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Link Posted: 3/30/2013 1:59:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Well, I've got no experience in a gunfight.  So.....  I'm not going to argue with you.  

I shoot my revolver and practice reloading it. And dry fire, and practice draws.   That's the extent of my training.  I know I need more.  

As far as my wife, I've tried to show her the push pull method and I'm probably just not a good teacher.  She can rack my M9.  But just barely.   It's really hard and she can't do any other pistol I have.  But she CAN work a revolver RIGHT NOW.  So....  there is some value in that.  The same goes for my Mom.  My Dad bought her an M&P 9mm full size a few years ago and she can't do the slide either.  And she's not really weak.  So...  I would imagine she could learn.  I linked her the "cornered cat" website and I have to follow up with her to see if she looked it over.  

Anyways...  Your points are taken.
Link Posted: 3/30/2013 4:06:37 PM EDT
[#2]





Quoted:



Well, I've got no experience in a gunfight.  So.....  I'm not going to argue with you.  





I shoot my revolver and practice reloading it. And dry fire, and practice draws.   That's the extent of my training.  I know I need more.  





As far as my wife, I've tried to show her the push pull method and I'm probably just not a good teacher.  She can rack my M9.  But just barely.   It's really hard and she can't do any other pistol I have.  But she CAN work a revolver RIGHT NOW.  So....  there is some value in that.  The same goes for my Mom.  My Dad bought her an M&P 9mm full size a few years ago and she can't do the slide either.  And she's not really weak.  So...  I would imagine she could learn.  I linked her the "cornered cat" website and I have to follow up with her to see if she looked it over.  





Anyways...  Your points are taken.



For your wife, I'd spend the money and find a local range that does a handgun intro/ buyers guide type shoot.   I know NRA classes can be super affordable as well.





Teaching ladies can be hard, because it gets frustrating, and they pick up on that and become frustrated too and then stop learning, it's that much harder when it's a spouse.  


Think of it this way,  how is it possible for her to pull a 10-12 pound revolver trigger with one finger, but not a 13 pound Beretta slide with both hands?





It's all about coordination and experience.   Keeping both arms extended and rigid, then using the shoulders to push/pull works well.





I'd recommend checking out a local IDPA practice league.   While the rules that dictate the tactics you use to shoot IDPA are sort of wonky, it's a cheap easy way to get practicing shooting and moving while having to think, under time.  Standing on the firing line doing pratice is great, but only for practicing fundamentals.
Plus, it's interesting when you do it for awhile, to see just how hard it is for people to shoot accurately doing anything but standing in one spot.
 
 
Link Posted: 3/30/2013 10:01:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Good points.  Thank you for them.
Link Posted: 4/9/2013 10:12:48 AM EDT
[#4]
There is a couple of things I would like to bring up to you Madcap.   And it's not necessarily to argue, but to just make some points that I think are valid.

First off, the thing about my wife not being able to pull back on a 13lb spring.  That's not entirely true.  You're forgetting the hammer spring.  I don't know exactly what that equates to with striker fired weapons.  It's probably less.  And really, I forget what the m9 hammer spring weight is.  But it's there.  So it's more than 13 lbs.  For example, my Hipower has a 32 lb mainsspring with a 17 lbs recoils spring.  That's 49 lbs.  At least that's how I see it.  That's why a lot of people learn to cock their hipowers when they're just manipulating for field stripping and such.  I don't think it's quite as stiff on a lot of other pistols.  I forget what a 1911's mainspring is.  But I don't think it's that much.

Anyways....

Another thing I like about revolvers, is you don't have to find out if a certain bullet profile will feed or not.  They will.  And as far as the cylinder rubbing on something, the same can be said for an auto.  I'm not sure how a revolver would be affecting any more or any less than if something was rubbbing against an auto.  Sounds like a malf waiting to happen.  And furthermore, if you're slide goes oob a little bit from pressing on something, it won't fire.  Like pressed against a person.  Not saying I plan on being that close, but whatever.

You say that there are no good reasons for carrying a revolver other than nostalgia.  And I really disagree.  I'm not saying the pros are better on the revolver.  But what I am saying is that they do have their upsides.  And if you don't agree.  That's fine.  We'll agree to disagree.  But there are some Men that I respect their opinion that carry revolvers as their primaries sometimes.  

Link Posted: 4/9/2013 11:13:15 AM EDT
[#5]



Quoted:


There is a couple of things I would like to bring up to you Madcap.   And it's not necessarily to argue, but to just make some points that I think are valid.



First off, the thing about my wife not being able to pull back on a 13lb spring.  That's not entirely true.  You're forgetting the hammer spring.  I don't know exactly what that equates to with striker fired weapons.  It's probably less.  And really, I forget what the m9 hammer spring weight is.  But it's there.  So it's more than 13 lbs.  For example, my Hipower has a 32 lb mainsspring with a 17 lbs recoils spring.  That's 49 lbs.  At least that's how I see it.  That's why a lot of people learn to cock their hipowers when they're just manipulating for field stripping and such.  I don't think it's quite as stiff on a lot of other pistols.  I forget what a 1911's mainspring is.  But I don't think it's that much.



Anyways....



Another thing I like about revolvers, is you don't have to find out if a certain bullet profile will feed or not.  They will.  And as far as the cylinder rubbing on something, the same can be said for an auto.  I'm not sure how a revolver would be affecting any more or any less than if something was rubbbing against an auto.  Sounds like a malf waiting to happen.  And furthermore, if you're slide goes oob a little bit from pressing on something, it won't fire.  Like pressed against a person.  Not saying I plan on being that close, but whatever.



You say that there are no good reasons for carrying a revolver other than nostalgia.  And I really disagree.  I'm not saying the pros are better on the revolver.  But what I am saying is that they do have their upsides.  And if you don't agree.  That's fine.  We'll agree to disagree.  But there are some Men that I respect their opinion that carry revolvers as their primaries sometimes.  





Recoil spring weights are weird.   A 1911 mainspring is someplace in the area of 23 lbs. BUT, it's compressed by the hammer qhich acts as a fulcrum so when charging a pistol you're not overcoming that entire weight.





That's why you can cock the hammer as simply as brushing it across your leg.  The spring weights are not additive.  Plus, the hammer spring is compressed in a fraction of the movement of the slide, that's the initial hurdle that most people have a problem with.  The second is keeping their arms stiff finishing the stroke of the slide, and not alowing the gun to limply travel with the slide.



The "push pull" fixes that.  It's mostly a muscle memory and   mental thing.  Ladies can't do it at first so they think it's hard, and since they think it's hard they don't put effort into it. Some even have a hard time because they don't understand the gun is tough and you  can be aggressive with it.





IIRC between classes and private lessons I've instructed at least 80-100 ladies, between 18 and late 60's.  I've never had ONE that was physically incapable of racking the slide of any 9mm we used on the line.   Like I said, if 50 year old ladies with arthritic hands can rack a GLOCK 19, Sig 226, or M9, I am fairly certain your wife will be able to. No guarantee's, but with proper technique and familiarty I'm pretty confident.
As far as revolvers, especially DA revolvers, you have to experience it to get it.  I can talk about it all day long, but it will not convey the same feeling as when you realize how disadvantaged you are with a revolver.  For me it was going from a 1911 to a Smith Model 13 in IDPA.  The first reload into it I realized how ponderous and slow revolvers really are.  They are great for a square range, or if it's all you have, but man...   when it comes to the skills to fight with them?   They are lame.





To put in perspective My SLOWEST 1911 reload, is as fast as my fastest revolver reload.  Using Safariland comp 2's, I can reload my revolver faster than some people reload their semi-auto's.
 
Link Posted: 4/9/2013 11:26:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Just some observations and experiences.  I'm pressed for time and would like to explain how I came about them a little bit more.
 
Link Posted: 4/9/2013 11:36:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Oh, also, it's disparaging to say just women have problems with racking slides, more than a few men I've instructed have had problems for the same reasons as well.
My buddy is WEAK in his hands, a life of never doing labor, and I got  him to charge my 10mm witness with a 22 pound recoil spring consistently.
That things a BITCH until you get the hand strength.    Heavy ass spring and a very small area to grasp.


 
Link Posted: 4/9/2013 11:47:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Well, if were over in Iran, I'd bring my wife for some teaching.  

Is there a video for that push pull?  I've been on that website "cornered cat" and tried to show her those techniques, but it didn't seem to work.  Maybe I'll review that all again and try again.  I hear that sometimes the best teacher is somebody else though.  She's not real motivated to shoot though.  She got real scared the first time we went shooting and it has been a battle since then.  She has made some progress though.  That first time I was with a friend, we went indoors and he's kind of a wildman.  He had a .44 magnum and he was rapid firing it.  It's not how I do things and he's not a bad guy, but he can be a little crazy sometimes.  Well we were right by the wall and you could just feel the recoil bouncing off the wall and all around.  Her eyes were as big as saucers and I think she was scared to death.  

We shoot outdoors now.  It's much quieter.  We had muffs on of course, but a .44 magnum, indoors, rapid fire.  My ears were hurting too.  Plus, she had surgery on one of her ears when she was a kid and it's sensitive.  So.......

My point is, shooting has never been her thing.  But shopping isn't really mine either.  hehehehe

Anyways......  

Thanks for the perspective.  I still don't think revolvers are as bad as you say.  And just because they're slow in an IDPA match doesn't make them obsolete.  If you think so, that's OK.  Like I said, not all feel the same way.  I still have a few good reason to use one right now.
Link Posted: 4/10/2013 7:31:23 PM EDT
[#9]
I like revolvers because I can shoot them well and they offer incredible inherent accuracy. They are not for everyone. They are my choice when it comes to having a lot of power in a relatively compact package.
Link Posted: 4/10/2013 8:04:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are dead set on a Smith N frame .44 look at the Smith 329 Night Guard, its the ideal CCW .44 Mag., short bbl, lightweight and night sights.  The 329 PD with either 2.5" or 4" bbl will also work.  Made to be carried alot and shot less.  I had no problem carrying my Smith 58 concealed in Alsaka last Oct when there.  Get a good belt and couple of good holsters.  IWB will be harder to conceal as the thickness of the cylinder as its right at the waistline (get pants one size larger).  Try a good hi ride OWB holster that keeps it drawn close to the side.  Ammo either .44 Spls or mid velocity .44 mags with a JHP for in town use.  Out in the boonies full cast bullets.  My .41 mag I carried I used Win 175gr STHP for anti personnel use in town and would switch to 265gr WFN for anti bear use.

329NG
329PD Backpacker


CD


I was gonna' say the same thing. I've been drooling over the Night Gaurd line too.


I have been looking more and more at the Nightguards also.  Too bad they were discontinued.  I really wanted a 325 NG.
Link Posted: 4/10/2013 8:50:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
The Marshal and Sanow stuff has been so thoroughly debunked I'm amazed the name comes up any more.  


Exactly, anyone quoting M and S loses all credibility... same thing with Chuck Hawks.
Link Posted: 4/11/2013 10:46:40 AM EDT
[#12]



Quoted:


I like revolvers because I can shoot them well and they offer incredible inherent accuracy. They are not for everyone. They are my choice when it comes to having a lot of power in a relatively compact package.


What is power when it comes to CCW?   What is "a lot of power"?



What would you think is more powerful?  5 rounds of .357 from a j  frame?  Or 8 rounds of 9mm from something like a LC9?



What if both offer similar penetration?
 
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