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Posted: 10/7/2019 8:50:12 PM EDT
[#1]
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Which one? @strike6 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/44277/Screen_Shot_2019-10-07_at_7_35_52_PM_png-1116408.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you want a really good book on the matter, read A HIGHER FORM OF KILLING. It's scary stuff. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/44277/Screen_Shot_2019-10-07_at_7_35_52_PM_png-1116408.JPG 
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Posted: 10/7/2019 8:56:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had the first one checked out from the library for quite some time in jr high I found it pretty interesting and read it several times. I would probably be scrutinized today for the stuff that I checked out back then. They don't have the second one. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 8:57:42 PM EDT
[#3]
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Do you feel the same way about the Japanese? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The German nation should have been obliterated from the face of the Earth for that Lemay himself believed he’d have been tried as a war criminal if we hadn’t won. Now, I don’t particularly believe there is such a thing as “war crimes.” War is hell, and there’s no refining it. Trying to bring honor or fairness into armed conflict is a fools errand. When you stand on the ashes of a billion dead souls ask them what honor matters. Their silence is your answer. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 9:11:33 PM EDT
[#4]
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Which one? @strike6 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/44277/Screen_Shot_2019-10-07_at_7_35_52_PM_png-1116408.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you want a really good book on the matter, read A HIGHER FORM OF KILLING. It's scary stuff. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/44277/Screen_Shot_2019-10-07_at_7_35_52_PM_png-1116408.JPG The first one with white and yellow cover. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 9:13:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you feel the same way about the Japanese? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The German nation should have been obliterated from the face of the Earth for that Lemay himself believed he’d have been tried as a war criminal if we hadn’t won. Now, I don’t particularly believe there is such a thing as “war crimes.” War is hell, and there’s no refining it. Trying to bring honor or fairness into armed conflict is a fools errand. When you stand on the ashes of a billion dead souls ask them what honor matters. Their silence is your answer. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 9:14:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @rlltd42 The first one with white and yellow cover. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 9:16:41 PM EDT
[#7]
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There was no legitimate military value to the use of gas in WW1? Oookay then. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gas was brand new. It's indiscriminate, there was no possible way to prepare for it mentally, and there was no way to shoot straighter, or faster, or parry a bayonet more effectively. Imagine if our enemies right now had a weapon (like nanotech, or something else), that could melt you no matter what PPE you wore, and killed everything in its path. . It was absolutely right for us to use the A-bombs, many times over.
There was no legitimate military value to the use of gas in WW1? Oookay then. Don't think that I'm some peace-loving hippie, but we do abide by the law of war/law of armed conflict, and we still maintain the ability to conduct a reprisal (look it up), though we have not. Many enemies in the latter half of the twentieth century and all of the twenty-first would certainly qualify for them. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 9:18:52 PM EDT
[#8]
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Which way? I'm not sure what you mean? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The German nation should have been obliterated from the face of the Earth for that Lemay himself believed he’d have been tried as a war criminal if we hadn’t won. Now, I don’t particularly believe there is such a thing as “war crimes.” War is hell, and there’s no refining it. Trying to bring honor or fairness into armed conflict is a fools errand. When you stand on the ashes of a billion dead souls ask them what honor matters. Their silence is your answer. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 9:24:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gas was brand new. It's indiscriminate, there was no possible way to prepare for it mentally, and there was no way to shoot straighter, or faster, or parry a bayonet more effectively. Imagine if our enemies right now had a weapon (like nanotech, or something else), that could melt you no matter what PPE you wore, and killed everything in its path. Men slowly drowned in their own bodily fluids. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 9:25:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Absolutely horrific.
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Posted: 10/7/2019 9:28:46 PM EDT
[#11]
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Did the Japanese commit war crimes? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The German nation should have been obliterated from the face of the Earth for that Lemay himself believed he’d have been tried as a war criminal if we hadn’t won. Now, I don’t particularly believe there is such a thing as “war crimes.” War is hell, and there’s no refining it. Trying to bring honor or fairness into armed conflict is a fools errand. When you stand on the ashes of a billion dead souls ask them what honor matters. Their silence is your answer. If we'd lost to them, as we like to do now, it would have been very different. Hell, now we like to sit down and negotiate with the animals who butcher our soldiers. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 9:48:33 PM EDT
[#12]
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Exactly. Before that, the limiting factor in food production was nitrogen fertilizer. We couldn't feed the world without it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano_Islands_Act |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 9:49:50 PM EDT
[#13]
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Sounds like they deserve to win then to me. Am I missing something? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gas was brand new. It's indiscriminate, there was no possible way to prepare for it mentally, and there was no way to shoot straighter, or faster, or parry a bayonet more effectively. Imagine if our enemies right now had a weapon (like nanotech, or something else), that could melt you no matter what PPE you wore, and killed everything in its path. Men slowly drowned in their own bodily fluids. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 9:51:33 PM EDT
[#14]
My 6th grade teacher was gassed in WW1. Lost his voice and could only whisper.
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Posted: 10/7/2019 10:02:00 PM EDT
[#15]
I can’t begin to imagine being in a gas attack.
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Posted: 10/7/2019 10:07:13 PM EDT
[#16]
I read "A Higher Form Of Killing" when I was a teenager in the 80s. It left a mark.
When I went through the breech in 1991 with 2/5 I had that detector paper hanging off me in sheets. Guys made fun of me lol. Fuck gas. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 10:10:36 PM EDT
[#17]
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On the run up to the 1st Gulf War, we were shown smuggled video of Iraqi troops gassing Kurds. It was horrifying. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_attacks_against_Iran |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 10:13:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Other scientists and engineers would say "sure", because they're smart enough to realize that without competitive weapons a person or nation is at the mercy of another. 
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Posted: 10/7/2019 10:15:35 PM EDT
[#19]
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But being disemboweled by the 2' long bayonet was ok!.... |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 10:18:21 PM EDT
[#20]
I've always been fascinated by this topic, mainly because the Army dumped unspecified munitions offshore in one of my favorite fishing grounds. There was so much of this crap around after WWII that all the countries on both sides loaded entire ships with the stuff, towed them offshore and scuttled them. The Brits alone sank over 20 freighters full. They dumped over two million tons of mixed munitions right off their coast.
There is still a bunch around, An arsenal in Kentucky is still destroying WWII mustard gas stockpiles. Here's a story with an interactive map. dump sites. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 10:22:20 PM EDT
[#21]
i HAVE A 1032 PRINTED COPY OF A BOOK CALLED 50 STORIES OF THE GREAT WAR . THE STORY OF THE FIRST TANK ON TANK ENGAGEMENT BEGINS WITH THE NARRATOR DESCRIBING THE SOUND OF THE CROWS THAT WERE CHOKED BY THE CHLORINE GAS . hE SAID THEY MORE CROAKED THAN CALLED.
SINCE WE ARE TAKING CREEPY STORIES- AFTER THE Orlando NIGHT CLUB SHOOTING ENDED THE DETECTIVES ON THE SCENE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH ANYTHING & THEY HAD TO TALK OVER THE DOZENS OF CELL PHONES RINGING FROM THE PILES OF CORPSES calls from family & friends trying to find if they're love one was OK In North Tanzania in WW1 the Germans had a trench line on the foot hills of KilimanjaroThe brits gathered what horses they could & charged the lines the attack was stopped after 400 yards not by machine guns but buy lions stalking the horses & riders.  the southern contingent and bitter street-fighting by the harbor force. The Gurkhas of the Kashmiri Rifles and the 2nd Loyal North Lancashire Regiment of the harbour contingent made good progress; they entered the town, captured the customs house, and Hotel Deutscher Kaiser and ran up the Union Jack. But then the advance was stopped.[10] Less-well trained and equipped Indian battalions of the 27th (Bangalore) Brigade scattered and ran away from the battle. The 98th Infantry were attacked by swarms of angry bees and broke up. The bees attacked the Germans as well, hence the battle's nickname.[11] British propaganda transformed the bee interlude into a fiendish German plot, conjuring up hidden trip wires to agitate the hives |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 10:50:31 PM EDT
[#22]
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Yeah, didn’t Hiram Maxim say something like that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sounds like a good way to end a war quickly |
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Posted: 10/8/2019 11:46:20 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m pretty sure Curtis Lemay killed more civilians in Tokyo with fire than the Germans killed soldiers with gas. Lemay himself believed he’d have been tried as a war criminal if we hadn’t won. Now, I don’t particularly believe there is such a thing as “war crimes.” War is hell, and there’s no refining it. Trying to bring honor or fairness into armed conflict is a fools errand. When you stand on the ashes of a billion dead souls ask them what honor matters. Their silence is your answer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The German nation should have been obliterated from the face of the Earth for that Lemay himself believed he’d have been tried as a war criminal if we hadn’t won. Now, I don’t particularly believe there is such a thing as “war crimes.” War is hell, and there’s no refining it. Trying to bring honor or fairness into armed conflict is a fools errand. When you stand on the ashes of a billion dead souls ask them what honor matters. Their silence is your answer. |
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Posted: 10/8/2019 11:51:48 AM EDT
[#24]
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I think that I gave them a tiny bit of understanding when I described the horror of it all to them. But no amounts of telling can stifle the need for us to recognize that IT MUST NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I try to explain the gruesome and epic scale of death and destruction associated with WWI to my students but most have difficulty really placing that into perspective. But no amounts of telling can stifle the need for us to recognize that IT MUST NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. |
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Posted: 10/8/2019 11:57:17 AM EDT
[#25]
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I would say it was arguably more legitimate, as it affected only soldiers engaged in warfare. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gas was brand new. It's indiscriminate, there was no possible way to prepare for it mentally, and there was no way to shoot straighter, or faster, or parry a bayonet more effectively. Imagine if our enemies right now had a weapon (like nanotech, or something else), that could melt you no matter what PPE you wore, and killed everything in its path. . It was absolutely right for us to use the A-bombs, many times over.
There was no legitimate military value to the use of gas in WW1? Oookay then. |
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Posted: 10/8/2019 12:12:22 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 10/8/2019 2:48:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've always been fascinated by this topic, mainly because the Army dumped unspecified munitions offshore in one of my favorite fishing grounds. There was so much of this crap around after WWII that all the countries on both sides loaded entire ships with the stuff, towed them offshore and scuttled them. The Brits alone sank over 20 freighters full. They dumped over two million tons of mixed munitions right off their coast.
There is still a bunch around, An arsenal in Kentucky is still destroying WWII mustard gas stockpiles. Here's a story with an interactive map. dump sites. Scary |
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Posted: 10/8/2019 3:21:23 PM EDT
[#28]
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Nobel said the same thing as he invented smokeless powder. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah, didn't Hiram Maxim say something like that? - R.J. Gatling |
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Posted: 10/8/2019 4:14:07 PM EDT
[#29]
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Gas targeted only soldiers, but in the long term accomplished little apart from adding another dimension of misery to the war. The atomic bombs targeted military and civilians indiscriminately, but arguably saved many more lives than they took by helping convince a fanatical enemy to surrender. The moral calculus of war is not as simple as some would like it to be. |
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Posted: 10/9/2019 1:11:36 PM EDT
[#30]
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The US was cranking out mustard gas artillery shells. So many were left at war's end that they just buried them - in the area of Maryland near Washington, DC. Construction crews over the past few decades keep digging them up.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Had the French, Brits, or even Americans perfected gas first, they likely would have used it sooner. War is horrific. Think about the USA dropping atomic bombs on cities in Japan. Evil. It was a necessary evil. So many were left at war's end that they just buried them - in the area of Maryland near Washington, DC. Construction crews over the past few decades keep digging them up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_John_Harvey |
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Posted: 10/9/2019 1:27:20 PM EDT
[#31]
 The Father Of Poison Gas - Fritz Haber I WHO DID WHAT IN WW1? |
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Posted: 10/9/2019 1:28:57 PM EDT
[#32]
 Attack of the Dead Men (Strange Stories)  Sabaton - Attack Of The Dead Men [Lyric Video] |
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Posted: 10/9/2019 1:34:00 PM EDT
[#33]
some of you might find this interesting. Also, occurred just outside Ypres, Belgium in a little town called Wijtschaete (Whitesheet).
This week more than 80 soldiers who perished during the Great War will finally be laid to rest with full military honours close to where they fell on the Western Front. To follow the old, but not yet archived thread on the DigHill80 project-which i happened to help out in on 2 trips, see https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Official-Dig-of-WW1-German-Trench-in-Wijtschate-Belgium-Last-Day/5-2061221/ |
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Posted: 10/9/2019 2:10:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In WWII an American ship loaded with mustard gas was bombed in an Italian port, causing casualties from the mustard gas. So we were even considering its use in that war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_John_Harvey |
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Posted: 10/9/2019 3:50:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In WWII an American ship loaded with mustard gas was bombed in an Italian port, causing casualties from the mustard gas. So we were even considering its use in that war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_John_Harvey ETA: Didn't refresh before posting.
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Posted: 10/9/2019 4:13:51 PM EDT
[#36]
You just want to fight a nice war?
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Posted: 10/9/2019 5:04:27 PM EDT
[#37]
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You just want to fight a nice war? "Pardon me." "Yes, my good man?" **BOOM** "I'm awfully sorry about that." |
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