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Posted: 4/19/2009 12:44:16 PM EDT
[#1]
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now those anti-piston guys have proof of a broken bolt! too bad it's the wrong bolt. 
We are not "anti-piston". We are pro-engineering. And having to use a CALIBRATED torque wrench smells of bad engineering. Why? Torque is highly influenced by friction. It would have been far better to use torque to yield fasteners and a fastener without the liability of a shoulder bolt. While you obviously have some sort of engineering background, it appears that most of your comments are directed towards things you have no first hand experience with. I'd be willing to bet that you don't own an MRP rifle, or a piston AR for that matter. I won't own something with obivious design deficiencies. The ONLY way a piston upper can be made with aluminum upper receiver is a double piston, one on each side. Anything else will cause off-axis rotation of the bolt and subsequent wear of an aluminum receiver/buffer tube. Utter nonsense. Wear is not a dirty word. Wear is only a problem if it compromises operation. What sort of failure mode are you positing from a little assymetric wear? Any examples of such a failure? There are plenty of folks who have run piston-based AR's into the ground... and while there have been failures, I'm unaware of ANY related to receiver wear. |
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Posted: 4/19/2009 2:16:57 PM EDT
[#2]
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Could you supply a link or part number for that wrench? I can't seem to find that model on the website. It looks like it's perfect for the job. Also, does anyone have a part number for the bolts and double washer package that LMT is sending you guys? I want to get a couple sets just for peace of mind. Thanks The part # for the wrench is Precision Instruments D2F150HM. You can find it sometimes on ebay for around $125. They have a version that doesn't have the memory needle that cost less. The Part # for the MRP bolts is #L7S1D. It's $10.70 each. Here |
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Posted: 4/23/2009 7:42:36 PM EDT
[#3]
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Could you supply a link or part number for that wrench? I can't seem to find that model on the website. It looks like it's perfect for the job. Also, does anyone have a part number for the bolts and double washer package that LMT is sending you guys? I want to get a couple sets just for peace of mind. Thanks The part # for the wrench is Precision Instruments D2F150HM. You can find it sometimes on ebay for around $125. They have a version that doesn't have the memory needle that cost less. The Part # for the MRP bolts is #L7S1D. It's $10.70 each. Here There isn't a part # for the washer. I email LMT and ask them for the part # because I wanted some spares just in case I lose them in the field. They sent me a couple of washers free of charge and I got them today. 
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Posted: 4/23/2009 11:13:46 PM EDT
[#4]
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now those anti-piston guys have proof of a broken bolt! too bad it's the wrong bolt.
We are not "anti-piston". We are pro-engineering. And having to use a CALIBRATED torque wrench smells of bad engineering. Why? Torque is highly influenced by friction. It would have been far better to use torque to yield fasteners and a fastener without the liability of a shoulder bolt. While you obviously have some sort of engineering background, it appears that most of your comments are directed towards things you have no first hand experience with. I'd be willing to bet that you don't own an MRP rifle, or a piston AR for that matter. I won't own something with obivious design deficiencies. The ONLY way a piston upper can be made with aluminum upper receiver is a double piston, one on each side. Anything else will cause off-axis rotation of the bolt and subsequent wear of an aluminum receiver/buffer tube. Utter nonsense. Wear is not a dirty word. Wear is only a problem if it compromises operation. What sort of failure mode are you positing from a little assymetric wear? Any examples of such a failure? There are plenty of folks who have run piston-based AR's into the ground... and while there have been failures, I'm unaware of ANY related to receiver wear. SILENCE! KEITH_J HAS SPOKEN! HOW DARE YOU DISAGREE, WITH YOUR LOGIC AND RATIONAL QUESTIONS! YOU CLEARLY ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO COMPREHEND! Don't let the fact that there are plenty of piston ARs with 10,000s of rounds through them with no failures related to receiver wear get to you ... clearly they are all junk, and anyone who buys one is a first rate idiot. Just ask Keith_J, he will tell you. |
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Posted: 5/10/2009 7:41:03 AM EDT
[#5]
So I broke my first bolt this morning––the wrench never clicked (and it was taped with the calibration sticker).
When I try removing it the bolt, it just keeps spinning and spinning without coming out any. Suggestions anyone? |
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Posted: 5/21/2009 7:48:54 PM EDT
[#6]
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So I broke my first bolt this morning––the wrench never clicked (and it was taped with the calibration sticker). When I try removing it the bolt, it just keeps spinning and spinning without coming out any. Suggestions anyone? Ouch. The LMT torque wrench struck again. I would get rid of that wrench quick and get the one I posted on bottom of page 4. So did you get the bolt out? |
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Posted: 5/21/2009 8:31:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Sucks to have to spend more money for a torque wrench.. but worth the investment.
That being said.. anyone want to buy a LMT wrench? 
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Posted: 5/21/2009 10:32:55 PM EDT
[#8]
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More accurate methods are snug plus some degree of turning. This is correct, and it's precisely why a certain motorcycle manufacturer tells you not to use a torque wrench during the final sequence when bolting down their cylinder heads. It's a matter of rotation. I don't own an MRP, but if I did I wouldn't be using the supplied click-type torque wrench when installing the barrel. Get some new fasteners from LMT, and buy a better torque wrench that has been calibrated to the required torque rating. Even if LMT offered to send me a new torque wrench, I wouldn't use it. |
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Posted: 5/21/2009 10:58:24 PM EDT
[#9]
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Utter nonsense. Wear is not a dirty word. Wear is only a problem if it compromises operation. What sort of failure mode are you positing from a little assymetric wear? Any examples of such a failure? There are plenty of folks who have run piston-based AR's into the ground... and while there have been failures, I'm unaware of ANY related to receiver wear. Carrier tilt caused my (properly fastened) castle nut to come loose. The stock twisted while I was moving and the buffer retainer thingy & spring moved. The rifle stopped working. |
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Posted: 5/22/2009 10:14:52 AM EDT
[#10]
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Utter nonsense. Wear is not a dirty word. Wear is only a problem if it compromises operation. What sort of failure mode are you positing from a little assymetric wear? Any examples of such a failure? There are plenty of folks who have run piston-based AR's into the ground... and while there have been failures, I'm unaware of ANY related to receiver wear. Carrier tilt caused my (properly fastened) castle nut to come loose. The stock twisted while I was moving and the buffer retainer thingy & spring moved. The rifle stopped working. What kind of piston system was it? |
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Posted: 5/22/2009 10:28:40 AM EDT
[#11]
OP here, for what it's worth I never bothered to get a new torque wrench ... I just used a normal wrench and made them nice and tight without really torquing them down.
2000 rounds later they are still tight as a virgin ... so good to go in my book. If I ever get another MRP barrel and swap them often I'll get a proper torque wrench, but for now there are other priorities. The piston MRP is fucking great by the way . 
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Posted: 5/22/2009 11:40:37 AM EDT
[#12]
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Utter nonsense. Wear is not a dirty word. Wear is only a problem if it compromises operation. What sort of failure mode are you positing from a little assymetric wear? Any examples of such a failure? There are plenty of folks who have run piston-based AR's into the ground... and while there have been failures, I'm unaware of ANY related to receiver wear. Carrier tilt caused my (properly fastened) castle nut to come loose. The stock twisted while I was moving and the buffer retainer thingy & spring moved. The rifle stopped working. You can actually say that carrier tilt caused your castle nut to come loose!!! How???????? Sounds like a loose castle nut could be caused by any number of things, so to say that carrier tilt positively caused your castle nut to come loose is purely speculation on your part!!! |
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Posted: 5/22/2009 11:51:12 AM EDT
[#13]
After reading way to much of this thread for only 2 folks that i read that actual had it happen. I think this thread speaks volumes why the mrp system is the pace setter. I mean come on here, if the worst thing about a lmt mrp is the torque wrench which wasnt even made by them.. I tell u what give me time and i will buy ever single mrp on here...lol. I wish!
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Posted: 5/22/2009 12:40:51 PM EDT
[#14]
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After reading way to much of this thread for only 2 folks that i read that actual had it happen. I think this thread speaks volumes why the mrp system is the pace setter. I mean come on here, if the worst thing about a lmt mrp is the torque wrench which wasnt even made by them.. I tell u what give me time and i will buy ever single mrp on here...lol. I wish! The MRP is sick. No two ways about it. That said, if I HAD to make a complaint, the finish on the interior of my receiver has some weird marks, as does the bolt carrier ... oh noes, mah internal finish be flawed! 
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Posted: 5/22/2009 12:54:55 PM EDT
[#15]
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Utter nonsense. Wear is not a dirty word. Wear is only a problem if it compromises operation. What sort of failure mode are you positing from a little assymetric wear? Any examples of such a failure? There are plenty of folks who have run piston-based AR's into the ground... and while there have been failures, I'm unaware of ANY related to receiver wear. Carrier tilt caused my (properly fastened) castle nut to come loose. The stock twisted while I was moving and the buffer retainer thingy & spring moved. The rifle stopped working. You can actually say that carrier tilt caused your castle nut to come loose!!! How???????? Sounds like a loose castle nut could be caused by any number of things, so to say that carrier tilt positively caused your castle nut to come loose is purely speculation on your part!!! Bullshit. |
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Posted: 5/22/2009 12:56:59 PM EDT
[#16]
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Utter nonsense. Wear is not a dirty word. Wear is only a problem if it compromises operation. What sort of failure mode are you positing from a little assymetric wear? Any examples of such a failure? There are plenty of folks who have run piston-based AR's into the ground... and while there have been failures, I'm unaware of ANY related to receiver wear. Carrier tilt caused my (properly fastened) castle nut to come loose. The stock twisted while I was moving and the buffer retainer thingy & spring moved. The rifle stopped working. What kind of piston system was it? Ares. I could tighten it and the carrier tilt (evident by wear on RET and inside receiver) did indeed cause the nut to come loose. Again. And again. With no other external factors. And when that lower was used with a DI upper it never came loose, before or after. Lesson learned, staked castle nuts are very important, more so with piston ARs. |
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Posted: 5/22/2009 1:48:29 PM EDT
[#17]
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After reading way to much of this thread for only 2 folks that i read that actual had it happen. I think this thread speaks volumes why the mrp system is the pace setter. I mean come on here, if the worst thing about a lmt mrp is the torque wrench which wasnt even made by them.. I tell u what give me time and i will buy ever single mrp on here...lol. I wish! That's why I got 2 MRP's in my collection: 
I had the oppurtunity to get another MRP Piston for $1795 yesterday but declined because I think prices will come down further in a few months. |
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Posted: 5/22/2009 2:12:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: OP here, for what it's worth I never bothered to get a new torque wrench ... I just used a normal wrench and made them nice and tight without really torquing them down. 2000 rounds later they are still tight as a virgin ... so good to go in my book. If I ever get another MRP barrel and swap them often I'll get a proper torque wrench, but for now there are other priorities. The piston MRP is fucking great by the way . i was wondering the same thing if there was any issue with just tightening them with a normal wrench and foregoing the LMT torque wrench. Does the exact torque affect the headspacing or accuracy of the barrel/receiver fit? Or is it GTG as long as I get it good and snug? BTW - Just got done shooting my MRP piston today, 500 rounds flawless. |
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Posted: 5/22/2009 3:10:08 PM EDT
[#19]
I love twins pal, and yours are fly.... hopefully i will have my second on monday in mail and i can pose the twins like your very nice ones.
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Posted: 5/22/2009 4:18:53 PM EDT
[#20]
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Utter nonsense. Wear is not a dirty word. Wear is only a problem if it compromises operation. What sort of failure mode are you positing from a little assymetric wear? Any examples of such a failure? There are plenty of folks who have run piston-based AR's into the ground... and while there have been failures, I'm unaware of ANY related to receiver wear. Carrier tilt caused my (properly fastened) castle nut to come loose. The stock twisted while I was moving and the buffer retainer thingy & spring moved. The rifle stopped working. You can actually say that carrier tilt caused your castle nut to come loose!!! How???????? Sounds like a loose castle nut could be caused by any number of things, so to say that carrier tilt positively caused your castle nut to come loose is purely speculation on your part!!! Bullshit. That's my point perfectly!!!
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Posted: 6/1/2009 6:16:04 AM EDT
[#21]
I broke 1 with a Sears wrench. In part it was my fault not knowing what what 130 in lbs felt like
it is not much. Anyway getting the bolts was no problem but getting the jacked up wrench replaced by Sears was. The wrench was basically new except that I keep it in my tool bag so the cosmetic finish wasn't perfect. I argued with the clerk in the tool section until the manager was brought up and there were 5-6 customers behind me still refusing I asked the clerk to put the wrench in the trash for me because it was worthless - he did. That did not go over well with the manager or the customers so I went home with a new wrench.
I'm still nervous every time I use the Sears and the LMT supplied wrench but have a pretty good feel for the weight and have not had any other problem. As far as the screw you don't need a extractor kit for these - you just use a drill bit that just fits, drill it into the hollow bolt, then reverse the drill and it will come out. |
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Posted: 6/1/2009 6:24:22 AM EDT
[#22]
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I broke 1 with a Sears wrench. Really was more my fault not knowing what what 130 in lbs felt like it is not much. Anyway getting the bolts was no problem but getting the jacked up wrench replaced by Sears was. The wrench was basically new except that I keep it in my tool bag so the cosmetic finish wasn't perfect. I argued with the clerk in the tool section until the manager was brought up and there were 5-6 customers behind me still refusing I asked the clerk to put the wrench in the trash for me because it was worthless - he did. That did not go over well with the manager or the customers so I went home with a new wrench.
I'm still nervous every time I use the Sears and the LMT supplied wrench but have a pretty good feel for the weight and have not had any other problem. As far as the screw you don't need a extractor kit for these - you just use a drill bit that just fits, drill it into the hollow bolt, then reverse the drill and it will come out. Those bolts are design to break at around 180-200 in lbs. Most wrenchs have a 4% accuracy. If a wrench have a range of 50-600 inch lbs, that 4% doesn't give it much headroom. I would never use one wher you it set because I don't like to "feel" the click. Get a wrench that actually shows you how much torque is applied. |
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Posted: 7/13/2009 11:41:22 PM EDT
[#23]
OP here, 1500 or so rounds later and the rifle has been flawless with the replacement bolt (which I tightened this time without a torque wrench ... used a regular wrench to make them tight, but not super tight).
It's a badass rifle. 
Bump for a friend, and to keep from archiving, etc |
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Posted: 7/23/2009 6:04:04 PM EDT
[#24]
JUst curious but, has anybody marked their bolts after tightening to see if they come loose ? I have a MRP and was replacing barrels and when i got to the point where she seemed like it was gonna snap i backed off. I took a reliable torque wrench set it to the proper setting and could not get the LMT supplied wrench to "break" at ALL. On another point the XCR has a single bolt underneath the barrel and i never torqued it just set it till snug, and never had it move. just my 2 cents what ever it may be worth.
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Posted: 7/24/2009 12:21:09 AM EDT
[#25]
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JUst curious but, has anybody marked their bolts after tightening to see if they come loose ? I have a MRP and was replacing barrels and when i got to the point where she seemed like it was gonna snap i backed off. I took a reliable torque wrench set it to the proper setting and could not get the LMT supplied wrench to "break" at ALL. On another point the XCR has a single bolt underneath the barrel and i never torqued it just set it till snug, and never had it move. just my 2 cents what ever it may be worth. Dump the POS LMT wrench and buy a real torque wrench. The LMT wrench has issues since it's cheap Chinese made. It's probably a good idea to mark it to see if it rotated, whether you use a torque wrench or not. |
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Posted: 7/24/2009 4:02:15 AM EDT
[#26]
I marked my bolts when I installed a piston barrel several monthes ago and they haven't moved. I use a "click" style torque wrench with a 20 - 200 in. lb. range.
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