11.5" pistol with vertical grip - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 11.5" pistol with vertical grip

Posted: 6/10/2019 12:15:23 AM EDT

11.5" AR Pistol with a vertical foregrip and Sba3. No folding brace.
I believe this is well outside the 26" OAL limit?

My notions on legality are referenced in the below thread.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/VFG-on-26-OAL-12-bbl-AR-pistols--letter-from-ATF-says-it-s-ok-/122-734364/

I noticed the facebook page referenced in that thread is no longer available. Thanks for any info.

Posted: 6/10/2019 6:41:18 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
11.5" AR Pistol with a vertical foregrip and Sba3. No folding brace.
I believe this is well outside the 26" OAL limit?

My notions on legality are referenced in the below thread.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/VFG-on-26-OAL-12-bbl-AR-pistols--letter-from-ATF-says-it-s-ok-/122-734364/

I noticed the facebook page referenced in that thread is no longer available. Thanks for any info.

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Are you asking because you haven't built it yet? Because if you have built it, measure it. Based on the ATF data already out there, and that Connecticut shop raid, non-folders get measured from threads (or end of MD if pinned/welded) to end of Brace fully extended. Based on my 11.3" with Aero Lower/Upper, BA Hanson, and SBA3 w/ Supplied Tube - *fully extended* is over 26", yes. Collapsed, is not (it's like 25 and 7/8). I mean, if you haven't built yet, 1" is nothing (and better in terms of 5.56) - just use a 12.x" barrel for extra margin?

Posted: 6/10/2019 7:26:43 AM EDT

[#2]

The ATF letter is pretty clear on how to measure length -

End of the barrel(No muzzle device) to the end of the SBA3 FULLY EXTENDED.

If this is over 26 inches you're GTG.

Posted: 6/10/2019 8:19:46 AM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:

Are you asking because you haven't built it yet? Because if you have built it, measure it. Based on the ATF data already out there, and that Connecticut shop raid, non-folders get measured from threads (or end of MD if pinned/welded) to end of Brace fully extended. Based on my 11.3" with Aero Lower/Upper, BA Hanson, and SBA3 w/ Supplied Tube - *fully extended* is over 26", yes. Collapsed, is not (it's like 25 and 7/8). I mean, if you haven't built yet, 1" is nothing (and better in terms of 5.56) - just use a 12.x" barrel for extra margin?

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If it has a Law folder the measurement is different?

Posted: 6/10/2019 8:58:53 AM EDT

[#4]

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Quoted:

If it has a Law folder the measurement is different?

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Yes, it is then measured at the fold.

Posted: 6/10/2019 9:13:25 AM EDT

[#5]

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Quoted:

Yes, it is then measured at the fold.

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got it

Posted: 6/10/2019 2:15:38 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
The ATF letter is pretty clear on how to measure length -

End of the barrel(No muzzle device) to the end of the SBA3 FULLY EXTENDED.

If this is over 26 inches you're GTG.

View Quote

Thank You for clarifying sir. My 11.5" from threads to "buttpad" of sba3 fully extended is 28.5"

I guess I am good.

Posted: 6/10/2019 2:18:03 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

Are you asking because you haven't built it yet? Because if you have built it, measure it. Based on the ATF data already out there, and that Connecticut shop raid, non-folders get measured from threads (or end of MD if pinned/welded) to end of Brace fully extended. Based on my 11.3" with Aero Lower/Upper, BA Hanson, and SBA3 w/ Supplied Tube - *fully extended* is over 26", yes. Collapsed, is not (it's like 25 and 7/8). I mean, if you haven't built yet, 1" is nothing (and better in terms of 5.56) - just use a 12.x" barrel for extra margin?

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I have built it - I was just confronted with some contradictory information by a gun-range owner yesterday who saw my firearm. He was adamant that you could not put a vert grip on a pistol no matter the length...

My 11.5" is 28.5" OAL from the "buttpad" of the Sba3 to the threads.

Posted: 6/10/2019 3:28:47 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

I have built it - I was just confronted with some contradictory information by a gun-range owner yesterday who saw my firearm. He was adamant that you could not put a vert grip on a pistol no matter the length...

My 11.5" is 28.5" OAL from the "buttpad" of the Sba3 to the threads.

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Well he's right, you can't have a vert grip on a pistol. If it is over 26" it becomes a firearm. Thus you can install the grip. You can not conceal it however ...

Posted: 6/10/2019 3:32:03 PM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:

Well he's right, you can't have a vert grip on a pistol. If it is over 26" it becomes a firearm. Thus you can install the grip. You can not conceal it however ...

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So even though it was built as a pistol it is now a firearm?

Posted: 6/10/2019 5:36:13 PM EDT

[#10]

FYI to anyone wondering. At least with the SBA3 extended with a 10.3-inch Hanson barrel, it exceeds 26-inches even before it reaches the end of the barrel. It is just shy of 27-inches at the crush washer. So about 27.4 inches to the end of the threads. So even with a 10.3 inch barrel you would be able to put a VFG on it as long as you have a brace.

Posted: 6/10/2019 5:40:10 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
So even though it was built as a pistol it is now a firearm?

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Well he's right, you can't have a vert grip on a pistol. If it is over 26" it becomes a firearm. Thus you can install the grip. You can not conceal it however ...

So even though it was built as a pistol it is now a firearm?

It becomes a "firearm" with the addition of a VFG. Being over 26" alone doesn't change its classification, but the addition of a VFG does (if over 26" it'd be a "firearm," if under 26" it'd be an AOW).

It's a common misconception that being over 26" changes the classification in and of itself, but that isn't the case. It's purely the addition of a VFG that changes how it is defined - the OAL just determines whether it falls under NFA purview or not.

Posted: 6/10/2019 5:52:34 PM EDT

[#12]

NVM.

Posted: 6/10/2019 6:01:28 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

It becomes a "firearm" with the addition of a VFG. Being over 26" alone doesn't change its classification, but the addition of a VFG does (if over 26" it'd be a "firearm," if under 26" it'd be an AOW).

It's a common misconception that being over 26" changes the classification in and of itself, but that isn't the case. It's purely the addition of a VFG that changes how it is defined - the OAL just determines whether it falls under NFA purview or not.

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Much appreciated.

Posted: 6/10/2019 8:03:46 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
FYI to anyone wondering. At least with the SBA3 extended with a 10.3-inch Hanson barrel, it exceeds 26-inches even before it reaches the end of the barrel. It is just shy of 27-inches at the crush washer. So about 27.4 inches to the end of the threads. So even with a 10.3 inch barrel you would be able to put a VFG on it as long as you have a brace.

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Yep, run them on all my 10.5's with the SBA3.

Posted: 6/10/2019 11:17:19 PM EDT

[#15]

I went from a 10.5 with a kak blade to an 11.5 with an sba3. I did this just to cover all my basis bc from threads to end of buffer tube is right at 26 for me which just gave me peace of mind. With the brace extended there's no question it's over 26 inches. I'm a fan of vert grips

Posted: 6/11/2019 1:45:55 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
I went from a 10.5 with a kak blade to an 11.5 with an sba3. I did this just to cover all my basis bc from threads to end of buffer tube is right at 26 for me which just gave me peace of mind. With the brace extended there's no question it's over 26 inches. I'm a fan of vert grips

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Agreed - a shortie without a vert grip is just rough. Handstops perform better on longer rifles IMO.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 11.5" pistol with vertical grip

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