethical superiority is swamp-level virtue signaling. It's like a convicted murderer telling a gun owner they are morally bankrupt for owning guns. Look who you align with on this. It's the simplest of indicators to show where everyone stands on this. These are you comrades in the great struggle for a better communism. https://i.postimg.cc/SxY9qNVD/1662942098354197.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/LXQf2YdQ/00-13-600x303-1.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/yYZfpBcC/221221200643-bpt101-zelensky-congress-speech-1221.jpg I don't remember anyone claiming any of those things. Could you link to them? If you don't want to be known as a liar, maybe you should stop repeating things you know to be false? For example, your repeated claims that the eastern Ukranians tried to secede due to the Maidan when you know perfectly well that it was nothing but Russian astroturf? Personally I align with the first politicians to give Ukraine lethal aid. Sorry you don't. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 10:47:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't remember anyone claiming any of those things. Could you link to them? If you don't want to be known as a liar, maybe you should stop repeating things you know to be false? For example, your repeated claims that the eastern Ukranians tried to secede due to the Maidan when you know perfectly well that it was nothing but Russian astroturf? Personally I align with the first politicians to give Ukraine lethal aid. Sorry you don't. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: oh hurtz! Right in the feelz! YOu guys are caught in your bullshit all of the time. Do you remember UKebro claims that there were no Uke oligarchs in Ukraine? How about the laws passed outlawing the use of Russian in official business in Ukraine? How about there are no Nazis? How about there were no Nazis there now? THat George Soros has not been up to his shenanigans in Ukraine for the past 40 yrs and does not have 5 of his 17 OSF offices in Ukraine. and on and on and on... How do you explain the Nuland- Payatt recording? How about Brennan showing up right after coup to install the CIA favored Ukes in the place of the old SBU? Yeah, your claim to moral and ethical superiority is swamp-level virtue signaling. It's like a convicted murderer telling a gun owner they are morally bankrupt for owning guns. Look who you align with on this. It's the simplest of indicators to show where everyone stands on this. These are you comrades in the great struggle for a better communism. https://i.postimg.cc/SxY9qNVD/1662942098354197.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/LXQf2YdQ/00-13-600x303-1.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/yYZfpBcC/221221200643-bpt101-zelensky-congress-speech-1221.jpg I don't remember anyone claiming any of those things. Could you link to them? If you don't want to be known as a liar, maybe you should stop repeating things you know to be false? For example, your repeated claims that the eastern Ukranians tried to secede due to the Maidan when you know perfectly well that it was nothing but Russian astroturf? Personally I align with the first politicians to give Ukraine lethal aid. Sorry you don't. He can't. It's all made up BS. Everyone including him knows it. Some prople just seem to love the taste of daddy ruzzia in the morning. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 10:55:15 AM EDT
[#19]
No one should trust Putin, but he primarily wants access for his oil pipelines and shipping routes.
Perhaps a low tariff long-term deal would entice him to end the war and go back to the where they started on land borders. Ukraine can never be part of NATO for any peace deal to work. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 11:55:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The DPR brought Russia in? Lol. Alexander Borodai, the first Prime Minister of the DPR, was a Russian FSB agent. He worked together with Girkin in Crimea, then moved on to Donbas where he created the DPR in conjunction with Girkin. Borodai, like Girkin, has given interviews discussing the clear, obvious fact that the people behind the little green men in Crimea were the same as the people behind the "independence movements" in Donbas. So yeah, the DPR and LPR are and always have been straight astroturf. But hey, the US Ambassador to Ukraine was recorded talking about giving advice to a Ukranian politician, so that's pretty much the same thing in Russian propaganda land. If it's that easy to "astroturf" then why did it only work in regions where primarily Russian people lived, and that wanted to join Russia, such as Donetsk and Luhansk. This was all a response to the regime change in Kiev, and the people in those regions not wanting to continue with the new dubious regime, and so figures like Girkin were allowed to do their 'community organizing' by the local populace. If the US actually cared about the territorial integrity of Ukraine, then we wouldn't have backed a regime change that would set this whole thing in motion, because it was clear from the start that this would send the eastern regions packing. And if the Kremlin was actually "astroturfing" the DPR and LPR, then they did a poorly coordinated job of it, considering that in May 2014, those two territories sent requests to become full federation members. The Kremlin denied (put on hold) this request, and still tried for years to get them to stay part of Ukraine but in a semi autonomous fashion. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 12:21:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it's that easy to "astroturf" then why did it only work in regions where primarily Russian people lived, and that wanted to join Russia, such as Donetsk and Luhansk. This was all a response to the regime change in Kiev, and the people in those regions not wanting to continue with the new dubious regime, and so figures like Girkin were allowed to do their 'community organizing' by the local populace. If the US actually cared about the territorial integrity of Ukraine, then we wouldn't have backed a regime change that would set this whole thing in motion, because it was clear from the start that this would send the eastern regions packing. And if the Kremlin was actually "astroturfing" the DPR and LPR, then they did a poorly coordinated job of it, considering that in May 2014, those two territories sent requests to become full federation members. The Kremlin denied (put on hold) this request, and still tried for years to get them to stay part of Ukraine but in a semi autonomous fashion. This ain't rocket science my dude. The Russians chose where to send their FSB agents based on where they thought they could create a thin veneer of plausibility for the idea that it was home grown. If Girkin had shown up in Lviv not even the most useful of the Kremlin's idiots could have pretended that there was anything natural about the conflict. My guy, FSB agent Borodai was Prime Minister of the DPR in May 2014. Does it seem reasonable to cite an action taken by a literal agent of the Russian state to prove that said action wasn't directed by the Russian state? Or does it seem more likely that the agent of the Russian state made that request so that the Russian state could use it as part of their propaganda? Fun story about Borodai, he's openly admitted that he stepped down as Prime Minister at the behest of Moscow so that it could look more like a local movement. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 12:26:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Ukraine will fight until the foreign aid quits. Leaders like to get their cuts.
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Posted: 6/17/2024 12:49:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it's that easy to "astroturf" then why did it only work in regions where primarily Russian people lived…. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The DPR brought Russia in? Lol. Alexander Borodai, the first Prime Minister of the DPR, was a Russian FSB agent. He worked together with Girkin in Crimea, then moved on to Donbas where he created the DPR in conjunction with Girkin. Borodai, like Girkin, has given interviews discussing the clear, obvious fact that the people behind the little green men in Crimea were the same as the people behind the "independence movements" in Donbas. So yeah, the DPR and LPR are and always have been straight astroturf. But hey, the US Ambassador to Ukraine was recorded talking about giving advice to a Ukranian politician, so that's pretty much the same thing in Russian propaganda land. If it's that easy to "astroturf" then why did it only work in regions where primarily Russian people lived…. Logistics. Those areas bordered Russia, and made it easy to move Russian troops and weapons across the border. They tried it in Odessa and were wiped out like cockroaches. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 2:31:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't remember anyone claiming any of those things. Could you link to them? If you don't want to be known as a liar, maybe you should stop repeating things you know to be false? For example, your repeated claims that the eastern Ukranians tried to secede due to the Maidan when you know perfectly well that it was nothing but Russian astroturf? Personally I align with the first politicians to give Ukraine lethal aid. Sorry you don't. Yes you are on Biden's side. Globohomo's side. Got it. We all know. so you are saying then, there are Uke Oligarchs in Ukraine? You are admitting there are Nazis there? You are admitting that Soros has been very active in Ukraine with the shenanigans? |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 2:31:41 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He can't. It's all made up BS. Everyone including him knows it. Some prople just seem to love the taste of daddy ruzzia in the morning.  No. You guys are nothing but Karens. "Oh he said things we don't like! He's such a liar!!!" |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 2:34:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Look at the pictures!!! Look at the pictures!!! Look at the pictures!!! Globohomo!!!!!! |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 2:39:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes you are on Biden's side. Globohomo's side. Got it. We all know. Classic Kihn, posting on full auto when you get called out on your bullshit. Did you ever notice that about yourself? You're not posting links because you lied about people saying those things. People who lie repeatedly are liars. The first guy to send lethal aid to Ukraine was Trump, champ. Obama refused to send lethal aid and Biden cut off lethal aid as soon as he entered office. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 2:44:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. You guys are nothing but Karens. "Oh he said things we don't like! He's such a liar!!!" This? Coming from YOU? Oh the irony. And I am sure you do not realize it.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 2:47:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look at the pictures!!! Look at the pictures!!! Look at the pictures!!! Globohomo!!!!!! Are you glitching out? |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 3:00:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Free Beer Tomorrow.
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Posted: 6/17/2024 3:20:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes you are on Biden's side. Globohomo's side. Got it. We all know. so you are saying then, there are Uke Oligarchs in Ukraine? You are admitting there are Nazis there? You are admitting that Soros has been very active in Ukraine with the shenanigans? Soros and Stalin both spoke Esperanto and the globohomos are trying to get your kids to learn it too in mixed race classrooms. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 3:23:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Soros and Stalin both spoke Esperanto and the globohomos are trying to get your kids to learn it too in mixed race classrooms. AHHHHHHHHHH |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 3:26:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putin can go fuck himself. So they give up more land now and abandon the thought of NATO so Russia can grab more land later. I know I shouldn't ask this but are people really that stupid? 
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Posted: 6/17/2024 3:29:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putin can go fuck himself. So they give up more land now and abandon the thought of NATO so Russia can grab more land later. I know I shouldn't ask this but are people really that stupid?
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Posted: 6/17/2024 3:42:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AHHHHHHHHHH Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Soros and Stalin both spoke Esperanto and the globohomos are trying to get your kids to learn it too in mixed race classrooms. AHHHHHHHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHH |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 3:46:13 PM EDT
[#36]
I think his offer is a good starting point for negotiations on some of the finer points.
Establish a De-Militarized Zone (DMZ) and have both sides agree that no additional military assets will be put in place during the cease fire period as all parties work towards a resolution. Let's get the parties in a room and hash out a negotiated settlement now, not three years from now when we end up with the same thing we could have today just with a lot more wasted lives and money spent. This was always going to end with a loss of territory for Ukraine. If Ukraine can walk away from this war like Finland did at the end of the Winter War of 1939 I think that's about as good an outcome as can be achieved. The main points will be for Ukraine to have the freedom to maintain its own miltiary forces without any restrictions on what conventional weapons they can have. As far as Ukraine joining NATO, maybe we can negotiate a cap on that deal where Ukraine would pledge not to join NATO for 30 years or something so that it's not indefinite. Ukraine has a long way to go before it would be fit to join NATO and that time would likely be necessary anyways. Ukraine's economy has been devastated, its population has been devastated (they were already in demographic decline before the war), and they still have systemic issues with corruption not to mention huge issues with their military standarization, structure, and logistics. So, let's not act like Ukraine is ready to join NATO tomorrow with the same standards we held every other nation to previously. Let's get a special envoy together with the best negotiators the West has and stop this carnage. There is Nobel Peace prize in this for the man that can pull this off and a special place in Heaven I'm sure. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 4:00:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think his offer is a good starting point for negotiations on some of the finer points. Establish a De-Militarized Zone (DMZ) and have both sides agree that no additional military assets will be put in place during the cease fire period as all parties work towards a resolution. Let's get the parties in a room and hash out a negotiated settlement now, not three years from now when we end up with the same thing we could have today just with a lot more wasted lives and money spent. This was always going to end with a loss of territory for Ukraine. If Ukraine can walk away from this war like Finland did at the end of the Winter War of 1939 I think that's about as good an outcome as can be achieved. The main points will be for Ukraine to have the freedom to maintain its own miltiary forces without any restrictions on what conventional weapons they can have. As far as Ukraine joining NATO, maybe we can negotiate a cap on that deal where Ukraine would pledge not to join NATO for 30 years or something so that it's not indefinite. Ukraine has a long way to go before it would be fit to join NATO and that time would likely be necessary anyways. Ukraine's economy has been devastated, its population has been devastated (they were already in demographic decline before the war), and they still have systemic issues with corruption not to mention huge issues with their military standarization, structure, and logistics. So, let's not act like Ukraine is ready to join NATO tomorrow with the same standards we held every other nation to previously. Let's get a special envoy together with the best negotiators the West has and stop this carnage. There is Nobel Peace prize in this for the man that can pull this off and a special place in Heaven I'm sure. Soooo Give Russia some breathing room to rebuild and attack again hoping next round US/EU don't care and support Ukraine? The only way Russia doesn't try again is if UA joins NATO and the US establishes a permanent presence, ala South Korea. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 4:16:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Soooo Give Russia some breathing room to rebuild and attack again hoping next round US/EU don't care and support Ukraine? The only way Russia doesn't try again is if UA joins NATO and the US establishes a permanent presence, ala South Korea. Russia has breathing room, it's called all of Russia. Ukraine doesn't have breathing room at all, as all of Ukraine is vulnerable to attack by Russia from the air. Finland didn't join NATO until recently, didn't join any military alliance after the Winter War of 1939. They made a deal with the madman Stalin and the Russians kept to it. Ukraine is trying to build one of the largest conventional militaries on the planet without any real domestic miltiary industrial capacity and while under assault. It's not working out well and it's definitely far from ideal. Ukraine needs peace for its security, Ukraine needs the breathing room. Ukraine is completely reliant on foreign aid, which could be reduced or eliminated at any point. Ukraine needs time, a lot of time and right now they don't have it.  |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 4:22:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We sure didnt have a problem getting French help while we fought the redcoats. Yeah this place is different than it was back then, but lets be real about our history. That's not how this works. Look at the Putinbros in this thread lying in nearly every post. You can't allow facts to get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 4:34:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No one should trust Putin, but he primarily wants access for his oil pipelines and shipping routes. Perhaps a low tariff long-term deal would entice him to end the war and go back to the where they started on land borders. Ukraine can never be part of NATO for any peace deal to work. Tell us you know nothing about the conflict without saying you don't know anything about it. Putin and his cronies don't believe in Ukraine's right to exist as a separate sovereign nation. That's what it's fundamentally about. Which means Ukraine has to be part of NATO for any peace deal to work. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 4:48:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Logistics. Those areas bordered Russia, and made it easy to move Russian troops and weapons across the border. They tried it in Odessa and were wiped out like cockroaches. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it's that easy to "astroturf" then why did it only work in regions where primarily Russian people lived…. Logistics. Those areas bordered Russia, and made it easy to move Russian troops and weapons across the border. They tried it in Odessa and were wiped out like cockroaches. They also tried it in Kharkiv, Mariupol and others. Donetsk and Luhansk were the only cities where the FSB agents and their allies didn't get beat by the (Russian-speaking) locals. Also, where the Russians were not able to block elections in 2014, the pro-western parties won a plurality of votes in Donbas, not the pro-Russian. Polls showed strong public support for remaining with Ukraine, including among Russian speakers. 2014 was purely Russian aggression. These are documented facts. Russian agents like Kihn keep spouting their own fictions. Is it harsh to call someone a Russian agent? Not if they consistently post debunked, false Kremlin talking points. Maybe that account is still controlled by an American. But we know Americans can be Russian agents too. BTW, nobody was hassled for speaking Russian in Ukraine, but in Russian-occupied territory, the occupiers harass and oppress Ukrainian speakers bigtime. Russian language material was freely available in Donbas in the years prior to 2014. But Ukrainian language material is banned now. Russian occupiers are Nazis. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 7:42:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Putinistas demonstrating remarkable flexibility shoving their heads that far up their own ass.
"They are taking money from us!" Your cash was never the issue it was "Our cash" "We" regard it as money well spent. Get bent. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 8:55:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putinistas demonstrating remarkable flexibility shoving their heads that far up their own ass. "They are taking money from us!" Your cash was never the issue it was "Our cash" "We" regard it as money well spent. Get bent. How about you stop doing that, okay? Been a ton of skirting the line in this thread as well as very plain attempts to troll and it's tiresome. Nick |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 9:05:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These are documented facts. Russian agents like Kihn keep spouting their own fictions. Is it harsh to call someone a Russian agent? Not if they consistently post debunked, false Kremlin talking points. Maybe that account is still controlled by an American. But we know Americans can be Russian agents too. BTW, nobody was hassled for speaking Russian in Ukraine, but in Russian-occupied territory, the occupiers harass and oppress Ukrainian speakers bigtime. Russian language material was freely available in Donbas in the years prior to 2014. But Ukrainian language material is banned now. Russian occupiers are Nazis. "These are documented facts" "Debunked, false, Kremlin Talking Points" "Russian Agent" Wow let this be a warning to anyone else who might think of disagreeing with the state department's narrative about a 10 year old regime change |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 9:28:53 PM EDT
[#45]
U.S. ATACMs destroyed the mighty Russian S-400 system. Russia rolling out the S-500 to replace.
 Ukraine's ATACMS Fire On Crimea Pushes Russia To Deploy S-500, Kyiv Planning Kerch Bridge Attack? |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 9:49:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putinistas demonstrating remarkable flexibility shoving their heads that far up their own ass. "They are taking money from us!" Your cash was never the issue it was "Our cash" "We" regard it as money well spent. Get bent. What can I say? Globalists cheerleaders love getting screwed over by their elites and taking it up the booty. You do you. And keep those cheeks puckered up, they like it when you do that. The rest of us don't want to get involved in EVERY conflict around the globe between groups that have nothing to do with us or our actual interests. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 10:05:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Classic Kihn, posting on full auto when you get called out on your bullshit. Dude. I don't, and have never, posted in fullauto! At least you are making it interesting and fun. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 10:06:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you glitching out? I am a simulation. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 10:08:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Soros and Stalin both spoke Esperanto and the globohomos are trying to get your kids to learn it too in mixed race classrooms. I doubt Stalin would speak would evar, never be caught dead speaking Esperanto. He was from Georgia. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 10:18:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I doubt Stalin would speak would evar, never be caught dead speaking Esperanto. He was from Georgia. The Soviets of 2024 wouldn't know, they hail him as a Russian hero. |
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